Is college counseling always a lower income sentence?

[The Cinnabon]

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Always been semi-interested in the work of psychologists that work in campus counseling centers. Have not heard good things about the pay, is there any real variability to it at all?

 

[Ollie123]

I mean, there is obviously some variability. On average though, it is definitely one of the lower-paying settings and you can almost certainly make more elsewhere. Even the directors seem to make equal or less than staff positions in other settings from what I've been able to tell. University benefits can help mitigate this slightly as they tend to be better-than-average, but nowhere near enough. It did seem a relatively chill gig with a modest caseload, especially over summers but the director only made marginally more than I did in my very first job and was 20+ years out.

To each their own. It can be an interesting setting/population, but I don't think worth it. Lots of churn in nearly every CC I've seen with people using it as a stepping stone vs staying long-term.

 

[summerbabe]

A private institution which has the ability to set pay independently per position could potentially pay on the higher end of CC salaries.

Then again, when I worked a student affairs job for my liberal arts undergrad after graduating, the pay for staff was generally pretty terrible despite charging massive amounts for tuition. But benefits such as a strong 403b match, health insurance and subsidized tuition for children of staff were very good.

We did have super chill summers since students were only enrolled for Fall and Spring terms so that was a nice perk.

A downside is that mental health needs have increased recently and from the couple of people I know who worked CC (but not for long), case loads have increased in size and acuity and on-call utilization has increased.

 

[PsychPhDone]

I've never seen good pay in uccs, though I've not looked that hard. Especially considering the hours often worked and outreach etc. Wth that said, if I were putting kids though college and they had tuition benefits I could see that alone justifying a few year stint.

It's a shame, as I really enjoyed many aspects of it and the age group when I did practicum there. I was definitely more on the evidence based side than most there but found it more tolerable coexisting than I expected.

 

[Sanman]

I have never seen good pay and the lifestyle has taken a dive as students come in with more serious MH concerns now and most depts are underfunded. Seemed like a chill gig 20+ years ago.

 

[MiniLop]

I have never seen good pay and the lifestyle has taken a dive as students come in with more serious MH concerns now and most depts are underfunded. Seemed like a chill gig 20+ years ago.

Any theories on why the acuity of presentations at CCCs has been increasing? Difficulty finding treatment elsewhere? Increased willingness to seek treatment? More folks attending college in general ergo more people with high acuity presentations? I'm sure lots of ink has been spilled about this, but I haven't seen it.

 

[Ollie123]

I don't have any numbers to back me up, but I'd suspect it is largely driven by enrollment numbers and a seemingly increasing percentage of therapists opting out of insurance (which is effectively "difficulty finding treatment elsewhere").

I'm doubtful the increased willingness to seek treatment had a profound effect for high-acuity cases, at least not enough to explain here. While stigma unquestionably has an impact, I think the biggest change has been for low-acuity cases. The stigma is no longer there for "Going to talk to someone" when you are going through a rough patch and it is no longer perceived as a sign that you are "crazy." Active suicidality, florid psychosis, etc. were generally pushed into treatment before out of necessity, regardless of stigma. Not that this shift in stigma hasn't had an impact for those folks, just that there was less room for it to impact treatment-seeking behavior.

Of course, I think one of the challenging of CCs is that you are getting both high and low acuity, often with little power to dictate your caseload from what I've heard from folks in those settings. So you end up high acuity cases that can't receive proper attention because you are flooded with "I'm a little stressed about my mid-terms" cases and the university decrees all must be seen.

Caveat that I did one prac in a CC like 10 years ago,. I have a couple acquaintances/friends in that setting I keep in loose touch with so I've heard some. So this is mostly guesswork/armchair analytics on my part, don't take me too seriously.

Will be interesting to see how this plays out now that enrollment numbers are dropping and funding is tightening significantly at many universities.

 

[Sanman]

Any theories on why the acuity of presentations at CCCs has been increasing? Difficulty finding treatment elsewhere? Increased willingness to seek treatment? More folks attending college in general ergo more people with high acuity presentations? I'm sure lots of ink has been spilled about this, but I haven't seen it.

