Is being a successful dentist = being a successful business man?

[nap5035]

I have to be honest--I can understand why lots of dentists are surprised to see that they don't make a lot of money when they get out of dental school. I've shadowed a few dentists. I shadowed a guy who went to a very good dental school. He doesn't make much money. Not because he's a bad dentist, but because he's not a business man. No advertising, poor staff management skills, poorly maintained office. Another dentist I shadowed, went to an average/below average dental school. But he advertises like crazy, has an asthetically pleasing office, and has been involved in purchasing and selling offices for over 20 years.

The key to success in my opinion is being a good business man. This is in any profession. A good business man can go into the field of ice cream and come out creating a multi-million dollar ice cream conglomerate. I think some of my fellow pre-dents look at themselves and see top students who deserve to be compensated for their intelligence. That once they get out of Stony Brook/Harvard/UCLA dental that they is going to be a dentist office fighting for him/her to give them 150,000 starting salary and it'll take flight from there. At the end of dental school, we're all going to be just business men/women. I don't go to my dentist because he went to the best dental school. I go to my dentist because he's an active member of the community, I've golfed with him, and he's an all around nice guy. He's created a solid brand around himself, one that makes people go to him over other dentists.

For those who are going to dental school because they love helping people, and get satisfaction out of that, I don't think dentistry is for you at this point. You could go work at Habitat For Humanity, not-for-profits, and make decent money for the rest of your life without getting into crazy debt. Getting into 400,000 dollars of debt because you "like making people feel better" is not a smart financial move.

Getting into debt because you enjoy the field but also acknowledge the challenge put in front of you is another thing entirely. I am entering dentistry because 1) I enjoy what I have seen about the field 2) Feel that I can create a solid brand around myself 3) want to be a CEO. Being a dentist in your own office is being a CEO. You have to control your Human Resource Department. You have to be in charge of your Finance division.

Sorry for the rant, but it just annoys me when people say "it's not worth it to go 350,000 in debt only to top out at 200,000 a year afterwards/i couldve been in another field and been at the same place."

if you're not satisfied with your position in life, its because you're not being the best business man you can be.

if you told me right now that im going to pay 300,000 to graduate dental school at 29, only to top out at making 200,000 for the rest of my life, i'd throw my books away now and head to wall street. dont you see how stupid of a financial investment that is? it boggles my mind why people would do that. but you know why i'm doing it? because I KNOW that as a CEO of my dental office I can make 400,000 a year. Not based on production, but by owning real estate, buying other offices/hiring in house specialists etc.

the dentist driving the ferrari down the street is not the one with the most production.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[dentalWorks]

I have to be honest--I can understand why lots of dentists are surprised to see that they don't make a lot of money when they get out of dental school. I've shadowed a few dentists. I shadowed a guy who went to a very good dental school. He doesn't make much money. Not because he's a bad dentist, but because he's not a business man. No advertising, poor staff management skills, poorly maintained office. Another dentist I shadowed, went to an average/below average dental school. But he advertises like crazy, has an asthetically pleasing office, and has been involved in purchasing and selling offices for over 20 years.

The key to success in my opinion is being a good business man. This is in any profession. A good business man can go into the field of ice cream and come out creating a multi-million dollar ice cream conglomerate. I think some of my fellow pre-dents look at themselves and see top students who deserve to be compensated for their intelligence. That once they get out of Stony Brook/Harvard/UCLA dental that they is going to be a dentist office fighting for him/her to give them 150,000 starting salary and it'll take flight from there. At the end of dental school, we're all going to be just business men/women. I don't go to my dentist because he went to the best dental school. I go to my dentist because he's an active member of the community, I've golfed with him, and he's an all around nice guy. He's created a solid brand around himself, one that makes people go to him over other dentists.

For those who are going to dental school because they love helping people, and get satisfaction out of that, I don't think dentistry is for you at this point. You could go work at Habitat For Humanity, not-for-profits, and make decent money for the rest of your life without getting into crazy debt. Getting into 400,000 dollars of debt because you "like making people feel better" is not a smart financial move.

Getting into debt because you enjoy the field but also acknowledge the challenge put in front of you is another thing entirely. I am entering dentistry because 1) I enjoy what I have seen about the field 2) Feel that I can create a solid brand around myself 3) want to be a CEO. Being a dentist in your own office is being a CEO. You have to control your Human Resource Department. You have to be in charge of your Finance division.

