harambe4ever

2+ Year Member
Feb 14, 2017
85
58
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Medical Student
1. Do I need separate personal statement's for both DR and IR?
2. What is the science to applying to DR programs? Apply DR to every IR program? Only some?
3. Does it hurt me if I apply to prelim medicine vs prelim surgery vs both at an institution?
4. Is a prelim surgery program really better than a TY with surgical electives?

Thanks in advance.
 
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DJNYY

5+ Year Member
Jul 23, 2013
124
67
California
1) I had a very slightly different personal statement. I just changed a few words to emphasize IR more specifically in the IR statement, tried to just be a little more broad and all encompassing in the DR one.
2) Apply to DR at ALL the places you apply IR. Nothing worse then getting asked the question... "so, why didn't you apply to our DR program?". Doesn't mean you have to rank the DR program, but DR people have input on your application and you interview with them even as an IR applicant so its best to be as diplomatic as possible. Yes, it makes applying twice as expensive, but you're gonna need DR programs as backup anyway when you make your rank list. If a place has IR and DR w/ ESIR, that's a very good thing for you as an applicant
3) At this time, most PDs are not very militant about prelim surgery. So, for the most part no, but there are a handful of PDs out there who are of the "prelim surgery or bust" mindset. You'll notice the categorical IR residencies all mandate prelim surgery. This is just how the future of IR training is. Best fall in line now
4) Totally program dependent and a matter of personal opinion. IMO, there is no growth without challenge and going through periods of feeling like you have more in front of you than you can handle (both in the OR and on the floor) is how you go from being a med student to doctor. Not to say that a TY won't have moments like this, but you're also gonna have meaningless "research blocks" and outpatient rotations on random things that have no real relevance to your overall career and contribute very minimally to your growth as an IR. It takes more than just 1 or 2 surgery rotations to become competent as an intern on service, it takes usually 3-6 months from what I've been told. You won't get that kind of time to grow as a TY. Also, you may not be treated as an equal on the surgery service...
 
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harambe4ever

2+ Year Member
Feb 14, 2017
85
58
Status
Medical Student
1) I had a very slightly different personal statement. I just changed a few words to emphasize IR more specifically in the IR statement, tried to just be a little more broad and all encompassing in the DR one.
2) Apply to DR at ALL the places you apply IR. Nothing worse then getting asked the question... "so, why didn't you apply to our DR program?". Doesn't mean you have to rank the DR program, but DR people have input on your application and you interview with them even as an IR applicant so its best to be as diplomatic as possible. Yes, it makes applying twice as expensive, but you're gonna need DR programs as backup anyway when you make your rank list. If a place has IR and DR w/ ESIR, that's a very good thing for you as an applicant
3) At this time, most PDs are not very militant about prelim surgery. So, for the most part no, but there are a handful of PDs out there who are of the "prelim surgery or bust" mindset. You'll notice the categorical IR residencies all mandate prelim surgery. This is just how the future of IR training is. Best fall in line now
4) Totally program dependent and a matter of personal opinion. IMO, there is no growth without challenge and going through periods of feeling like you have more in front of you than you can handle (both in the OR and on the floor) is how you go from being a med student to doctor. Not to say that a TY won't have moments like this, but you're also gonna have meaningless "research blocks" and outpatient rotations on random things that have no real relevance to your overall career and contribute very minimally to your growth as an IR. It takes more than just 1 or 2 surgery rotations to become competent as an intern on service, it takes usually 3-6 months from what I've been told. You won't get that kind of time to grow as a TY. Also, you may not be treated as an equal on the surgery service...
Hey thanks a bunch! Good to know.

I think TY's have changed a lot. Most have this format:
4 months medicine
1 month MICU
1 month ED
1 month ambulatory
4 months electives
1 month vacation

Or something close to that. So spending those 4 months in surgery are not sufficient? Honestly curious here. Thanks.
 
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DJNYY

5+ Year Member
Jul 23, 2013
124
67
California
I mean a resident who's completed 12 months of surgery will be more capable than someone who's completed 4. Surgery intern year lets you bounce around between vascular, hepatobiliary/ surgical oncology, SICU, ACS, thoracic, colorectal, I mean a bunch of different services that are closely intertwined with IR. You will get more out of 12 months than 4, but I guess you have to ask yourself, what more do you gain from all that gen med, ambulatory and ED time that is more valuable than additional surgery time?
 
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harambe4ever

2+ Year Member
Feb 14, 2017
85
58
Status
Medical Student
I mean a resident who's completed 12 months of surgery will be more capable than someone who's completed 4. Surgery intern year lets you bounce around between vascular, hepatobiliary/ surgical oncology, SICU, ACS, thoracic, colorectal, I mean a bunch of different services that are closely intertwined with IR. You will get more out of 12 months than 4, but I guess you have to ask yourself, what more do you gain from all that gen med, ambulatory and ED time that is more valuable than additional surgery time?
Sure, that makes sense. What I would get out of those gen med/ED months would be skills and appreciation for residents in those specialties that surgery interns would not get considering a large amount of an IR's career will be DR (or at least in training). In my mind it is the best of both worlds - significant surgery and medicine time. I wouldn't be "as good" as a straight surgery intern or a straight medicine intern at the end of the year but it would provide a diverse and broad set of skills that a radiologist of all people should have. A surgery intern would be better at handling surgical issues, but they wouldn't have the same experience handing medical conditions that a medicine intern would have. I am asking all this because I truly don't know, so thanks for humoring me.
 
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