All of that plus more SES stratification and skyrocketing financial burdens as tuition rises. A place like Harvard or Princeton may be well funded and be a nice place to work due having an intelligent student pop of high means. Most University gigs will not be that. One high profile public uni I attended had a huge counseling center (30+ staff and trainees) and a lot grade stress due to the school's high academic ranking. Another public university where I rotated in grad school had a tiny counseling center with 8-10 staff and trainees for a much larger student pop and a lot more substance abuse, financial issues, and real MH needs with no other insurance. The link below gives a more comprehensive view.

Increased Rates of Mental Health Service Utilization by U.S. College Students: 10-Year Population-Level Trends (2007–2017)

 

[PsychPhDone]

Any theories on why the acuity of presentations at CCCs has been increasing? Difficulty finding treatment elsewhere? Increased willingness to seek treatment? More folks attending college in general ergo more people with high acuity presentations? I'm sure lots of ink has been spilled about this, but I haven't seen it.

I don't have a theory personally and my UCC practicum was over a decade ago now but wow I saw the highest level of psychopathology in all my career there (and I work in a VA now.) Was basically a first episode clinic.

 

[futureapppsy2]

Any theories on why the acuity of presentations at CCCs has been increasing? Difficulty finding treatment elsewhere? Increased willingness to seek treatment? More folks attending college in general ergo more people with high acuity presentations? I'm sure lots of ink has been spilled about this, but I haven't seen it.

I think part of it might be that more mental illnesses are treatable to functionality and k-12 accommodations are better, so kids that might have dropped out of high school or not gone to college in earlier generations with prodromal mental health symptoms are able to be functional enough to go to college, where the added stress can often push them into a full-blown active disease state. FWIW, one of my fellow post-docs did first episode psychosis work, and she found that, upon interview, a lot of the early-20s first episode patients had been prodromal for years prior to the episode, but the families were just keeping it below psychosis. Same type of deal with depression, etc--in most households/schools, there's enough support that these kids can function okay with symptoms/prodromal stuff, but the stress of going away to school often changes that equation.

 

[Ollie123]

I think part of it might be that more mental illnesses are treatable to functionality and k-12 accommodations are better, so kids that might have dropped out of high school or not gone to college in earlier generations with prodromal mental health symptoms are able to be functional enough to go to college, where the added stress can often push them into a full-blown active disease state. FWIW, one of my fellow post-docs did first episode psychosis work, and she found that, upon interview, a lot of the early-20s first episode patients had been prodromal for years prior to the episode, but the families were just keeping it below psychosis. Same type of deal with depression, etc--in most households/schools, there's enough support that these kids can function okay with symptoms/prodromal stuff, but the stress of going away to school often changes that equation.

This is a really interesting point I hadn't considered. Basically we (as treatment providers and as a society) have gotten better at keeping people teetering on the edge up until a life transition adds stressors and (potentially) pulls the support system out.

Seems plausible. Again, will be curious to see how this shakes out with enrollment changes. Are these the folks now opting out of college? I'd actually guess not, but I haven't seen good data yet on characteristics of the group no longer pursuing college that normally would have done so.

 

[futureapppsy2]

Seems plausible. Again, will be curious to see how this shakes out with enrollment changes. Are these the folks now opting out of college? I'd actually guess not, but I haven't seen good data yet on characteristics of the group no longer pursuing college that normally would have done so.

The enrollment changes are more likely a combination of the birth rate decline and the increasing costs of post-secondary ed/people opts to try without college for a bit and see how they do, IMO (and the data supports this as well).

 

[cara susanna]

Quite a few VA people that I know switched from UCCs.

 

[VirginiaIsForLovers]

Pay is generally lower than other settings. Just like most jobs, in larger cities the pay is a little better. UCC's typically are not looking at clinical productivity numbers, since most are not billing for their services. Therefore UCC's are not making money and caseloads are lighter (not to be confused with acuity). A lot of the clinical work is brief and higher acuity. A lot of counseling centers contract out individual psychotherapy to those students with lower acuity to companies like TimelyCare.

