Is getting a 30 on MCAT really that hard?

[ILoveIceCream]

MCAT: JUST TRY YOUR BEST....DOESN'T MATTER AS LONG AS YOU'RE 27+

GPA: DO WELL!!!!!!!!!

Me: 3.3 Overall, 3.04 BCPM
32P Mcat


Applied to 17 Schools
1 Interview - waiting to hear...

GPA needs to be good...mcat just makes sure you're test-smart.....

That's another thing about the mcat. It places everyone on the same starting line and it lets you see how far you can go. There are many people with extremely high GPAs because their major's easy or their undergraduate's easy. I know. Send me hate messages (but you know that deep down it's true, why else would some people change majors while are still being premed?). If you've got a 3.5+ GPA and you cant crack a 9, or even an 8 in a science section, something is definitely wrong. Of course, this is not true for everyone. Some people are great at memorizing and regurgitating. But that's not what the MCAT is about. Try to memorize all 4 subjects that are on the Princeton review books and tell me if you tore up the MCAT. The MCAT is a thinking test. As for GPA being something that shows your consistency...well, I can't argue with that one. But if I was on the admission, I would pick someone from Hopkins with a 2.8 GPA any day over someone who got a 4.0 from X Community College.

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[DoctorPardi]

I still don't understand why GPAs are weighted heavier for admission purposes rather than MCAT scores.

Because a good gpa shows a consistent committment to high achievement whereas taking the MCAT has to do with test taking skills, how much time you prepared, how quality the time was that you prepared, and of course how smart you are and how well you retain information.

It isn't like most people who have 4.0s have all the laws of physics and laws of chemistry memorized and should be able to go in and knock the MCAT out with no study time. It is very likely that a person with a 3.0 who didn't study incredibly hard for his classes and made B's could make a 35-40 on the MCAT.

So I think showing a consistent academic committment over a 4 year period is much more significant than doing well on one big test. Also I know different schools do things differently, if every school graded exactly the same, ie we all took scantron tests and just had them graded for right/wrong answers then there would be no point in the MCAT. The whole point of the MCAT is to make sure the 4.0 from University of Nowherere is worth a 4.0. If you have a 4.0 and you make a 20 on your mcat clearly there is a problem. So I think the MCAT should be used as a system to determine the validity of a GPA rather than a stand alone tool.

 

[Anastasis]

That's another thing about the mcat. It places everyone on the same starting line and it lets you see how far you can go. There are many people with extremely high GPAs because their major's easy or their undergraduate's easy. I know. Send me hate messages (but you know that deep down it's true, why else would some people change majors while are still being premed?). If you've got a 3.5+ GPA and you cant crack a 9, or even an 8 in a science section, something is definitely wrong. Of course, this is not true for everyone. Some people are great at memorizing and regurgitating. But that's not what the MCAT is about. Try to memorize all 4 subjects that are on the Princeton review books and tell me if you tore up the MCAT. The MCAT is a thinking test. As for GPA being something that shows your consistency...well, I can't argue with that one. But if I was on the admission, I would pick someone from Hopkins with a 2.8 GPA any day over someone who got a 4.0 from X Community College.

Perhaps because they enjoy it.

 

[eastsidaz]

Because a good gpa shows a consistent committment to high achievement whereas taking the MCAT has to do with test taking skills, how much time you prepared, how quality the time was that you prepared, and of course how smart you are and how well you retain information.

It isn't like most people who have 4.0s have all the laws of physics and laws of chemistry memorized and should be able to go in and knock the MCAT out with no study time. It is very likely that a person with a 3.0 who didn't study incredibly hard for his classes and made B's could make a 35-40 on the MCAT.

So I think showing a consistent academic committment over a 4 year period is much more significant than doing well on one big test. Also I know different schools do things differently, if every school graded exactly the same, ie we all took scantron tests and just had them graded for right/wrong answers then there would be no point in the MCAT. The whole point of the MCAT is to make sure the 4.0 from University of Nowherere is worth a 4.0. If you have a 4.0 and you make a 20 on your mcat clearly there is a problem. So I think the MCAT should be used as a system to determine the validity of a GPA rather than a stand alone tool.

Yeah I agree with that...it's supposed to be an equalizer, like every standardized test--a way to compare across the board. At the same time though, I don't think it's fair to write off poor test-taking ability. Being a doctor is supposed to be about grace under pressure. If you can't handle a high-pressure test, that should count against you heavily IMO. But you're right--it isn't fair to just take geniuses who can get a 45 but who have shown absolutely no work ethic over time in college.

