Is a better fit worth 100k?

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Which school would you go to?

  • University of Iowa (Better fit)

    Votes: 12 16.4%

  • University of Minnesota (100k less)

    Votes: 61 83.6%
  • Total voters
    73
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I was accepted to both University of Minnesota and University of Iowa. I prefer Iowa because from my understanding they have a better clinical program and overall it just seemed like a better fit. That said, I get in-state in Minnesota since I'm from South Dakota, so going there would be much cheaper.

I've found some dentists through a friend that work in both states who I mean to call but I would really like to hear your input.

I am strongly considering ortho, so that is a consideration as well. I hear Iowa's ortho program is top-notch.
 
Only you can decide this for yourself. It's your 4 years and you're the one who is going to be repaying back the loans. That being said, I lean to the opinion of money can be paid back, but you never get back time. Comes down to how much you would hate going to Minnesota.
 
wengerin said:
Only you can decide this for yourself. It's your 4 years and you're the one who is going to be repaying back the loans. That being said, I lean to the opinion of money can be paid back, but you never get back time. Comes down to how much you would hate going to Minnesota.
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I certainly wouldn't hate going to Minnesota, I love the area. I was accepted a few other places and these two are my top two.
 
No school is worth 100k more than another. You learn how to be a safe beginner in school, that's it. Some are better beginners than others depending on person and experience but when you get out in the real world it quickly evens out.

(Uop grad 2016)
 
I think I may interviewed with you OP haha (on second thought nope, I think the person I talked to was from North Dakota). I'm not sure how much I like the layout of the school, I don't like the idea of learning all the floors and taking the elevator and everything. But hey, Minnesota is a nice place to live and you could basically buy a Lamborghini with $100k, so there's that lol. I don't know if I'll be going there because of the OOS cost, but man, Minnesota would be nice.
 
You sure you did the math correctly? No OOS scholarship from Iowa for you? I thought Minnesota was having crazy tuition hikes due to budget issues.
 
This is almost like the Sprint commercials. Would you want to pay 100k for X% "better" education.

If you want call the schools and see what they have to offer again (facilities and curriculum). They would happily give you info and you could take another tour if that makes you more comfy and you are able to.

Edit: 100k is a lot of money, but sometimes it can be a trivial amount of money when it comes to determining a profession.
Maybe consider what salary projections are in the places you want to practice when you graduate. This may also serve as a tool to help assess how you go about your decision. Gives a more Objective reason than a subjective one.
 
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$100,000 extra isn't a lot in the grand scheme of things.

If you gave Minnesota a 6 and Iowa a 7, then you may stick around in-state.

But if you gave Iowa a 9 and Minnesota a 4, then go to Iowa. Sure, the schools may teach the same fundamentals. But the personal growth you will experience and non-tangibles you will gain by going somewhere that just feels right for you is invaluable.
 
First off, don't listen to the guy who said $100,000 extra isn't a lot.

Second, I assure you that there is a negligible difference between State school 1 and state school 2. Same accreditation standards, demographics, and goals.

Third, you and no one else on this website knows if Iowa has a better clinical program because no one has gone to both Iowa and Minnesota. And you don't know if Iowa is a "better fit" because you don't known until you enroll.
 
Muggsy Bogues said:
First off, don't listen to the guy who said $100,000 extra isn't a lot.

Second, I assure you that there is a negligible difference between State school 1 and state school 2. Same accreditation standards, demographics, and goals.

Third, you and no one else on this website knows if Iowa has a better clinical program because no one has gone to both Iowa and Minnesota. And you don't know if Iowa is a "better fit" because you don't known until you enroll.
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I majored in finance and accounting and worked for four years at a white-shoe IB. You would be amazed at the options you have as far as paying and consolidating your debt. The problem is, is that most people on these forums have absolutely no background in anything finance related. They hear terrible things about debt on here from people who also have no background in finance, and then perpetuate these notions. You should post on something like the WSO forums and get their opinions on it.

I can say confidently that with the salaries that dentists bring in, in the grand scheme of things, $100,000 is not a lot extra. I'm really interested in how you arrive to your conclusion that it should be his deciding factor.

Lastly, to tell someone that they don't know what is a better fit for themselves until they enroll at the school is asinine.
 