I've practiced at UCC's before and staff usually there is a lot of diversity in your clinical work (20-25 hours): intakes; individual therapy; groups; and walk-in hours. Then you have built in admin time, consultation, supervision, outreach hours, and lunch. During Winter Break; Spring Break; and Summer it gets really slow, and I've been at UCC's where we decreased the number of staff coming in.

 

[seriouslyphd]

Graduate student at a state university. An absolutely stellar clinician, leader, and clinical director was being paid 55k just a couple of years ago at our UCC. They left to work at an AMC and now make double their salary.

 

[The Cinnabon]

Graduate student at a state university. An absolutely stellar clinician, leader, and clinical director was being paid 55k just a couple of years ago at our UCC. They left to work at an AMC and now make double their salary.

That's less than I make ... as an RA at a VAMC. How on earth is that justified?

 

[Sanman]

Graduate student at a state university. An absolutely stellar clinician, leader, and clinical director was being paid 55k just a couple of years ago at our UCC. They left to work at an AMC and now make double their salary.

Fairly terrible, I made this as an unlicensed post-doc. That is definitely lower than I have seen recently, but not by a lot. I make multiples of that.

 

[smalltownpsych]

I think part of it might be that more mental illnesses are treatable to functionality and k-12 accommodations are better, so kids that might have dropped out of high school or not gone to college in earlier generations with prodromal mental health symptoms are able to be functional enough to go to college, where the added stress can often push them into a full-blown active disease state. FWIW, one of my fellow post-docs did first episode psychosis work, and she found that, upon interview, a lot of the early-20s first episode patients had been prodromal for years prior to the episode, but the families were just keeping it below psychosis. Same type of deal with depression, etc--in most households/schools, there's enough support that these kids can function okay with symptoms/prodromal stuff, but the stress of going away to school often changes that equation.

This was exactly what I was thinking and a big part of my focus is on the college age population who have had treatment for a long time for serious and chronic conditions. Too few recognize the direct causal role that life transitions and increase in stress has on pre-existing mental health conditions. We also miss how much support is provided by the level of external structure and availability of social support. Many of my patients have a really tough time making friends so they need to be able to hang out at our office a bit more than the average kid.

 

[Ollie123]

That's less than I make ... as an RA at a VAMC. How on earth is that justified?

Great question. Equally great question is why people take it.

My post-docs make 60k and we're discussing increasing that center-wide. Admittedly they don't get "all" the university benefits with that title, but still. A CC gig was never in the cards for me for multiple reasons, but it always baffled me people took roles like those instead of staying post-docs. Barring situations where money is simply <NOT> a consideration at all, but most of the staff at the CCs I am familiar with were not people with exceptionally wealthy spouses/families.

 

[The Cinnabon]

Great question. Equally great question is why people take it.

My post-docs make 60k and we're discussing increasing that center-wide. Admittedly they don't get "all" the university benefits with that title, but still. A CC gig was never in the cards for me for multiple reasons, but it always baffled me people took roles like those instead of staying post-docs. Barring situations where money is simply <NOT> a consideration at all, but most of the staff at the CCs I am familiar with were not people with exceptionally wealthy spouses/families.

Quite a shame, seems like a fun population to work with, but the money at these places is almost beyond criminal for the amount of schooling required to get to that point. Somedays I already feel a bit behind/shafted when my friends ahead of me in education/training like in a medical residency are talking about low starting numbers from recruiters such as ... 350K.

 

[summerbabe]

Equally great question is why people take it.

Having worked in a non-mental health role at a liberal arts college for 4 years before grad school, it was by far the most collegial and fun atmosphere in terms of coworker interactions and general lack of pressure regarding things like productivity and metrics.

Generally speaking, we were treated like adults and given a lot of autonomy with usually minor micromanagement. You know what you basically need to do and as long as you're a pleasant person who's in the ballpark with your professional work, nobody is giving you a hard time.

Plus, college towns can be fun places to live in, especially non-metros where the college brings in a lot of entertainment and culture to your doorstep for free.

And working with young adults in mental health can be a big plus compared to some of the people in my VA caseload (individuals in their 50s and 60s who most likely will never be open to the types of changes they need to make but will absolutely continue to utilize mental health services regularly).