Sorry for the rant, but it just annoys me when people say "it's not worth it to go 350,000 in debt only to top out at 200,000 a year afterwards/i couldve been in another field and been at the same place."

if you're not satisfied with your position in life, its because you're not being the best business man you can be.

if you told me right now that im going to pay 300,000 to graduate dental school at 29, only to top out at making 200,000 for the rest of my life, i'd throw my books away now and head to wall street. dont you see how stupid of a financial investment that is? it boggles my mind why people would do that. but you know why i'm doing it? because I KNOW that as a CEO of my dental office I can make 400,000 a year. Not based on production, but by owning real estate, buying other offices/hiring in house specialists etc.

the dentist driving the ferrari down the street is not the one with the most production.

maybe 200k will never be achieved.... BUT...

The probability of you becoming a dentist making 150k a year till retirement is ALOT GREATER than you becoming a big-time wall street investor.

Its true business skills will help your dentist salary, but there is also limitations.... On top of that, and I am sure some dentists will agree, dentistry is as much about customer service as it is about the actual medicine practiced.

 

[7 Iron]

I have to be honest--I can understand why lots of dentists are surprised to see that they don't make a lot of money when they get out of dental school. I've shadowed a few dentists. I shadowed a guy who went to a very good dental school. He doesn't make much money. Not because he's a bad dentist, but because he's not a business man. No advertising, poor staff management skills, poorly maintained office. Another dentist I shadowed, went to an average/below average dental school. But he advertises like crazy, has an asthetically pleasing office, and has been involved in purchasing and selling offices for over 20 years.

The key to success in my opinion is being a good business man. This is in any profession. A good business man can go into the field of ice cream and come out creating a multi-million dollar ice cream conglomerate. I think some of my fellow pre-dents look at themselves and see top students who deserve to be compensated for their intelligence. That once they get out of Stony Brook/Harvard/UCLA dental that they is going to be a dentist office fighting for him/her to give them 150,000 starting salary and it'll take flight from there. At the end of dental school, we're all going to be just business men/women. I don't go to my dentist because he went to the best dental school. I go to my dentist because he's an active member of the community, I've golfed with him, and he's an all around nice guy. He's created a solid brand around himself, one that makes people go to him over other dentists.

For those who are going to dental school because they love helping people, and get satisfaction out of that, I don't think dentistry is for you at this point. You could go work at Habitat For Humanity, not-for-profits, and make decent money for the rest of your life without getting into crazy debt. Getting into 400,000 dollars of debt because you "like making people feel better" is not a smart financial move.

Getting into debt because you enjoy the field but also acknowledge the challenge put in front of you is another thing entirely. I am entering dentistry because 1) I enjoy what I have seen about the field 2) Feel that I can create a solid brand around myself 3) want to be a CEO. Being a dentist in your own office is being a CEO. You have to control your Human Resource Department. You have to be in charge of your Finance division.

Sorry for the rant, but it just annoys me when people say "it's not worth it to go 350,000 in debt only to top out at 200,000 a year afterwards/i couldve been in another field and been at the same place."

if you're not satisfied with your position in life, its because you're not being the best business man you can be.

if you told me right now that im going to pay 300,000 to graduate dental school at 29, only to top out at making 200,000 for the rest of my life, i'd throw my books away now and head to wall street. dont you see how stupid of a financial investment that is? it boggles my mind why people would do that. but you know why i'm doing it? because I KNOW that as a CEO of my dental office I can make 400,000 a year. Not based on production, but by owning real estate, buying other offices/hiring in house specialists etc.

the dentist driving the ferrari down the street is not the one with the most production.

I pretty much agree with what you've said. Dentistry is definitely a business, and that's one of the reasons I'm going into dentistry. Business skills seem to be what separate dentists who are doing just "ok" from dentists who can likely pull in 400k+ a year like my dentist probably does. He owns his own buildings, has 16 opertories, 2 associates, and 10 hygienists. It is crazy. Like you said, he's created a brand for himself and people know his name and know he does quality work and they are willing to pay for it.

 

[yappy]

LOL. Sometimes I want to meet people off this network so bad. I dont disagree with most of what you're saying in principal - but you come off as so smug/naive.

You seem like you have it together - just go to a NY school to do wall street AND DS at the same time! That way you have no debt at all.

I have to be honest--...the dentist driving the ferrari down the street is not the one with the most production.

 

[John Durian]

the dentist driving the ferrari down the street is not the one with the most production.

Yeah, he's the one with the most debt...

