Is it a bad idea to go to podiatry school because .

[Duped]

---

Members do not see this ad.

Perusing is an engaging way to check things out, and sound highfalutin when you discover something unexpectedly charming, but don't want to let your cool down.

I thought the foot rap, wrapped up, but there's that podiatry speak again. The "we do things better" rap, colored with the count: "look how much money we're going to make." The whole future-tense thing MUST be accurate. Why? Based on the "Because I said so," doctrine of 1602 when fenestration wasn't merely tossing something out the window it meant it'd hit the ground and splatter. Personally, now that I know that they make two hundred thousand dollars a year to podiat about, splatter patrol must be worth every cent. Kind of like falling off a fiscal cliff with an anchor, and a handful of hefty podiatrists....Does that come with a Scooter Chair?

 

[hematosis]

When folks have a foot problem--docs, lay people, etc,,, a DPM/podiatrist does not immediately come to mind regardless of how much podiatric indoctrination/brainwashing goes on with podiatric training schools and post graduate programs.

Wound care has been done for decades by RNs, PAs, NPs, etc....a wound care dressage specialist that can only treat feet and sometimes ankles? Why can;'t a RN or PA/NP, DNP do this--this an ACA/CMS triple aim world--cost cutting, cost effectiveness.

Creating a need,sales versus meeting a need--integral. Podiatry must create a need, agita, sales. A dentist is integral, a GI specialist, or chest cracker will not fix a tooth, yet a podiatrists role can be done by many folks. Nor are there seperate molar and incisor boards like pods--forefoot v. rearfoot--?!?! a money maker for foot clubs to sell exams and further complicates things in a world of only ~6k FT podiatrics practitioners.

A DPM can hinder folks in the real world, and can be a scarlet letter. All the chest thumping and visions for decades have done little to nothing to help showcase the talents of a podiatrist. All those fees, dues, etc...for sockathons, which boots are good, and bunions gone bad.

Seriously, if folks want to be a physician, be a physician through ACGME/LCME/ABMS robust training, either wise to remain at status quo is dying.

I'm going assume you are just joking here. To say that wound care use to be done by nurses and suggest that we revert back to this state is equivalent of me saying that years back there existed no specialist and that all avenues of medicine was practiced by generalist (surgery, internal, family, psych,etc etc). Thus we should model our current system back to Greek times

I just have one question for you. If our skills can be done by RN's and PA's then why are hospitals hiring podiatrist? I'm pretty sure you can hire a couple of PA's or a few nurses for each no good pod? Why are there more podiatrist's in hospitals and ortho groups today than say...10 or 20 years ago? Are these people stupid?

Again, you have still not answered my previous question as to why you are so bitter about this profession. You've been ignored on the pod forums and so you come here on the premed forums spreading false information (like GMAT is an acceptable admission test for pod school). I just think its pretty pathetic. How much lower can a person get?

 

[SpecterGT260]

Interestingly, I searched my hospital's site for "DPM" and got 3 hits. HR papers that ask "list all _____ (every medical degree including nurses, pharmacists, and dentists)".

Mercy Chicago (just to reference a major med center) only had 4 hits. All the same dude as a part of an ortho group.

Searched "MD" and got over 2000 hits, with all top results being faculty pages.

 

[hematosis]

Interestingly, I searched my hospital's site for "DPM" and got 3 hits. HR papers that ask "list all _____ (every medical degree including nurses, pharmacists, and dentists)".

Mercy Chicago (just to reference a major med center) only had 4 hits. All the same dude as a part of an ortho group.

Searched "MD" and got over 2000 hits, with all top results being faculty pages.

Interesting. I just did one during my lunch break at Boston Unv. School of Med and found more podiatrist than ped surgeons, cardiac surgeons, thoracic surgery, transplant surgeons, vascular , colon and a few more...surgeon... http://www.bumc.bu.edu/surgery/clinical_services/vascular-surgery/
might be more appropriate to compare specialist with specialist. I'm pretty sure there are more nurses than physicians.

 

[SpecterGT260]

Interesting. I just did one during my lunch break at Boston Unv. School of Med and found more podiatrist than ped surgeons, cardiac surgeons, thoracic surgery, transplant surgeons, vascular , colon and a few more...surgeon... http://www.bumc.bu.edu/surgery/clinical_services/vascular-surgery/
might be more appropriate to compare specialist with specialist. I'm pretty sure there are more nurses than physicians.

