Investing as a new attending

[Reveler]

I've done several forum searches re: financial advice for new attendings, but much of the information is scattered and I'm curious what this particular forum thinks considering my current situation.

When I graduate residency, I will be 40 with 450k in federal student debt (400 principal, 50k interest for those curious), married with 2 kids < 6. I will likely be on the West coast (which is home) where COL is higher and hoping to pay off my student loans as quickly as possible while also trying to save semi-aggressively for retirement. I will likely be in MD-only PP which seems to pay ~350-400k (more/less depending on vacation) based on my discussions with a few groups and friends that work in the area where I hope to land.

Based on a rough budget, I'm hoping to pay off my fed loans in ~5 years, which means I will be putting ~8k/month toward them (rough estimate contingent on refinancing and a few other factors). I'm curious what tax-advantaged or taxable accounts I should be using when the time comes. Obviously 401k, HSA if available, and roth conversions, but what are other people doing early in their career to maximize their retirement savings and how does this change once the loans are paid off? How much does everyone put toward retirement/investing in a given year? How should I think about saving for emergency fund/house downpayment vs. maximizing retirement savings early in my career? My wife works a stable job that will provide some supplementation, and we're planning on living like a resident until the loans are paid off. Thanks in advance!

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[coffeebythelake]

This is a good book tailored for physicians.

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[<(^_^)>]

If you’re in a high tax state cash balance plans are a great way to squirrel away $$ that otherwise would be taxed at a high rate.

Emergency fund i would argue isn’t that relevant for physicians making $. You’ll have plenty of pretty liquid $ (stocks) that you could sell on short notice. It’s more applicable to people that would otherwise put a lot of their $ into things like 401k that aren’t accessible if their car breaks down or AC needs to be replaced. 10k is fine, no need for 6 months.

Houses are great if you plan on staying in the area for 5+ years. Renting for a year can be a nice way to assess where in a city you’d like to live without pressure of buying before starting work in a new practice.

Take advantage of tax sheltered funds for kids school expenses too.

Final thing I would say, don’t live like a resident if you’re in a more expensive area. The difference between 65k and 90k isn’t much relative to your salary, but the latter is far more sustainable especially if you have kids.

 

[ambiturner]

It’s good you’re thinking about this now. What is the interest rate on your loans? Assuming 6%+ I would just pay those ASAP, or consolidate with a lower interest rate. If you can get a lower interest rate on your loans it actually might make sense to pay them off slower since once you pay you can’t get that money back easily, and inflation may exceed the new interest rate.

Definitely do 401k max. HSA may not make sense for you with little kids since they use a lot of healthcare and a lower deductible plan may be better.

I agree a big emergency fund doesn’t make sense right now - interest rates are low and money is cheap. I have (knock on wood) never found myself in a situation where I needed to come up with more than $10,000 in a short time, even as a homeowner.

Depending on where you live saving for a home is more of a lifestyle expense than an investment. Definitely don’t buy anything that would be tough to sell until you know your job is working out. Good luck

 

[spicy water]

Check out whitecoatinvestor.com, and start at the "Start here" link at the top left. That websites is where I started my financial education, and it is uniquely applicable to the medical professional. It is organized in topical posts and related topics/posts linked at the bottom of each page for you to chase down the rabbit hole.

With a finite income, there is only so much to put towards living expenses, debt, saving, et cetera. It becomes a discretionary measure of how much to put towards each category (how aggressively to be saving for retirement, et cetera). There are different schools of thought about if it is best to retire debt before investing or work on both at the same time.

Which tax advantaged accounts you have at your disposal depends on your job situation. If you are a W2 employee and max out your 401k, +/- HSA and do the roth conversion, you can invest the rest of your post tax money in a brokerage account ("taxable account") that you can open at institutions like Vanguard or Fidelity.

If you are looking to find information on investing, there are other resources out there.

 

[abolt18]

#1 get own occupation disability insurance if you haven't already.

#2 get tons of term life insurance while you're still as young and healthy as you're going to be. If you die, you want enough to secure your family's future ($2-3M perhaps). Mine is laddered, 1M x 10yrs, 1M x 20yrs, and 1M x 30yrs. I pay $200/month total for those.