 

[lnngu]

Make sure to mention all of your little theories during your interviews. In fact, you should take it upon yourself to write to the deans and adcoms of dental schools, who happen to hold care and compassion as core values of any health professions, and convince them of the error of their ways. But then again, are you really surprised? Those silly people got into academia when they could have better spent their time "building a brand, being CEOs and driving Ferraris."

Really, come back in a few years, and let us know how you did it. I'd love to hear it.
I get the feeling that life owes you a massive debt of reality and suspect/hope that when the payback date comes, you'll learn a little bit of humility.

 

[WhichRoom]

I have to be honest--I can understand why lots of dentists are surprised to see that they don't make a lot of money when they get out of dental school. I've shadowed a few dentists. I shadowed a guy who went to a very good dental school. He doesn't make much money. Not because he's a bad dentist, but because he's not a business man. No advertising, poor staff management skills, poorly maintained office. Another dentist I shadowed, went to an average/below average dental school. But he advertises like crazy, has an asthetically pleasing office, and has been involved in purchasing and selling offices for over 20 years.

The key to success in my opinion is being a good business man. This is in any profession. A good business man can go into the field of ice cream and come out creating a multi-million dollar ice cream conglomerate. I think some of my fellow pre-dents look at themselves and see top students who deserve to be compensated for their intelligence. That once they get out of Stony Brook/Harvard/UCLA dental that they is going to be a dentist office fighting for him/her to give them 150,000 starting salary and it'll take flight from there. At the end of dental school, we're all going to be just business men/women. I don't go to my dentist because he went to the best dental school. I go to my dentist because he's an active member of the community, I've golfed with him, and he's an all around nice guy. He's created a solid brand around himself, one that makes people go to him over other dentists.

For those who are going to dental school because they love helping people, and get satisfaction out of that, I don't think dentistry is for you at this point. You could go work at Habitat For Humanity, not-for-profits, and make decent money for the rest of your life without getting into crazy debt. Getting into 400,000 dollars of debt because you "like making people feel better" is not a smart financial move.

Getting into debt because you enjoy the field but also acknowledge the challenge put in front of you is another thing entirely. I am entering dentistry because 1) I enjoy what I have seen about the field 2) Feel that I can create a solid brand around myself 3) want to be a CEO. Being a dentist in your own office is being a CEO. You have to control your Human Resource Department. You have to be in charge of your Finance division.

Sorry for the rant, but it just annoys me when people say "it's not worth it to go 350,000 in debt only to top out at 200,000 a year afterwards/i couldve been in another field and been at the same place."

if you're not satisfied with your position in life, its because you're not being the best business man you can be.

if you told me right now that im going to pay 300,000 to graduate dental school at 29, only to top out at making 200,000 for the rest of my life, i'd throw my books away now and head to wall street. dont you see how stupid of a financial investment that is? it boggles my mind why people would do that. but you know why i'm doing it? because I KNOW that as a CEO of my dental office I can make 400,000 a year. Not based on production, but by owning real estate, buying other offices/hiring in house specialists etc.

the dentist driving the ferrari down the street is not the one with the most production.

You can't KNOW that

 

[nap5035]

Make sure to mention all of your little theories during your interviews. In fact, you should take it upon yourself to write to the deans and adcoms of dental schools, who happen to hold care and compassion as core values of any health professions, and convince them of the error of their ways. But then again, are you really surprised? Those silly people got into academia when they could have better spent their time "building a brand, being CEOs and driving Ferraris."

Really, come back in a few years, and let us know how you did it. I'd love to hear it.
I get the feeling that life owes you a massive debt of reality and suspect/hope that when the payback date comes, you'll learn a little bit of humility.

Inngu, this post was directed at people who post on here saying, DONT DO DENTISTRY-blah blah im suffocating in debt, its a debt trap, blah blah. they say they spent so much on school, and they're barely keeping their head above water.

from what i have seen through shadowing/family members, what makes the difference between successful dentists and sad struggling dentists is the way their BUSINESS is set up. i dont really know how you can argue with that.

all i'm saying is i think a lot of people get into dentistry because they like making people feel better. i think you should go into dentistry if you like making people feel better and you are business savvy.

sorry if you think thats a smug/naive attitude and yeah i'll come back in ten years and show you how it all worked out

 

[dentalWorks]

Inngu, this post was directed at people who post on here saying, DONT DO DENTISTRY-blah blah im suffocating in debt, its a debt trap, blah blah. they say they spent so much on school, and they're barely keeping their head above water.

from what i have seen through shadowing/family members, what makes the difference between successful dentists and sad struggling dentists is the way their BUSINESS is set up. i dont really know how you can argue with that.

all i'm saying is i think a lot of people get into dentistry because they like making people feel better. i think you should go into dentistry if you like making people feel better and you are business savvy.

sorry if you think thats a smug/naive attitude and yeah i'll come back in ten years and show you how it all worked out

that is NOT what you are saying at all....You've made it VERY clear that if you were to make "only" 200k, then you'd rather go work for wallstreet (lolz by the way)......