Hey, chickie, you said it, not me

interesting that now you compare pods to nurses (I know you didn't intend to... but technically you did 😉)

 

[Duped]

Interesting indeed. I just did a search of popular cultural icons, iconic phrases, and fictional characters, and came up with this fascinating find Captain Kirk: According to the "Lovin' Spoonful," the lyrics beg the questions: "Doctor doctor man, mister MD can you tell me what's ailin' me." Therefore, based upon the lyrics of the tie dye founders, and perpetrators of early rock music in the twentieth century, there was no reference to the letters DPM, or to women doctors either. Therefore using Vulcan logic, I think that's like podspeak, it would follow that there were no women doctors in the twentieth century.

 

[SpecterGT260]

Clicked your link. You are back to that math thing that you arent so hot at.

There are 5 DPMs at BU. You said yourself, specialists vs specialists. So then you cherrypick the specialties which always have very few people in them? You mentioned earlier that you would consult vasc if it was warranted.... that isnt an appropriate comparison as it is someone you will refer out to. Pods are foot generalists, so compare to FM, ortho, gsurg, IM, any of those. To go after vascular surgery as your example is just silly. The point is - you are making arguments that are ridiculously poorly constructed. I am not even weighing in on the importance of pods with this post, just the validity of your statement. You said "if they are replaceable why are they being hired?" well.... It looks like hospitals are hiring very few relatively speaking. Best come up with a new argument, one that isn't as bad as your NRMP match stats argument.

as an aside, did you pick BU off the top of your head or did you search around first before finding a hospital that had 1 team attached to 1 residency?

 

[hematosis]

Clicked your link. You are back to that math thing that you arent so hot at.

There are 5 DPMs at BU. You said yourself, specialists vs specialists. So then you cherrypick the specialties which always have very few people in them? You mentioned earlier that you would consult vasc if it was warranted.... that isnt an appropriate comparison as it is someone you will refer out to. Pods are foot generalists, so compare to FM, ortho, gsurg, IM, any of those. To go after vascular surgery as your example is just silly. The point is - you are making arguments that are ridiculously poorly constructed. I am not even weighing in on the importance of pods with this post, just the validity of your statement. You said "if they are replaceable why are they being hired?" well.... It looks like hospitals are hiring very few relatively speaking. Best come up with a new argument, one that isn't as bad as your NRMP match stats argument.

as an aside, did you pick BU off the top of your head or did you search around first before finding a hospital that had 1 team attached to 1 residency?

actually a lot of specialists consult each other...medicine is a team approach if you have not learned that yet. That is not grounds to call them generalist lol.

 

[SpecterGT260]

actually a lot of specialists consult each other...medicine is a team approach if you have not learned that yet. That is not grounds to call them generalist lol.

Yeah nothing I said indicates that I didnt understand that. But your "apples to apples" argument citing vascular would indicate that there are quite a few things you don't get

Here is the thing - you are still deflecting every time one of your "arguments" is challenged. You still have not addressed the bulk of anything anyone has said against you..... It's weird... because I can't tell if you know you are arguing yourself into a corner and are being stubborn or if you really don't get why your points are so weak. It makes it difficult to continue a discussion in any constructive way.

 

[Duped]

In podspeak there is an accompanying equation along the lines of Mandlbrot's Randomness Theory. However the fractals take on a different meaning, and the translation from podspeak, is the Jabroni Spaghetti Toss Theory. It goes something like this: You toss a bunch of noodles at the wall, however they stick, slide, or fall represents a reliable number to predict how all spaghetti will react to a toss. It isn't an easy language, but I'm learning.

 

[hematosis]

Clicked your link. You are back to that math thing that you arent so hot at.

There are 5 DPMs at BU. You said yourself, specialists vs specialists. So then you cherrypick the specialties which always have very few people in them? You mentioned earlier that you would consult vasc if it was warranted.... that isnt an appropriate comparison as it is someone you will refer out to. Pods are foot generalists, so compare to FM, ortho, gsurg, IM, any of those. To go after vascular surgery as your example is just silly. The point is - you are making arguments that are ridiculously poorly constructed. I am not even weighing in on the importance of pods with this post, just the validity of your statement. You said "if they are replaceable why are they being hired?" well.... It looks like hospitals are hiring very few relatively speaking. Best come up with a new argument, one that isn't as bad as your NRMP match stats argument.

as an aside, did you pick BU off the top of your head or did you search around first before finding a hospital that had 1 team attached to 1 residency?

But we also refer to IM or FM if we find that patients have some systemic disease that was missed by the primary doc. So...by your logic we shouldn't compare to these guys either b/c clearly it is common for pods to refer patients to their primary doc.
lol, i am starting to think that perhaps i am arguing with a robot here. just curious but are you in medical school or did you just get accepted this year? (not trying to be funny because this would explain a lot of things)

 

[shadesofgrey]

Are podiatrists MDs? No, but many of us have little man syndrome and like to think we are 😎.

