Is a Pre-application visit advisable?

[EdLongshanks]

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I will probably be applying to med school to start in 2011.

The closest state school to me is Osteopathic. I just called to get a little information about it. Their public relations lady told me that their average GPA is 3.6 and their average MCAT is 27 - although I have not yet taken the MCAT I don't think that beating this score will be difficult - if it is I will re-evaluate at that time.

This school - although it's stats show that it's clearly not the most exclusive med-school in the US - is extremely convenient to me for life-style purposes. Even if I get an opportunity to attend a more prestigious school, this local option might still be attractive to me for subjective reasons: I'd prefer to stay near my young adult children and keep the house that I worked so hard to buy. So I want to make sure that the I do not close my option of attending this school by doing something stupid.

The PR lady asked me if I wanted to schedule a visit. I replied that right now I was just asking about when they were scheduling career day events and would probably talk to her in the future.

However, I would like to spend some time with someone knowledgeable about the school and ask questions and feel out whether they would be excited or hesitant about my prospective application. It would also be nice to start forming a few relationships with the ad comms or find out who their favorite local doctors, clinics and undergrad teachers are.

Is this advisable? What dangers are inherent in it?

 

[teacherman84]

Your considering DO now? Glad to see youve lowered your expectations.
I think its a great idea. Worst case scenario, you dont like the school and dont want to apply...well...worst case scenario would be that you get on someones bad side and give them a reason they dont want you there.

 

[EdLongshanks]

Your considering DO now? Glad to see youve lowered your expectations.
I think its a great idea. Worst case scenario, you dont like the school and dont want to apply...well...worst case scenario would be that you get on someones bad side and give them a reason they dont want you there.

I reacted against the concept of "You'll have to go to a DO school because allopathic schools don't let in geezers". I don't believe that and I believe that I am well able to get into highly rated schools.

However, while I intend to apply for some of the big name schools, I also don't want to cut off the option of keeping my home and staying close to my family. This may be more important than a harvard or hopkins education - even if I had the research credentials to get into those schools. I don't know what I will get on the MCAT - but what if I did score a 40? I still may choose the local option and the financial and non-material rewards of that decision.

At my age I've learned to keep my options open. Since I am local to this school I have the possibilty of really helping or hurting myself with them by small actions. The local homeless shelter director may be their best friend - or conversely, their worst enemy. If I hurt myself at a big name school - oh well, there are other big name schools. But there is only one local and one near local option. I want to be more careful there.

 

[just one]

I don't think it is ever bad to show a GENUINE interest in the school. However, if your only goal is to "get in good" with ADCOMS, then no I don't think it would be wise. It would be apparent to them by the questions you ask. I think asking who their favorite professors are is not acceptable. I doubt any representative of a medical school will show excitement about anyone's application, especially someone who has not taken the MCAT. I have visited both of my local state schools, one MD and other DO. I visited the MD through a pre-med club tour with others, and a private visit to the DO. I think it would be crazy to think either school will remember me from a visit, I did it to gather information about which school I fit best into.

 

[EdLongshanks]

I don't think it is ever bad to show a GENUINE interest in the school. However, if your only goal is to "get in good" with ADCOMS, then no I don't think it would be wise. It would be apparent to them by the questions you ask. I think asking who their favorite professors are is not acceptable. I doubt any representative of a medical school will show excitement about anyone's application, especially someone who has not taken the MCAT. I have visited both of my local state schools, one MD and other DO. I visited the MD through a pre-med club tour with others, and a private visit to the DO. I think it would be crazy to think either school will remember me from a visit, I did it to gather information about which school I fit best into.

Since we are from the same state and discussing the same schools, this information is valuable. So, visiting the local DO school appears to be a normal practice of serious pre-med students. That is what I wanted to know.

 

[just one]

OSU-COM hosts an event every year called med-x. I highly recommend attending. It is an all day event with the morning having a presentation that outlines info about the school, program, and students both current and future. Lunch is catered, and then a couple of hours touring the facility. Current students and faculty are present all day to answer questions.