Do you have any idea how silly you sound? You say this and that about business yet it appears to me you've never worked a day in your life...... You can't comprehend the power of a 200k (EVEN IF YOU "DUG" A 400K OF DENTAL DEBT) by the way.... thats a great income-to-debt ratio Mr. Accounting

 

[nap5035]

Dworks above you said you'd take 400,000 to make 150,000 for the rest of your life. That may be fine for you but in my area (nyc) you can make 150,000 very easily doing lots of other things. You can rattle off stats about how accountants avg 35-50k a year which is fine but those numbers mean nothing here! The homeless guy on 59th st and lexington ave prob makes 35k a year (sarcasm). So yeah maybe you may think I'm looking down on certain numbers, its just that if I want to stay here forever, I hope to be making more than 150k a year till retirement, otherwise I think for me its a bad investment. That is all.

 

[armorshell]

Do you have any idea how silly you sound? You say this and that about business yet it appears to me you've never worked a day in your life...... You can't comprehend the power of a 200k (EVEN IF YOU "DUG" A 400K OF DENTAL DEBT) by the way.... thats a great income-to-debt ratio Mr. Accounting

Yeah, I mean is clearing $84,000 after taxes and debt service really too little for anyone? That's nearly double the pre-tax income for the average household, and you have a reasonably good chance to exceed that income level as a dentist.

 

[Wall2Wall]

Yeah, he's the one with the most debt...

What a rare find of a durian lover on the forum!

 

[slm266]

Relatives in my family have made an ortho chain that is the largest provider in the Dallas metroplex. It started off as one office and over time they continued to open more and more offices. They now have ~13 offices run by associate orthodontists and they run the company like a machine. Their system runs very efficiently and will continue to grow.

It's nice to fantasize as a predent and plan out a future of franchise/chain/opening multiple offices/etc... but we really have no idea how hard it is to get to that point. Many start out with that ambition but later settle because they live a comfortable life style and prefer time with the family that they'd rather not spend building an empire.

My advice is to find someone who has already accomplished your ambition and learn as much as you can.

 

[lnngu]

What a rare find of a durian lover on the forum!

And/or a scrubs fan...

 

[Jackson-Ave-Dental]

Who cares for what reason other people go into dentistry for...

As long as you are happy with your own reasoning then that is all that matters 🙂

 

[armorshell]

What a rare find of a durian lover on the forum!

The pho place I go to in Dallas has an awesome durian smoothie

 

[John Durian]

What a rare find of a durian lover on the forum!

And/or a scrubs fan...

Fan of both actually 😀

The pho place I go to in Dallas has an awesome durian smoothie

And yeah, dude. It's a staple with a bowl of pho or tit nuong 🙂. Or the 3 colored drink. Man *drools*

 

[alej1020]

To answer the question, no. Success is not measured entirely on money. If this is your priority then go to wall street and enjoy being a greedy bloodsucking a-hole.

 

[Odontos2015]

To answer the question, no. Success is not measured entirely on money. If this is your priority then go to wall street and enjoy being a greedy bloodsucking a-hole.

👍👍

I'd like to think my future success as a dentist will be measured by many other factors besides return on individual investment.

 

[lnngu]

To answer the question, no. Success is not measured entirely on money. If this is your priority then go to wall street and enjoy being a greedy bloodsucking a-hole.

👍👍

I'd like to think my future success as a dentist will be measured by many other factors besides return on individual investment.

👍👍👍

 

[youknowthedrill]

It doesn't matter what dental school you go to, or how great you are in business. Building a successful dental practice is about developing a relationship and building trust with your patients.

 

[peanutb123]

Dworks above you said you'd take 400,000 to make 150,000 for the rest of your life. That may be fine for you but in my area (nyc) you can make 150,000 very easily doing lots of other things. You can rattle off stats about how accountants avg 35-50k a year which is fine but those numbers mean nothing here! The homeless guy on 59th st and lexington ave prob makes 35k a year (sarcasm). So yeah maybe you may think I'm looking down on certain numbers, its just that if I want to stay here forever, I hope to be making more than 150k a year till retirement, otherwise I think for me its a bad investment. That is all.