But man does that pay suck! I left in 2011 but the most I made was around $26,000 for a full-time role in student affairs. But I was still in the undergrad mindset and sharing a cheap rental house with 5 good friends in a super cheap area so I was able to cover my expenses, have money for fun things like outdoor trips, and start my undergrad loan payments.

Then again, I'd also say the same thing for teachers, people who do front line work for non-profits, EMTs, etc.

 

[Sanman]

Quite a shame, seems like a fun population to work with, but the money at these places is almost beyond criminal for the amount of schooling required to get to that point. Somedays I already feel a bit behind/shafted when my friends ahead of me in education/training like in a medical residency are talking about low starting numbers from recruiters such as ... 350K.

Well, don't ever expect phone calls in that ballpark in this field unless you are prescribing. There are no w-2 gigs for that kind of money.

 

[Sanman]

Having worked in a non-mental health role at a liberal arts college for 4 years before grad school, it was by far the most collegial and fun atmosphere in terms of coworker interactions and general lack of pressure regarding things like productivity and metrics.

Generally speaking, we were treated like adults and given a lot of autonomy with usually minor micromanagement. You know what you basically need to do and as long as you're a pleasant person who's in the ballpark with your professional work, nobody is giving you a hard time.

Plus, college towns can be fun places to live in, especially non-metros where the college brings in a lot of entertainment and culture to your doorstep for free.

And working with young adults in mental health can be a big plus compared to some of the people in my VA caseload (individuals in their 50s and 60s who most likely will never be open to the types of changes they need to make but will absolutely continue to utilize mental health services regularly).

But man does that pay suck! I left in 2011 but the most I made was around $26,000 for a full-time role in student affairs. But I was still in the undergrad mindset and sharing a cheap rental house with 5 good friends in a super cheap area so I was able to cover my expenses, have money for fun things like outdoor trips, and start my undergrad loan payments.

Then again, I'd also say the same thing for teachers, people who do front line work for non-profits, EMTs, etc.

I have a friend with an academic PhD who works in the academic affairs. Nice gig except for the pay...but he has a trust fund and no kids.

 

[The Cinnabon]

Well, don't ever expect phone calls in that ballpark in this field unless you are prescribing. There are no w-2 gigs for that kind of money.

I know some soft money people in our field at AMCs can get close to that number ... but they all work like dogs to get there.

All bets seem to be off in forensics PP. I've heard of people making enough to make surgeons blush, but they do seem like the extreme exceptions.

 

[calimich]

Several of my colleagues started at UCCs, most have moved around, some have left UCC work, some have gone to the VA. I interned and postdoc'd at one and was open to staying. I enjoyed the variety of the clinical work, the students, the focus on education and training, the integrated care model (we were in the same building as the campus medical center), my colleagues, the hours, the access to university events, and the overall location. Not so great was the bureaucracy inherent in a large system, the somewhat competing interests re: image vs. reality of campus mental health, and unrealistic expectations from non-mental health campus leadership.
Pay was ~90k iirc about 8 years ago, in a high COL area. Not terrible, but still could be tough for some to make it out here on that salary.

For reference here are current openings (type psychologist into the search bar) $104-125k

 

[Sanman]

I know some soft money people in our field at AMCs can get close to that number ... but they all work like dogs to get there.

All bets seem to be off in forensics PP. I've heard of people making enough to make surgeons blush, but they do seem like the extreme exceptions.

I know folks that could make neurosurgeons blush, but none of them are w-2 gigs with recruiters calling. More like the business owners the recruiters are calling you for...

 

[The Cinnabon]

Several of my colleagues started at UCCs, most have moved around, some have left UCC work, some have gone to the VA. I interned and postdoc'd at one and was open to staying. I enjoyed the variety of the clinical work, the students, the focus on education and training, the integrated care model (we were in the same building as the campus medical center), my colleagues, the hours, the access to university events, and the overall location. Not so great was the bureaucracy inherent in a large system, the somewhat competing interests re: image vs. reality of campus mental health, and unrealistic expectations from non-mental health campus leadership.
Pay was ~90k iirc about 8 years ago, in a high COL area. Not terrible, but still could be tough for some to make it out here on that salary.