You can do steps 1 & 2 now, no need to wait until after training.

#3 give yourself a small pay increase (10-20%) from residency income so you feel rewarded but still have tons left over for financial goals.

#4 Build an emergency fund of 3-6 months of expenses. I know people said they've never NEEDED that much money, but having 3 months expenses set aside in a high yield savings account (like at Ally bank) can save you. If you became disabled, that disability benefit wouldn't kick in for 90 days usually, so having cash takes stress out of your life a bit. You lose or quit your job, you've got a few months to figure out life.

#5 max out any retirement space available to you every year, including that first 1/2 attending year. You won't get it that opportunity back. 401k, 403b, 457b, cash balance plan, backdoor Roth IRAs, etc. Invest simply in broad-based index funds. (I recommend you check out bogleheads wiki and books, and the JL Collins stock series)

#6 throw the rest at student loans, unless you end up employed at a 501c3, then chase PSLF. If not employed by 501c3, then refinance for the lowest rates you can get.

#7 don't worry about saving money for your kid's education when you still haven't paid for YOUR education. Pay off those student loans first.

These are just my opinion, as it's basically what I'm doing. I wouldn't recommend it if I wasn't willing to do it myself.

 

[chessknt]

#1 get own occupation disability insurance if you haven't already.

#2 get tons of term life insurance while you're still as young and healthy as you're going to be. If you die, you want enough to secure your family's future ($2-3M perhaps). Mine is laddered, 1M x 10yrs, 1M x 20yrs, and 1M x 30yrs. I pay $200/month total for those.

You can do steps 1 & 2 now, no need to wait until after training.

#3 give yourself a small pay increase (10-20%) from residency income so you feel rewarded but still have tons left over for financial goals.

#4 Build an emergency fund of 3-6 months of expenses. I know people said they've never NEEDED that much money, but having 3 months expenses set aside in a high yield savings account (like at Ally bank) can save you. If you became disabled, that disability benefit wouldn't kick in for 90 days usually, so having cash takes stress out of your life a bit. You lose or quit your job, you've got a few months to figure out life.

#5 max out any retirement space available to you every year, including that first 1/2 attending year. You won't get it that opportunity back. 401k, 403b, 457b, cash balance plan, backdoor Roth IRAs, etc. Invest simply in broad-based index funds. (I recommend you check out bogleheads wiki and books, and the JL Collins stock series)

#6 throw the rest at student loans, unless you end up employed at a 501c3, then chase PSLF. If not employed by 501c3, then refinance for the lowest rates you can get.

#7 don't worry about saving money for your kid's education when you still haven't paid for YOUR education. Pay off those student loans first.

These are just my opinion, as it's basically what I'm doing. I wouldn't recommend it if I wasn't willing to do it myself.

This 100% very solid advice. Follow it in that order don’t worry about kids right now. Learn about how to manage debt effectively. Set realistic life goals. Don’t get divorced

 

[ProwlerturnGas]

I hate debt. Doesn’t matter to me if money is cheap to borrow. Abolt 18 is a solid plan, although I might tweak it a little with my personal preference

 

[nimbus]

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[Justice4all]

At 400k, will need to defer retirement if he is planning to put 8-10k a month toward loans.
Refinance as quickly as you can.

 

[<(^_^)>]

I'm going to disagree a little with these previous posters.

#1 get own occupation disability insurance if you haven't already.

#2 get tons of term life insurance while you're still as young and healthy as you're going to be. If you die, you want enough to secure your family's future ($2-3M perhaps). Mine is laddered, 1M x 10yrs, 1M x 20yrs, and 1M x 30yrs. I pay $200/month total for those.

You can do steps 1 & 2 now, no need to wait until after training.

#3 give yourself a small pay increase (10-20%) from residency income so you feel rewarded but still have tons left over for financial goals.

#4 Build an emergency fund of 3-6 months of expenses. I know people said they've never NEEDED that much money, but having 3 months expenses set aside in a high yield savings account (like at Ally bank) can save you. If you became disabled, that disability benefit wouldn't kick in for 90 days usually, so having cash takes stress out of your life a bit. You lose or quit your job, you've got a few months to figure out life.