 

[WhatsNext]

OSU-COM welcomes future applicants to visit the school, and as JustOne posted Med-Extravaganza is another good opportunity.

If you do visit the school, don't give them any indication that you don't consder it "exclusive" or "prestigious" and that your interest is rooted in the school's convenience for you. OSU is an excellent school which I'm sure has produced many great physicians. The students, faculty, and staff are all very proud of the school and any hint that you're looking down your nose at them would not go over well. Conduct yourself in a professional manner since professionalism is an important characteristic to admissions staff. Keep those in mind and you probably won't ruin your chances by "doing something stupid." Best of luck to you.

 

[EdLongshanks]

OSU-COM welcomes future applicants to visit the school, and as JustOne posted Med-Extravaganza is another good opportunity.

If you do visit the school, don't give them any indication that you don't consder it "exclusive" or "prestigious" and that your interest is rooted in the school's convenience for you. OSU is an excellent school which I'm sure has produced many great physicians. The students, faculty, and staff are all very proud of the school and any hint that you're looking down your nose at them would not go over well. Conduct yourself in a professional manner since professionalism is an important characteristic to admissions staff. Keep those in mind and you probably won't ruin your chances by "doing something stupid." Best of luck to you.

Very good advice. I see what you mean. No one likes to think of themselves as second-tier - and OSU is generally thought of as a top-tier osteopathic school.

But what about those schools who know that they are not? I went to a few Colorado Rockies baseball games and the crowds wanted their team to beat the Yankees and the Red Sox just as if their team was really that good. Reality, though, tells even the most die-hard fan that the Yankees and the Rockies may play in the same baseball league, but are in different talent leagues.

I wonder how those people who are in a second-tier school think about this.

 

[just one]

Very good advice. I see what you mean. No one likes to think of themselves as second-tier - and OSU is generally thought of as a top-tier osteopathic school.

But what about those schools who know that they are not? I went to a few Colorado Rockies baseball games and the crowds wanted their team to beat the Yankees and the Red Sox just as if their team was really that good. Reality, though, tells even the most die-hard fan that the Yankees and the Rockies may play in the same baseball league, but are in different talent leagues.

I wonder how those people who are in a second-tier school think about this.

That analogy does not apply to medical schools. Rankings are subjective, and EVERY medical school considers their program top tier for their criteria. Students graduating from the University of Oklahoma and OSU-COM can and do land residency spots that are considered to be some of the most prestigious. You are ill-informed if you think otherwise. OSU-COM was ranked in the top 30 of medical schools (Osteopathic and Allopathic) by US News and World Report in the past couple of years. After you speak to several schools, I would love to hear which one said they are "second tier" to any other school.

 

[EdLongshanks]

That analogy does not apply to medical schools. Rankings are subjective, and EVERY medical school considers their program top tier for their criteria. Students graduating from the University of Oklahoma and OSU-COM can and do land residency spots that are considered to be some of the most prestigious. You are ill-informed if you think otherwise. OSU-COM was ranked in the top 30 of medical schools (Osteopathic and Allopathic) by US News and World Report in the past couple of years. After you speak to several schools, I would love to hear which one said they are "second tier" to any other school.

I was in the emergency room recently (house fire, burning grease, skin grafts, etc) and took the opportunity to ask the ER doc about the prestigious schools issue (it's not as if I was going anywhere soon). He said that among doctors it is not where you went to school, but rather where you did your residency that matters. He had graduated from OU and scored an ER residency in New Orleans.

This bears out what you said. If students from our state can get prestigious residencies, then they are not handicapped in any way, and in fact might be better off than someone distracted by the social pressure and financial burdens of the ivy league schools.

 

[QofQuimica]

Very good advice. I see what you mean. No one likes to think of themselves as second-tier - and OSU is generally thought of as a top-tier osteopathic school.

But what about those schools who know that they are not? I went to a few Colorado Rockies baseball games and the crowds wanted their team to beat the Yankees and the Red Sox just as if their team was really that good. Reality, though, tells even the most die-hard fan that the Yankees and the Rockies may play in the same baseball league, but are in different talent leagues.

I wonder how those people who are in a second-tier school think about this.