I majored in science like 10 years ago, worked zero hours in investment banking, and have incurred a significant amount of professional school debt and I feel like that qualifies me to say that it is a poor financial decision to spend $100,000 extra on something based intangible measures like "seemed like a better fit".

But you're right. There are ways to pay the debt load back relatively unscathed.
 
D4 at Iowa. I do think Iowa is better than Minnesota (obviously biased though) but not worth $100k. Yes I know some Minnesota D4s. I have no idea what that finance guy is talking about. Probably hasn't done a day of dentistry in his life, producing $100k of dentistry after taxes is a lot of work. Yeah you can refinance but you're still gonna have to pay back the principle + interest. Yes you can lower the interest, but not the principle. At the end of the day both are good schools, it's not like we are talking about Touro. So save the $100k and enjoy more options after school.
 
You stated these are your top two choices. One is 100k less than the other...I think the choice is obvious for many here.

But in the end, it's entirely up to you. Whether or not you think you really would be a better fit at Iowa, and if you're okay with possibly a few more years of paying off that debt.

I don't know much about finances, but I don't see how "100k isn't much in the grand scheme of things." Couldn't that add like 1, 2, 3, or even 5 years (or more when you consider all of your loans) of paying back your debt? For me, that can push you back from putting some money down in order to buy a house, car, private practice, or even starting a family.
 
One picture is for 300k, another is for 400k. Both loans at 6.8% interest(higher than what it is now). Each box is a separate loan. First loan is for 48 months, second loan is for 36 months, ect. It shows the interest collected during the course of each loan from start date, to end of school.

The 10 year pictures are if you some how managed to pay 3k a month for 10 years.

For a 300k school, you end up paying down to the amount of $186,633 after 10 years, with 3k a month.

For a 400k school, you end up paying down to the amount of $418,078 after 10 years, with 3k a month.

So numbers are not exact, there a bit rough and I can't account for the changing interest rate for each year when you take our your loan. And I can't account for the consolidation options that are out there. So the numbers are worse than they really are. Theres no way you're going to pay 6.8% interest until you finish your loan. There are options for you when you do graduate, but your loans will generate interest while you're in school at those fixed rates.

What is important though is that once graduate, you will walk out with $354,435 from a 300k school and 472,579 from a 400k school. Around a $118,144 difference at the end of 4 years, and even a bigger difference once you pay off your loans. Also a longer pay down period. This is meant just to give you a general idea.
 

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Muggsy Bogues said:
I majored in science like 10 years ago, worked zero hours in investment banking, and have incurred a significant amount of professional school debt and I feel like that qualifies me to say that it is a poor financial decision to spend $100,000 extra on something based intangible measures like "seemed like a better fit".

But you're right. There are ways to pay the debt load back relatively unscathed.
Click to expand...

I didn't mean to suggest that people who don't have a finance background aren't qualified to talk about finances. Anecdotally, the brightest people I've met study science. I also admit that I don't know what it's like to have that type of debt following me around, weighing on my life decisions many years after graduation. I can only speak about debt from the other side - I've studied it, worked with it, leveraged it, etc. But, I have never dealt with it personally, so I certainly lack that viewpoint from the other side.

I will say that different people have different ideas and feelings about debt - to many, it dominates their every decision regarding schools. There are sometimes more considerations that that.
 
100,000...
Faux said:
One picture is for 300k, another is for 400k. Both loans at 6.8% interest(higher than what it is now). Each box is a separate loan. First loan is for 48 months, second loan is for 36 months, ect. It shows the interest collected during the course of each loan from start date, to end of school.

The 10 year pictures are if you some how managed to pay 3k a month for 10 years.

For a 300k school, you end up paying down to the amount of $186,633 after 10 years, with 3k a month.

For a 400k school, you end up paying down to the amount of $418,078 after 10 years, with 3k a month.

So numbers are not exact, there a bit rough and I can't account for the changing interest rate for each year when you take our your loan. And I can't account for the consolidation options that are out there. So the numbers are worse than they really are. Theres no way you're going to pay 6.8% interest until you finish your loan. There are options for you when you do graduate, but your loans will generate interest while you're in school at those fixed rates.

What is important though is that once graduate, you will walk out with $354,435 from a 300k school and 472,579 from a 400k school. Around a $118,144 difference at the end of 4 years, and even a bigger difference once you pay off your loans. Also a longer pay down period. This is meant just to give you a general idea.
Click to expand...

