Geo16

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http://www3.lattc.edu/pls/trade11/sc.ncatalog?in_subj=183&in_subject_number=070&in_subject_letter=&in_syr=316

There is a "Introductory Organic Chemistry (Chem 70)" course provided by nearby CC.



Now, there is a dilemma. Because this course can satisfy 1st semester of Organic Chemistry at UC Berkeley.

Organic Chemistry sequence at UC Berkeley looks like this:
30A & 30AL <--- Introductory Organic Chemistry at this CC will satisfy this portion.
30B & 30BL <--- Thus, after transfer, I must take this.

The thing is, there is already a full series of Organic Chemistry (Chem 211 and Chem 212) provided at this CC.


If I take this course, Chem 70, I can skip 30A and 30AL at UC Berkeley. However, I wonder how Med schools will look at "Introductory" Organic Chemistry course.

The whole post comes down to this question:
Can I take Introductory course to meet the requirement at Med school?o_O
 
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leonardoson

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I'll be taking an Intro to O-Chem at my uni which is a 300 level. Then advanced ochem. Don't worry, just check to make sure those credits transfer fine, if they do then that class is O-chem 1 in Berkeley's eyes.
 

gonnif

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There are some medical schools that directly speak to this idea of community college courses. This may give a little better insight in how the underlying “culture” or “attitude” of admission committee members, whether a formal policy or not, may perceive applicants who choose summer or community college coursework. While this list is not exhaustive, it is representative enough to help advise students who are considering such a step.

SUNY Upstate College of Medicine
http://www.upstate.edu/com/admissions/faqs.php
“Applicants should avoid taking more than one or two prerequisite science courses during the summer and avoid taking them at community colleges.”

Ichan School of Medicine at Mount Sinai
http://icahn.mssm.edu/education/medical/admissions/regular-track/requirements
Q: Can I take my courses at a community college, or must I take them at a four-year college or university?
A: We have no requirement about where you take courses, though the Committee on Admissions does take that into consideration in evaluating your application.


Johns Hopkins Medical School
http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/som/admissions/md/application_process/prerequisites_requirements.html
The School of Medicine accepts prerequisites completed at the community college level. In order to be competitive in the selection process, we encourage prospective applicants with community college prerequisites to supplement these courses by taking advanced courses in related subjects at their four year institution.

University of Florida College of Medicine
http://admissions.med.ufl.edu/faq/#community_college
Q: Can I take the prerequisite courses at my local community/junior college?
A: In order to create the most academically competitive application you should take all prerequisite courses at the most competitive bachelor’s degree granting institution where you can gain entrance. You should try to complete your pre-requisite courses at a four-year institution


Albert Einstein College of Medicine
https://www.einstein.yu.edu/educati...pplication-procedure/course-requirements.aspx
Whereas course work at a four-year college or university is our benchmark, if a student chooses to meet a competency component via an alternate route such as through laboratory experience, through an advanced placement course, a course taken at a community college, a course taken abroad (during a semester abroad for which the undergraduate U.S. degree-granting institution gives credit, or for which AMCAS will verify and report the grade), or an online course, he or she should seek guidance from his or her advisor to ensure that the option meets the above guidelines as well as the rigorous academic standard required by the Albert Einstein College of Medicine.

George Washington University
http://smhs.gwu.edu/academics/md-program/admissions/faqs#communitycollege
Do you accept community college credits?
Yes. The Committee on Admissions does accept coursework taken at a community college; however, it is preferable to have the pre-medical coursework taken at a four-year college or university.


Florida State University College of Medicine
http://med.fsu.edu/?page=mdAdmissions.admissionRequirement
Listed below is the pre-requisite coursework required for all matriculates to the FSU COM. Advanced Placement, CLEP, and dual enrollment credits fulfill the course requirements. However, courses taken in a traditional classroom at a four-year institution are considered to be more academically competitive.

Lewis Katz School of Medicine at Temple University
https://medicine.temple.edu/education/md-program/admissions/requirements
Two pre-requisite science courses can be fulfilled with AP credits, community college courses or through a study abroad program.

Texas A&M Health Sciences Center College of Medicine
http://medicine.tamhsc.edu/admissions/apply/index.html
Policy on AP Credits, Credits by Exam, and Dual Credit
We generally prefer that applicants take the prerequisite courses at 4-year accredited colleges and universities rather than utilize advanced placement credits, credits by exam, dual-credit, pass/fail course work or community college courses. We do not dismiss these credits; and, if they have been taken, we will accept them toward meeting the prerequisites. In fact, if an applicant has placed out of a required level course, we will also accept another course in that discipline at the same or higher level. Again, our preference is that applicants take graded courses at 4-year institutions, particularly the prerequisites in the biological sciences and the chemistry series.

Virginia Commonwealth University School of Medicine
http://www.medschool.vcu.edu/admissions/md/faq/#q43
Are community college classes accepted as prerequisite course credit?
They may be, but the Admissions Committee generally expects students to complete all prerequisite courses at a four-year undergraduate institution.

