Introduction/need feedback on career choice and plan

[NoPatients]

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I'm 35, married, and have 2 young kids (3 yrs and 1 month). My wife is a stay at home mom. I would prefer that she stay that way for the sake of the young kids, and the fact that she will probably not make much more than what would be needed to cover the cost of daycare.

My Myers-Briggs Type Indicator (MBTI) type is INTP (Introverted iNtuitive Thinker Perceiver). This means that I prefer to interact with only a few people or in small groups, think in terms of theory rather than details (and dislike details without a theory to fit them into), decide based on logic rather than values, and put off making decisions as long as possible to allow time for more data gathering.

I have a BA in psych which I received 12 years ago. I work as a software developer. Every few years, I get this nagging urge to break the shackles chaining me to my keyboard, escape from my cubicle (now downgraded to just a cubby 🙄 ), and free myself from servitude by earning either a PhD (in neuropsych, social psych or health psych) or an MD (neurology, psychiatry, cardiology, maybe radiology). After a recent bout of being unemployed for 2 1/2 months following a corporate merger, and then being forced to find a new position in a field I'm less than enthused with, I think I'm ready to make a break for it!

I will need to complete organic chem and some physics as prereqs, and will probably do an advanced biology class if time allows. I was premed for a year in college, and was told that if I would be happy being anything other than a physician, then I should do it. Well, I tried. I'm not happy with my current field, and would like to get away from my desk sometimes, interact with people more, and have more intellectual, financial, and task independence.

These episodes of career discontent are usually preceeded and triggered by an interaction with with a PhD psychologist or MD. I identify with them, and a nagging voice keeps telling me, "See that could've been you!" I think the latest episode occurred due to interacting with my wife's OB/GYN during the recent birth of our latest child. She is both a very impressive person and an awesome physician. I know this seems a bit silly, but I have not really interacted with someone on this level since I was premed in college, and I realized that I really miss being a part of the physician "club". Of course, with physician work hours, maybe it's futile to think I'll have time for any social interaction. 😕

A PhD in psychology would allow me to earn a little more than my current income. And, I kind of like the idea of focusing a little less on patient care and more on research. But, psychologists always seem to be more restricted in their freedom compared to MDs. I could probably conduct the same research as an MD as I could with a PhD in psychology? 😕 I'm thinking research in neuropsych or promoting cardio-healthy behaviors could be conducted just as well by an MD. It seems that most PhDs involved in medically-oriented research often end up reporting to an MD supervisor who steers their research into line with her/his own research?

I did some volunteer and paid work in patient care while in college and right after. I did enough to know that I'm not too thrilled about seeing patients full-time, but hope to offset this with teaching and research.

One big obstacle I face is how I'm going to support my family if I actually make it to med school? 😕 I'd lose my employer-subsidized family health insurance, and have to pay $1,000 a month for that! 😱 Considering that my wife working will barely cover child care and the mortgage, about the only option I see is living off of student loans. 😱 After that, maybe radiology or heart surgery will be my only specialty option if I want to pay off my loans before retirement.

Thanks for any feedback anyone can provide on these thoughts.

 

[Alexindra]

I thought that med students could get medical insurance for their families thorugh the college in a group plan? Is this not the case? If not, then I too will have tremendous difficulty providing insurance for my family.

Alex

 

[rxlynn]

Have you ever considered doing a PharmD and then working for pharmaceutical company doing research? It's only a 4 year program plus whatever prereqs you would need to complete. The detail level might be difficult for you given your Myers-Briggs description, but you would have a lot of other options that would be less people oriented. Not everybody has to be a retail or hospital pharmacist. Your software background might be an asset to an industry position also. Another thing I like about PharmD vs. PhD is that since you aren't doing a dissertation, you know going into it how long school will be. PhD's can't really say that - it's pretty much up to their advisor when they are through. I would think long and hard before committing to a PhD program - it could easily be 5 or 6 years. Obviously, you do limit somewhat your research options with the PharmD vs. a PhD.

One other comment - your children are very young now. You and your wife might feel differently about a lot of issues once they are a bit older. Mine are 4 and 7, and I spent several years denying that I could go back to school at all - even though I knew I really wanted to. It's very different now than when I had a 3 year old and an infant - they will both be in school 5 days per week this year and I'm starting pharmacy school in just a few weeks.