Just to give you an idea. My boss, Boss(6th or 7th level down to ceo) makes around 150k. He is in mid 50's. BTW do you know how much it takes to get up there. One cannot just walk to wall street and be a money generator. I work in a fortune 500 company so i know a stat or 2.



First of all do you have any idea what 150k is like for a normal person w/ bach. or masters degree. I have seen my associates who have much more higher degree & project management courses and they are no where near to be a MANAGER. that's one level up to me. and they have been in the company since 20-30 years. These guys work really hard. its not that they dont make a great manager but those positions are already taken for many years. unless if you join a new company and have previous years experience of being the same level.

I have seen many arrogant college students who have good GPA's and good head on their shoulders make this statement "when i graduate I am not going to work for less than 80-100k" I used to laugh. Because, In the end they get so desperate to work for 40k. In some cases i have seen less.

This is a little window towards a real life for you my friend.

 

[preOMFS]

You have to be in charge of your Finance division.

I believe that would be a CFO (and besides, I think most dentists hire an accountant)... good luck with your plan wise and all-knowing one

 

[superspike]

To answer the question, no. Success is not measured entirely on money. If this is your priority then go to wall street and enjoy being a greedy bloodsucking a-hole.

Ok, that's getting a little out of line. Just like not ALL dentists are in it for the money, not ALL stock brokers and such are greedy bloodsucking aXXholes like you say.

I actually agree with you, guy who started this thread. You definitely need good business sense to succeed as a dentist, because there are getting to be many more dentists than needed in metro areas. And yeah, if you are only going into dentistry to "help people", which I think is a load of crap, you might as well start a career in philanthropy or join a non profit group.

 

[nap5035]

Just to give you an idea. My boss, Boss(6th or 7th level down to ceo) makes around 150k. He is in mid 50's. BTW do you know how much it takes to get up there. One cannot just walk to wall street and be a money generator. I work in a fortune 500 company so i know a stat or 2.



First of all do you have any idea what 150k is like for a normal person w/ bach. or masters degree. I have seen my associates who have much more higher degree & project management courses and they are no where near to be a MANAGER. that's one level up to me. and they have been in the company since 20-30 years. These guys work really hard. its not that they dont make a great manager but those positions are already taken for many years. unless if you join a new company and have previous years experience of being the same level.

I have seen many arrogant college students who have good GPA's and good head on their shoulders make this statement "when i graduate I am not going to work for less than 80-100k" I used to laugh. Because, In the end they get so desperate to work for 40k. In some cases i have seen less.

This is a little window towards a real life for you my friend.

cool story, man. you provided me with no information on what your company does or what industry it is in, i don't really know what you want me to say...you're right then?. 😕

http://www.bestplaces.net/col/?salary=150000&city1=52676460&city2=53651000

use this calculator to see what your salary would be if you moved to manhattan. dworks, since you thought my numbers were so outlandish, I compared our two cities. 150,000 in ny comes out to 75,000 for you. would you take out all that debt for 75k a year?

id take it out for 300k=you'd take it out for 150k

 

[7 Iron]

cool story, man. you provided me with no information on what your company does or what industry it is in, i don't really know what you want me to say...you're right then?. 😕

http://www.bestplaces.net/col/?salary=150000&city1=52676460&city2=53651000

use this calculator to see what your salary would be if you moved to manhattan. dworks, since you thought my numbers were so outlandish, I compared our two cities. 150,000 in ny comes out to 75,000 for you. would you take out all that debt for 75k a year?

id take it out for 300k=you'd take it out for 150k

But since everything is inflated at least 100% in NYC versus the rest of the nation, do starting dentists in NYC average ~150k or do they average ~300k? If the latter then it's a moot point.