For reference here are current openings (type psychologist into the search bar) $104-125k

125K max in the Bay area is not something most could swallow, unless you were independently wealthy.

 

[The Cinnabon]

I know folks that could make neurosurgeons blush, but none of them are w-2 gigs with recruiters calling. More like the business owners the recruiters are calling you for...

Are these numbers all forensics numbers?

 

[Sanman]

Are these numbers all forensics numbers?

No, owners of large group practices. You know, those guys offering you 50% splits.

 

[Sanman]

125K max in the Bay area is not something most could swallow, unless you were independently wealthy.

An error has occurred.


Here is one at UC Berkeley for $85-125k and plenty of responsibility.

 

[PsyDr]

Does anyone know why universities have UCCs? Is there a federal mandate? Is it just a service to retain enrollment numbers? Something else?

Usually it is important to know why you are being hired.

 

[Ollie123]

I know some soft money people in our field at AMCs can get close to that number ... but they all work like dogs to get there.

All bets seem to be off in forensics PP. I've heard of people making enough to make surgeons blush, but they do seem like the extreme exceptions.

350 is quite high-end even for AMCs and usually doesn't happen without leadership roles. 200-250 is pretty standard for full profs though. I think I've only had one full prof on my grants below the NIH salary cap (currently 212k) and it was only below it by a hair (and in an area with a relatively modest COL).

Does anyone know why universities have UCCs? Is there a federal mandate? Is it just a service to retain enrollment numbers? Something else?

Usually it is important to know why you are being hired.

This is a great question and one I've wondered myself, albeit not enough to actually look into. I think the answer will play a key role in determining how "under threat" these positions are as university budgets tighten up.

 

[The Cinnabon]

Does anyone know why universities have UCCs? Is there a federal mandate? Is it just a service to retain enrollment numbers? Something else?

Usually it is important to know why you are being hired.

I googled this for 2 minutes while waiting in line for lunch so I'm basically an expert now.

Looks like it's a way to keep retention and boost performance metrics. Doesn't seem to be a federal mandate as it seems like most universities globally have counseling centers or that it's a standard.

Part of me now wonders if it all started at one the ivy leagues back in the day because rich parents were worried one of their kids that struggles with SMI wouldn't be able to handle all the new stressors and transitions ... and said Ivy league actually having the money to create a counseling center with counselors on call. I will now await someone who actually knows something on this topic to chime in and say the actual reasons.

 

[Sanman]

I googled this for 2 minutes while waiting in line for lunch so I'm basically an expert now.

Looks like it's a way to keep retention and boost performance metrics. Doesn't seem to be a federal mandate as it seems like most universities globally have counseling centers or that it's a standard.

Part of me now wonders if it all started at one the ivy leagues back in the day because rich parents were worried one of their kids that struggles with SMI wouldn't be able to handle all the new stressors and transitions ... and said Ivy league actually having the money to create a counseling center with counselors on call. I will now await someone who actually knows something on this topic to chime in and say the actual reasons.

Great, so that means they can keep one guy in a basement for $50k and advertise they have a college counseling center.

 

[cara susanna]

I have a friend who spent their entire training preparing for a UCC career. Prac, internship, and post doc at UCCs. They are now at the VA because the financial situation was just untenable.

 

[calimich]

I have a friend who spent their entire training preparing for a UCC career. Prac, internship, and post doc at UCCs. They are now at the VA because the financial situation was just untenable.

We might have the same friend

 

[summerbabe]

Does anyone know why universities have UCCs? Is there a federal mandate? Is it just a service to retain enrollment numbers? Something else?

In short, liability. Especially if you are offering room & board to the student body.

A larger answer is that schools are really into competing with 'peer institutions' and don't want to look bad by not offering something that's available at peer institutions as they compete for many of the same students (e.g., pointing out all the shiny buildings and services on those guided campus tours).