Preach man preach. I'm losing saliva trying to talk sense into some people.
 
Likkriue said:
100,000...


Preach man preach. I'm losing saliva trying to talk sense into some people.
Click to expand...


It's important to note that these photos assume you're paying the same amount your first month out as you are ten years later.

If you have been in practice for ten years and are only paying $3,000 a month, then somewhere along the way, you done goofed.

In addition, the photos assume a higher interest rate than there actually is now and that you would never take any financial actions to ameliorate that rate.

Sure, there is no getting around that interest accrual in school. But those photos don't necessarily depict realistic payback scenarios.
 
Sleep on it a week or two OP.

Some people are scared of debt, and others aren't at all. It's good to be somewhere in between. Good luck with your decision, either way you decide I think you will be satisfied.
 
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Panis et Circenses said:
I think I may interviewed with you OP haha (on second thought nope, I think the person I talked to was from North Dakota). I'm not sure how much I like the layout of the school, I don't like the idea of learning all the floors and taking the elevator and everything. But hey, Minnesota is a nice place to live and you could basically buy a Lamborghini with $100k, so there's that lol. I don't know if I'll be going there because of the OOS cost, but man, Minnesota would be nice.
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I go to school in ND so that was me I'm sure. Where do you think you'll be going?
 
SnozzBerry said:
You sure you did the math correctly? No OOS scholarship from Iowa for you? I thought Minnesota was having crazy tuition hikes due to budget issues.
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The info I received from them said about 20k per semester all the way through. Iowa is 30k per semester and up.
 
Muggsy Bogues said:
First off, don't listen to the guy who said $100,000 extra isn't a lot.

Second, I assure you that there is a negligible difference between State school 1 and state school 2. Same accreditation standards, demographics, and goals.

Third, you and no one else on this website knows if Iowa has a better clinical program because no one has gone to both Iowa and Minnesota. And you don't know if Iowa is a "better fit" because you don't known until you enroll.
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I'm basing that off of what I heard from a distant relative who administers boards. He gave me a list of Midwest schools that have really rock-solid clinical programs.
 
Faux said:
One picture is for 300k, another is for 400k. Both loans at 6.8% interest(higher than what it is now). Each box is a separate loan. First loan is for 48 months, second loan is for 36 months, ect. It shows the interest collected during the course of each loan from start date, to end of school.

The 10 year pictures are if you some how managed to pay 3k a month for 10 years.

For a 300k school, you end up paying down to the amount of $186,633 after 10 years, with 3k a month.

For a 400k school, you end up paying down to the amount of $418,078 after 10 years, with 3k a month.

So numbers are not exact, there a bit rough and I can't account for the changing interest rate for each year when you take our your loan. And I can't account for the consolidation options that are out there. So the numbers are worse than they really are. Theres no way you're going to pay 6.8% interest until you finish your loan. There are options for you when you do graduate, but your loans will generate interest while you're in school at those fixed rates.

What is important though is that once graduate, you will walk out with $354,435 from a 300k school and 472,579 from a 400k school. Around a $118,144 difference at the end of 4 years, and even a bigger difference once you pay off your loans. Also a longer pay down period. This is meant just to give you a general idea.
Click to expand...
I think I will be opting for a very aggressive repayment plan. Thank you for the real numbers. I'm hoping I can cut costs down a bit on living expenses but there's not much I can do for tuition.
 
ptiskyq127 said:
I majored in finance and accounting and worked for four years at a white-shoe IB. You would be amazed at the options you have as far as paying and consolidating your debt. The problem is, is that most people on these forums have absolutely no background in anything finance related. They hear terrible things about debt on here from people who also have no background in finance, and then perpetuate these notions. You should post on something like the WSO forums and get their opinions on it.

I can say confidently that with the salaries that dentists bring in, in the grand scheme of things, $100,000 is not a lot extra. I'm really interested in how you arrive to your conclusion that it should be his deciding factor.

Lastly, to tell someone that they don't know what is a better fit for themselves until they enroll at the school is asinine.
Click to expand...