 

[OctoDoc]

This is blatently false. I am proof you can have sub-30 and be fine and I'm no genius. See for yourself and take this website with a grain of salt.

Nothing medicomel said was false. You are an example of exactly what he was talking about.

Medicomel said that it is difficult, not impossible. I'd bet that you got in due to your awesome ECs, one of the things that medicomel mentioned that shores up a sub-30 MCAT score.

 

[dbhvt]

Whatever. How about this, this, this and this. Over most of the subsections, you have to get a raw score of a D+ or C- to get the scaled score of a 10.

I'm not sure what you're talking about. All of those links (except one that doesn't show overall) show that a 30 overall is around 75-80 percentile. And they don't say anything about raw scores.

 

[Flopotomist]

I am always amazed that so many intelligent people that can score 30+ on the MCAT are completely unable to parse basic statistics. A 28+ on the MCAT is reasonably OK. Will you get into your first choice? Maybe not... Do you stand a fair chance at getting in SOMEWHERE? absolutely.

Oh. and uhm... if you are in HS and asking this - get SOME kind of a hobby and stay off of SDN until you are at least a junior in college. Good luck!

 

[NonTradMed]

You CAN cram for a week and score a 38...it's been proven, by my brother.

And I could win the $100 million lotto tomorrow but chances are, it aint going to happen. I was speaking in terms of statistics. It's not feasible for most people to 'cram for a week and score a 38'.

Good for your brother though.

 

[Brickhouse]

wtf is that in your avatar lol?

LOL - you mean you don't like Sam, the world's ugliest dog? He was blind and had some vocal cord disorder too so he sounded like a dying chicken - I've seen footage. May he rest in peace.

 

[LJDHC05]

LOL - you mean you don't like Sam, the world's ugliest dog? He was blind and had some vocal cord disorder too so he sounded like a dying chicken - I've seen footage. May he rest in peace.

poor sam...he was such a beautiful and friendly creature. who couldnt love his green haunting eyes, his scaly bald skin and his "I'd rather gnaw your face off than be photographed" demeanor

 

[nmnrraven]

hey is getting a 30 really hard to do, im a senior in high school, and am jus curious about whether it is really difficult to get a 30 or above

A 30 is the 80th percentile of people who take the test. Only 5% of people in the world get a college education. Let's say that the people who take the test are a representive distribution of the people who are smart enough to go to college. So, a 30 is the top 20% of the top 5% of people. That means that you have to be better than 99% of the population to get a 30 on the MCAT. And when I say "better" I mean you have to be superior to them in every way, including in the eyes of God.

 

[kingcer0x]

I teach MCAT for Kaplan. Despite studying for 3-4 months, I'd say that 60-70% of students never break 30 on their practice tests.

Um, you guys scale test scores down to sell your product. Dont even say you don't.

 

[Brickhouse]

A 30 is the 80th percentile of people who take the test. Only 5% of people in the world get a college education. Let's say that the people who take the test are a representive distribution of the people who are smart enough to go to college. So, a 30 is the top 20% of the top 5% of people. That means that you have to be better than 99% of the population to get a 30 on the MCAT. And when I say "better" I mean you have to be superior to them in every way, including in the eyes of God.

awesome post, awesomer avatar

 

[MiesVanDerMom]

a rat done bit my sister Nell with Whitey on the moon

-gill scott heron

 

[medhacker]

It is and isn't. If you have over a 3.3 on your sciences there's no excuse for having anything below a 10 on either the B or PS sections. That just leaves verbal reasoning.

how about language barriers?

 

[top]

How hard is it? Depends entirely on who you ask. Let's say you're a humanities major from a good public school who has taken a grand total of two biology classes and knocks out a 39 on the first try. Then, not so hard. Let's say you're a double hard-science major from a good public school who took the MCAT twice and averaged a 28.5. Then, pretty damn tough.

However, I am of the firm opinion that if you work like nothing else mattered for 4 months, you can score a 30 no matter how bad you are at taking tests.

 

[Prospero]

Part of it is obviously going to be how well you take tests, which isn't something you can exactly get much better at (though it doesn't hurt to take several full practice MCATs). Other than that, its a little bit of luck (let's face it, there's always a little of that on standardized tests) and a lot of bit of how well you can apply information and reason. In my humble opinion anyway. Some people don't have to study for months on end to get over the 30 hump, and I would guess that those people are probably pretty good at applying knowledge rather than just spitting it back up on the bubble sheet. But what the hell do I know anyway.

