Is Dermatology residency possible for indian medical students

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Srsrsrsr

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Hi..
I was searching a lot about dermatology residency.im so intrested in that field.now after a long search on internet,what i realized was its very tough to get matched.just wanted to know how to approach and in wat way dermatology residency becomes a possibility n match ..so please help.thanku in advance..have a good day
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Might want to clarify where you're attending med school. Are you attending in the U.S. or are you in another country. That would probably make a difference.
 
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There are plenty of US med students who want derm and many who don't get it despite being American and with competitive stats, good personality, etc. so it's probably higly unlikely for you and especially if you don't have US citizenship or a green card.

Unless you mean you're an Indian med student from like Oxford or Cambridge, high Step scores, publications in derm in high impact journals, perhaps a PhD, perhaps you already are an attending level dermatologist hoping to move to the U.S., etc.

Check out FM because they sometimes diagnose, treat, and manage dermatological diseases or related issues.
 
Very very small chance, But technically not impossible.
 
Is there any way to improve my chances to match in dermatology
 
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Im still preparing for my step 1.i want to know wat way i can improve the chances of matching into dermatology,so that i can plan accordingly.please help
 
Do you go to a U.S. Allopathic school?
 
It sounds like OP goes to a med school in India and wants to match a U.S. residency for derm. Based on Step 1 score alone, according to the Charting the Outcomes document he'll have no more than a 55% of matching into any U.S. program, and that's with a 260+ Step 1 score. With a average Step 1 score of 230 that chance drops to around 40%. So not impossible but very uncertain. To strengthen his chances, in addition to getting good Step 1 and Step 2 scores he'll probably have to take at least 2 years off after completing medical school to do a significant amount of derm-research in the U.S. and publish. This is pretty common these days for IMGs who want to match into anything more competitive than the primary care specialties. And since med school is usually a lot less expensive in other countries and there is often no undergrad before med school, the IMGs are usually younger when the graduate and don't have significant loans piling up and thus can usually afford to take time off to do this (and often don't have much of a choice). Even then, he'll be most likely be looking at community or lower-ranking academic programs. Also, he needs to consider that the chances for IMG are likely to get worse in the next few years as more new US med schools have opened and existing ones have added additional spots to their classes. The increased number of AMGs in the next few years will have priority over IMGs in the match process. And if he waits too long to apply, the average Step 1 scores can be even higher by then so he would have to kill it right now.

The other option if possible is to transfer to an American med school after taking Step 1 and graduate as an AMG, which will significantly improve his chances. This is usually only possible if his school has a special partnership with an American med school to allow this, or if he has an extenuating personal situation that requires him to be located in a specific city in the U.S. and there is a spot open in a medical school in that city.
 
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Lets just be completely honest. If OP matches derm into at a US program, someone(s) from that program is gonna get fired. Too many US students have perfect resumes that compete for derm to allow IMGs to even have a slither chance. And we are talking about US students from prestigious schools too. His chance is 0.
 
twospadz said:
Lets just be completely honest. If OP matches derm into at a US program, someone(s) from that program is gonna get fired. Too many US students have perfect resumes that compete for derm to allow IMGs to even have a slither chance. And we are talking about US students from prestigious schools too. His chance is 0.
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That's kind of an ignorant statement. If someone is an excellent candidate and has published a ton of derm research, possibly was already an attending in their home country, and/or has excellent step scores, I don't see why they shouldn't be given a fair chance. All things equal (or even with the FMG being slightly more competitive) of course the US Student should get that spot. Too much entitlement in people these days. Nobody should be fired for hiring someone who is clearly better than everybody else.

Also, not even interested in derm but I recall being bored and just looking at some resident profiles from some derm residents. I recall, at 2 separate top programs, a female resident who was the beauty queen in her home country or something of that nature, and another who was an Olympic athlete in her home country. Both of whom it looked like matched into programs directly out of their respective foreign medical schools.

But in saying that... maybe you're right, nvm. OP basically you have to do something extremely impressive/interesting on top of being a great candidate numbers-wise. So I guess unless you're really really ridiculously good looking, plan on competing in Brazil next year, or are secretly the president of some country, it's unlikely that anything you do for the remainder of medical school will allow you to match into something so competitive, even for US med students.
 