Are we as well trained? No. However we are trying to improve the quality of education, and reach parity with MD's. I think podiatrists are at the point where they could theoretically treat a systemic disease because we have received the "training/knowledge", but we aren't there yet. In some ways how a radiologist has the knowledge base to manage diabetes, but you aren't going to go to the radiologist for care. If a DPM wants to manage a systemic condition you should probably run away, best case scenario he was competent during residency; worst case, well it is your life...

Are we more than capable of handling medical situations of the lower extremity? Yes, we can handle anything in the foot and ankle. I'm not saying we are better than MD's, but we are just as competent. Thus far in my limited experience (stress this), DPM's tend to get along with most MD's, the exception being the occasional orthopedic surgeon. We work with vascular surgeons a lot and get most referrals from PCPs. With PACA being implemented and the current physician shortage I don't quite understand why anyone would suggest a reduction in the role DPM's provide. 😕

Specter- There is a DPM residency at what I'm assuming is the same Mercy hospital, but I'm not from Chicago area and could be wrong.

http://www.mercy-chicago.org/mercy-podiatry

Either way most DPM's don't currently work at hospitals anyway, and there are fewer than 14k active pods. To borrow your banana analogy (which I really liked): Don't hate my plantain cause there are so many bananas. 👍

Not sure what we did to the troll, but I can only imagine it must have been pretty bad for this guy to constantly post. Kinda makes me nervous knowing someone hates me this badly 😏...

 

[SpecterGT260]

That is beside the point. My argument was that you cherrypicked the few specialties that were in lower numbers at ONE hospital than pods in order to make your point - a severely intellectually questionable action.

am I in medical school? Pray tell, what would it explain? My understanding of simple math, avoidance of pod buzzword acronyms, and general ability to spot a cop-out argument when I see one? We havent been arguing medicine, clinical roles, or anything of that matter, so my credentials (MS2, btw) are simply not relevant to this discussion. It doesnt take a physician to point out a poor argument.

Lets do a rundown:

You stated that most grads go to IM on the basis that most caribbean grads go IM - this is ridiculous
You stated that Caribbean grads make up 20% of the match and that we will have lunch and go for walks (or something equally silly) because you don't understand the NRMP figures that you like to quote - this is ridiculous
You stated that nobody can do what you guys do on the basis of FM docs not knowing ped pulse values off the top of their heads - this is ridiculous
You stated that pods are a vital service (which they very well be) on the basis that hospitals have hired them - this is ridiculous.

Your intent usually is fine. You want to defend podiatry. Your arguments to do so are, as previously mentioned, ridiculous 🙂 Sorry... but that is what you are doing. Most of us had settled in the middle on a realistic set of agreements and understanding, then you came in to swing wildly to the outfield and started making claims that are simply logically indefensible. So please, oh learned pod student on clinicals, what has your limited exposure to the clinic taught you about medicine that is pertinent to any of your false claims or this discussion that I am lacking? It isn't ok to strawman my argument into oblivion by taking any technicality you can find and pouncing. Why don't you try intelligently addressing the points rather than deflecting and committing nearly every argumentative logical fallacy in the book 👍

 

[SpecterGT260]

Are podiatrists MDs? No, but many of us have little man syndrome and like to think we are 😎.

Are we as well trained? No. However we are trying to improve the quality of education, and reach parity with MD's. I think podiatrists are at the point where they could theoretically treat a systemic disease because we have received the "training/knowledge", but we aren't there yet. In some ways how a radiologist has the knowledge base to manage diabetes, but you aren't going to go to the radiologist for care. If a DPM wants to manage a systemic condition you should probably run away, best case scenario he was competent during residency; worst case, well it is your life...

Are we more than capable of handling medical situations of the lower extremity? Yes, we can handle anything in the foot and ankle. I'm not saying we are better than MD's, but we are just as competent. Thus far in my limited experience (stress this), DPM's tend to get along with most MD's, the exception being the occasional orthopedic surgeon. We work with vascular surgeons a lot and get most referrals from PCPs. With PACA being implemented and the current physician shortage I don't quite understand why anyone would suggest a reduction in the role DPM's provide. 😕

Specter- There is a DPM residency at what I'm assuming is the same Mercy hospital, but I'm not from Chicago area and could be wrong.

http://www.mercy-chicago.org/mercy-podiatry

Either way most DPM's don't currently work at hospitals anyway, and there are fewer than 14k active pods. To borrow your banana analogy (which I really liked): Don't hate my plantain cause there are so many bananas. 👍

Not sure what we did to the troll, but I can only imagine it must have been pretty bad for this guy to constantly post. Kinda makes me nervous knowing someone hates me this badly 😏...