#5 max out any retirement space available to you every year, including that first 1/2 attending year. You won't get it that opportunity back. 401k, 403b, 457b, cash balance plan, backdoor Roth IRAs, etc. Invest simply in broad-based index funds. (I recommend you check out bogleheads wiki and books, and the JL Collins stock series)

#6 throw the rest at student loans, unless you end up employed at a 501c3, then chase PSLF. If not employed by 501c3, then refinance for the lowest rates you can get.

#7 don't worry about saving money for your kid's education when you still haven't paid for YOUR education. Pay off those student loans first.

These are just my opinion, as it's basically what I'm doing. I wouldn't recommend it if I wasn't willing to do it myself.

All reasonable points, although the point about a true emergency fund not being necessary is they will already have many months/even years worth of expenses as stocks (not in a 401k etc, just overflow).

For 529 benefits sometimes states effectively give you an immediate 5-10% return (as contribution is either deductible or there is a credit), plus all growth is untaxed. The limits are usually fairly low (4,000 or so), but 10+ years later it’s basically a net gain of ~20-30% over just shoving it into the sp500 (and maybe more than that if long term capital gains rates are raised). It’s basically free money if you were planning on helping pay for college/graduate school. It’s definitely not a colossal amount of savings, but it’s also not a colossal amount of effort to set one up. You’d still be spending >10x as much on your own loans off than to help your kids.

 

[ChiDO]

www.whitecoatinvestor.com

everything you'll ever have to know.

 

[MirrorTodd]

GME all the way baby.

 

[sevo00]

GME all the way baby.

And AMC

 

[GassYous]

GME all the way baby.

It's all about doximity now

 

[Reveler]

What are people’s thoughts on purchasing a home while still shelling out 8k/month toward student loans? Absolute no? Should the 5 years of loan repayment be used to put aside a down payment only?

 

[deleted126335]

What are people’s thoughts on purchasing a home while still shelling out 8k/month toward student loans? Absolute no? Should the 5 years of loan repayment be used to put aside a down payment only?

buy a starter home.

 

[Justice4all]

How much is total household income? Would do a starter home with similar monthly expense as rental if you will want go that route.

 

[Hoya11]

I've done several forum searches re: financial advice for new attendings, but much of the information is scattered and I'm curious what this particular forum thinks considering my current situation.

When I graduate residency, I will be 40 with 450k in federal student debt (400 principal, 50k interest for those curious), married with 2 kids < 6. I will likely be on the West coast (which is home) where COL is higher and hoping to pay off my student loans as quickly as possible while also trying to save semi-aggressively for retirement. I will likely be in MD-only PP which seems to pay ~350-400k (more/less depending on vacation) based on my discussions with a few groups and friends that work in the area where I hope to land.

Based on a rough budget, I'm hoping to pay off my fed loans in ~5 years, which means I will be putting ~8k/month toward them (rough estimate contingent on refinancing and a few other factors). I'm curious what tax-advantaged or taxable accounts I should be using when the time comes. Obviously 401k, HSA if available, and roth conversions, but what are other people doing early in their career to maximize their retirement savings and how does this change once the loans are paid off? How much does everyone put toward retirement/investing in a given year? How should I think about saving for emergency fund/house downpayment vs. maximizing retirement savings early in my career? My wife works a stable job that will provide some supplementation, and we're planning on living like a resident until the loans are paid off. Thanks in advance!

You've got a large amount of debt at 400k+.

Your in one of the highest COL areas in the country.

You are starting with 2 kids and all the costs and stresses that come with that.

"Saving for retirement aggressively" might not be in the cards right now.

You can't have it all on 350-400k coming in for salary.. which is very reasonable..

I think when many others graduate, they don't have debt THAT high and they don't currently have kids. There are often a couple of years there inbetween life phases, without kids or even with babies where that childcare cost is minimal and you can develop a big chunk of savings during first years out.

So I think you are at a bit of a financial disadvantage compared to where many of your peers may be starting.

I would think your financial picture would look like:

Buy a 500-600k house (cheap in that area)
Max 401k
Max HSA

The rest is a balance between 529 account and Student Loan Payoff.
I would try to put away 10-20k / year in 529.