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Bancrofti said:
That's kind of an ignorant statement. If someone is an excellent candidate and has published a ton of derm research, possibly was already an attending in their home country, and/or has excellent step scores, I don't see why they shouldn't be given a fair chance. All things equal (or even with the FMG being slightly more competitive) of course the US Student should get that spot. Too much entitlement in people these days. Nobody should be fired for hiring someone who is clearly better than everybody else.

Also, not even interested in derm but I recall being bored and just looking at some resident profiles from some derm residents. I recall, at 2 separate top programs, a female resident who was the beauty queen in her home country or something of that nature, and another who was an Olympic athlete in her home country. Both of whom it looked like matched into programs directly out of their respective foreign medical schools.

But in saying that... maybe you're right, nvm. OP basically you have to do something extremely impressive/interesting on top of being a great candidate numbers-wise. So I guess unless you're really really ridiculously good looking, plan on competing in Brazil next year, or are secretly the president of some country, it's unlikely that anything you do for the remainder of medical school will allow you to match into something so competitive, even for US med students.
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I'm being ignorant because OP obviously doesn't want to match into Dermatology for the right reasons lets be completely honest. He's only wants to do it for the prestige and money. That's how many foreign students are, just like many were when I was a premed. Most of them in undergrad acted like they were a failure if they didn't go to Harvard medical school and yet most of them didn't even have grades or mcat to get into a regular medical school.

I know it might sound like I'm being mean but you guys are giving OP hope when there really isn't any to get into derm. And the fact of the matter is he doesn't deserve any hope. Because if I was trying to match into another person's country, I would be clearly aware that Im not gonna get into the most competitive program over people who are citizens of that country. OP is clearly entitled and thinks just because he steps foot in some else's country and bypasses their process in becoming a doctor, he will be granted acceptance into which is arguably the hardest residency to get into.
 
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twospadz said:
I'm being ignorant because OP obviously doesn't want to match into Dermatology for the right reasons lets be completely honest. He's only wants to do it for the prestige and money. That's how many foreign students are, just like many were when I was a premed. Most of them in undergrad acted like they were a failure if they didn't go to Harvard medical school and yet most of them didn't even have grades or mcat to get into a regular medical school.

I know it might sound like I'm being mean but you guys are giving OP hope when there really isn't any to get into derm. And the fact of the matter is he doesn't deserve any hope. Because if I was trying to match into another person's country, I would be clearly aware that Im not gonna get into the most competitive program over people who are citizens of that country. OP is clearly entitled and thinks just because he steps foot in some else's country and bypasses their process in becoming a doctor, he will be granted acceptance into which is arguably hardest residency to get into.
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I agree with you... I tend to argue for the sake of arguing sometimes during my study breaks... explains my relationship issues.
 
masaraksh said:
Your chance at a derm residency is 0.

Have you even looked at the published NRMP stats?
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I was asking the way to improve chances of matching..therez no need to be so rude!anyways thanku
 
Was really expecting some good advices but just realized no one is here for a purpose.thankyou for ur mean and rude replies
 
Srsrsrsr said:
Was really expecting some good advices but just realized no one is here for a purpose.thankyou for ur mean and rude replies
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That's most of SDN (Sarcasm and snarky comments are the primary language here) but seriously you'll need to move to the US and pursue a ton of derm research. Seems like the consensus here is to consider other options for residency as your battle will be heavily uphill
 
Thankyou..i knew it needed lot of research work and good scores.was looking for more information thinking that people here have good knowledge..anyways thankyou
 
Srsrsrsr said:
Was really expecting some good advices but just realized no one is here for a purpose.thankyou for ur mean and rude replies
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You're angry because you're getting blunt replies to a question with no answer.

If I asked what I could do to improve my chances at becoming Pope... well.. it's not that it is impossible... just so very improbable as to be essentially impossible.

