Is applying to dental school with a PhD a pro or con?

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vsun

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Hello everyone,

strange question that I have.
I applied to dental school last cycle and didn't get in anywhere. I also applied to a masters program in biomedical engineering as a backup. So now I am in school for my masters.

I am applying again next cycle and am hoping a masters would make me stand out. But on the off-chance I get rejected again, I could take the prelim exam to try to become a PhD in biomed engineering.
So my question is: would having a PhD in biomed engineering help or hinder an applicant for dental school?

I thought it would hurt an applicant because the admissions will see that PhD degree and imagine I am wasting my knowledge for going into dental school. I asked my dentist and he said it would definitely help me to get in because it shows I am committed to my work.

Don't get me wrong; I'm not trying to use PhD as a ploy to get into dental school. I am genuinely interested in research and can imagine myself jumping from MS to PhD track (if I could find a professor to fund me). To me right now the PhD seems easier to achieve than dental school. But I still would like to be a dentist as a career.

Thanks for reading and please let me know what you think.

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Hello everyone,

strange question that I have.
I applied to dental school last cycle and didn't get in anywhere. I also applied to a masters program in biomedical engineering as a backup. So now I am in school for my masters.

I am applying again next cycle and am hoping a masters would make me stand out. But on the off-chance I get rejected again, I could take the prelim exam to try to become a PhD in biomed engineering.
So my question is: would having a PhD in biomed engineering help or hinder an applicant for dental school?

I thought it would hurt an applicant because the admissions will see that PhD degree and imagine I am wasting my knowledge for going into dental school. I asked my dentist and he said it would definitely help me to get in because it shows I am committed to my work.

Don't get me wrong; I'm not trying to use PhD as a ploy to get into dental school. I am genuinely interested in research and can imagine myself jumping from MS to PhD track (if I could find a professor to fund me). To me right now the PhD seems easier to achieve than dental school. But I still would like to be a dentist as a career.

Thanks for reading and please let me know what you think.

you should probably pick between the phd or d-school. i think having both might make you look indecisive and i dont know if adcoms will understand or believe your intentions for wanting to go to d-school. i would say stop at the masters (if you want to go to d-school) or continue the phd (but expect to go into that field)

i dont think you will be automatically rejected or excluded from each and every school, but during any interview you will have to prove your intentions and if they dont believe you or dont quite understand your goals, then i can see adcoms rejecting you. Basically you might seem "overqualified" this happens in the real world so often that even the best applicants for any positions can be rejected based on having "too much of a good thing."
 
Thanks for the reply. Then next year I should definitely do my best on applications because if I dont get in I most likely will go onto PhD or work in industry.

You'd think that the numerous shadowing and volunteer hours at a dental clinic shows that one is interested in that career. Even now in school I still spend a few hours a week shadowing a dentist.

You dont think it would help me get into research schools such as harvard or UCSF?
 
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Thanks for the reply. Then next year I should definitely do my best on applications because if I dont get in I most likely will go onto PhD or work in industry.

You'd think that the numerous shadowing and volunteer hours at a dental clinic shows that one is interested in that career. Even now in school I still spend a few hours a week shadowing a dentist.

You dont think it would help me get into research schools such as harvard or UCSF?

all in all shadowing and volunteering vary by school. I dont know much about either of those schools since I did not apply to them, but what are your stats DAT and GPA? Im just curious what they are and what you feel happened that you were not accepted last year?
 
I think that is bad advice. Why would some schools offer a DMD/PhD if they did not look appreciate it?

You cannot possibly go wrong with a PhD. It shows your commitment to your work and dedication to the field. You may find that you enjoy dental research or wish to become a professor at a dental school after you graduate.

How could you possibly go wrong by becoming a highly qualified candidate?
 
School such as MICH offers DMD/PhD dual program, kill 2 birds at a time.

and yes, a PhD def helps you with Dental school.
 
i think you guys are missing the point, #1 most people dont get phds before dental school therefore that might not look right and #2 there is a difference between a phd thats d-school related and one thats not. a phd in biochem is better suited for a professor vs. a dentist.

and wizi your assumption about phd/dmd does not make sense, just because a school offers both programs does not mean that an applicant with a phd is a better applicant.

all im saying is that unlike a phd/dmd program, an applicant with a phd has to explain his love for dentistry so well that if he/she blows it, they would probably get rejected faster than someone with a plain old bachelors. Again you have to "sell your love" in order to have adcoms believe that you're not flaky or indecisive towards your future. How many applicants have you heard of that have a phd and changed their minds and actually got accepted into d-school? i've personally never heard of any, but even if they do exist, im sure the number is exceptionally low. Plus i see no correlation between a phd and a good d-school applicant.