Who do you think is hating on you? I'm not 😕 Nor would I appreciate much being called a troll in the allo forums.

If you look at the current discussion - I am not stating that pods are underqualified (that was Duped), I am not stating that pods are not of value, nor... really anything to that effect.

I mentioned chicago mercy because I was curiou about Halitosis's statement, and when a search of their site turned up nil I found it interesting - again, not as a reflection of podiatry, but as a reflection of her argument. I've personally rebuked Duped in here as well because I think his attitude weakens the discussion and makes things that much more hostile, but I don't hold him responsible for hemi here making elementary arguments and deflecting every challenge that comes her way.

However, I would disagree that pods are ready to treat systemic disease. Medical school (and the initial statement that pod school takes the same didactic courses) doesn't teach you to be a doctor. It trains you to be a resident, and THAT is where you learn to be a doctor. Pods focus on the lower extremity, and some general rotations in residency do not equal a dedicated program that an internist or specialist would take, or even FM for that matter. It was said here by both sides that you know what you are used to, and my experience has been that most things with some overlap seem easy until the thing that you didn't expect/werent aware of comes up to bite you in the ass.

Also, Im not 100% that residency programs must be "owned" by the hospital. It isnt uncommon for private hospitals like mercy to rent clinic space to practices, and by that reasoning there is at least potential that the residency faculty are not hospital faculty. The point is largely irrelevant, as I said I only included it as a response to hemis post about being hired by hospitals.

 

[shadesofgrey]

Specter- Not calling you the troll, sorry if that was unclear. Furthermore not sure that we are arguing about anything, and seem to be in agreement on most points. I was mainly just posting my thoughts on this thread in general. I had been following it but hadn't got around to posting, so its basically a reply to many posts throughout the thread. Really wasn't trying to be argumentative...

 

[SpecterGT260]

That's cool. I just wanted to clarify that. As I said earlier, it is hard to be perceived as level headed when trolls are about lighting things up while you are trying to respond to the arguments of someone who is making arguments from more of an emotional/reactionary position than a logical/fact based position.

 

[MaxillofacialMN]

Perusing*

Say "perusing". Sounds more refined. Gotta keep up appearances w these pod students about 👍

Sent from my DROID RAZR using SDN Mobile

Perusing and browsing are complete opposites.

To peruse something is to study it with great detail!

 

[SpecterGT260]

Perusing and browsing are complete opposites.

To peruse something is to study it with great detail!

I didnt say it had to be the same. I said it sounded better.

Don't follow hemi as an example here, young one. Don't call out nitpicks just to call them out 😉

 

[MaxillofacialMN]

I didnt say it had to be the same. I said it sounded better.

Don't follow hemi as an example here, young one. Don't call out nitpicks just to call them out 😉

Haha, I know. I just like chiming in on pointless details in this thread. It is VERY hard to follow what is happening when you came back after like 10 hours offline and there is a page full of long responses....

I'm supposed to be filling out a course eval for pchem right now, so naturally, I'll catch myself up on the banter occurring here instead.

 

[MaxillofacialMN]

I don't know why people keep getting caught up in the "medical" specialty garbage. Podiatry is podiatry. Who cares if we are a medical specialty or not?

Earlier Duped tried to emasculate us by saying we do not take the ABSITE. Who cares? Pods are NEVER going to have to do ANY general surgery, so why would we want to be qualified in it? It is ridiculous! We have the America Board of Podiatry Surgery for this reason. Our scope of practice limits us to (usually less) from the knee down. So why would any pod want to sit for the ABSITE if they will never be legally allowed to do 99.9% of what the exam covers? The same is true with pretty much everything else we are arguing about.
I don't care if we are "legally" a medical specialty or not. I don't care if we aren't accredited by the AAMC or if we don't sit for the USMLE. We don't need to!

I also won't argue that we need to know how to manage most systemic diseases. I am not a PCP. And so I really don't think that managing systemic diseases benefits my practice. I will treat/diagnose diseases as they present in the foot, but I do not think I need to manage the patients diabetes/heart disease. that's just silly.

 

[Duped]

I don't know why people keep getting caught up in the "medical" specialty garbage. Podiatry is podiatry. Who cares if we are a medical specialty or not?

Earlier Duped tried to emasculate us by saying we do not take the ABSITE. Who cares? Pods are NEVER going to have to do ANY general surgery, so why would we want to be qualified in it? It is ridiculous! We have the America Board of Podiatry Surgery for this reason. Our scope of practice limits us to (usually less) from the knee down. So why would any pod want to sit for the ABSITE if they will never be legally allowed to do 99.9% of what the exam covers? The same is true with pretty much everything else we are arguing about.
I don't care if we are "legally" a medical specialty or not. I don't care if we aren't accredited by the AAMC or if we don't sit for the USMLE. We don't need to!