 

[NonTradMed]

Have you ever considered doing a PharmD and then working for pharmaceutical company doing research? It's only a 4 year program plus whatever prereqs you would need to complete. The detail level might be difficult for you given your Myers-Briggs description, but you would have a lot of other options that would be less people oriented. Not everybody has to be a retail or hospital pharmacist. Your software background might be an asset to an industry position also. Another thing I like about PharmD vs. PhD is that since you aren't doing a dissertation, you know going into it how long school will be. PhD's can't really say that - it's pretty much up to their advisor when they are through. I would think long and hard before committing to a PhD program - it could easily be 5 or 6 years. Obviously, you do limit somewhat your research options with the PharmD vs. a PhD.

One other comment - your children are very young now. You and your wife might feel differently about a lot of issues once they are a bit older. Mine are 4 and 7, and I spent several years denying that I could go back to school at all - even though I knew I really wanted to. It's very different now than when I had a 3 year old and an infant - they will both be in school 5 days per week this year and I'm starting pharmacy school in just a few weeks.

Hmm, since the OP has finished his bachelors, wouldn't it would take the same amount for him to do his MD (pre-reqs + 4 years) as it would to do get his PharmD? I guess you were referring to how long it would take him to make a 'real' salary. However, even though residency doesn't pay very well as compared to a pharmacist, you do get benefits and salary for the training so it's money will be flowing in after graduation.

To the OP, I want to mention that you do get health insurance through the med school, and it is mandatory that you have it (for obvious reasons). However, if you are worried about money....well, student loans are not cheap nowadays (fixed at 6.8%), however, you will end up paying it all back with a relatively comfortable salary once you become a licensed doctor. The biggest obstacle is getting your pre-reqs in. You will not qualify for student loans unless you are in a degree program and you will probably need to quit your job to do a post-bacc program fulltime.

Here are some of your choices:
1. Wait until the kids are in kindergarten, then your wife can work a portion of the day and support you while you go to school and get your post-bacc done.

2. Start your pre-reqs in right now but do it part time, in the evening while you work.

3. Quit your job, do a post-bacc fulltime, ace the MCAT and get into med school. Slide through with student loans.

I would suggest start with #2. If you do well, go onto option #3. If you are doing really well and see a real chance of getting into med school, I think just doing school fulltime is the best bet. After all, the sooner you get into med school, the sooner you'll be earning a 'doctor's income'.

Also, I want to mention that the average student loan for med students is something like $100k, however, doctors today aren't exactly going into the poorhouse from student loans (yet), so it's doable if you want it.

As for phd programs, that would be easier on the family finances since phd programs pay a stipend. It's hard to live on a student stipend, but my parents knew many people who raised a family on it. Plus, once your kids get into school, your wife can supplement the income with a job.

To decide which options to take, shadow a doctor and a psychologist, talk to them, research the job environment, what it takes to get into these programs etc.

Also, be aware that psychology programs are not easy to get into. I had a friend in who had a BS in psych and couldn't get into any program despite excellent grades from a good school. Of course, she made a few mistakes in her app but the fact is, it is pretty competitive.

 

[NoPatients]

rxlynn:
Thanks, but I do want to work with patients some, just not full-time. Good point about the kids--it looks like I'm at least 2 years away from med school right now.

NonTradMed:
Interesting thoughts about prereqs. I'm not familiar with any post-bacc programs. I'll look into that more. Should I maybe do one, or just squeeze organic chem I-III and physics II-III in? I'll double check, but I think I've got most of my other prereqs--biology, gen chem, calc I (grade of C... ouch).

My employer offers some tuition reimbursement, although they have a policy which requires I pay it back if I leave sooner than 6-12 months. I'm not too concerned with paying for these few courses, and there's a public university and a community college here. There's a good chance I could even use flex time to get some day classes in. But, I like your idea to go full-time so that I could get all my prereqs done in one year, and take some biology to refresh my memory and transcript. Cumulutive GPA is not a worry thankfully. (I was a megageek in college. 🙂 )

I don't think I would consider living off loans for anything but an MD.

 

[notdeadyet]

Either you're underpaid as a software developer or you might think psych PhD's make more than they do.

 

[NoPatients]

notdeadyet: I can see how that would be a logical conclusion from the information in the post, but that's not the case in my situation.