is DO and MD the same ? thanks.

[thanks_sdn_2005]

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hi everyone:

Would someone please give some INFO.... and OPINIONS... the difference between MD and DO ?

just wondering...

thanks for the info.

 

[DrQuinn]

I strongly suggest you do a search for it, as this topic has been talked about for eons on innumerable threads.

Q, DO

 

[pboothe]

The difference between DO and MD depends on your perspective.....

I say there is very little difference....of course some say DOs are inferior.....

You have to decide for yourself.

Licensure=same
Practice Rights =same
curriculum =same

Degree=?

 

[group_theory]

Are you looking for Info or Opinions

If you are looking for info, try using google. type "osteopathic medicine". Not that difficult. Or better yet, go to SDN's homepage and click on the Osteopathic Students link.

If you are looking for opinions, use the search features

I doubt anyone here can contribute something new that hasn't been already argued, counter-argued, etc.

To quote my old high school teacher - try to find the answer yourself before you ask.

 

[thanks_sdn_2005]

thanks everyone...

I am new here...
I am a (old) non-tradtional student and coming back for premed...
actually, career changed too.
my question meant to have some feedback from "GOOD PROF. OPINIONS" because I believe a lot of you guys here exposed to health care fields have way more experiences than me.
I was working in computer field, therefore, very little knowlege about health field.
I did some research about DO, and MD... quite frankly, I don't see a difference nor can tell the difference either...

I meant no insults of MD nor DO.
just looking for great opinions from people whom having experiences in health care fields...

thanks again.

 

[What the pho]

In practice the same.
In schooling not the same, DOs take an extra "massage class" and most of them take two sets of boards usmle and COMpLEX.

 

[Dr_sax]

I've heard a lot of things on here, but never have I heard "massage class." OMM is not a massage class...call it quackery if that makes you feel better, but it most certainly is not a "massage class." Doing HVLA on someone's back is not my idea of a good massage. 😀

Good luck with whatever path you follow,

Dr_Sax

 

[DoctorShaR]

In osteopathic medicine you essentially learn the same in allopathic medicine. Yes, one does have to learn Osteopathic Manipulation and Philosophy, but I would not consider it a"massage class". You learn how to manipulate the body in order to return it to it's proper function. In other words the body is designed to take care of it's self unless there is dysfunction, somatic or otherwise, if you through manipulation help the body achieve it's proper form than proper function should follow. This is not to say that medication will not be necessary in some cases.

If you are paying $20,000 and greater for tuition, why not learn another tool you can use to help your patients. People will always argue that you can get into D.O. schools with lower grades and MCAT scores, but they forget that being a straight A student does not make you an excellent physician. There is dedication, compassion, unwaivering desire to help others that cannot be demonstrated with MCAT scores and GPAs. All physicians have to pass the board exams in order to practice, so it does not matter if you got a 43 or a 17 on the MCATs. FYI, I know 2 people in osteopathic medical school who got both of those scores.

As far as taking 2 sets of board exams that is not necessary unless you want to apply for some "old school" allopathic residencies that favor USMLE.

The point is that it doesn't matter where you go to school unless you are trying to be a world renowned whatever. What matters is your dedication to helping people and learning all that you can in order to be an excellent physician.

 

[Neuronix]

Just to spin it my own way, if you are interested in research, academics, or highly academic subspecialties, the opportunities are much greater in allopathic medical schools. All of the top reseach institutions in the nation are either not affiliated with a medical school or affiliated with a MD program. That translates into more opportunities and more money to do research at these programs. That kind of research will set you apart for highly competitive residencies.

If you are interested in a primary care specialty, it doesn't matter. Do what you like.

My two cents out.

 

[kmnfive]

**snif sniff... ** i can smell a flame war brewing.

 

[jhbkim]

The difference between MD an DO is the philosophy in which they take in treating patients. MD treats the disease of the patient to a specific organ. DO treats the patients as an individual. Those that go into DO usually become general practicioners. I volunteered in a hospital when I was in college and the head of the Emergency Department was a DO. Hope that helped a little.


I am applying to DO as well as MD.

 

[Amy B]

Originally posted by What the pho
In practice the same.
In schooling not the same, DOs take an extra "massage class" and most of them take two sets of boards usmle and COMpLEX.

Actually it is the COMLEX and not the COMPLEX.

Although I have applied DO and MD, DO is my first choice. The best doctors I have personally had treating me have almost always been DO's. I intend to practice rural family medicine. DO schools have heavy emphasis on rural practices. Rotations and classes geared to learn how to treat these patients.

Osteopathic Manipulation Medicine is far from massage. It is learning to use your hands to help in diagnosis of problems a patient may be having. Although I am somewhat apprehensive about this class, I am willing to learn anything that will help my patients.