PS i just found the old http://illinoispredental.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/2009-Official-Guide-Chapters-1-4.pdf file. as you can see there were less than 20 admitted DDS/DMD students who had Phds. but look at the # of students with masters its really Huge. granted not a lot of dschool applicants have Phds, but I dont find the argument that having a Phd is beneficial towards your application to have any merit. Unless you guys can show me something. (again a school that offers a phd/dmd does not imply that it will accept or seek students with preexisting non-dental phds.)

I think the Op has to examine his/her GPA, DAT and Interviewing skills to determine the problematic areas. Otherwise we would all seek Phds to increase our chances 🙂
 
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I was kinda in the same situation. I am finishing up my masters and applying this cycle, but there was a year or so where I was debating going into the PhD, because I enjoy research as well. In the end I realized that no matter what I wanted to eventually practice dentistry, so if you feel the same way I would just spend your time in your masters prepping for applying the year before you plan to finish your masters. Those are just my thoughts...because you can still do research with a DDS, right? If I don't get in this cylce..then I'll consider my options of continuing with research. Hope this helps!
 
I am sure having a PHd can't hurt you BUT, it takes a lot of time to get one. If you want to be a dentist for your career, why not try to matriculate as soon as possible and get your training underway? and as people noted before, you can always get a duel degree if research interests you.
 
Hello everyone,

strange question that I have.
I applied to dental school last cycle and didn't get in anywhere. I also applied to a masters program in biomedical engineering as a backup. So now I am in school for my masters.

I am applying again next cycle and am hoping a masters would make me stand out. But on the off-chance I get rejected again, I could take the prelim exam to try to become a PhD in biomed engineering.
So my question is: would having a PhD in biomed engineering help or hinder an applicant for dental school?

I thought it would hurt an applicant because the admissions will see that PhD degree and imagine I am wasting my knowledge for going into dental school. I asked my dentist and he said it would definitely help me to get in because it shows I am committed to my work.

Don't get me wrong; I'm not trying to use PhD as a ploy to get into dental school. I am genuinely interested in research and can imagine myself jumping from MS to PhD track (if I could find a professor to fund me). To me right now the PhD seems easier to achieve than dental school. But I still would like to be a dentist as a career.

Thanks for reading and please let me know what you think.

Another thing to consider is grade and DAT score inflation you would face as an applicant 4 years later provided that you defend your thesis on time.
When I was applying three years ago with a bachelor, AA19, 3.3 was considered competitive. But, I chose to do a research-based master, and not only did it take me two and half years to complete the program, but also my 4.0 graduate gpa didn't affect my overall gpa that much.
 
dds/phd track programs are designed to train academic dentists normally
 
Hello everyone,

strange question that I have.
I applied to dental school last cycle and didn't get in anywhere. I also applied to a masters program in biomedical engineering as a backup. So now I am in school for my masters.

I am applying again next cycle and am hoping a masters would make me stand out. But on the off-chance I get rejected again, I could take the prelim exam to try to become a PhD in biomed engineering.
So my question is: would having a PhD in biomed engineering help or hinder an applicant for dental school?

I thought it would hurt an applicant because the admissions will see that PhD degree and imagine I am wasting my knowledge for going into dental school. I asked my dentist and he said it would definitely help me to get in because it shows I am committed to my work.

Don't get me wrong; I'm not trying to use PhD as a ploy to get into dental school. I am genuinely interested in research and can imagine myself jumping from MS to PhD track (if I could find a professor to fund me). To me right now the PhD seems easier to achieve than dental school. But I still would like to be a dentist as a career.

Thanks for reading and please let me know what you think.

