Is course difficulty a factor?

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Chocolato

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So I as having a discussion with a friend, and he said that med schools look favorably upon you if you take lots of hard science classes and don't look favorably on people who major in something else like a non science and just take the bare minimum pre-reqs. But from what I've been told, majors and the courses you take isn't a factor in med schools decision, but my friend (an engineering major) insists otherwise. After all, it does make sense that someone who is an engineer major takes lots of difficult courses as opposed to someone who takes an easier courseload so it should seem med schools might give them "bonus points" for taking a harder courseload and having a harder major. So what really does med schools look in involving the difficulty courseloads/major in the admissions process? Does someone who take quantum physics and advanced sciences have an advantage in the admissions process?

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So I as having a discussion with a friend, and he said that med schools look favorably upon you if you take lots of hard science classes and don't look favorably on people who major in something else like a non science and just take the bare minimum pre-reqs. But from what I've been told, majors and the courses you take isn't a factor in med schools decision, but my friend (an engineering major) insists otherwise. After all, it does make sense that someone who is an engineer major takes lots of difficult courses as opposed to someone who takes an easier courseload so it should seem med schools might give them "bonus points" for taking a harder courseload and having a harder major. So what really does med schools look in involving the difficulty courseloads/major in the admissions process? Does someone who take quantum physics and advanced sciences have an advantage in the admissions process?

ROFL. The number of nonsci majors is annually increasing. Sure an enginer may get the benefit of the doubt, but by and large adcoms see a higher GPA as a higher GPA.
 
From what I've been told, engineers *might* get bonus points for their more difficult course load. However, this 'bonus' is hardly helpful, especially if one's GPA isn't so great.

If you're an engineer with a crappy GPA, all that it tells them is you tried something difficult and you sucked 🙁

I think the same goes for dual majors. They don't care.

Even if you have a non-sci major, that doesn't mean you can't take upper division science courses. I would just major in something you like, and spend the extra time in areas like research & other ECs.
 
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Yea if u major in something like engineering and can pull offf a 3.5 gpa or better...but do not necessarily have a 4.0 gpa. I think it shows u challenged yourself and did well in it. But if u cant do well, you were better off with the easier major and getting the higher gpa. ..So if you are able to take on a rigorous major and do well in it, I think it looks very good.
 
It also depends on the school-- the MSAR or school websites are good places to look for that kinds of info. Some schools actually state that they are looking for applicants that are "well-rounded" or that come from unique or diverse educational backgrounds, other schools want more research or heavy science backgrounds. Of course everyone has to prove they can handle med school curriculum, but that is taken care of through the pre-reqs and the MCAT.
 
Yeah, I get conflicting responses about this for everyone I talk to. Some people say it doesn't matter at all and other people say it's not a big difference but there is a small difference and other people say med schools acknowledge it and will give "harder" majors (probably not general bio) like engineering bonus points because they took harder classes even if they do get a lower gpa. Is this one of those things that just depends on the school you're applying to?
 
I do think that giving the extra points to engineering majors does depend on the school, but even so, as per LizzyM, enineering majors are only given like 0.1 points, which I guess is something, but it won't bring up a 3.0 much.

Engineering is the only major I have heard of getting this little bonus from adcoms. They may take notice if you are an elementary ed. major, but pretty much anything else on a level playing field now. Even other liberal arts majors, since those are known to develop anayltical thinking skills, etc. Undergrad schools vary so much now that it is hard to really compare difficulty of majors.
 
No with very few exceptions. On the flip side one aspect of course difficulty is overall interest in a subject. This is really important as you choose your major and as you choose the courses you take within your major.
 
My music classes were harder than my math and science classes. I can't stand the snotty pre-med attitude that you see on these forums a lot (I am not saying that the OP has this attitude). I dare a few bio majors to take an upper division music class - say atonal theory or orchestration and see how well they survive. When I was a math minor, many of the math majors would raise and eyebrow at me and ask, "Why are you minoring in math?" and I would respond, "Because it's fun and it gives my mind a break from music." I was able to get an A in all my science classes, and yet there were several music classes that I struggled to get a B+ in. Just my 2 cents.
 