 

[xlithiumx]

Part of it is obviously going to be how well you take tests, which isn't something you can exactly get much better at (though it doesn't hurt to take several full practice MCATs). Other than that, its a little bit of luck (let's face it, there's always a little of that on standardized tests) and a lot of bit of how well you can apply information and reason. In my humble opinion anyway. Some people don't have to study for months on end to get over the 30 hump, and I would guess that those people are probably pretty good at applying knowledge rather than just spitting it back up on the bubble sheet. But what the hell do I know anyway.

Please do not maintain a medical student blog. That is all.

 

[Will Ferrell]

how about language barriers?

doesn't having a B+ average in the sciences prove the language barrier has been broken?

 

[Chris127]

I agree. Many of the people on MDApps have GPAs that make me look like a drunken ******, yet can't break 30 on the MCAT? This makes no sense. If you guys were that good to get those high GPAs, then you should be well prepared for the MCAT. If not, then what does that say about GPAs? It never ceases to amaze that the subjective measure (GPA) is valued over the objective one (MCAT).

QFT

 

[45408]

Seriously, high schoolers need to stop posting here. Come back in a couple years and I'm sure everyone will be happy to answer your questions. Sorry if I seem harsh, but these questions are not constructive for us college pre-meds.

that's ridiculous. they need to plan ahead too, you know. picking your undergrad has a huge influence on what happens later.

 

[45408]

This is blatently false. I am proof you can have sub-30 and be fine and I'm no genius. See for yourself and take this website with a grain of salt.

yeah, because those 3.8/29 students are just lacking in the brains department, obviously. You're not at a disadvantage in the applicant pool - maybe the SDN pool, but not the general population.

It is and isn't. If you have over a 3.3 on your sciences there's no excuse for having anything below a 10 on either the B or PS sections. That just leaves verbal reasoning.

That's unnecessarily harsh. A lot of people have trouble working under pressure or extracting the salient details out of a passage. I have a friend with a GPA the same as mine - we studied together for tons of exams, and I scored 5 points higher than him on the PS.

 

[tennisguy896]

that's ridiculous. they need to plan ahead too, you know. picking your undergrad has a huge influence on what happens later.

Ridiculous? And what exactly is so constructive to a high schooler about knowing how hard it is to get a certain score on a test you might take in 4 years? They should be planning ahead, sure. They should be planning what college to go to, what majors they want to pursue, what extracurriculars they want to do, whether they actually want to pursue medicine. Again- I said I didn't mean to be harsh, so sorry if I came off that way.

 

[Chris127]

Ridiculous? And what exactly is so constructive to a high schooler about knowing how hard it is to get a certain score on a test you might take in 4 years? They should be planning ahead, sure. They should be planning what college to go to, what majors they want to pursue, what extracurriculars they want to do, whether they actually want to pursue medicine. Again- I said I didn't mean to be harsh, so sorry if I came off that way.

I agree with you here. Although, I dont even know if I should be here yet (frosh in undergrad) . I do like to come here and get information though, as I dont plan on taking another route anytime soon.

 

[MarzMD]

It is as hard as knowing and being able to apply basic science knowledge better than 80 percent of others that take the MCAT. End of story. Stop with all the anecdotal evidence of studying for 1 week vs. 4 months.

 

[tennisguy896]

I agree with you here. Although, I dont even know if I should be here yet (frosh in undergrad) . I do like to come here and get information though, as I dont plan on taking another route anytime soon.

I think it's a really good idea for all us pre-meds (college pre-meds that is) to use this site. Since you're already in college, I think it's great that you are using this site for info b/c it's an awesome resource (I kinda use it as a second pre-med advisor). My only caution to the high schoolers is that they may be unnecessarily closing doors to other disciplines that they haven't even experienced yet before they reach college. G'night!

 

[8744]

The key is to ace the verbal section. There is no excuse to get less than a 12. I'm always amused to see people reporting Physical Science and Biological Science scores of 13 and 13 and a verbal score of 6.

How is that possible?

 

[Medikit]

That's unnecessarily harsh. A lot of people have trouble working under pressure or extracting the salient details out of a passage. I have a friend with a GPA the same as mine - we studied together for tons of exams, and I scored 5 points higher than him on the PS.

how about language barriers?

I was making a general statement it won't always apply to outliers who somehow managed a decent GPA but have trouble working under pressure or understanding the language.