Don't do it because you think it's going to be easier. In fact, it will make your journey to dental school that much harder. What is your GPA? If it is lower than a 3.2, I highly suggest doing post-bacc to raise it as high as you can. This is a way more efficient strategy than trying to sink yourself into a phd program in hopes of helping you get into d-school. Also by the time you finish a phd, I'm willing to bet that d-school is going to be much harder to get into as DAT/GPA averages are on the rise. Will the phd help you? Not gonna lie it probably looks good but ONLY if you earned it previously before considering dentistry imo. For your situation, it just seems impractical.
 
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Applying with a PhD can only help you...its one of the highest professional degrees one can get. I am sure when they would look at your application and see that you have a PhD they would be impressed and that would def help you get into Dental school.
 
Applying with a PhD can only help you...its one of the highest professional degrees one can get. I am sure when they would look at your application and see that you have a PhD they would be impressed and that would def help you get into Dental school.

lol this isnt really good advice, read what everyone else wrote. its not practical.
 
im not talking about practicality , if the kid wants to get his phD cause he wants his PhD that wont hurt his chances...thats all im saying. Yea he will prob start working later on in his life but who cares. I know Dentists that get their CFA's cause they want a CFA...yea they prob wont be at Goldman but if they want knowledge on some other topic props to them.
 
What a waste of time dude. Just 'up' your stats and don't waste another 4+ years in school...
 
im not talking about practicality , if the kid wants to get his phD cause he wants his PhD that wont hurt his chances...thats all im saying. Yea he will prob start working later on in his life but who cares. I know Dentists that get their CFA's cause they want a CFA...yea they prob wont be at Goldman but if they want knowledge on some other topic props to them.

lol it will hurt his chances, because by the time hes done his gpa might be too low for d-schools, just read everything above, it makes no sense. and your argument makes no sense either lol phd has nothing to do with d-school and is not necessary, otherwise everyone would get it.
 
you lol too much....and you know nothing about getting a PhD...to get a PhD you need to have all A and B grades..so realistically your gonna have above a 3.0 easily ..so you will still be competitive,..second having a graduate degree cant hurt, Master or PhD,. All the kid asked was if it would hinder his chances..IMHO it would not. Dental schools wouldnt look at it and say " well this kid has a PhD and thats really gonna hurt his chances"...stop talking about practicality, that's not what he asked about.
 
you lol too much....and you know nothing about getting a PhD...to get a PhD you need to have all A and B grades..so realistically your gonna have above a 3.0 easily ..so you will still be competitive,..second having a graduate degree cant hurt, Master or PhD,. All the kid asked was if it would hinder his chances..IMHO it would not. Dental schools wouldnt look at it and say " well this kid has a PhD and thats really gonna hurt his chances"...stop talking about practicality, that's not what he asked about.

like i said you dont need a phd and he will waste his time, why does a d-school student need a phd in biochem? dont you think he would look confused or indecisive to an admission committee, also dont you think wasting time on a phd would mean he would face significantly harder competition in the later years when he plans to apply? maybe you dont think d school admission is getting harder and harder each year.

having a phd will not guarantee anything and i think in the end its probably worse to get it, read everything else above there's a lot of good factual information there, not just heartfelt emotion.

ps why would you do impractical things? why spend all that money on a degree that you dont even want or need (since you want to go to d-school) practicality matters more than you think.
 
im not talking about practicality , if the kid wants to get his phD cause he wants his PhD that wont hurt his chances...thats all im saying. Yea he will prob start working later on in his life but who cares. I know Dentists that get their CFA's cause they want a CFA...yea they prob wont be at Goldman but if they want knowledge on some other topic props to them.

wth is a CFA and how does it have to do with a phd? does it take 4 yrs plus a book to get it? lol.. bro ur missing the whole point. By the time this kid graduates from his phd, hes gonna have to score much higher on the DAT than the generation of today lol
 
i agree, the kid doesnt need a PhD in biochem to be a GD, there is no connection..BUT if he does well in graduate school,does well on the DAT and applies with 2 degrees, PhD and Bach and has some dental experience I dont see why admissions wont look at him..imo he is more qualified then some bachelors kid that went to some crappy school that inflated his grades and did subpar on the DAT..YES he tech doesnt need it to practice some general dental procedures but it wouldnt hurt his chances of getting a interview..if they see a smart kid with two degrees he will get an interview.. and why cant someone be interested in biochem and dentistry??...youre not and thats obvious but many people have many interests ..he likes research, maybe admissions can see him applying his research skills later on in dental research or maybe they can see him being a good dental professor...Other then biology I am also interested in economics and finance and I believe that will help me later on in being a Dentist,... Dental schools like well rounded applicants ..
 