Medical school tiers aren't very analogous to baseball team tiers. All American schools have to meet the same LCME accreditation standards, meaning that even the "worst" American medical school still provides the same basic educational content that the "best" American medical school provides. The LCME conducts reviews of all medical schools every few years to ensure that the curriculum quality is up to par. In contrast, baseball teams are not reviewed or held to a single performance standard, as your example so nicely demonstrated.

When thinking about rankings, keep in mind that USNWR largely ranks medical schools based on noneducational factors like NIH research funding, which some people consider to be a measure of prestige. Other people argue, however, that the teaching and clinical care is better at nonresearch-oriented schools since that is their main focus (as opposed to research). I would imagine that the people at your hypothetical second tier school would be in the second camp. 🙂

 

[WhatsNext]

I agree that the baseball analogy might not be the best, but I'm going to run with it. I'd be willing to bet that there are some terrible players on the Yankees and Red Sox teams. Along those same lines, I'm sure the Rockies have some outstanding players.

There are many characteristics that make a great physician - the least of which, in my opinion, are where he went to school or whether he has the letters M.D. or D.O after his name.

That being said, if your goal is to attend a highly recognized school like Harvard, Washington, Baylor, etc. then more power to you, and I wish you success in your endeavor. But, as you said in your original post, keep yourself open to your state schools. I'm sure both of them provide high quality medical education.

 

[WhatsNext]

Off topic. I love the avatar QofQuimica.

 

[EdLongshanks]

I agree that the baseball analogy might not be the best, but I'm going to run with it. I'd be willing to bet that there are some terrible players on the Yankees and Red Sox teams. Along those same lines, I'm sure the Rockies have some outstanding players.

There are many characteristics that make a great physician - the least of which, in my opinion, are where he went to school or whether he has the letters M.D. or D.O after his name.

That being said, if your goal is to attend a highly recognized school like Harvard, Washington, Baylor, etc. then more power to you, and I wish you success in your endeavor. But, as you said in your original post, keep yourself open to your state schools. I'm sure both of them provide high quality medical education.

Actually, you all have pretty much convinced me to stay Okie. I mean, none of us are immune from Pride, but I love Oklahoma and okies, and frankly, I don't like the Ivy League people that I have met very much. After all, I'm arrogant, but at least I KNOW IT.

 

[QofQuimica]

But, as you said in your original post, keep yourself open to your state schools. I'm sure both of them provide high quality medical education.

If they didn't, they would lose their accreditation. LCME reviews are a major deal. It takes a med school a year or more to prepare for them, and the maximum time between reviews is only eight years.

Off topic. I love the avatar QofQuimica.

Thanks. I drew the picture myself, although I can't take credit for coming up with the pun. 🙂

 

[WhatsNext]

If they didn't, they would lose their accreditation. LCME reviews are a major deal. It takes a med school a year or more to prepare for them, and the maximum time between reviews is only eight years.

Agreed. I just didn't want to speak in absolutes since I just applied and do not have firsthand knowledge from attending either school.

Actually, you all have pretty much convinced me to stay Okie. I mean, none of us are immune from Pride, but I love Oklahoma and okies, and frankly, I don't like the Ivy League people that I have met very much. After all, I'm arrogant, but at least I KNOW IT.

Okies are good people. Perhaps we will meet in person one day if it's meant to be. Enjoy pre-med and good luck on the MCAT when you take it.

 

[njbmd]

I will probably be applying to med school to start in 2011.

The closest state school to me is Osteopathic. I just called to get a little information about it. Their public relations lady told me that their average GPA is 3.6 and their average MCAT is 27 - although I have not yet taken the MCAT I don't think that beating this score will be difficult - if it is I will re-evaluate at that time.

This school - although it's stats show that it's clearly not the most exclusive med-school in the US - is extremely convenient to me for life-style purposes. Even if I get an opportunity to attend a more prestigious school, this local option might still be attractive to me for subjective reasons: I'd prefer to stay near my young adult children and keep the house that I worked so hard to buy. So I want to make sure that the I do not close my option of attending this school by doing something stupid.