 

[leviathan]

The key is to ace the verbal section. There is no excuse to get less than a 12. I'm always amused to see people reporting Physical Science and Biological Science scores of 13 and 13 and a verbal score of 6.

How is that possible?

This is a scaled exam. Remember, it's judging your verbal ability compared to others, and not just verbal comprehension in general. That said, a lot of people who comprise the lower sub 10 grades are people who speak something besides English as their primary language, so from that perspective it shouldn't be overtly difficult if English is your mother tongue.

 

[SeventhSon]

hey is getting a 30 really hard to do, im a senior in high school, and am jus curious about whether it is really difficult to get a 30 or above

it depends whether or not you are planning on having lots of sex in college.

 

[dbhvt]

The key is to ace the verbal section. There is no excuse to get less than a 12. I'm always amused to see people reporting Physical Science and Biological Science scores of 13 and 13 and a verbal score of 6.

How is that possible?

13 13 6 means there's a language barrier, no question about it.

 

[dbhvt]

doesn't having a B+ average in the sciences prove the language barrier has been broken?

Where the hell did you people go to school? Don't they have international students there? Dude, you can get straight A's in the sciences without being able to step back and grasp the structure and nuances of the English language.

 

[DrKitty]

Where the hell did you people go to school? Don't they have international students there? Dude, you can get straight A's in the sciences without being able to step back and grasp the structure and nuances of the English language.

I agree. Even having straight As in the sciences doesn't mean you don't have the English language barrier. I am an immigrant

 

[Will Ferrell]

Where the hell did you people go to school? Don't they have international students there? Dude, you can get straight A's in the sciences without being able to step back and grasp the structure and nuances of the English language.

I can see physical sciences and math, but wouldn't it be hard to learn biology without understanding the language it is being taught in?

 

[91946]

I can see physical sciences and math, but wouldn't it be hard to learn biology without understand the language it is being taught in?

I'm with Dr. Kitty on this one. As an immigrant myself, I think it is much easier to do well in the science than in the verbal. With biology, you still have straightforward sentence structure and the terminlogy they used are "science terminology". Which is pretty much fair game for everyone. On the Verbal section, they can throw out advance literature and poetry which can be difficult for someone who has not mastered the english language completely.

 

[ShyRem]

English is one of the most difficult languages to truly master. It is full of idioms, dialects, innuendos, etc. While it may seems disgustingly simple to those of us who grew up with it, look around you. How many folks that grew up in America truly use the language properly? Very few. And that number is growing smaller every day. You see people all around you that cannot read the classics because they don't understand the language. They don't understand Shakespeare, Thoreau, Emily Dickenson, Edgar Allen Poe. And in many cases, they literally cannot pronounce the words and don't know what they mean. And they grew up in this country speaking English.

 

[Brickhouse]

The key is to ace the verbal section. There is no excuse to get less than a 12. I'm always amused to see people reporting Physical Science and Biological Science scores of 13 and 13 and a verbal score of 6.

How is that possible?

TROLL!

 

[Depakote]

Summary of Thread:

Some people just get the MCAT, other's don't.

 

[MsChatterbox]

This is a scaled exam. Remember, it's judging your verbal ability compared to others, and not just verbal comprehension in general. That said, a lot of people who comprise the lower sub 10 grades are people who speak something besides English as their primary language, so from that perspective it shouldn't be overtly difficult if English is your mother tongue.

English is not my mother tongue. I don't think not speaking english as a first language should be an excuse if you went to uni in the US .. as most people do as most med schools don't take people who haven't spent at least 1 year hear.

 

[MiesVanDerMom]

English is not my mother tongue. I don't think not speaking english as a first language should be an excuse if you went to uni in the US .. as most people do as most med schools don't take people who haven't spent at least 1 year hear.

If you're going to criticize other people's English language ability, learn to spell "here". My husband speaks beautiful English but I can imagine how much harder the verbal section would be for him. English is a nonsensical language.

 

[leviathan]

If you're going to criticize other people's English language ability, learn to spell "here". My husband speaks beautiful English but I can imagine how much harder the verbal section would be for him. English is a nonsensical language.

Exactly...you may be excellent and fluent in English, but you may never have the same deep understanding that a native speaker has. You won't even realize it, but English is so complicated that there are thousands of tiny minor nuances you would never even realize you were mistaken on, nor would anyone else. However when put under the task of a verbal reasoning exam where they want to test you on these really discrete yet minor rules of comprehension, many people may fail at it unless they learned English at a very young age.