I personally would not go crazy making it a priority to pay off those student loans in 3-5 years. I wouldnt care if it took me 20 years. You have a life to live and you have expenses now. I would aim to pay off the student loans steadily in 10 years if financially feasible...

Even if you make the minimum payments on the student loans, mortgage, when you retire, the house is yours and the student loans are gone, and you have saved for childrens college and your own retirement. No rush to pay them off and eat saltine crackers in misery..

 

[Nivens]

Happy to see some pushback against WCI's "Live like a resident" mantra. I thought it was just me. My wife would divorce me.

Three best things I did: 1) Marry another anesthesiologist. 2) Move from a high COL area to a low COL area. 3) Buy a house way way below what I could afford (but still so much nicer than what we lived in during training).

I'm only like a month out, but can already like how things are shaping up...

 

[anonperson]

Main thing, you can have anything you want but not everything.

I am actually pro home ownership, especially in areas that are desirable.

Benefits: stable monthly payments, interest rates are still at historic lows, no landlord BS, the interest is tax deductible up until $750k which is still a big benefit.

What is your interest rates on the loans?

If your priority is to pay off the loans, you may not be able to swing everything you want. If you take a more even approach (which I am a fan of) then I think you can manage.

With your income and 20 to 25 years of investing, you can make a very nice amount of money. You don't have to make any crazy investment deals. A simple total market index fund will get you a healthy amount with minimal stress.

Investing $50k a year into VTI will yield $5.5 million on average after 25 years.

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Not bad.

I'm married (non working spouse) with 2 kids in CA. You can live an enjoyable life while still getting your financial goals. Just do everything within reason.

 

[Justanesguy]

You are gonna be fine.

Rushing to pay off student loans immediately will only hurt you. It is true you won’t be able to deduct the tax, and their rates are probably higher. However, you lose a lot of flexibility by dropping all your spare cash into them.
Much better to end up with an extra few 100k of flexibility at the end of 5 years, at a cost of whatever the interest on those extra payments would be.

You can even buy a home, just not a crazy one.

You do have exorbitant loans, are living in a VHCOL area, have kids, and you are older than usual starting making real money. For me, I would consider working elsewhere, making more and paying less for housing. But people love certain areas, and you will be fine at the end.

 

[Reveler]

What is your interest rates on the loans?

If your priority is to pay off the loans, you may not be able to swing everything you want. If you take a more even approach (which I am a fan of) then I think you can manage.

My interest rate is currently 6.2% through the fed. I'm not sure what I'll be able to get when I refinance, but I'm assuming 2-4% based on the term. My priority is to minimize the amount I pay in interest while maximizing my retirement contributions. That obviously depends on a few factors that have yet to be worked out, which is why I'm curious what others have done and, ultimately, how their strategy has affected the long-term performance of their portfolio.

I'm married (non working spouse) with 2 kids in CA. You can live an enjoyable life while still getting your financial goals. Just do everything within reason.

This is good to hear. My wife works and will likely continue to work for the next 5-10 years until we can make some headway on our debt and start to visualize some of our goals.

 

[dabears505]

You're a man, you're 40. I think you gotta follow the advice of enjoy life in moderation. I think you gotta live with those loans for a while. Refinance. Pay them slowly. Buy a decent, not million dollar house. If you live like a resident for the next 5 years, you will be 45. No guarantee of years in life. If some sort of windfall happens, pay off loans aggressively. Who knows, grandpa Joe may even just cancel them.

 

[Reveler]

Who knows, grandpa Joe may even just cancel them.

Grandpa only seems to favor a 10k one-time forgiveness, which would not only be insignificant, but pointless if his goal is to fix a broken system. Even Warren & Schumer's 50k proposal doesn't do anything to unf*** the problem. Some have proposed canceling interest, which would solve all of the worlds problems all at once.

 

[Guillemot]

Live like a resident is a bit extreme and unnecessary if done literally…. But the point still stands: be frugal to obtain financial goals.

 

[Mman]

Happy to see some pushback against WCI's "Live like a resident" mantra. I thought it was just me. My wife would divorce me.