The PR lady asked me if I wanted to schedule a visit. I replied that right now I was just asking about when they were scheduling career day events and would probably talk to her in the future.

However, I would like to spend some time with someone knowledgeable about the school and ask questions and feel out whether they would be excited or hesitant about my prospective application. It would also be nice to start forming a few relationships with the ad comms or find out who their favorite local doctors, clinics and undergrad teachers are.
Is this advisable? What dangers are inherent in it?

Schmoozing isn't going to help you very much in the admissions process and is generally considered a nuisance if you even get that far. Get your academics in top shape, prepare a competitive and well-written application with good extracurricular activities. These things will greatly enhance your admission into medical school. At the end of the day, the most "exciting" prospective students are the excellent ones not the ones with the "brown noses".

If you want to get the "medical school" experience, go to the school, speak with some of the students who are attending there and find out what they did for successful entry. Trying to brown-nose the administration (or admissions) by "feeling them out" is likely to be a huge backfire and you will certainly be a source of humor for most of the office personnel (they know the drill well).

This isn't like the undergraduate college admissions process. You don't get points for just being "interested" in the school. Your interest is implied by submission of an application.

 

[NTF]

Schmoozing isn't going to help you very much in the admissions process and is generally considered a nuisance if you even get that far. Get your academics in top shape, prepare a competitive and well-written application with good extracurricular activities. These things will greatly enhance your admission into medical school. At the end of the day, the most "exciting" prospective students are the excellent ones not the ones with the "brown noses".

If you want to get the "medical school" experience, go to the school, speak with some of the students who are attending there and find out what they did for successful entry. Trying to brown-nose the administration (or admissions) by "feeling them out" is likely to be a huge backfire and you will certainly be a source of humor for most of the office personnel (they know the drill well).

This isn't like the undergraduate college admissions process. You don't get points for just being "interested" in the school. Your interest is implied by submission of an application.

I'm not sure I agree entirely with this. I do agree that the gamesmanship of pre-application visits is overrated. You still need to have a good application and good fit. But I don't think that you'll be a source of humor or be seen as "brown-nosed" just for coming in for a visit or trying to develop ties to your local med school. If you're expressing a sincere interest in their school and medicine as a career, they'll probably take it as such. You're likely to get some decent advice about what you can improve about your application. Now, while it won't make a difference in the vast majority of cases I do think being "on their radar" does help in some borderline cases where they could go either way.

My experience with admissions offices is by no means expansive, but of the three that I've had contact with I didn't get the impression that any of them were anything but happy to sit down with a prospective applicant.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

Eh, I think visiting is neither a gain nor lose situation from an admissions perspective. Get competitive numbers, write a good essay and have a good interview -- these are the things that matter for getting admitted. Visit if you're actually interested in looking at the school (again, I feel like this is pretty low yield because medical school is medical school -- the quality of the classrooms don't really that).

 

[MLT2MT2DO]

I agree that the baseball analogy might not be the best, but I'm going to run with it. I'd be willing to bet that there are some terrible players on the Yankees and Red Sox teams. Along those same lines, I'm sure the Rockies have some outstanding players.

Ok, I couldn't help but chime in. I'm planning on going DO AND I'm a diehard Rockies fan. Working in the medical field, once you're a doctor nobody but pre-meds care where you went to medical school, much like once you're in medical school nobody cares that you did your UG at Harvard.

Now onto the Rockies (I don't know why you didn't pick the Nationals or someone else), as of late the Rockies have been more successful in the postseason, and the last time we faced NYY in a 3 game series we swept them. So I'm not really sure if you made the best analogy. You probably should have just stuck with the Red Sox in your comparison.

 

[EdLongshanks]

Now onto the Rockies (I don't know why you didn't pick the Nationals or someone else), as of late the Rockies have been more successful in the postseason, and the last time we faced NYY in a 3 game series we swept them. So I'm not really sure if you made the best analogy. You probably should have just stuck with the Red Sox in your comparison.

Because I'm kind of a disappointed Rockies fan myself.

Go Holiday!

 

[BennieBlanco]

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