For those who end up getting 6s or 7s, there is usually a definite and obvious language barrier in that person. However, I have ESL friends who are completely fluent in the language but can only get 8s or 9s. It wasn't until after that I started noticing these really minor discrepancies in their understanding that seem to happen only on rare occasions. Maybe these extremely minor shortcomings are what is preventing them from excelling on the MCAT? Just speculating here...

 

[Punkinhead]

Nothing medicomel said was false. You are an example of exactly what he was talking about.

Medicomel said that it is difficult, not impossible. I'd bet that you got in due to your awesome ECs, one of the things that medicomel mentioned that shores up a sub-30 MCAT score.

To everyone upset by my statement, perhaps I was a bit harsh. Yet, SDN gets people down if they are anything below excellent in any area at all. Sure, it's easier with higher MCAT, but 28-29 is not a killer. That was my only point (sulks away with tail between legs)

-p

 

[PhillyMD2006]

getting a 30 is very easy for those who don't consider english to be their first language. all it requires you to do is get a 15 on PS, a 15 on BS, and then you can get a 0 in VR, and still score a 30.

 

[Holistic]

I got in with less than 30, but I will say this, it is hard to score over a 30, and a lot of it involves luck, (test form, who your graded against)

 

[silkworm]

English is not my mother tongue. I don't think not speaking english as a first language should be an excuse if you went to uni in the US .. as most people do as most med schools don't take people who haven't spent at least 1 year hear.

It depends on at what age a non-native speaker came to US. I understand that for a immigrant who got here during high school the verbal section of MCAT may not be a fair assessment of their analytical and interpretative skills. But if someone got here before their teenage years and lived a middle-class life, then I feel their "non-native" status isn't so much of a excuse.

 

[Gavanshir]

What! English is eassssssyyyyyyyyyyyyy!

 

[titoincali]

What! English is eassssssyyyyyyyyyyyyy!

Just because it's easy for you doesn't mean English, in general, is an easy language. It's actually one of the more difficult languages for people to learn to speak well.

 

[peterpansy]

I'm an immigrant (moved to the states at the age of 12), fluent in English. I did relatively well on the verbal section, even though it was my lowest score. The problem I had with it wasn't comprehension. What bothered me most was that a lot of the questions ask you to interpret the passage, and assume that there is only one way to do that, and thus only one right answer. Maybe I just interpret things differently (whether it has something to do with upbringing, cultural differences, etc., or not). Just speculating here. Also, I know plenty of premeds who are native English speakers and still don't do well on the VR section. Most of the time they are the same people that never read a book unless it is required reading for a class. Makes sense why they would do better on the sciences. Not everyone who does poorly on VR is like that though - just pointing out that there may be different reasons that have nothing to do with how fluent one is in English.

 

[top]

i don't know what to think of the verbal section. strictly speaking, i am not a native english speaker -- i didn't speak any english until i was 7, which are arguably the most important years for learning a language. nevertheless, i pretty much consider myself to be a native speaker at this point, and i am graduating in may with an english degree and several awards to my name.

verbal was without question the hardest section for me, and it was my lowest score, although that is a relative term. i'm pretty happy with my VR, although i think i could have gotten 1-2 points higher on a good day.

i don't think english is that hard to learn, judging from my parents. try learning chinese (i'm not chinese, nor do i speak it).

 

[eastsidaz]

I'm an immigrant (moved to the states at the age of 12), fluent in English. I did relatively well on the verbal section, even though it was my lowest score. The problem I had with it wasn't comprehension. What bothered me most was that a lot of the questions ask you to interpret the passage, and assume that there is only one way to do that, and thus only one right answer. Maybe I just interpret things differently (whether it has something to do with upbringing, cultural differences, etc., or not). Just speculating here. Also, I know plenty of premeds who are native English speakers and still don't do well on the VR section. Most of the time they are the same people that never read a book unless it is required reading for a class. Makes sense why they would do better on the sciences. Not everyone who does poorly on VR is like that though - just pointing out that there may be different reasons that have nothing to do with how fluent one is in English.

I agree completely. I'm a native speaker who's aced every English class ever taken as well as two AP English tests. I even got a perfect score on the SAT -V. But the MCAT VR section is just random--it's impossible, almost, to not miss at least one or two, which automatically drops your score at least a point. The answers are hair-splitting nonsense, and the curve in that section is brutal. I don't think it has that much to do with whether or not someone is a native speaker.