I also won't argue that we need to know how to manage most systemic diseases. I am not a PCP. And so I really don't think that managing systemic diseases benefits my practice. I will treat/diagnose diseases as they present in the foot, but I do not think I need to manage the patients diabetes/heart disease. that's just silly.

I don't know what an ABSITE is, or care.

 

[hematosis]

I didnt say it had to be the same. I said it sounded better.

Don't follow hemi as an example here, young one. Don't call out nitpicks just to call them out 😉

Bottom line is podiatrist are the best at what they do and nobody comes close ( I dont really care if you agree or disagree) . I'm not going to continue on this debate with you (as you are only a ms2 and i'm afraid you are not quite on my level).

If you do disagree with my statement ( or anyone ) and think you know more about the lower extremity --please enlightenment me. challenge me (us). Otherwise this conversation is over.

 

[SpecterGT260]

Bottom line is podiatrist are the best at what they do and nobody comes close ( I dont really care if you agree or disagree) . I'm not going to continue on this debate with you (as you are only a ms2 and i'm afraid you are not quite on my level).

If you do disagree with my statement ( or anyone ) thinks they know more about the lower extremity --please enlightenment me. If you claim to know more than us about the lower extremity then by all means rise up and challenge me. Otherwise this conversation is over.

Ok that was REALLY not cool. 😡 You made me burst out laughing and disrupt several other people who are trying to study.


I've never been on your level 😉 I'm taking this as a compliment, btw.

The lower extremity (and lets be fair, it is distal lower extremity except in those states where they huff granola and allow psychologists to write scripts) is not some magical fantasy land that is somehow exempt from the normal rules that govern the rest of the body. As a limb goes, it is not terribly complicated. I don't care if you can name bones or ligaments faster than I can. There are general approach strategies to any pathology and they all apply the same way to the foot. Aside from specific clinical acronyms or buzzwords I would be really surprised if you could come up with anything specific to the foot that isn't also true to the rest of the body, easily manageable, or otherwise requiring a podiatrist above all else. You continually overstate every one of your points and simultaneously refuse to address any challenge you have already been given. This is why I call it a failure of imagination: You likely assume that because you find what you do difficult that it must be as difficult as anything anyone else does. That's fallacious. And irritating.

Here is a major hole in your argument when we talk about the scope of pods vs FM/IM/ID/VS/GS.... all those specialties that you guys take snippets of and wrap into one specialty (again, this isnt knocking the profession. That is a fair assessment - generalists for the foot = a little bit of everything for the foot, does it not?). The pathologies you deal with are very often also true for the hand. Does the game suddenly change drastically when it is the hand and not the foot? The things that are foot specific are not exactly on the overly complicated end of the spectrum in any regular fashion. We have podiatrists, so where are our hand specific doctors? Well, we call them orthopedists most of the time, unless we are talking non MSK injuries. We still dont have pods picking up the slack here even though most of what is true here will be found in the foot as well. If an orthopedist can surgically correct carpal tunnel, is he going to botch a plantar fascia release? Or is he going to be ill equipped to deal with fasciotomy for compartment syndrome below the knee because he isnt a pod? (can you guys do that? not in every state....)

The thing is, if I wanted to over-extend and be as mean as Duped or as flippant as you there is plenty to be said here, which is why I think the baseless comparisons and self-affirming proclamations are a pain in the ass. But if this is the route you want to pursue, lets go. What exactly do you have that is not found elsewhere to the same or greater degree elsewhere in medicine? The pod niche is not in expertise but in being generalists for a body area. The ability to take care of everything 1 patient may need in 1 area of the body. That is very useful to patients and that is why pods make a good living. But don't extend the importance to say that you outshine specialists in the same pathologies just because it occurs in a different location. That is naive....

 

[487806]

Bottom line is podiatrist are the best at what they do and nobody comes close ( I dont really care if you agree or disagree) . I'm not going to continue on this debate with you (as you are only a ms2 and i'm afraid you are not quite on my level).

If you do disagree with my statement ( or anyone ) and think you know more about the lower extremity --please enlightenment me. challenge me (us). Otherwise this conversation is over.

I agree with Specter! Your superiority complex over a med student is actually amusing. Keep it up.

 

[487806]

I don't know why people keep getting caught up in the "medical" specialty garbage. Podiatry is podiatry. Who cares if we are a medical specialty or not?