My music classes were harder than my math and science classes. I can't stand the snotty pre-med attitude that you see on these forums a lot (I am not saying that the OP has this attitude). I dare a few bio majors to take an upper division music class - say atonal theory or orchestration and see how well they survive. When I was a math minor, many of the math majors would raise and eyebrow at me and ask, "Why are you minoring in math?" and I would respond, "Because it's fun and it gives my mind a break from music." I was able to get an A in all my science classes, and yet there were several music classes that I struggled to get a B+ in. Just my 2 cents.

I agree, I've always hated those punkass premed or profs with their snotty science attitude thinking that their biochem or genetic are the shnizzle; everything else is not worth doing and if you want go into med school, you have to fill your life up with BCMP.

I still remember when I interview for a research position. The prof (who happened to have a MD-PhD) asked me how come I didn't do any research during my freshmen yr's summer. I was like, "I went to Northern Canada to paint with a bunch of artists".
She was like, "Oh, so you've wasted the entire summer?"
I snapped, "Oh, just because you don't have the class to appreciate high art, doesn't mean it's a waste of time, beside, I started lab work back in high school fyi..."

ps: many art and music courses are harder IMO (I double majored in science programs too FYI). Not only the ones concerning theory, the practical ones are hardcore too if the profs are ultra subjective.
 
Science is hard because people are lazy.
Art & music classes are hard because professors want perfection.

Guess which one is REALLY harder. Guess which one most pre-meds go for.
🙄
 
I've found that the engineering courses are easier than the science ones because I'm not competing against crazy-ass pre-meds that mess up the curve. 😉

I think adcoms will take difficulty of coursework into consideration, but what you think is difficult might not be what they think is difficult. As long as you apply yourself fully, everything should equalize out.
 
I don't know though. Just a piece of fact: my school (a large public university) lists average grades earned in upper and lower division classes by dept and it seems that people taking non-sciences classes on average earn higher grades than those taking sciences classes. For example, the average of an upper division music class might be a 3.5, while that of an upper division biology class might be a 3.2. Of course, that can just mean that non-science majors are smarter than science majors, but I doubt that's the case.....

And I'm not arguing that science majors are smarter than non-science majors or anything like that. Each major is unique and it's hard to draw comparisons across departments over the difficulty of courses. Non-science majors probably learn a lot of things that science majors would never come across, and such is the reason why one shouldn't limit his/her course selection to science classes even he/she is a premed.
 
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Course difficulty is a factor in admission decisions. Many schools state this in their "Selection Criteria."
 
I agree, I've always hated those punkass premed or profs with their snotty science attitude thinking that their biochem or genetic are the shnizzle; everything else is not worth doing and if you want go into med school, you have to fill your life up with BCMP.

I still remember when I interview for a research position. The prof (who happened to have a MD-PhD) asked me how come I didn't do any research during my freshmen yr's summer. I was like, "I went to Northern Canada to paint with a bunch of artists".
She was like, "Oh, so you've wasted the entire summer?"
I snapped, "Oh, just because you don't have the class to appreciate high art, doesn't mean it's a waste of time, beside, I started lab work back in high school fyi..."

ps: many art and music courses are harder IMO (I double majored in science programs too FYI). Not only the ones concerning theory, the practical ones are hardcore too if the profs are ultra subjective.

Condescending attitudes seem to go both ways. People often feel that what they do is in some way superior to what others do.
 
"So I as having a discussion with a friend, and he said that med schools look favorably upon you if you take lots of hard science classes and don't look favorably on people who major in something else like a non science and just take the bare minimum pre-reqs."

Forget the adcoms, do it for the gilrs.

It just never gets old!
 
Don't choose a major or a courseload just based on how you think its difficulty will be viewed by adcoms. I think the best advice is to major in whatever subject area is most interesting to you and take those courses that you want to take, so long as you include all of the required pre-requisits. As earlier posters have pointed out, adcoms are increasingly looking for well-rounded applicants from diverse backgrounds. So the impact of a science heavy verses a science-light schedule will likely be minimal at best, all else being equal.
 
Well, I'm an engineer and I'm not really expecting any special treatment based on what I've been told. It sucks, but at least I found my major interesting.
 
Yay for another hot-button topic which will lead to no productive answer!!!