I'm not aware of any mandates specifically but it's very possible that having some type of counseling and healthcare presence on campus could be written into regional/national accreditation standards for schools to remain in good standing.

 

[Sanman]

We might have the same friend

Shocking, I have that friend from grad school too. It is amazing the number of folks that commit to a doctoral degree without looking at a salary survey.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

History... though this can warrant more fact-checking if desired

One hundred years of college mental health - PubMed

Although the first student health service is credited to Amherst College in 1861, almost 50 years passed before Princeton University established the first mental health service in 1910. At that time, a psychiatrist was hired to help with student personality development. Although other schools...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[MCParent]

Great, so that means they can keep one guy in a basement for $50k and advertise they have a college counseling center.

There are colleges where this is fully what happens. Not particularly small ones either.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

I'm not sure, but I wonder if part of the reason the pay is low is because once upon a time, in addition to being lower acuity, the positions were thought of as more part-time with the opportunity to do something else, and then the pay never kept up with the increasing responsibility? That, and the general salary depression that unfortunately can occur in academia (outside of administration and football coaches).

 

[MCParent]

I'm not sure, but I wonder if part of the reason the pay is low is because once upon a time, in addition to being lower acuity, the positions were thought of as more part-time with the opportunity to do something else, and then the pay never kept up with the increasing responsibility? That, and the general salary depression that unfortunately can occur in academia (outside of administration and football coaches).

I think a lot of places used to let staff run after hours PPs out of the university CCs. I can’t imagine the liability problems with that.

I think UCCs used to be pretty safe, secure, stable jobs with decent benefits. For a person who wants to do counseling but doesn’t want to or doesn’t know how to manage a private practice I guess that could be appealing. In my own mind I would probably be more likely to think, hey maybe that’s a skill I could learn if it doubles or triples my pay.

I also think, combined with that, UCCs also used to be pretty safe havens for running a basic interpretation of rogerian therapy. I recall staff during my training who saw students through their entire 4 years of college, when the folks didn’t really have anything going on MH-wise. Even when session limits were brought in I’m aware that some places let staff skip the limits for a some clients (imo the decision was not based on clinical need, that I saw), or a request to extend session limits was just rubber-stamped. In one training clinic I was at (which no longer exists) there was pretty heavy resistance to doing cbt or to reading research about client conditions.

I would imagine administration is even more of a pain than it was when I trained at a UCC, with people who have no clue about clinical work making mandates. I remember one time a decision came from on high that the UCC can’t see anyone who “might become suicidal.” Obviously I don’t need to explain the problems with that on this forum, but they were lost on the admin. I would also be pretty skittish about working at one in Texas or Florida, where i think it’s possible that staff will have to declare that they aren’t conducting lgbtq+ affirming treatment, aren’t addressing mh implications of systemic racism, etc. in the not distant future.

 

[PsyDr]

I think a lot of places used to let staff run after hours PPs out of the university CCs. I can’t imagine the liability problems with that.

There is no "let" people run their own PP. Outside of work hours, you are free to do anything you want with your time. If the employer wants you to be on call, they are bound to compensate you for being on call. Medicine has established that.

 

[MCParent]

There is no "let" people run their own PP. Outside of work hours, you are free to do anything you want with your time. If the employer wants you to be on call, they are bound to compensate you for being on call. Medicine has established that.

Sorry—then them run the pp in the UCC offices. I just woke up when I wrote that 😂

 

[Sanman]

I think a lot of places used to let staff run after hours PPs out of the university CCs. I can’t imagine the liability problems with that.

I think UCCs used to be pretty safe, secure, stable jobs with decent benefits. For a person who wants to do counseling but doesn’t want to or doesn’t know how to manage a private practice I guess that could be appealing. In my own mind I would probably be more likely to think, hey maybe that’s a skill I could learn if it doubles or triples my pay.

I also think, combined with that, UCCs also used to be pretty safe havens for running a basic interpretation of rogerian therapy. I recall staff during my training who saw students through their entire 4 years of college, when the folks didn’t really have anything going on MH-wise. Even when session limits were brought in I’m aware that some places let staff skip the limits for a some clients (imo the decision was not based on clinical need, that I saw), or a request to extend session limits was just rubber-stamped. In one training clinic I was at (which no longer exists) there was pretty heavy resistance to doing cbt or to reading research about client conditions.