seriously?...you dont know what a CFA is?...damn..I mean know your a science major but it wouldn't hurt to know other professions lol
 
i agree, the kid doesnt need a PhD in biochem to be a GD, there is no connection..BUT if he does well in graduate school,does well on the DAT and applies with 2 degrees, PhD and Bach and has some dental experience I dont see why admissions wont look at him..imo he is more qualified then some bachelors kid that went to some crappy school that inflated his grades and did subpar on the DAT..YES he tech doesnt need it to practice some general dental procedures but it wouldnt hurt his chances of getting a interview..if they see a smart kid with two degrees he will get an interview.. and why cant someone be interested in biochem and dentistry??...youre not and thats obvious but many people have many interests ..he likes research, maybe admissions can see him applying his research skills later on in dental research or maybe they can see him being a good dental professor...Other then biology I am also interested in economics and finance and I believe that will help me later on in being a Dentist,... Dental schools like well rounded applicants ..

yeah ur claim is just mad weak dude.. if u wanna be a dental professor than do the combined dmd/phd.. oh and get into dental school first!

seriously?...you dont know what a CFA is?...damn..I mean know your a science major but it wouldn't hurt to know other professions lol

your right, i guess i spend way too much time talkin to the ladies instead of researching all the different degrees in the world all day so i can claim that i am well rounded with everything lol
 
seriously?...you dont know what a CFA is?...damn..I mean know your a science major but it wouldn't hurt to know other professions lol

for your info smart guy im a non trad.. im well aware of what the CFA is and who needs it and im sure you would recommend him to get a CFA as well :laugh:

your whole point is useless just like your other posts. im gonna stop commenting now because i feel my brain hurts from this "intelligent conversation."

i think after enough responses, the OP understands what makes sense to adcoms and what doesn't.
 
yeah ur claim is just mad weak dude.. if u wanna be a dental professor than do the combined dmd/phd.. oh and get into dental school first!



your right, i guess i spend way too much time talkin to the ladies instead of researching all the different degrees in the world all day so i can claim that i am well rounded with everything lol


..im sure you really are a mac daddy..with all of those sdn posts your prob get mad ***** every night..but honestly you not knowing that shows me the level ur on...and gl to you too bro!
 
for your info smart guy im a non trad.. im well aware of what the CFA is and who needs it and im sure you would recommend him to get a CFA as well :laugh:

your whole point is useless just like your other posts. im gonna stop commenting now because i feel my brain hurts from this "intelligent conversation."

i think after enough responses, the OP understands what makes sense to adcoms and what doesn't.

..i wasn't talking to you but thanks for the head ups
 
..im sure you really are a mac daddy..with all of those sdn posts your prob get mad ***** every night..but honestly you not knowing that shows me the level ur on...and gl to you too bro!

like u said, u gotta be very well rounded.. so i do sdn and mackin
 
contrary to what the consensus seems to be, there are a few students at ucla dental that have phd's already.

since ucla is quite a selective school, does that make all your arguments invalid?

and it really doesnt help to have online fights. it's a good way to get on probation or banned
 
School such as MICH offers DMD/PhD dual program, kill 2 birds at a time. and yes, a PhD def helps you with Dental school.

You mean they offer a degree in biomedical engineering?

i think you guys are missing the point, #1 most people dont get phds before dental school therefore that might not look right and #2 there is a difference between a phd thats d-school related and one thats not. a phd in biochem is better suited for a professor vs. a dentist.
and wizi your assumption about phd/dmd does not make sense, just because a school offers both programs does not mean that an applicant with a phd is a better applicant.
all im saying is that unlike a phd/dmd program, an applicant with a phd has to explain his love for dentistry so well that if he/she blows it, they would probably get rejected faster than someone with a plain old bachelors. Again you have to "sell your love" in order to have adcoms believe that you're not flaky or indecisive towards your future. How many applicants have you heard of that have a phd and changed their minds and actually got accepted into d-school? i've personally never heard of any, but even if they do exist, im sure the number is exceptionally low. Plus i see no correlation between a phd and a good d-school applicant.
PS i just found the old http://illinoispredental.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/2009-Official-Guide-Chapters-1-4.pdf file. as you can see there were less than 20 admitted DDS/DMD students who had Phds. but look at the # of students with masters its really Huge. granted not a lot of dschool applicants have Phds, but I dont find the argument that having a Phd is beneficial towards your application to have any merit. Unless you guys can show me something. (again a school that offers a phd/dmd does not imply that it will accept or seek students with preexisting non-dental phds.)
I think the Op has to examine his/her GPA, DAT and Interviewing skills to determine the problematic areas. Otherwise we would all seek Phds to increase our chances 🙂