Earlier Duped tried to emasculate us by saying we do not take the ABSITE. Who cares? Pods are NEVER going to have to do ANY general surgery, so why would we want to be qualified in it? It is ridiculous! We have the America Board of Podiatry Surgery for this reason. Our scope of practice limits us to (usually less) from the knee down. So why would any pod want to sit for the ABSITE if they will never be legally allowed to do 99.9% of what the exam covers? The same is true with pretty much everything else we are arguing about.
I don't care if we are "legally" a medical specialty or not. I don't care if we aren't accredited by the AAMC or if we don't sit for the USMLE. We don't need to!

I also won't argue that we need to know how to manage most systemic diseases. I am not a PCP. And so I really don't think that managing systemic diseases benefits my practice. I will treat/diagnose diseases as they present in the foot, but I do not think I need to manage the patients diabetes/heart disease. that's just silly.

I'll oppose you just for fun. Your wrong!

 

[Duped]

Ok that was REALLY not cool. 😡 You made me burst out laughing and disrupt several other people who are trying to study.


I've never been on your level 😉 I'm taking this as a compliment, btw.

The lower extremity (and lets be fair, it is distal lower extremity except in those states where they huff granola and allow psychologists to write scripts) is not some magical fantasy land that is somehow exempt from the normal rules that govern the rest of the body. As a limb goes, it is not terribly complicated. I don't care if you can name bones or ligaments faster than I can. There are general approach strategies to any pathology and they all apply the same way to the foot. Aside from specific clinical acronyms or buzzwords I would be really surprised if you could come up with anything specific to the foot that isn't also true to the rest of the body, easily manageable, or otherwise requiring a podiatrist above all else. You continually overstate every one of your points and simultaneously refuse to address any challenge you have already been given. This is why I call it a failure of imagination: You likely assume that because you find what you do difficult that it must be as difficult as anything anyone else does. That's fallacious. And irritating.

Here is a major hole in your argument when we talk about the scope of pods vs FM/IM/ID/VS/GS.... all those specialties that you guys take snippets of and wrap into one specialty (again, this isnt knocking the profession. That is a fair assessment - generalists for the foot = a little bit of everything for the foot, does it not?). The pathologies you deal with are very often also true for the hand. Does the game suddenly change drastically when it is the hand and not the foot? The things that are foot specific are not exactly on the overly complicated end of the spectrum in any regular fashion. We have podiatrists, so where are our hand specific doctors? Well, we call them orthopedists most of the time, unless we are talking non MSK injuries. We still dont have pods picking up the slack here even though most of what is true here will be found in the foot as well. If an orthopedist can surgically correct carpal tunnel, is he going to botch a plantar fascia release? Or is he going to be ill equipped to deal with fasciotomy for compartment syndrome below the knee because he isnt a pod? (can you guys do that? not in every state....)

The thing is, if I wanted to over-extend and be as mean as Duped or as flippant as you there is plenty to be said here, which is why I think the baseless comparisons and self-affirming proclamations are a pain in the ass. But if this is the route you want to pursue, lets go. What exactly do you have that is not found elsewhere to the same or greater degree elsewhere in medicine? The pod niche is not in expertise but in being generalists for a body area. The ability to take care of everything 1 patient may need in 1 area of the body. That is very useful to patients and that is why pods make a good living. But don't extend the importance to say that you outshine specialists in the same pathologies just because it occurs in a different location. That is naive....

Okay, I was a little rough, but as you've seen, these guys are a little slow on the uptake.. It just took a few pokes to get the podiatrists to showcase what they're about.

 

[SpecterGT260]

Okay, I was a little rough, but as you've seen, these guys are a little slow on the uptake.. It just took a few pokes to get the podiatrists to showcase what they're about.

Rough? I disagree. It was realistic. I cracked no jokes about or made light of anything pods do. She said that nobody is qualified to do what they do and I gave several examples with rationale of why that is false. I am not saying pods are worthless, stupid, or anything. I am saying her statements are inaccurate and incredibly self-serving while also understating and underestimating the skill level of physicians (again, no nitpicky callouts due to imprecise language, if anyone has a better set of terms than pod vs physician say so).

But that is factual. There are things that present in the foot more often than others, but that doesnt make them fundamentally different from the things we deal with all over. It isnt as if the pods have special bone or joint they kept secret from all of us so that we wouldnt be able to properly approach the anatomy. The entire argument implies a complexity to the portion of the system that is beyond that of the same pathology occurring in another area and that just doesn't jive with limitations of scope.

 

[MaxillofacialMN]

Alas, the mythical Traum, you appear to have a ferocious podiatry student fan.
This was pretty much what I discovered after after some research on line. I wasn't aware of the NIH research exclusion. You summed up the unmentionables nicely. Podiatry and its vacuous flock are frightening in their insistence that they are physicians and surgeons, when indeed, they are not, and spend hours denying the very facts you posted. In sum, if you want to be a physician, go to medical school-there are no shortcuts. Thank you for a cogent informative post.