I completed the finance degree requirements but didn't get a BS in it since too many credits overlapped. A finance degree is not equal to a personal finance degree, so I don't think throwing that in the necessarily qualifies your answer more than others. No offense meant, just trying to bring the thread back down to reality. You are definitely right that there are ways to avoid the heavy burden of loans by minimizing interest paid. Even still, 100k in principal will not only accrue substantially more interest in a short period of time (back-of-the-envelope, simple interest, estimations of 6k a year, or maybe 2 weeks salary for the average dentist), but is still a lot of money itself (2/3 year of salary going off those same sloppy estimates). Money that could be used on a down payment on a house, retirement investments, things that provide substantially more economic value than 100k alone.

That being said, all my options for school are super expensive. I'm bummed because I don't even have much of a choice (my 3 options all made the top 10 most expensive school list here), and I didn't get into "less competitive" schools that are most cost-friendly. I'd take an acceptance to the alternatives I don't have, but thought I was for sure going to be accepted to save money in a heartbeat. Even a more substantial chunk of money than the OP 🙁. Anyways, its not that you're points are not relevant, but I also don't think it's worth brushing off in such a nonchalant manner. I think OP should weigh the options carefully, know that either way he will be financially comfortable eventually (especially using the methods you mentioned), and decide based on both fiscal and qualitative aspects.
 
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DentalAptitude said:
I completed the finance degree requirements but didn't get a BS in it since too many credits overlapped. A finance degree is not equal to a personal finance degree, so I don't think throwing that in the necessarily qualifies your answer more than others. No offense meant, just trying to bring the thread back down to reality. You are definitely right that there are ways to avoid the heavy burden of loans by minimizing interest paid. Even still, 100k in principal will not only accrue substantially more interest in a short period of time (back-of-the-envelope, simple interest, estimations of 6k a year, or maybe 2 weeks salary for the average dentist), but is still a lot of money itself (2/3 year of salary going off those same sloppy estimates). I'd say it is a lot more money, money that could be used on a down payment on a house, retirement investments, etc.

That being said, all my options for school are super expensive. I'm bummed because I don't even have much of a choice (my 3 options all made the top 10 most expensive school list here), and I didn't get into "less competitive" schools that are most cost-friendly. I'd take an acceptance to the alternatives I don't have, but thought I was for sure going to be accepted to save money in a heartbeat. Even a more substantial chunk of money than the OP 🙁. Anyways, its not that you're points are not relevant, but I also don't think it's worth brushing off in such a nonchalant manner.
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I agree with you 100%. It's a lot of money, and there's nothing you can do while you're in school to lessen that. My only point was that whether you like a school or not is definitely worth considering when you decide. Depending on the cost and how strongly you feel one way or the other, you may choose the more expensive school, and that's not always a bad thing. I think that may be an unpopular viewpoint but it's one I really think deserves considering.
 
I would also like to mention you have no idea how much you like a school or not until you are actually a student and have been attending for a few months.

Interviews are not representative of what the school truely is like. Other students are not representative of how you personally fit it. There will always be a group of students who dislike a school and a group that absolutely loves it. Who knows which one is more applicable to you until you actually attend?

Gambling 100k on "your gut feeling" is a big big risk. Who knows, the cheaper school might end up being awesome whilst the school you thought you like turns out to be terrible.
 
Likkriue said:
I would also like to mention you have no idea how much you like a school or not until you are actually a student and have been attending for a few months.

Interviews are not representative of what the school truely is like. Other students are not representative of how you personally fit it. There will always be a group of students who dislike a school and a group that absolutely loves it. Who knows which one is more applicable to you until you actually attend?

Gambling 100k on "your gut feeling" is a big big risk. Who knows, the cheaper school might end up being awesome whilst the school you thought you like turns out to be terrible.
Click to expand...

That and time flies by extremely fast. It feel like yesterday I just moved into my apartment, and now I'm finishing my first semester of my second year.

Do I like my school? Of course, but I'm too busy to even think about that. Theres always something to do. You're here to work, with some occasional fun. At the end of the day, we all sit down for the same exam.
 
Is it considered "unethical" to forgo an acceptance to try again at the next cycle? I currently have an acceptance at an expensive private school which I am really grateful for but I am a bit hesitant about the cost. I have also had interviews at public schools that allow me to switch residency after a year, and I'd end up saving 100-150k by attending such a school. I know it's not all about the money, but there's no denying that an extra 150k in debt would change my life and how I would run my own practice. Assuming I don't get any more acceptances this cycle, is it considered taboo to turn down the acceptance I have and try my luck again next cycle? Considering I have gotten several interviews, I know I have the stats to be able to do so but it might just take a bit of luck.
 