You guys do know that biochemistry is the ultimate major, right? All other majors are a waste of time. A guy with a 2.4 in biochem is much better than a 4.0 in biomechanicalquantum engineeringology.
 
the four things adcoms will be looking for are ...

1> GPA
2> MCAT
3> Clinical Exp
4> Research

Honors prgms, frats, IM sports, course difficulty, course selection, course variety, and your major DO NOT MATTER!

focus on and excel in #1-4 and you will get in somewhere.
 
I had this very conversation with someone who is planning to attend medical school and was wondering if majoring in Biomedical Engineering would help him or make him more competitive:

From Harvard Medical School's website:

Harvard posted:
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Do you only accept applicants who majored in the sciences as an undergrad?

No preference is given to applicants who have majored in science over those who have majored in other disciplines.
A study at Harvard Medical School has shown that students are successful in their medical studies regardless of undergraduate concentration, providing that they have had adequate science preparation. Students are urged to strive not for specialized training but for a balanced and liberal education.


What undergraduate institution should I attend? Do Ivy League students have an advantage over other students?

Harvard Medical School is looking for people with broad interests and talents, not for students from particular academic institutions. Attend an undergraduate college that will challenge you both academically and personally.

http://hms.harvard.edu/admissions/default.asp?page=admissions
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From Clemson's website:

Clemson posted:
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FAQ5: How do I know which major will be best for me? Which major will increase my chances of admission to medical or dental school?

The admissions committees at medical and dental schools have no opinions on or preferences for "appropriate" majors. You are, however, required to have an outstanding grade point average (GPA). Therefore, you should choose the area of study in which you have the most interest as your major. The student who enjoys the material presented in a major usually makes better grades.
No matter what you may have heard, there is no "silver bullet" major beloved by medical and dental school admissions committees. Do not attempt to pick a major to impress the medical or dental school!


A major that leads to a readily employable career is a good selection in the event you do not get into medical or dental school. In fact, you may find this alternative makes you appreciate your chosen major even more. However, you must pick a major you really like! Mediocre grades will not facilitate admission into a professional school, and you do not want to end up with a career you will not enjoy.
http://www.clemson.edu/preph/faq2_major_medicine_dental.htm
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From the University of Alabama

UA posted:
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What major should I choose? What is the ‘best’ major?

There is no right answer to this question. A student is encouraged to choose a program of study that will be both rewarding and challenging. It is also important that a student choose a major where he or she will be successful. Admissions committees are rarely swayed by students who double/triple majored but did not earn solid grades while doing so. It is also wise to choose a program of study that a student enjoys and that offers an alternative to medical school.

OK, but which major has the best record?

It’s YOUR record that matters. A solid grade point average and solid MCAT score is what the admissions committees are looking for. A difficult major/program of study will not minimize the negative impact of a mediocre GPA, poor MCAT score, or inadequate experience.
http://www.as.ua.edu/undergraduates...medicine/frequently_asked_questions/index.php
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From Case Western's website:

Case Western posted:
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3. Choice of major
Your choice of major should be based on your interest and aptitude. Though medical schools are looking for students with demonstrated ability in basic science courses, they also value a strong overall academic performance in any major - especially a field in which you are required to reason logically and analytically, read critically, and speak and write clearly and concisely. Over the past few years, nearly every department here at CWRU has had successful premedical applicants, and a wide variety of majors are accepted nationally. Where percentages of acceptance vary, the reason is more likely to be due to differences in the strength of the records presented rather than to any preference given to particular majors.

4. What are medical schools looking for?
Besides high levels of scholastic achievement and intellectual potential, medical schools are also seeking students who are highly motivated to enter the medical field, who show strong humanistic concern for others, and who relate well to other people. Criteria used to evaluate candidates include college grades, letters of recommendation, Medical College Admissions Test (MCAT) scores, an applicant's personal statement, and occasionally psychological tests. Students who undertake special projects or independent research may demonstrate qualities that cannot be measured by grades. Some experience in a medical setting is valuable for demonstrating a knowledge of what a career in medicine entails.
http://www.case.edu/orgs/premed/oldsite/Advice.htm
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University of Washington:

UW posted:
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College major
While a bachelor's degree is necessary in order to be a competitive applicant, medical schools are not concerned about your major. You should be thinking of alternate future careers in the event you are not accepted to medical school, and your alternates may be a factor in your choice of major. You should also consider your academic success when you choose a major, and select one that you enjoy and in which you perform well.