I would imagine administration is even more of a pain than it was when I trained at a UCC, with people who have no clue about clinical work making mandates. I remember one time a decision came from on high that the UCC can’t see anyone who “might become suicidal.” Obviously I don’t need to explain the problems with that on this forum, but they were lost on the admin. I would also be pretty skittish about working at one in Texas or Florida, where i think it’s possible that staff will have to declare that they aren’t conducting lgbtq+ affirming treatment, aren’t addressing mh implications of systemic racism, etc. in the not distant future.

That sounds amazing! Let me just cancel all of my appts and still collect a salary. Maybe that is just my malicious compliance side speaking. I always assumed that the historical draw to the gig was only having to work with YAVIS patients.

That said, I hear a lot apologizing/reasoning for the low pay. I just assume it is an artifact of the person paying for the care not actually receiving the services. It isn't like any of these colleges forgot to raise their President's pay. The president of my public undergrad was pulling down $500k 20 years ago (and sitting on multiple corporate boards of companies that services the campus at the same time).

 

[MCParent]

That sounds amazing! Let me just cancel all of my appts and still collect a salary. Maybe that is just my malicious compliance side speaking. I always assumed that the historical draw to the gig was only having to work with YAVIS patients.

That said, I hear a lot apologizing/reasoning for the low pay. I just assume it is an artifact of the person paying for the care not actually receiving the services. It isn't like any of these colleges forgot to raise their President's pay. The president of my public undergrad was pulling down $500k 20 years ago (and sitting on multiple corporate boards of companies that services the campus at the same time).

I think where it’s been allowed it has always been after hours.

So yeah meet a client at 8pm when no one else is in the building. What could go wrong?

 

[The Cinnabon]

There is no "let" people run their own PP. Outside of work hours, you are free to do anything you want with your time. If the employer wants you to be on call, they are bound to compensate you for being on call. Medicine has established that.

There's a greater conversation to be had here, but I truly wonder how the field Is allowing themselves to be "on call" for like 70K a year? I know this isn't the norm, and most of you elders are doing quite well.

It just seems so odd when places like UCSF's AMC are forced to pay psychs WAY more than the average AMC and yet UCSF isn't exactly going bankrupt. Wishful thinking but it would be nice to have my cake and it in the field.

EDIT: UCSF doesn't seem to pay as much as their higher bands go (I straight up couldn't find many people pulling in the higher numbers on their pay scale after googling the public salary info.)

 

[ela]

Former staff psychologist at LARGE UCC in high cost of living location...best pay I had seen in a UCC and hovered around $120k. Great benefits. Including time off d/t school closures etc. VERY high acuity and variability, always pushing against session limits for complex cases. Wonderful colleagues. Amazing being part of the larger campus community w. attendant amenities (libraries, lectures, gallerys to walk to during lunch, gyms etc. Motivated and intelligent clients, with rampant personality disorders?

 

[The Cinnabon]

Former staff psychologist at LARGE UCC in high cost of living location...best pay I had seen in a UCC and hovered around $120k. Great benefits. Including time off d/t school closures etc. VERY high acuity and variability, always pushing against session limits for complex cases. Wonderful colleagues. Amazing being part of the larger campus community w. attendant amenities (libraries, lectures, gallerys to walk to during lunch, gyms etc. Motivated and intelligent clients, with rampant personality disorders?

This seems like California. UCLA pays their UCC staff psychologists about as well as their AMC, albeit still far below what they should be making given SoCal's COL.

 

[PsyDr]

Sorry—then them run the pp in the UCC offices. I just woke up when I wrote that 😂

My bad. Sorry, I get a bit ardent when people are not getting paid.

There's a greater conversation to be had here, but I truly wonder how the field Is allowing themselves to be "on call" for like 70K a year? I know this isn't the norm, and most of you elders are doing quite well.

Because we are not having regular conversations about it. And we are not using the federal terms, like "on call".