 

[peanutb123]

Dworks above you said you'd take 400,000 to make 150,000 for the rest of your life. That may be fine for you but in my area (nyc) you can make 150,000 very easily doing lots of other things. You can rattle off stats about how accountants avg 35-50k a year which is fine but those numbers mean nothing here! The homeless guy on 59th st and lexington ave prob makes 35k a year (sarcasm). So yeah maybe you may think I'm looking down on certain numbers, its just that if I want to stay here forever, I hope to be making more than 150k a year till retirement, otherwise I think for me its a bad investment. That is all.

cool story, man. you provided me with no information on what your company does or what industry it is in, i don't really know what you want me to say...you're right then?. 😕

http://www.bestplaces.net/col/?salary=150000&city1=52676460&city2=53651000

use this calculator to see what your salary would be if you moved to manhattan. dworks, since you thought my numbers were so outlandish, I compared our two cities. 150,000 in ny comes out to 75,000 for you. would you take out all that debt for 75k a year?

id take it out for 300k=you'd take it out for 150k

1. All you need to know is its a fortune 500. and could possibly well be fortune 100.

2. The company is located Right next to manhatten. but the main branch is in manhatten as well has 4 other states.

3. THERE IS NO FIN way that anyone is gonna use a calculator which has no real use in real life. DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE THAT CALC is even accurate? if so do they provide anything to back up their claims.

4. This basically proves what dw said, you have no fin clue about what real life is like.

5. No one who is working right now is going to place their identity here. Risk of losing $ is greater than trying to prove a point to an entity that you really dont care about.

 

[alej1020]

Ok, that's getting a little out of line. Just like not ALL dentists are in it for the money, not ALL stock brokers and such are greedy bloodsucking aXXholes like you say.

I actually agree with you, guy who started this thread. You definitely need good business sense to succeed as a dentist, because there are getting to be many more dentists than needed in metro areas. And yeah, if you are only going into dentistry to "help people", which I think is a load of crap, you might as well start a career in philanthropy or join a non profit group.

Superspike if you were offended by my comment then I apologize, but I never mentioned that all the people that work at wallstreet are greedy. The exception I take about people that talk about the finances of dentistry honestly sicken me. We are all going to be alright perhaps some us won't be able to buy a ferrari, which I could honestly care less about, but we are going to make a lot of money independently. I can assure you that people with the dollar bill ingrained in their minds are the ones that will most likely jeopardize the the treatment of a patient or patients for the potential of making more money. We should be compensated for our job but we must first and foremost put the patient first. The less important things will come because of the service you have provided and the rapport you have created with your patient.

 

[nap5035]

1. All you need to know is its a fortune 500. and could possibly well be fortune 100.

2. The company is located Right next to manhatten. but the main branch is in manhatten as well has 4 other states.

3. THERE IS NO FIN way that anyone is gonna use a calculator which has no real use in real life. DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE THAT CALC is even accurate? if so do they provide anything to back up their claims.

4. This basically proves what dw said, you have no fin clue about what real life is like.

5. No one who is working right now is going to place their identity here. Risk of losing $ is greater than trying to prove a point to an entity that you really dont care about.

no real use in real life? BAHAHA! how do you think people's salaries get calculated when they relocate? obviously this isn't the "official calculator of the world" but any cost-of-living calculator you find will give you the same ballpark number

"hey jim we're gonna move you from kansas city to manhattan but keep you at the same salary because we haven't figured out how to run cost-of-living simulations, how does that sound?"

do you even hear yourself?

 

[321931]

Surprisingly, you make some good points about Dentistry being a business; however, you come across as incredibly naive/ignorant at the same time.

Therefore I give this thread a 5/10!

 

[peanutb123]

no real use in real life? BAHAHA! how do you think people's salaries get calculated when they relocate? obviously this isn't the "official calculator of the world" but any cost-of-living calculator you find will give you the same ballpark number

"hey jim we're gonna move you from kansas city to manhattan but keep you at the same salary because we haven't figured out how to run cost-of-living simulations, how does that sound?"

do you even hear yourself?

In real life this scenario would be played out like this:

Boss man: jim do you want to keep your job.
jim: yes sir.

boss man: jim I want you to fly every week to manhattan, We will pay for hotel and food, and also get you a subway pass. I want you to go to the manhatten office this monday.

Jim: phsss... that was close... Then jim packs his bags every week and flys to manhatten.

Boss man's boss: hey how is jim doing?

boss: he is doing great and we are saving a good amount of money instead of hiring someone over there.

boss man's boss: good job boss. Keep up the good work.


So moral of this script is if a company can pay you less and get away with it. You better believe, they gonna do it.

 

[Sunshine12]

Surprisingly, you make some good points about Dentistry being a business; however, you come across as incredibly naive/ignorant at the same time.

Therefore I give this thread a 5/10!

Are you kidding..its at least 6 🙄

 

[nap5035]

Surprisingly, you make some good points about Dentistry being a business; however, you come across as incredibly naive/ignorant at the same time.