Oh and by the way a number of MD schools are adding electives in OMM. They are begining to see the benifits it gives to patients.

That's my 2 cents on this subject.

 

[What the pho]

Originally posted by Amy B
Actually it is the COMLEX and not the COMPLEX.

I know that, but if you read a thread in the DO forums you'll see that the test is COMpLEX notice the small p in my spelling is a joke for those who are sarcastically impaired. DOs who want to get into competitive residencies have to take the usmle and are often required by their school to take the COMpLEX in order to get there degree.

P.S. do you think I give a ratz arse about which their/there/they're I use. If we were on rounds and you corrected my english or grammar I would bitch slap your candy arse. This is the internet not a english class, and yes I'm already in MD school so kizz my arse.

 

[wholehealth]

If you are going to react like that, it is "their degree", not there degree. Why is that concept so difficult for people?

-all in good fun, I promise...

 

[Dr_sax]

1) DOs do not need to take the USMLE to get a competitive residency. A DO with a solid Comlex score will have a good shot at a nice residency, whether it be allopathic or osteopathic. Believe it or not, there are other factors besides board scores that go into residency placement.
2) DOs, since they ARE DOs, take the Comlex to get licensed. Just as MDs take the USMLE. It's not like a DO can just take all three parts of the USMLE and bang, they're licensed. Whether or not a school requires a certain Comlex step, ie II, for graduation is up to that school.

I must add that many of you, and even the nicer ones, are somewhat ignorant of osteopathic medicine. I suggest you do some more research. The broad generalizations about osteopathic medicine are what plague this profession.

Dr_Sax, an actual osteopathic student 😀

 

[Cerberus]

I say, is should be are!

 

[thanks_sdn_2005]

Hi everyone:

Like I mentioned before......I am/was in computer field/job and decided to go into health care prof. (career change).

No matter which website i researched: google.com, yahoo.com. msn.com, infoseek.com
They just gave me a bunch of words to describe DO and MD.
that was the reason why i asked for your help.

After reading your replies...I CAN'T THANKS ENOUGH FOR YOUR INFO....your inputs gave me more details than those websites... It is your "real" life/job experience that made your inputs so easy for me to understand.

definitely...I understood now and ready to make my decision.

Thank you...you guys been great help ! 🙂

John


🙄

 

[group_theory]

If you have time, here is an interesting article by Dr. Kuchera on what osteopathic medicine is.

http://www.aacom.org/om/om-kuchera.html

Enjoy

One of the main causes of the fall of the Roman Empire was that, lacking zero, they had no way to indicate successful termination of their C programs. - Robert Firth

C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot; C++ makes it harder, but when you do, it blows away your whole leg. -Bjarne Stroustrup

 

[....]

hehe.

I would wonder why Amy B finds it neccesary to apply to MD is DO is her top choice. It IS a fact that its harder to get into MD than DO, regadless of which is "better". Its like saying im going to apply to harvard in case i dont get into NYMC. Or maybe more accuratly, im going to apply to out of state schools which only take 2 non residents in case i dont get into one of mey 5 state schools which give me priority. odd odd odd

I didnt apply to DO, my dad is a DO and he told me it was a hassle explaining it. But i would love to take an OMM class. Thats wonderfull that some MD offer it.

 

[PianoGirl04]

DO schools tend to have lower average GPA/MCAT scores than MD schools. I've heard that they consider the applicant as a whole instead of focusing on numbers, as allopathic schools do. However, the training is mostly the same, with the exception that DOs get a little bit of extra training in a massage/manipulation type thing. DOs also take a holistic approach and treat the whole patient rather than treat distinct symptoms...but then again, I think allopathic schools are heading toward this philosophy as well. I didn't apply to any osteo schools because I didn't want to deal with a separate primary application...AMCAS was enough of a pain in the arse for me.

 

[DrQuinn]

Originally posted by What the pho
P.S. do you think I give a ratz arse about which their/there/they're I use. If we were on rounds and you corrected my english or grammar I would bitch slap your candy arse. This is the internet not a english class, and yes I'm already in MD school so kizz my arse.

Why the hostility? Waiter forgot to give you extra bo vien? Chill out brother.

Q, DO

 

[....]

"P.S. do you think I give a ratz arse about which their/there/they're I use. If we were on rounds and you corrected my english or grammar I would bitch slap your candy arse. This is the internet not a english class, and yes I'm already in MD school so kizz my arse"

arse? ......come on....... your not english......

My idealistic expectations of the kind of people i would meet in med school are being quikoly shattered a full year before i step foot in an actual med school class room.....bitch slap you candy arse on rounds....nice.... 🙄

 

[gary5]

People apply to DO schools when their numbers are low. Knowing that, I don't go to DO doctors.