It is frowned upon to decline an acceptance just to apply again next year. At least from what I've heard and read here on SDN.
 
$100,000 is a lot of money and if you take out debt for it then it's even more because of compounding. I lean toward U of MN, but I don't know how much of a difference it makes for you. I just don't think a program is worth $100,000. Like I said, I'm not in your shoes, but I would take MN. However, only you can make this decision.
 
DC206R said:
It is frowned upon to decline an acceptance just to apply again next year. At least from what I've heard and read here on SDN.
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I'm just curious why, because you don't have true exposure to the program until you apply and go to the interview. Especially if you only get into one school and you don't like it.
 
MaizeGoBlue said:
I'm just curious why, because you don't have true exposure to the program until you apply and go to the interview. Especially if you only get into one school and you don't like it.
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That I don't know why. I'm curious as well.
 
What about going to Maryland (in-state) vs. Columbia/Penn. The latter would be 100k+ more expensive
 
dentalgirl6500 said:
What about going to Maryland (in-state) vs. Columbia/Penn. The latter would be 100k+ more expensive
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Maryland is a great program. I would take Maryland personally. The other two programs are also great but is it worth 100k more? To some people yes. To me no.
 
ptiskyq127 said:
I majored in finance and accounting and worked for four years at a white-shoe IB. You would be amazed at the options you have as far as paying and consolidating your debt. The problem is, is that most people on these forums have absolutely no background in anything finance related. They hear terrible things about debt on here from people who also have no background in finance, and then perpetuate these notions. You should post on something like the WSO forums and get their opinions on it.

I can say confidently that with the salaries that dentists bring in, in the grand scheme of things, $100,000 is not a lot extra. I'm really interested in how you arrive to your conclusion that it should be his deciding factor.

Lastly, to tell someone that they don't know what is a better fit for themselves until they enroll at the school is asinine.
Click to expand...
So what magic hocus pocus are going to use to make that 100k debt disappear oh great accounting wizard?

In the "grand scheme of things" 100k is even more than what it's worth now. That's 100k you wouldn't put into an investment account because you're busy paying off the debt. Tell me financial wizard, what's that worth in 25 years?

And way to blow smoke with your fancy degree and say there's a lot of options.
I am going to list them right now and tell me what I am missing.

1. Standard repayment plan
2. Extended repayment plan.
3. Graduated extended repayment plan
4. IBR
5. Pay as you earn
6. Revised pay as you earn
6. Consolidate your loans with feds
7. PSLF
8. Refinance your loans with so-fi/ drb etc.
9. Enroll in LRP

Pick your poison. What "amazing" options! Besides PSLF (which Congress is trying to get rid of), nothing is going to get you out if paying that debt . Even IBR/PAYE will not get you out completely because of the huge tax bomb AND you lose the ability to refinance into private loans. You're not getting off the hook for an extra 100k that easily.

But sure you get a 2500 deduction for student loan. Good luck paying off 100000 with that
 
MaizeGoBlue said:
I'm just curious why, because you don't have true exposure to the program until you apply and go to the interview. Especially if you only get into one school and you don't like it.
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The thing is that you should have done research on the school and their programs prior to applying. They have all sort of information online, mission and goals and stuff. I think it's enough for you to make a decision whether you would see yourself going there or not.

When you decline an acceptance and reapply, other schools might see it and think "oh well he/she declined it the last time, what if he/she decline again" and may feel like they're wasting their time on you.

However, this is just my take.
 
I would say so. Do what you are passionate about and go where you will succeed!
 
krentist123 said:
Wow! I guess I am in a similar predicament. I see you have to apply for reciprocity, do you know if this is easily granted?
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Couldn't tell ya. I basically just took that email at face-value.
 
With half of that 100k you can easily make it a better fit one way or the other and still come out 50k ahead.
 
cacazor said:
But sure you get a 2500 deduction for student loan. Good luck paying off 100000 with that
Click to expand...

I think at the incomes we hope to make you get phased out of eligibility for the deduction as well.
I hope he comes back and answers you, making a 100k debt disappear is only second to making 100k appear.
 
Hey OP what's your final decision? Have you sent your deposit yet?
 
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