Therefore I give this thread a 5/10!

you're entitled to that. I started this thread just to start conversation. With the way tuition has risen over the past decade, I think its something that everyone needs to think about. Hardly any of the 45-55 year old dentists I've spoken to graduated with any sizable debt, and most of them laugh at me when I tell them I'm considering taking out ~250,000 for dental school. So I don't really see why its so bad to look at it as an investment and say, "i'm gonna invest X much into this education and I would be disappointed if I only got back Y in return."

I know there are dentists in parts of the US that are making sub 100,000 and living a very nice life. but I do not think it is unfair to expect more than that if you live in an area that has a higher cost-of-living than other areas. I know 3 dentists less than 5 years out of dschool in ny that expect to hit close to 175-200k this year. and with their debt repayments, rent, and $15.00 for a coors light at a bar, I think that is fair. while that may sound arrogant to you, thats the same thing as saying you expect to hit 100-125k in certain rural parts of America.

 

[yappy]

So moral of this script is if a company can pay you less and get away with it. You better believe, they gonna do it.

Truth!

Another one to the OP:

If you want to max out that "Y" (return on investment) get out of NY ASAP or pay the premium in living expenses. In your scenario tuition is the red herring.

 

[peanutb123]

no real use in real life? BAHAHA! how do you think people's salaries get calculated when they relocate? obviously this isn't the "official calculator of the world" but any cost-of-living calculator you find will give you the same ballpark number

"hey jim we're gonna move you from kansas city to manhattan but keep you at the same salary because we haven't figured out how to run cost-of-living simulations, how does that sound?"

do you even hear yourself?

So this is how it work in big companies. SO lets say you have jim, lets give a title as tech support & lets assume he makes 50k with 10 years of experience in company A.

Suddenly Jim's freind get the same job in the same company but and have the same skills & same years of expereince but in Manhattan branch.

They will both be paid the same amount of money. Companies do not care about your cost of living b/c unlike dental schools No one likes to live right next to their company.

most of the people who work in Manhattan do not live up their, they live in jersey or somewhere in New york where cost of living is not expensive.

so according to you a person who works at mcdonals in Manhattan should get paid over 36k an year b/c cost of living in manhatten is really expensive.

The question my friend is do you hear yourself?

 

[nap5035]

So this is how it work in big companies. SO lets say you have jim, lets give a title as tech support & lets assume he makes 50k with 10 years of experience in company A.

Suddenly Jim's freind get the same job in the same company but and have the same skills & same years of expereince but in Manhattan branch.

They will both be paid the same amount of money. Companies do not care about your cost of living b/c unlike dental schools No one likes to live right next to their company.

most of the people who work in Manhattan do not live up their, they live in jersey or somewhere in New york where cost of living is not expensive.

so according to you a person who works at mcdonals in Manhattan should get paid over 36k an year b/c cost of living in manhatten is really expensive.

The question my friend is do you hear yourself?

I don't know what to tell you, 50 cent. If you're going to tell me that entry level finance positions in Manhattan do not offer a higher salary than the same position in their Philadelphia office, then I don't want to argue anymore. I literally went through the process this summer. The same positions at BlackRock and JPMorgan were offered at a 25k discount if you went to Philadelphia.

I hated the culture, people, and environment and never tapped into the sciences like I wanted to before I went to college, so here I am doing a post-bacc.

 

[peanutb123]

I don't know what to tell you, 50 cent. If you're going to tell me that entry level finance positions in Manhattan do not offer a higher salary than the same position in their Philadelphia office, then I don't want to argue anymore. I literally went through the process this summer. The same positions at BlackRock and JPMorgan were offered at a 25k discount if you went to Philadelphia.

I hated the culture, people, and environment and never tapped into the sciences like I wanted to before I went to college, so here I am doing a post-bacc.

SO how much were they starting you out in phili & Manhattan

 

[nap5035]

SO how much were they starting you out in phili & Manhattan

$70K plus 10K signing bonus in manhattan
$50K plus 5K signing bonus in philly

 

[peanutb123]

$70K plus 10K signing bonus in manhattan
$50K plus 5K signing bonus in philly

both companies offered you the same?

 

[dentalWorks]

cool story, man. you provided me with no information on what your company does or what industry it is in, i don't really know what you want me to say...you're right then?. 😕

http://www.bestplaces.net/col/?salary=150000&city1=52676460&city2=53651000

use this calculator to see what your salary would be if you moved to manhattan. dworks, since you thought my numbers were so outlandish, I compared our two cities. 150,000 in ny comes out to 75,000 for you. would you take out all that debt for 75k a year?

id take it out for 300k=you'd take it out for 150k

Its that time again.... lets use some common sense.