In general, an advanced degree is certainly beneficial especially in cases where the gpa for the undergraduate degree was not particularly impressive. An MS or a PhD. does show that the applicant is capable of handling graduate level courses. Selling a love for dentistry is a heck of a lot easier than selling one's ability to handle the ds curriculum. Interpreting numbers alone can be a risky business. While the numbers of enrollees with an MS is high compared to PhDs, they actually represent the least favorable ratio compared to the overall pool.
 

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You mean they offer a degree in biomedical engineering?



In general, an advanced degree is certainly beneficial especially in cases where the gpa for the undergraduate degree was not particularly impressive. An MS or a PhD. does show that the applicant is capable of handling graduate level courses. Selling a love for dentistry is a heck of a lot easier than selling one's ability to handle the ds curriculum. Interpreting numbers alone can be a risky business. While the numbers of enrollees with an MS is high compared to PhDs, they actually represent the least favorable ratio compared to the overall pool.

wouldnt you think that the X amount of years spent on the Phd, makes the applicant worse off because he is now fighting against a higher standard? Since GPA and DAT requirements are slowly rising each year. i dunno im not sold on the idea. but to each his own.
 
In my opinion it can only benefit you but it is really unnecessary.
 
wouldnt you think that the X amount of years spent on the Phd, makes the applicant worse off because he is now fighting against a higher standard? Since GPA and DAT requirements are slowly rising each year. i dunno im not sold on the idea. but to each his own.

The suggestion that an applicant with an undergraduate degree can claim a "higher standard" than one with a Ph.D. is, well....interesting, to say the least.
 
The suggestion that an applicant with an undergraduate degree can claim a "higher standard" than one with a Ph.D. is, well....interesting, to say the least.

what i meant was that in a few years d-schools will have a higher gpa and dat standard. which is true, so the few years doing the phd, might not really help much. i dunno im in the camp that thinks there are easier ways to raise the GPA instead of going to the phd route. but i think its time i end my 2cents in this thread, since the OP seems to have made up their mind.
 
Greetings,

A person with a PhD will have an utmost competitive edge over the rest. Period. And unless you completely bombed your DAT, or failed horribly at the interview or have failed in many of your classes you will get in anywhere. But this is not to say that you should get your PhD then apply for DS because there are other ways than this drastic measure. Do a MS program, do well on DAT and you will get in. DP
 
Wow thanks for the replies everyone.

Just to clarify I'm not doing MS to boost my GPA. My undergrad GPA was 3.6 in biomedical engineering. My MS is now in biomed engineering as well. If I were to go towards PhD, it would be in biomed engr also.

My DAT stats weren't so great (~19) so that's prob why I didn't get accepted. And you guys are right, the bar (GPA and DAT score) will be raised higher in the coming years. My dentist applied back in the 1995 and got into BU with average GPA and 20 on DAT.

It seems the consensus is PhD doesn't hurt, but if dental school is the main goal, it isn't practical to waste time spending all those years doing research. I hear what you guys are saying. I will definitely apply again after I get my MS and see what happens.

In the meantime, a potential MS project I am working on is imaging teeth pulp. Maybe that would help with admissions too.

Thanks for the advice!
 
Wow thanks for the replies everyone.

Just to clarify I'm not doing MS to boost my GPA. My undergrad GPA was 3.6 in biomedical engineering. My MS is now in biomed engineering as well. If I were to go towards PhD, it would be in biomed engr also.

My DAT stats weren't so great (~19) so that's prob why I didn't get accepted. And you guys are right, the bar (GPA and DAT score) will be raised higher in the coming years. My dentist applied back in the 1995 and got into BU with average GPA and 20 on DAT.