 

[....]

Why shoose undergrad #'s as the significant ones?

So i suppose you dont let meharry or howard docs see you either?

while your at it though? Why care about undergrad #' which are only based on subjects only related to medicine and not medicial themselves?

Why not ask them there board scores? far more important than their organic grade if you ask me. Would you go to an Allopath with a 200 over a DO with a 230? I wouldnt.

 

[DrQuinn]

Originally posted by gary5
People apply to DO schools when their numbers are low. Knowing that, I don't go to DO doctors.

*sigh* the flame war begins.

Gary5, you wouldn't have a choice if you came into my ER. Neither would your mother or your grandfather.

Q, DO

 

[gary5]

I'm not slamming DOs per se. I was mentioning the #'s trend. If you're offended because people with lower numbers tend to apply to DO schools, that's your issue.

 

[fabiolablake]

Originally posted by gary5
I'm not slamming DOs per se. I was mentioning the #'s trend. If you're offended because people with lower numbers tend to apply to DO schools, that's your issue.

gary5,

I find it pretty ignorant to have this mentality. I shadowed a DO that graduated #1 in his class from UHS and did an allopathic residency in orthopedic surgery who graduated with a 2.87 GPA in mechanical engineering. He was the orthopedic surgeon that everyone wanted to schedule with because he was so good. Just because he had a difficult time calculating the volume a an object through integral calculus does not make him a bad doctor. Theoretical science is much different then applied science. He is wonderful with his patients, a highly sought after surgeon, and a great teacher. I don't find that being unable to replicate all the structures in the Kreb's Cycle really determines how great of doctor you will be. Please reconsider your ideas about osteopathic medicine or do a little research about the subject first. At least keep an open mind, you may be surprised.

Blake

 

[DrQuinn]

Originally posted by gary5
Knowing that, I don't go to DO doctors.

Actually you were commenting how you wouldn't go to a DO because of the "#s trend." That is what I have issue with. Like I said, I hope you never get in a car accident, but if you do, I hope you don't have an issue with me running your trauma code.

Q< DO

 

[gary5]

Hey, I complimented you on the other forum. Maybe you missed it. 😛

 

[What the pho]

Originally posted by hightrump

arse? ......come on....... your not english......

My idealistic expectations of the kind of people i would meet in med school are being quikoly shattered a full year before i step foot in an actual med school class room.....bitch slap you candy arse on rounds....nice.... 🙄

No, I'm not english but people use arse on the boards so it won't get edited by a mod. And your naive ideals well get shattered if you think all people in med school are going to be nice. Most of them well be, but there are going to be alot of closet gunners who are going to want that competitive res. And alot of egos of smart people tryin to out do each other. As soon as you make a mistake on some pathophysiology in pbl one of your classmates well correct you w/a quickness, or on rounds resedents well PIMP (put in my place) you. So when some anal pre-med comes on the boards to correct spelling and grammar, they soon learn most people don't give a **** as long as you get the diagonsis and treatment right. So if your going to correct something correct peoples medical knowledge not some lame crap. And yes spelling is important on H&Ps, SOAP notes and RX, but not on some informal internet forum.

 

[....]

look at my title, i dont give poop about spelling. I hate that sort of thing.

What i also hate is a new young mush minded section of music listeners who like bands like Travis coldplay and others so they begin to try and emulate english speech. My mates, my arse ect..
(nothing wrong with those bands by the way)

But if its simply to get aound the filters, i take what i said back.
But if you say arse to me on rounds ill b1tch slap your candy arse.

 

[wholehealth]

Hey, sorry about the spelling correction, like I said, all in good fun. I was just giving you some of your own medicine after a reaction to the 'COMpLEX' spelling issue.

Please don't bitch slap me...I mean, what the pho??

 

[Amy B]

Originally posted by hightrump
hehe.

I would wonder why Amy B finds it neccesary to apply to MD is DO is her top choice. It IS a fact that its harder to get into MD than DO, regadless of which is "better". Its like saying im going to apply to harvard in case i dont get into NYMC.

Hi, I'll tell you why I applied to both. I am married and my husband is the only breadwinner in the family. I had to apply to a number of different locations where I know he can get a job. For example I applied to Univ of Cincy (MD) because we have family in Cincy and since it is a big city I know he can find a job there. I applied to Pitt because of the same reason. I applied to Marshall becuase we have family and strong ties to that area as well. (no application to Harvard though.)

So believe it or not I did have a legit reason to apply DO and MD. And it was only due to increasing my husband's chances of finding employment. He is in upper executive managment so we need a lots of companies to choose from.