As with your question, you're asking for advice on something that nobody has a roadmap for. It's so rarely accomplished that we can't give useful advice. What we can say is that, based on historical trends, it won't happen. Based on previous attempts it won't happen. Could you manage to capture lightning in a bottle and achieve the near-impossible... maybe. But you'll have to figure it out for yourself.

What we are giving is a realistic response. You want to know how to match derm as an otherwise average IMG; we are saying it won't happen. We can't give you more useful advice than that.
 
Doctor Bob said:
You're angry because you're getting blunt replies to a question with no answer.

If I asked what I could do to improve my chances at becoming Pope... well.. it's not that it is impossible... just so very improbable as to be essentially impossible.

As with your question, you're asking for advice on something that nobody has a roadmap for. It's so rarely accomplished that we can't give useful advice. What we can say is that, based on historical trends, it won't happen. Based on previous attempts it won't happen. Could you manage to capture lightning in a bottle and achieve the near-impossible... maybe. But you'll have to figure it out for yourself.

What we are giving is a realistic response. You want to know how to match derm as an otherwise average IMG; we are saying it won't happen. We can't give you more useful advice than that.
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Thats wat..wat is the point to discourage someone whoz seeking ur advice in a good way?if u hv no roadmap or idea about it then let it go but dont discourage anyone..its not just abt me.this kind of replies shud nt be given to anyone
 
I dont need anymore replies .i am deleting the account from sdn.by the way im not angry on anyone..this the way world is..all the best for all of u
 
Srsrsrsr said:
Thankyou..i knew it needed lot of research work and good scores.was looking for more information thinking that people here have good knowledge..anyways thankyou
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Actually, even with a ton of research and a high board score, your chance of matching to derm is less than 0.00001%. You came on SDN to get what you want to hear, but we slapped you with the reality. Stay in India & be a derm there if you are so desired for it.

Srsrsrsr said:
Thats wat..wat is the point to discourage someone whoz seeking ur advice in a good way?if u hv no roadmap or idea about it then let it go but dont discourage anyone..its not just abt me.this kind of replies shud nt be given to anyone
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No offense, but you can't even write properly. Are you sure that you're a medical student?
 
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notbobtrustme said:
Derm isn't even prestigious except to medical students.
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Truth.

But ask a pt if they want to keep their Derm appt or their IM appt for BP or Diabetes and I'll bet they pick Derm a majority of the time.

Not saying that's the way it should be, but yeah.
 
kenjixshadow said:
Actually, even with a ton of research and a high board score, your chance of matching to derm is less than 0.00001%. You came on SDN to get what you want to hear, but we tell you slapped you with the reality. Stay in India and be a derm there if you are so desired for it.



No offense, but you can't even write properly. Are you sure that you're a medical student?



Okay, you're welcome. Bye.
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Y do u hv to use all such words?i didnt join sdn or post something to hear what i wanted.was asking to help me know more about dermatology.but u r being too rude.
 
The fact that OP is even upset at our responses tells you he doesn't understand how hard it is to match in Derm for Img or even an Amg. It also lets us know that he really isn't interested in the field of Derm. Also, he comes off as being very thin skinned because he's claims he's gonna delete his account because of our answers. And these are the people you guys on sdn give hope to. I mean honestly I feel like we are doing a disserve by not being honest and tough on each other. The world is a hard place period. No need to sugar coat.
 
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kenjixshadow said:
Actually, even with a ton of research and a high board score, your chance of matching to derm is less than 0.00001%. You came on SDN to get what you want to hear, but we tell you slapped you with the reality. Stay in India and be a derm there if you are so desired for it.



No offense, but you can't even write properly. Are you sure that you're a medical student?



Okay, you're welcome. Bye.
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Y r u getting offended anyway?i didnt point out ur replies in the thread.i have no issues with u.
 
They do not appear offended to me.

Honestly, I am being serious when I say this. If you want cheers and hope (mostly false, imo), head over to the USMLE forums.

If it is your dream to be a dermatologist in the USA, then go for it. Just don't say after years and thousands of dollars, you weren't adequately warned here.

I just finished Dermatology residency (as an AMG), and mostly what everyone says here is true. It is not impossible but very very difficult for IMGs.