I didn't live like a resident as an attending, but my wife and I very slowly ramped up so it never felt like we were limiting ourselves. Started off renting an apartment for a few years while we paid off some debts and saved up a downpayment for a house. Kept driving the same cars we had and then slowly upgraded them over first 3-5 years (and paid cash for the new cars). Bought a starter house on the cheaper side and lived in it til kids and dogs started sizing us out of it while we saved up for a bigger house.


You don't need to go from being a resident in June to living in a $750K house in July just because someone will lend you the money for it. But you also don't have to live on like $3-4K of monthly expenses for 10 years.

 

[vector2]

I've done several forum searches re: financial advice for new attendings, but much of the information is scattered and I'm curious what this particular forum thinks considering my current situation.

When I graduate residency, I will be 40 with 450k in federal student debt (400 principal, 50k interest for those curious), married with 2 kids < 6. I will likely be on the West coast (which is home) where COL is higher and hoping to pay off my student loans as quickly as possible while also trying to save semi-aggressively for retirement. I will likely be in MD-only PP which seems to pay ~350-400k (more/less depending on vacation) based on my discussions with a few groups and friends that work in the area where I hope to land.

Based on a rough budget, I'm hoping to pay off my fed loans in ~5 years, which means I will be putting ~8k/month toward them (rough estimate contingent on refinancing and a few other factors). I'm curious what tax-advantaged or taxable accounts I should be using when the time comes. Obviously 401k, HSA if available, and roth conversions, but what are other people doing early in their career to maximize their retirement savings and how does this change once the loans are paid off? How much does everyone put toward retirement/investing in a given year? How should I think about saving for emergency fund/house downpayment vs. maximizing retirement savings early in my career? My wife works a stable job that will provide some supplementation, and we're planning on living like a resident until the loans are paid off. Thanks in advance!

Lotta people saying don't live like a resident which I think is fine.


But imho if you're making 350k out west with a family and paying 8k a month just toward 450k in loans then you better live like a non-ACGME fellow.

 

[abolt18]

Happy to see some pushback against WCI's "Live like a resident" mantra. I thought it was just me. My wife would divorce me.

Three best things I did: 1) Marry another anesthesiologist. 2) Move from a high COL area to a low COL area. 3) Buy a house way way below what I could afford (but still so much nicer than what we lived in during training).

I'm only like a month out, but can already like how things are shaping up...

Lol different story when you have two high incomes. You could just live off one person's income and use the other person's to save and pay off loans. For those with a non-working spouse, or a spouse with far less earning potential, a gradual, yearly increase in budget (10-20%) gives you a continual sense of increase and lack of "deprivation" while allowing you to crush some financial goals before you get in the habit of spending $15K+ each month for funsies.

 

[CHARLESTONMMM]

Isn’t it absolutely ridiculous that medical student loans aren’t tax deductible?

 

[Mman]

Isn’t it absolutely ridiculous that medical student loans aren’t tax deductible?

well I mean technically they are until you get past income limit

 

[Nivens]

Lol different story when you have two high incomes. You could just live off one person's income and use the other person's to save and pay off loans. For those with a non-working spouse, or a spouse with far less earning potential, a gradual, yearly increase in budget (10-20%) gives you a continual sense of increase and lack of "deprivation" while allowing you to crush some financial goals before you get in the habit of spending $15K+ each month for funsies.

Totally true, though I'm not sure I would have been able to contain her, had the insane housing market not intervened. There simply wasn't much to choose from. We ended up with a mortgage that is covered by the income tax savings we gained when we moved states. I feel terrible for my friends who moved to LA/SF/NY and are paying 5k/mo in rent, plus childcare, taxes, etc. Doesn't have to be that way.

 

[deleted875186]

Interesting advice above.

I will add, don’t limit yourself, get a moonlighting gig, don’t know how strenuous your full time schedule is, but a community hosptial weekend coverage is pretty easy on you, can get you 50-100k extra a year if you do a couple weekend days extra per month moonlighting. Obviously don’t burn yourself out, but doing this for the first couple years would be pretty easy to swing.

 

[deleted875186]

What are people’s thoughts on purchasing a home while still shelling out 8k/month toward student loans? Absolute no? Should the 5 years of loan repayment be used to put aside a down payment only?