Lets for a second pretend that living-estimator is correct.... WOULDN'T THE BEST FINANCIAL DECISION BE TO MOVE AWAY FROM A CITY THAT HAMMERS YOUR INCOME BY HALF TO A CITY AND OFFERS YOU MORE (like sterling heights michigan ~ as an example) ??????? I mean after all, you are here "edge-ma-kating" us on running successful dental practices... would the smart-business move be to move to an area that practically... double your salary???

But since everything is inflated at least 100% in NYC versus the rest of the nation, do starting dentists in NYC average ~150k or do they average ~300k? If the latter then it's a moot point.

In fact the opposite... NYC is soooo over populated with dentists... they are ranked amongst some of the lowest starting dental salaries around (I've heard figures as low as 70k-90k per year). Pretty low for a first year associate.....

 

[nap5035]

both companies offered you the same?

that was BlackRock.

you see what i'm saying though? i actually dont even remember what we're arguing about anymore haha

 

[emericana]

that was BlackRock.

you see what i'm saying though? i actually dont even remember what we're arguing about anymore haha

To be successful in the real world is to be successful in business. It doesnt matter if you are talking about medicine, science, engineering, real estate.... etc.

You learn a skill in school and then apply it in the real world using business skills that you either naturally have or learn on the job/suppliment with a MBA.

Why do you think that so many PhD's are dead broke? Because they stay in academia and have no business skills. The few PhD's (atleast in biomedical science... engineering is a tad bit different) who do have business skills start biotech companies which are potentially worth billions.

 

[nap5035]

Its that time again.... lets use some common sense.

Lets for a second pretend that living-estimator is correct.... WOULDN'T THE BEST FINANCIAL DECISION BE TO MOVE AWAY FROM A CITY THAT HAMMERS YOUR INCOME BY HALF TO A CITY AND OFFERS YOU MORE (like sterling heights michigan ~ as an example) ??????? I mean after all, you are here "edge-ma-kating" us on running successful dental practices... would the smart-business move be to move to an area that practically... double your salary???



In fact the opposite... NYC is soooo over populated with dentists... they are ranked amongst some of the lowest starting dental salaries around (I've heard figures as low as 70k-90k per year). Pretty low for a first year associate.....

if you couldn't hit 300k in new york yeah it would make sense to move to away. but if you could, you'd have the same quality of life as someone making 150k in the suburbs of detroit, which is all I have been saying.

 

[lnngu]

Ok, that's getting a little out of line. Just like not ALL dentists are in it for the money, not ALL stock brokers and such are greedy bloodsucking aXXholes like you say.

I actually agree with you, guy who started this thread. You definitely need good business sense to succeed as a dentist, because there are getting to be many more dentists than needed in metro areas. And yeah, if you are only going into dentistry to "help people", which I think is a load of crap, you might as well start a career in philanthropy or join a non profit group.

Yes, running a dental office is at its basis a business. However, because peoples' health are involved, it can never be JUST a business.

If the only thing that matters to you is dollars and cents, then I will posit that you are getting into the wrong field.

 

[dentalWorks]

if you couldn't hit 300k in new york yeah it would make sense to move to away. but if you could, you'd have the same quality of life as someone making 150k in the suburbs of detroit, which is all I have been saying.

not exactly.... your initial post is making this argument that dentists should be business savvy.... whats the #1 rule you hear amongst entrepreneurs?

Its the same thing you hear with real-estate: Location Location Location. If you are a successful businessman/woman then the location of where you start your "CEO-empire" has to be perfect. NYC hardly qualifies as a perfect place to start such endeavor especially when it comes to GPs.

I do wish you best of luck, but I don't think you'll be hitting 300k in NYC on your own for a VERY long time to come.

 

[nap5035]

not exactly.... your initial post is making this argument that dentists should be business savvy.... whats the #1 rule you hear amongst entrepreneurs?

Its the same thing you hear with real-estate: Location Location Location. If you are a successful businessman/woman then the location of where you start your "CEO-empire" has to be perfect. NYC hardly qualifies as a perfect place to start such endeavor especially when it comes to GPs.

I do wish you best of luck, but I don't think you'll be hitting 300k in NYC on your own for a VERY long time to come.

ok, man. good luck with your endeavors