I do know that sometimes it happens by the person's home country paying for the person so the US government or the hospital do not have to. But even then, I'm sure they are extraordinary candidates.

Sorry you are not hearing what you want to hear. It's nothing personal.

Best of luck in your endeavors.
 
Pretty soon, you'll be lucky to get family medicine, let alone one of the most competitive residencies in the U.S.

Things are going to change very soon for foreign medical graduates. I'd recommend you try for a U.S. Residency immediately in something achievable, like family med.

No is intentionally trying to hurt you. Just trying to help you so you can factor this in with your decision.
 
no offense, i am not pin pointing OP and i am not super smart know-it-all guy.
but with this level of understanding, this attitude and this skill of writing, he/she cant match anywhere. OP obviously dosent know anything about USA medical system.
 
royalmedicus said:
no offense, i am not pin pointing OP and i am not super smart know-it-all guy.
but with this level of understanding, this attitude and this skill of writing, he/she cant match anywhere. OP obviously dosent know anything about USA medical system.
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Yah this guy can't even write complete sentences. I doubt he will match into any field, let alone derm. Srs, can you even match into derm in India? Somehow I'm also questioning that possibility.
 
In response to those with questions about the OPs expectations and posting style: the use of abbreviations or text speak is very common on forums geared towards the international community, especially those from the Indian subcontinent. Furthermore the general tone of those forums is one of congratulations, motivation and encouragement even against all odds.

Therefore I suspect the OP expected that sort of response or even when told honestly that the chances weren't good, that it was couched with a lot of encouragement and stories about someone you knew who made it, instead of the completely honest answers here.
 
mpdoc2 said:
Yah this guy can't even write complete sentences. I doubt he will match into any field, let alone derm. Srs, can you even match into derm in India? Somehow I'm also questioning that possibility.
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from what i know, in India specialty selection is totally rank based. you got a good rank in a single post graduation exam? boom, you can choose anything you want in any institute. there is just no role of personality, communication skills, publications, researches and all other 'non-rank' activities.

not trying to underestimate Indian system but these are the facts.
 
Getting into med in India is not an accomplishment. My cousin's friend got in with a 51% avg in his grade 12 studies (undergrad is not required in india).
All you need is $$$. If you are not one of these kids who is paying for their spot, you might have a slim slim chance if you find those rare research opportunities and tons of publications.

That being said, there are next to 0 opportunities for research even in medschool. ECs will be no where near competitive if you studied in USA over the course of 4 years.

Best to do residency in india or aim for a less competitive one in USA.

That being said, its not unheard off. My uncle (indian, and went to indian medical school) did IM residency in the UK and got a cardio fellowship in usa and now is a cardiologist. However, my uncle was absolutely brilliant, and only spent about $50 equivalent US currency for his entire education because of scholarships.
 
xClashx said:
Getting into med in India is not an accomplishment. My cousin's friend got in with a 51% avg in his grade 12 studies (undergrad is not required in india).
All you need is $$$. If you are not one of these kids who is paying for their spot, you might have a slim slim chance if you find those rare research opportunities and tons of publications.

That being said, there are next to 0 opportunities for research even in medschool. ECs will be no where near competitive if you studied in USA over the course of 4 years.

Best to do residency in india or aim for a less competitive one in USA.

That being said, its not unheard off. My uncle (indian, and went to indian medical school) did IM residency in the UK and got a cardio fellowship in usa and now is a cardiologist. However, my uncle was absolutely brilliant, and only spent about $50 equivalent US currency for his entire education because of scholarships.
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I'm also sure that was before the 90s as did al the pakistanis who are now highly paid attendings in the US.

Med school in Infia and Pakistan is 5 years right out of HS. No research is required for any field and rarely, if ANY, is done by doctors or med students. No ECs, volunteer work etc is needed to get into med school either.
You guys are most likely talking to a 20 year old who wants to match into a US residency and take his chance at a green card

We put in 4 years of undergrade, in many cases do smps or post baccs, go crazy studying for te mcat to just get into med school and its really sad that residencies that should be for American doctors get handed to imgs which is costlier and leaves many doctors without residencies

This kid tho is a spoilt brat who expects us to basically say we'll be standing at the airport with flower necklaces greeting him to come start his derm residency.