I personally would say starter home. Only reasonable reason to rent is if rent is much cheaper than monthly mortgage payment, or your unsure of the job or area. Home prices will continue to rise, housing shortage is too big.

 

[repititionition]

Interesting advice above.

I will add, don’t limit yourself, get a moonlighting gig, don’t know how strenuous your full time schedule is, but a community hosptial weekend coverage is pretty easy on you, can get you 50-100k extra a year if you do a couple weekend days extra per month moonlighting. Obviously don’t burn yourself out, but doing this for the first couple years would be pretty easy to swing.

why not just pick up additional call with your primary group?

only advantage I can think is ability to hide pretax money through a new corporation you make for moonlighting money.

downside is malpractice insurance, etc

 

[deleted875186]

why not just pick up additional call with your primary group?

only advantage I can think is ability to hide pretax money through a new corporation you make for moonlighting money.

downside is malpractice insurance, etc

Perhaps in other parts of the country it is different, where I am there is a demand and you can make more working at an understaffed smaller hosptial. Smaller hosptial also tends to be more chill. They typically always cover your malpractice for you.

but yes, OP should notnecessarily count on extra earned income, but could easily increase his salary a bit with a few more hours.

 

[ERRES2288]

Really only 350-400k for pp? If that’s the case with 450k in student loans dude just do academics and go for pslf with easier life

 

[deleted875186]

Really only 350-400k for pp? If that’s the case with 450k in student loans dude just do academics and go for pslf with easier life

PSLF is not a good plan, too uncertain, plus with high income you’ll still end up paying a lot back before forgiven, I’d rather refinance to a low interest rate.

 

[GassYous]

Really only 350-400k for pp? If that’s the case with 450k in student loans dude just do academics and go for pslf with easier life

 

[ERRES2288]

PSLF is not a good plan, too uncertain, plus with high income you’ll still end up paying a lot back before forgiven, I’d rather refinance to a low interest rate.

??? this is terrible advice

 

[ERRES2288]

Someone making 375k/yr family of 4 would have discretionary income about 280k. This assumes 50k tax ded retirement account and poverty line of 100% for family of 4. You pay 10% of discretionary income per year.

You need 6 years of these payments after residency (assuming no fellowship) to have loans forgiven.

simple math 28k/yr x 5yrs = 140k paid. 1 year will be at resident income so virtually nothing and that’s why it’s not 6 years. 450-140k = 340k. 340k forgiven, and this is after tax money. And this doesn’t include interest on loan so would actually be more forgiven. Again after tax money. This is amazing deal.

 

[Mman]

Someone making 375k/yr family of 4 would have discretionary income about 280k. This assumes 50k tax ded retirement account and poverty line of 100% for family of 4. You pay 10% of discretionary income per year.

You need 6 years of these payments after residency (assuming no fellowship) to have loans forgiven.

simple math 28k/yr x 5yrs = 140k paid. 1 year will be at resident income so virtually nothing and that’s why it’s not 6 years. 450-140k = 340k. 340k forgiven, and this is after tax money. And this doesn’t include interest on loan so would actually be more forgiven. Again after tax money. This is amazing deal.

Only direct federal loans are eligible for PSLF forgiveness. Considering those are capped, a likely significant portion of that $450K is not eligible for forgiveness under the program.

 

[DrZzZz]

Someone making 375k/yr family of 4 would have discretionary income about 280k. This assumes 50k tax ded retirement account and poverty line of 100% for family of 4. You pay 10% of discretionary income per year.

You need 6 years of these payments after residency (assuming no fellowship) to have loans forgiven.

simple math 28k/yr x 5yrs = 140k paid. 1 year will be at resident income so virtually nothing and that’s why it’s not 6 years. 450-140k = 340k. 340k forgiven, and this is after tax money. And this doesn’t include interest on loan so would actually be more forgiven. Again after tax money. This is amazing deal.

How many people do you know that have successfully qualified for forgiveness? I have quite a few friends making far less money than I do in other fields who got denied despite seemingly meeting all the requirements. Getting the govt to approve it has been near impossible for everyone I know.

 

[ERRES2288]

How many people do you know that have successfully qualified for forgiveness? I have quite a few friends making far less money than I do in other fields who got denied despite seemingly meeting all the requirements. Getting the govt to approve it has been near impossible for everyone I know.