Yale
https://medicine.yale.edu/education/admissions/apply/premed.aspx
Pre-medical courses must be completed in a U.S., U.K., or Canadian college or university. U.S. Community College courses are acceptable, provided that the courses include laboratory work and are comparable in content to courses at four-year colleges, universities, or institutes of technology.

Weill Cornell
http://weill.cornell.edu/education/admissions/app_faq.html
Can I take my prerequisite courses at a Community College?
It is not recommended.



 
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Geo16

Geo16

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I'll be taking an Intro to O-Chem at my uni which is a 300 level. Then advanced ochem. Don't worry, just check to make sure those credits transfer fine, if they do then that class is O-chem 1 in Berkeley's eyes.
Nice. So as long as it transfers to UC Berkeley, I am fine. Hoping that I can get to 30B and 30BL and continue on with the rest of organic chemistry requirement.
I've found this out on Assist.org which is a streamlined way to find out if Chem70 will transfer over. It will transfer over and it will count as Chem 30A and 30AL.
Thank you very much.

And also, aren't 300 series considered as Graduate level? At least at UC, it's like 0-99 LowerDivision 100-200 Upperdivision then 200-300 Graduate/seminar/research

There are some medical schools that directly speak to this idea of community college courses.
Although I appreciate this info, this isn't what I'm asking for.
I'm asking whether taking Introductory Organic Chemistry over regular Organic Chemistry would cause any problem.
 
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leonardoson

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Nice. So as long as it transfers to UC Berkeley, I am fine. Hoping that I can get to 30B and 30BL and continue on with the rest of organic chemistry requirement.
I've found this out on Assist.org which is a streamlined way to find out if Chem70 will transfer over. It will transfer over and it will count as Chem 30A and 30AL.
Thank you very much.

And also, aren't 300 series considered as Graduate level? At least at UC, it's like 0-99 LowerDivision 100-200 Upperdivision then 200-300 Graduate/seminar/research
Every University is different with their course numbers. At mine 100=freshman, 200=sophomore and so on. 300 and 400 level classes are the upper division classes. The "Advanced" O-chem is actually a 400 level class here. It's a small, private, liberal arts college. One chem major told me they made O-chem a higher level because they needed more upper division credits for their chem majors.
 

AnatomyGrey12

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Don't take courses at a CC just to get around taking the weeder courses at your UC. Adcoms see right through this.
 
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Geo16

Geo16

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Every University is different with their course numbers. At mine 100=freshman, 200=sophomore and so on. 300 and 400 level classes are the upper division classes. The "Advanced" O-chem is actually a 400 level class here. It's a small, private, liberal arts college. One chem major told me they made O-chem a higher level because they needed more upper division credits for their chem majors.
Whoa. I see. Yeah, figured it was just upper division.
I have no idea how Liberal Arts College works. Just know that LACs provide a rich learning environment.
Also, the faculty:student ratio is low and most courses are enrolled by 10 to 15 students.
^
I NEED THIS.

Don't take courses at a CC just to get around taking the weeder courses at your UC. Adcoms see right through this.
Yeah, if I don't get accepted to UC Berkeley, I can just complete the series at UCLA or USC with regular organic chemistry- since Chem 70 isn't equivalent to any courses at UCLA or USC.
Plus, it'll give me an overview of Organic Chemistry and Bio Chemistry if I take that course.
 

LizzyM

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What I'm gathering here at SDN is that education in California is different that elsewhere in that many students are funneled into the community college system for 2 years and then permitted to transfer to a flagship state university to finish. I suppose some of the rationale for this is cost for both the student and the state budget. I guess the big question then becomes how California schools and other schools view California residents who took this route.

Then again, some people go straight to UC Berkeley, UCLA, etc and taking the first 2 years at a CC may be a way of classifying students into two groups one of which is considered the stronger academically.
 

gonnif

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What I'm gathering here at SDN is that education in California is different that elsewhere in that many students are funneled into the community college system for 2 years and then permitted to transfer to a flagship state university to finish. I suppose some of the rationale for this is cost for both the student and the state budget. I guess the big question then becomes how California schools and other schools view California residents who took this route.

Then again, some people go straight to UC Berkeley, UCLA, etc and taking the first 2 years at a CC may be a way of classifying students into two groups one of which is considered the stronger academically.
I have heard from admissions people at Stanford medical school that they do not look down at California CC's . Conversely I once had a conversation with one of UC admissions directors who seemed to not recommend them, It also doesnt help right now that the 113 CC in California are transitioning accreditation process
https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2016/03/08/california-community-colleges-navigate-path-replacing-or-overhauling-accreditor
 

leonardoson

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Whoa. I see. Yeah, figured it was just upper division.
I have no idea how Liberal Arts College works. Just know that LACs provide a rich learning environment.
Also, the faculty:student ratio is low and most courses are enrolled by 10 to 15 students.
^
I NEED THIS.
Well Liberal Arts colleges are focused on undergrad academics. They have small class sizes, which I like. Also the rigor of this university was about 4x that of the community college I went to. Since the class sizes are smaller, they push us harder since the professors almost expect you to come running for help on the problem sets. At least the physics department runs that way. Make the homework extremely hard so you can come and learn more through 1 on 1 sessions.
 