I don't know what an ABSITE is, or care.

My bad, it was Traum that mentioned the list, not you. You just agreed with him (the earlier quote) about the list of "unmentionables". I posit that these "unmentionables" are not unmentionables at all, and are irrelevant to a pod's performance. So, for you to agree with his list of unmentionables, you might want to know what you are agreeing with...

 

[487806]

My bad, it was Traum that mentioned the list, not you. You just agreed with him (the earlier quote) about the list of "unmentionables". I posit that these "unmentionables" are not unmentionables at all, and are irrelevant to a pod's performance. So, for you to agree with his list of unmentionables, you might want to know what you are agreeing with...

Traum? Duped? Argh, i'm so confused. Are they the same person?

 

[Duped]

My bad, it was Traum that mentioned the list, not you. You just agreed with him (the earlier quote) about the list of "unmentionables". I posit that these "unmentionables" are not unmentionables at all, and are irrelevant to a pod's performance. So, for you to agree with his list of unmentionables, you might want to know what you are agreeing with...

What the F*** are you talking about?

Do you have a leader, a mentor, a guru, or someone who can translate?

Each post that you make is more bizarre than the one before it. I don't know if you're trying to be cute, impress us with your idiocy, or trying to rescue a defeat with an attack.

In any event some remedial grammar, a course in logic, and some quality time with real doctors, scientists, educated folks, or maybe just a bartender might help you figure out if this podiatry thing is something you want to do...

 

[SpecterGT260]

My bad, it was Traum that mentioned the list, not you. You just agreed with him (the earlier quote) about the list of "unmentionables". I posit that these "unmentionables" are not unmentionables at all, and are irrelevant to a pod's performance. So, for you to agree with his list of unmentionables, you might want to know what you are agreeing with...

*while you may very well be typing out a rebuttal to my last post as I type this....*

I think you nailed it. The point is to stop holding people in different groups to external rubrics. If podiatry was worthless there wouldn't be any of them making any money. Traum, I believe, was correct in stating that many (most) pods create a need rather than fill one. Doesn't make it a bad thing. Most US business is done in such a way. Many things in medicine do the same thing or create hybrids between filling a need and creating one. It is good business. I think there is potential for pride in providing a service in a convenient way for your patients. I just think the extension that nobody else could do it is ridiculous. Maybe I am wrong, but I am not aware of anything that is referred to pods by physicians due to issues of expertise. A FM may refer a patient to a pod because it will be cheaper and more convenient to let the pod handle something rather than refer out to ortho who may not want to do it anyways. But otherwise I cant think of anything where the medical collective says "oh hell no I can't do that, give it to the pod" I say understand and be happy with the niche you fill rather than dressing it up as someone else's niche

 

[SpecterGT260]

What the F*** are you talking about?

Do you have a leader, a mentor, a guru, or someone who can translate?

Each post that you make is more bizarre than the one before it. I don't know if you're trying to be cute, impress us with your idiocy, or trying to rescue a defeat with an attack.

In any event some remedial grammar, a course in logic, and some quality time with real doctors, scientists, educated folks, or maybe just a bartender might help you figure out if this podiatry thing is something you want to do...

I found him articulate enough.
Especially compared to this:

In podspeak there is an accompanying equation along the lines of Mandlbrot's Randomness Theory. However the fractals take on a different meaning, and the translation from podspeak, is the Jabroni Spaghetti Toss Theory. It goes something like this: You toss a bunch of noodles at the wall, however they stick, slide, or fall represents a reliable number to predict how all spaghetti will react to a toss. It isn't an easy language, but I'm learning.

You may be the common denominator here
Again, don't just troll here. I don't believe you actually don't understand what he was saying. Debate is one thing, mindless flaming is another.

 

[Duped]

Traum? Duped? Argh, i'm so confused. Are they the same person?

I'm me, and my login name is Duped. Not a multiple login, That would be a violation of the terms of service, which is what some of the podiatrists via insinuation, innuendo, and calumny suggest.

If you doubt my veracity, please notify the board's moderator.

 

[Duped]

I found him articulate enough.
Especially compared to this:


You may be the common denominator here
Again, don't just troll here. I don't believe you actually don't understand what he was saying. Debate is one thing, mindless flaming is another.

I don't consider my posts trolling, or comments mindless flaming. They served a purpose, and the objective was met. This is an educational site, and as I've stated, my goal was to set the stage for the podiatrists to show their point of view-they did.

If what I do, research, troubles you, just come right out and say it, and report me to the moderator.