It seems the consensus is PhD doesn't hurt, but if dental school is the main goal, it isn't practical to waste time spending all those years doing research. I hear what you guys are saying. I will definitely apply again after I get my MS and see what happens.

In the meantime, a potential MS project I am working on is imaging teeth pulp. Maybe that would help with admissions too.

Thanks for the advice!

3.6 GPA and 19 DAT is awesome. Whats wrong you? Did you apply yet?

My shadowing dentist who went to BU and graduated in 1999 got in with 16 on DAT.
 
Wow thanks for the replies everyone.

Just to clarify I'm not doing MS to boost my GPA. My undergrad GPA was 3.6 in biomedical engineering. My MS is now in biomed engineering as well. If I were to go towards PhD, it would be in biomed engr also.

My DAT stats weren't so great (~19) so that's prob why I didn't get accepted. And you guys are right, the bar (GPA and DAT score) will be raised higher in the coming years. My dentist applied back in the 1995 and got into BU with average GPA and 20 on DAT.

It seems the consensus is PhD doesn't hurt, but if dental school is the main goal, it isn't practical to waste time spending all those years doing research. I hear what you guys are saying. I will definitely apply again after I get my MS and see what happens.

In the meantime, a potential MS project I am working on is imaging teeth pulp. Maybe that would help with admissions too.

Thanks for the advice!

👍 personally I think thats the best idea! because its your choice and you should be happy with it.
 
3.6 GPA and 19 DAT is awesome. Whats wrong you? Did you apply yet?

My shadowing dentist who went to BU and graduated in 1999 got in with 16 on DAT.

Haha, nothing's "wrong" with me. At least I dont think so.

I applied last cycle (2010) and didn't get in anywhere but got 2 interviews (LLU and Temple). LLU didn't accept me because I was not "faithful" enough; I dont know why Temple rejected me.
 
Haha, nothing's "wrong" with me. At least I dont think so.

I applied last cycle (2010) and didn't get in anywhere but got 2 interviews (LLU and Temple). LLU didn't accept me because I was not "faithful" enough; I dont know why Temple rejected me.

What the hell is being "faithful," they have some sort of religion/faithfulness test.
 
What the hell is being "faithful," they have some sort of religion/faithfulness test.

I'm not sure if thats why I didn't get in but I'm sure it played a big part. I told them I didn't really believe in God during my interview and my pastor LOR wasn't so great (was written by my gf's mom). lol anyways I've kinda decided I dont want to go to school there because the area sucks (desert all around). And I know what its like, I lived in Loma Linda for a year with my girlfriend.
 
there are a few people at my school who have their phD, and they all received several interviews so i dont think it hindered their aspirations to be a dentist at all
 
Having a Phd won't hurt your chances at becoming a dentist as long as you can explain your story! There are plenty of people who switch their profession later on in life and decide they want to go to dental school or medical school. You see it all the time thats why the age range in dental school is so wide - cuz there is a decent amount of people who went lived their lives with a PhD, or an architect or a teacher (Ive seen all 3) and than decide wow, I've been in the wrong profession for a while. The only leg up you have on all these other professions is yours is science related which will deem you capable of taking and succeeding in the classes. As long as you have a solid story plus evidence why you want to be a dentist (that its not just on a whim), you def can make it in dental school
 
as stated above, a phd might not help, best to raise your GPA or DAT and apply to D-school (before d-school requirements are significantly raised.)
 
Greetings,

A person with a PhD will have an utmost competitive edge over the rest. Period. And unless you completely bombed your DAT, or failed horribly at the interview or have failed in many of your classes you will get in anywhere. But this is not to say that you should get your PhD then apply for DS because there are other ways than this drastic measure. Do a MS program, do well on DAT and you will get in. DP

👍
 
Ok guys. Update about a year later.

I'm getting ready to apply to D-school again. I'm aiming for DDS/PhD programs. Hopefully if I fail the DDS/PhD, I am still considered for DDS.

This time around I'm apply for bajillion schools and submitting right at the opening of the application.

If I dont get in to D-school, I would be really sad. Then I must just use my degree and get a job.
 
Update again a few years later.

Finished my first year of dental school. Currently doing summer research at the school (and may continue with research because its pretty interesting). Starting 2nd year end of this month.

I heard 2nd year is hardest, so not looking forward to it. Can't believe its been a year, and by this time next year I'll be touching patients!
 
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