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Geo16

Geo16

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What I'm gathering here at SDN is that education in California is different that elsewhere in that many students are funneled into the community college system for 2 years and then permitted to transfer to a flagship state university to finish. I suppose some of the rationale for this is cost for both the student and the state budget. I guess the big question then becomes how California schools and other schools view California residents who took this route.

Then again, some people go straight to UC Berkeley, UCLA, etc and taking the first 2 years at a CC may be a way of classifying students into two groups one of which is considered the stronger academically.
UCs are required to admit certain number of California transfer students each year. That includes UC Berkeley and UCLA. It does, however, bring their reputation down because it demises the effort of Freshman admits (the Freshman admits have to have 4.0+ wGPA and rigorous ECs in order to get into UCLA or UC Berkeley; whereas transfer students just have to maintain their GPA close to 4.0). That is, until you realize that Freshman admits have the same system as well. I remember UCLA doing a dedicated LA (LAUSD, etc.) pool for their high school senior applicants. And then admit certain number of students within the LA region. Other UCs, admit California high school seniors who places in top 15% in their high school, which guarantees their admission to any one of UCs other than UCB and UCLA. So it's true that freshman admits only have to maintain high GPA like transfer students.

Your question was, how residents in California feels about this? It varies.
These are from my experience.
Students-
There might be some students at UCLA and UC Berkeley who might feel "unfair." Like here http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-california-berkeley/920133-does-anyone-else-feel-like-majority-of-transfer-students-here-are-grossly-subpar-p1.html

But as far as I've heard, there are just a lot of students at each UC campus that students don't bother to track down other students. So not a lot of students bother to care. I've met a lot of UC students who were there for full 4 years. Most of them said they do not care and some of them praise transfer students who excel in their upper division courses.


Residents-
The residents in California are varied as well. Some of the residents feel that transfer students are sub-par. UCs have been this way for a long time and most people encourage all students to work hard whether they are freshman or transfer students. In highschool, teachers and other students encourage students to go to UC right away. In real life, people care more about the rigors between UC and privates or UC and CSU. For example, it's way harder for CSU students to get into med schools in California than transfer students at UCs. And they like to compare UCs with USC, Stanford, Cal Tech and Pomona College. You can see plenty of this from Berkeley vs Stanford and UCLA vs USC rivalry in Olympics and football. They are more occupied with this rivalry between schools rather than freshman admit vs transfer admit on each school.


Well..
Some of my friends rejected their admission offer from UCs like UCLA or UC Berkeley and went to CC- for their own personal reasons. There weren't many academic reasons why people just choose to go to CC. So it might be unfair to say that transfer students are academically less stronger- given that transfer students are able to excel in UC system as well. Either that, freshman admits only had to maintain As and Bs to earn their spot at UC- which resembles how CC students enter UC.
 
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Geo16

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Well Liberal Arts colleges are focused on undergrad academics. They have small class sizes, which I like. Also the rigor of this university was about 4x that of the community college I went to. Since the class sizes are smaller, they push us harder since the professors almost expect you to come running for help on the problem sets. At least the physics department runs that way. Make the homework extremely hard so you can come and learn more through 1 on 1 sessions.
Yeah, my cousin went to one of LAC. Pomona College; I've been there twice and I was in awe with the environment. I've went to USC and UCLA plenty of times all through out my life. LAC felt way better in terms of life quality and academic quality. Big campus wasn't my type. But my dream is to attend Berkeley. Berkeley has been my dream school my entire life :D Doesn't matter if Berkeley has a lot of people and it's chaos; I want to attend Berkeley :D
 
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TheBiologist

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it sounds like 211 and 212 are the "legit" orgo course; talk to the registrar and see if you can petition to get 211 to count for 30A at UCB
 
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Geo16

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it sounds like 211 and 212 are the "legit" orgo course; talk to the registrar and see if you can petition to get 211 to count for 30A at UCB
On assist.org, it says Chem 70 will transfer as Chem 30A and 30AL at UC Berkeley.
:D
 

henleys5

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I can't afford post-bacc programs and my undergrad GPA is low. So if i were to start over, should i take these courses? I know most med schools don't take online courses but it seems like these schools offer classes that are designed for premed.

Who do i talk to to know which courses to take or do i just need 90 units of these pre-med courses total?

(it won't allow me to include links. I was talking about the online pre-health courses that are offered at University of new england and Colorado State university)
 

gonnif

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I can't afford post-bacc programs and my undergrad GPA is low. So if i were to start over, should i take these courses? I know most med schools don't take online courses but it seems like these schools offer classes that are designed for premed.

Who do i talk to to know which courses to take or do i just need 90 units of these pre-med courses total?

(it won't allow me to include links. I was talking about the online pre-health courses that are offered at University of new england and Colorado State university)
Most schools will not accept online prereqs, even these that seem to be designed for premeds