I was accepted to med school(MD program- West Virginia University) for the fall of 2002, but was unable to go because my husband wasn't able to find a job there. So we learned this time to apply to a number of places and then hopefully have a number of acceptances and a number of job opportunities. I don't want to have to move alone with my daughter if he can't find a job and has to remain here. We decided that will be the end result this time. I am not going to give up my last chance to go to med school.

That is why DO and MD.

 

[DD214_DOC]

I'm another MD and DO applicant, and I think I should chime in here. I didn't choose my schools based on their "philosophy", I chose my schools based on their location, knowing there's really no difference between a DO and an MD. The degree is just that -- a degree. It's like having a BA in Psychology instead of a BS; one isn't necessarily better than the other, the curriculum just has a few minor differences. In my case (I'm a BS) I had to take some extra math and my approach to psychology is more biological/chemical based than theory.

Think of MD/DO in the same manner: slightly different curriculum (OMT) and a little different thinking (holistic). Besides, everyone who has a clue realizes that it's one's GME that determines how good of a physician they are, not the two letters after their name.

 

[What the pho]

Originally posted by hightrump

But if you say arse to me on rounds ill b1tch slap your candy arse.

Now you know where I'm coming from. When people try to PIMP you, you verbally b!tch slap them back at the spead of one action potential. Just the other day in PBL our MD tutor tried to pimp the group on the difference between plasma and serum, and what factor causes hemo B, and in 2.5 mirosec i b!tch slaped him back w/the right answer. If someone said arse to you in real life I'd b!tch slap them for you.

Originally posted by wholehealth

Please don't bitch slap me...I mean, what the pho??

Okay I won't sense you asked me not too, but you better bring me my money. Ya know pimps gotz to get paid.😀

 

[chaeymaey]

I like that whole "pimp" thing. It's really funny. I think I'll use that.

 

[DD214_DOC]

How many times must people reiterate the same garbage. The only reason DO stats are lower is because less of the competitive applicants apply there. The competitive people apply to MD schools because of various reasons. Not to mention, I don't think a difference of 0.1-0.2 in GPA really matters that much. Plenty of people get into MD schools with the same stats as the mean of a DO school.

Wait 10-20 years and DO will be right up there with MD in application competitiveness, assuming osteopathy isn't gobbled up the AMA.

 

[skypilot]

As I mentioned in another thread, there are about 30 DOs on the faculty at UMass med. There are also DOs on the faculty at Hopkins and Stanford in Orthopedics and Cardiology. My motto is usually if it is good enough for Stanford and Hopkins it is probably good enough for me.

Lets say you are an older married student and you want to stay near your spouse and you live in Maine. You go to NECOM because it is the only medical school in Maine.

 

[Shinken]

(Damn it! It's so hard not to get sucked into these useless discussions!!)

OK. Gary5, your opinion of DO's is pretty ignorant and naive. All you need to do is spend some time in a hospital or clinic where DO's and MD's work together (yes, they do work together without killing each other). I've known many physicians as a patient and as a pre-med and the best so far has been a DO that graduated from Midwestern in Chicago. He blew away all the MD's I know both in bedside manner, clinical knowledge and clinical skill. Does that mean that DO's are better than MD's? Of course not, but that means that DO's can be excellent physicians. How else would you explain the fact that DO's can be licensed without restrictions in all 50 states, can do any specialty and are even the directors of allopathic medical programs in universities and hospitals all over the US? Think about it. Like someone said, a GPA difference of 0.2 is meaningless, and so is the MCAT (how many times as a physician will you need to do quick velocity and acceleration calculations, or figure out organic reactions, or figure out which statement, if true, would most likely weaken someone's argument?)

How would you feel if you go to Stritch in Chicago and one of your patients says "Oh...your numbers must not have been good enough for Pritzker so you had to settle for Stritch." Guess what...you can become a good physician whether you go to either school, or a DO school, or Harvard or whatever. It's up to you, not up to the school to make you a good physician.

Like my hero Quinn said (and he's an actual physician, not a pre-med), when you go to the ER you don't have a choice. You've probably been treated by a DO and don't even know it.

Enough said. Good luck and peace!

 

[JM.]

Originally posted by chaeymaey
I like that whole "pimp" thing. It's really funny. I think I'll use that.

That's sort of like saying - hey I really like that "cool" word all the kids are using these days, I will use it too. Everyone on the wards knows what pimping is.

 

[donnyfire]

Originally posted by Shinken
Like someone said, a GPA difference of 0.2 is meaningless, and so is the MCAT (how many times as a physician will you need to do quick velocity and acceleration calculations, or figure out organic reactions, or figure out which statement, if true, would most likely weaken someone's argument?)

so true