My response would be they likely didn’t meet all the requirements or have qualifying loans despite thinking they did. These are clearly stated. Almost everyone that has gotten denied(which is like >95%) don’t have loans that qualify.

In response to mman. There is confusion about direct loans. You can get direct loans all the way up to cost of attendance. This would include unsubsidized and grad plus loans but all these are “direct” loans. Some people think grad plus are not direct which is incorrect.

This individual should look very closely at their loans to make sure they qualify. I figured most people would do this before going for PSLF but doesn’t seem to be the case.

 

[ERRES2288]

A $310,284.24 PSLF Success Story | Ben White

People often ask me if I know anybody who has successfully received public service loan forgiveness (PSLF). For the past couple of years, my answer has been that I've seen multiple verified examples of PSLF but didn't know anyone personally (in real life). That's mostly because I graduated in...

www.benwhite.com

PSLF is obviously not for everyone and certainly the government could change things anytime but with 450k in student loans and only gonna make 375k in pp it’s worth it in my opinion to explore other opportunities and worth the risk to go for it.

 

[Guillemot]

PSLF is unfortunate in the way it works IMO. So much hoops to jump through, qualifying not based on need. Would have been much more fair and much more reliable just have interest capped at rate of inflation for everyone since inception of loans and income based monthly payments for everyone once repayment entered. It would achieve the same goal of making student loans not be oppressive.

 

[GassYous]

A $310,284.24 PSLF Success Story | Ben White

People often ask me if I know anybody who has successfully received public service loan forgiveness (PSLF). For the past couple of years, my answer has been that I've seen multiple verified examples of PSLF but didn't know anyone personally (in real life). That's mostly because I graduated in...

www.benwhite.com

PSLF is obviously not for everyone and certainly the government could change things anytime but with 450k in student loans and only gonna make 375k in pp it’s worth it in my opinion to explore other opportunities and worth the risk to go for it.

I don't understand why you keep saying "only 375". How much are you making?

 

[deleted875186]

??? this is terrible advice

If your financial plan depends on a government program that has been on the chopping block for a while, has denied a ridiculously high percent of applicants, then I don’t know what to say. If you are taking a calculated risk on PSLF with a plan B in place then fine.

Applying for PSLF and thinking “I have all my loans in order, all my paperwork in place, nothing will go wrong like those other 95% of denied applicants”, then you r just ignorant.

 

[abolt18]

If your financial plan depends on a government program that has been on the chopping block for a while, has denied a ridiculously high percent of applicants, then I don’t know what to say. If you are taking a calculated risk on PSLF with a plan B in place then fine.

Applying for PSLF and thinking “I have all my loans in order, all my paperwork in place, nothing will go wrong like those other 95% of denied applicants”, then you r just ignorant.

See the section called "Are People Really Getting PSLF?"

Public Service Loan Forgiveness (PSLF) for Doctors | White Coat Investor

If you're working for a(501(c3), PSLF is the federal debt forgiveness program most physicians should be looking at, offering tax-free forgiveness in under 10 years if you qualify.

www.whitecoatinvestor.com

 

[<(^_^)>]

PSLF isn’t necessary for OP, and is a good example of why debt forgiveness is silly for those commanding high salaries.

OP can refinance to likely ~2%, easily pay off his loans within 3 years, and do so while living better than 90% of Americans.

450k california income with OP + spouse (would be way better in say Washington). 50k 401k/various savings plans. 270k post taxes. Live off 100k post taxes and save the other 170k (+50k 401k). You’ll be debt free in 3 years, you’ll have have 2M+ saved in 7 more years, and 10 years after that you’ll be able to retire at 60 with 7M+ in the bank. This is not someone that needs a federal bailout for debt any way you slice it.

Final point, it’s easy to forget “living off of X” is not “living like someone earning X”. Living off 100k post tax for example is actually pretty similar to living like someone earning 200k. In california that 200k is 132-146 (single vs married) post taxes, and after retirement savings probably about 100k is left for spending, less if they’re being more responsible. I make this error often too, but 100k post tax is really a decent amount of money to purely spend.

Truly living like a resident would mean living off of ~40k post tax.