GPA
The mean overall GPA for entering medical school students in the last decade has been approximately 3.50-3.60 nationwide. Students with significantly lower GPAs will have a more difficult time gaining admission to medical school, although admission committees will take into consideration any extenuating circumstances and will look for other demonstrated characteristics considered desirable for medicine. Overall, however, college grades are an important predictor of medical school performance and are scrutinized for consistently high performance; that is, a strong GPA with very few withdrawals, incompletes, or repeated courses. No required courses should be taken on a non-graded basis if a graded option is available.
http://www.washington.edu/students/ugrad/advising/premed.html#major
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University of Pittsburgh

UPitt posted:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What is the best major for medical school?

The answer is: there isn’t one best major that will prepare you for medical school. Actually,
medical schools don’t really care what you choose to major in, as long as you demonstrate that
you’re able to perform well in the sciences.

Having said that, most pre-med students do choose to major in one of the natural sciences because
they like those fields and tend to do well in them (hence the interest in attending medical school).
At Pitt, biology and neuroscience are the most popular choices; chemistry is also a common major
for pre-meds. However, if you have a very strong interest in one of the arts, humanities or social
sciences, feel free to pursue that field as a major. Just be sure to work closely with your academic
advisor to integrate the needed science courses into your plan of study.
http://www.placement.pitt.edu/majors/pdf/pre-med planner 11 06.pdf
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Dartmouth

Dartmouth posted:
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CHOOSING A MAJOR
1. Dartmouth students entering medical school represent over 20 different majors.
2. Select a major you enjoy and one you want to pursue in depth.
3. Many students select biology or chemistry, although this gives you no great advantage towards admission.
4. Regardless of major, your success in the required basic science courses will be assessed.

http://www.dartmouth.edu/~nss/nav/pages/advice/ '10%20Premed.html
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And so goes the advice of pretty much every pre-medical program I have seen, from the Ivies to community colleges.
 
This is definitely a topic that no one really has a complete answer to, as it often comes down to individual adcom members who review the application. They may know the reputation of the difficulty of a university, course or major; they may not. At the end of day, a high GPA is better than a low GPA.
 
I don't know though. Just a piece of fact: my school (a large public university) lists average grades earned in upper and lower division classes by dept and it seems that people taking non-sciences classes on average earn higher grades than those taking sciences classes. For example, the average of an upper division music class might be a 3.5, while that of an upper division biology class might be a 3.2. Of course, that can just mean that non-science majors are smarter than science majors, but I doubt that's the case.....

Well when I was graduating, I looked at the percentile breakdown of GPA (ex. above what GPA was top 10%, etc) for each department of the graduating class, and the difference between the highest and the lowest was 0.03 max.
 
"A major that leads to a readily employable career is a good selection in the event you do not get into medical or dental school"

I agree with this completely. Choose the major that you like and one that gives you the most options in case you don't get in.
 
the four things adcoms will be looking for are ...

1> GPA
2> MCAT
3> Clinical Exp
4> Research

Honors prgms, frats, IM sports, course difficulty, course selection, course variety, and your major DO NOT MATTER!

focus on and excel in #1-4 and you will get in somewhere.

I wouldn't say those don't matter at all, but just that they're less important. It's kind of like college football, where teams are ranked by record but their schedules are also looked at to see which deserve to be in more prestigious bowls. However, if the team doesn't have a good record, then playing the most difficult schedule doesn't help. Same thing for med school admissions. :meanie:
 
I wouldn't say those don't matter at all, but just that they're less important. It's kind of like college football, where teams are ranked by record but their schedules are also looked at to see which deserve to be in more prestigious bowls. However, if the team doesn't have a good record, then playing the most difficult schedule doesn't help. Same thing for med school admissions. :meanie:


It's funny how there are conflicting responses in this thread. So maybe it does depend on the individual members who are reading the applications.

But based on those sites Quix gave me, it looks like Med schools might not give bonuses to "hard" sciences but engineering might be a different story though. But then again, it does look like there's no definite answer to this question.
 
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