India mein raho beta, yay amerika hai
 
thekiterunner89 said:
I'm also sure that was before the 90s as did al the pakistanis who are now highly paid attendings in the US.

Med school in Infia and Pakistan is 5 years right out of HS. No research is required for any field and rarely, if ANY, is done by doctors or med students. No ECs, volunteer work etc is needed to get into med school either.
You guys are most likely talking to a 20 year old who wants to match into a US residency and take his chance at a green card

We put in 4 years of undergrade, in many cases do smps or post baccs, go crazy studying for te mcat to just get into med school and its really sad that residencies that should be for American doctors get handed to imgs which is costlier and leaves many doctors without residencies

This kid tho is a spoilt brat who expects us to basically say we'll be standing at the airport with flower necklaces greeting him to come start his derm residency.

India mein raho beta, yay amerika hai
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thekiterunner89 said:
India mein raho beta, yay amerika hai
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Lol. Okay that's just mean.

But also lets not downplay the fact that that's also the reason why Indians are a hugely ORM, as well as other Asians. It makes it that much harder for the people born and raised here that actually want to be doctors to make a difference in people's lives. I'm glad that's all be phased out as Indian culture ranks medicine as the most prestigious field to enter. This makes everyone want it and not for the right reasons (of course not always)
 
Iridescent said:
Lol. Okay that's just mean.

But also lets not downplay the fact that that's also the reason why Indians are a hugely ORM, as well as other Asians. It makes it that much harder for the people born and raised here that actually want to be doctors to make a difference in people's lives. I'm glad that's all be phased out as Indian culture ranks medicine as the most prestigious field to enter. This makes everyone want it and not for the right reasons (of course not always)
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I'm not being mean, I'm being mean. I spent 22 years of my life growing up in South Asia. And i saw one thing repeatedly:
girls going to med school at 18 only to get good "rishtas" (proposals) so they can be married by the time theyre 23 and out of med school.
There is no such thing as doctor patient confidentiality
There is no such thing as bedside manner, you'd be surprised at how doctors speak to patients
The majority of them want to come to the US, the easiest way to America is to become a doctor and take whatever residency you land, because in all seriously when you go back to india/pakistan all you have to say is im a doctor in america and bham you're considered a demi god.

And all that is fine, what infuriates me is that we have to work so hard here, that everyone has this MD/DO debate going on about who is smarter, who has better shots at residencies blah blah when our system gives img's the same recognition as an MD degree but still continue to criticize DO degrees as not being up to par with MD.
A medical degree in indi and pakistn is called MBBS, fresh out of HS with none of the experiences we have here so tell me how is that degree equivalent to MD or DO degrees here?
 
thekiterunner89 said:
I'm not being mean, I'm being mean. I spent 22 years of my life growing up in South Asia. And i saw one thing repeatedly:
girls going to med school at 18 only to get good "rishtas" (proposals) so they can be married by the time theyre 23 and out of med school.
There is no such thing as doctor patient confidentiality
There is no such thing as bedside manner, you'd be surprised at how doctors speak to patients
The majority of them want to come to the US, the easiest way to America is to become a doctor and take whatever residency you land, because in all seriously when you go back to india/pakistan all you have to say is im a doctor in america and bham you're considered a demi god.

And all that is fine, what infuriates me is that we have to work so hard here, that everyone has this MD/DO debate going on about who is smarter, who has better shots at residencies blah blah when our system gives img's the same recognition as an MD degree but still continue to criticize DO degrees as not being up to par with MD.
A medical degree in indi and pakistn is called MBBS, fresh out of HS with none of the experiences we have here so tell me how is that degree equivalent to MD or DO degrees here?
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You can whine all you want but your concerns are not being shared by the people who accept IMG's over here. IMG's make 1/3 of U.S physician population. You should at least show some amount of respect. The reason that they are working over here is because of their hard work. And what is exactly wrong in improving one's living standard ? Why are you hell bent in demonizing them as if they are subhuman in pursing their dreams.......
 
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