You may disagree with my methodology, but the results proved compelling, revealing, and of value. I've said previously that no matter what any of us says we do, or who we are, will be subject to speculation. Our backstories cannot be verified without some vetting process, and I believe the parent company would find that cost prohibitive, and contributors would be disinclined to reveal their thoughts.

I've made no misrepresentations and the majority of my probative comments resulted in revelations not otherwise accessible.

 

[SpecterGT260]

How have I failed to just come out and say what bugs me? 😕


I was pretty explicit.


Sent from my DROID RAZR using SDN Mobile

 

[MaxillofacialMN]

I think you nailed it. The point is to stop holding people in different groups to external rubrics. If podiatry was worthless there wouldn't be any of them making any money. Traum, I believe, was correct in stating that many (most) pods create a need rather than fill one. Doesn't make it a bad thing. Most US business is done in such a way. Many things in medicine do the same thing or create hybrids between filling a need and creating one. It is good business. I think there is potential for pride in providing a service in a convenient way for your patients. I just think the extension that nobody else could do it is ridiculous. Maybe I am wrong, but I am not aware of anything that is referred to pods by physicians due to issues of expertise. A FM may refer a patient to a pod because it will be cheaper and more convenient to let the pod handle something rather than refer out to ortho who may not want to do it anyways. But otherwise I cant think of anything where the medical collective says "oh hell no I can't do that, give it to the pod" I say understand and be happy with the niche you fill rather than dressing it up as someone else's niche

👍 👍
This is exactly what I'm talking about! I mentioned earlier that podiatry is a service not unlike plumbing, electric-work, etc etc. Who cares we need to "drum up" business? A pod's goal is to make money and fix people (and these typically go hand-in-hand). Just because 100% of pods don't work in hospitals where people get dropped off by ambulances every minute doesn't make their work any less meaningful/more trivial than that of a plumber or neurosurgeon.

 

[MaxillofacialMN]

Wait, Duped, what are you? Are you a pod? Have you previously told us? MD? RN? DPM? DO?

If you've already told us, I must have missed that post.

 

[487806]

Wait, Duped, what are you? Are you a pod? Have you previously told us? MD? RN? DPM? DO?

If you've already told us, I must have missed that post.

He works for Apple and produces iPods, hence his interest in podiatry.

 

[Duped]

How have I failed to just come out and say what bugs me? 😕


I was pretty explicit.


Sent from my DROID RAZR using SDN Mobile

I'd have done it like this: "What you're writing is really bugging me." That would have put the brakes on the colloquy. As a courtesy I may have sent a PM re what I was doing, or just stopped. The pace, tone, and demeanor of the material unraveled would have stopped. I would have honored your request, leaving with the sample I had.

I was just about to sign off when another post popped up. Now this guy's ticked, and from what we've all seen, would you encourage this as a career choice?

 

[MaxillofacialMN]

My bad, it was Traum that mentioned the list, not you. You just agreed with him (the earlier quote) about the list of "unmentionables". I posit that these "unmentionables" are not unmentionables at all, and are irrelevant to a pod's performance. So, for you to agree with his list of unmentionables, you might want to know what you are agreeing with...

What the F*** are you talking about?

Do you have a leader, a mentor, a guru, or someone who can translate?

Each post that you make is more bizarre than the one before it. I don't know if you're trying to be cute, impress us with your idiocy, or trying to rescue a defeat with an attack.

In any event some remedial grammar, a course in logic, and some quality time with real doctors, scientists, educated folks, or maybe just a bartender might help you figure out if this podiatry thing is something you want to do...

I'll take the high road and assume you're not trolling, and I'll break down exactly what I said sentence by sentence so you can understand clear English:

My bad, it was Traum that mentioned the list, not you.

Translated: My apologies, fine sir! It was the user by the name of "Traum" that provided us with the list [here I am referring to the list which included the ABSITE, which was previously quoted!], not you (meaning user: Duped)!

You just agreed with him (the earlier quote) about the list of "unmentionables".

You (user: Duped) had only just (yesterday) complimented Traum's post concerning his list of what you (Duped) had clearly labelled as "unmentionables." (Direct quote, post #272).

I posit that these "unmentionables" are not unmentionables at all, and are irrelevant to a pod's performance.

I (MaxillofacialMN) put forward as the basis for my argument that this list of so called (by you, Duped), "unmentionables" are not things that are too embarrassing, offensive, or shocking to be spoken about whatsoever, but rather are not relevant to the ability of a podiatrist as a doctor.

So, for you to agree with his list of unmentionables, you might want to know what you are agreeing with..

As such, for you (Duped) to compliment the list given by Traum (post # 269), you may find it prudent to understand what ABSITE is before you agree with someone mentioning it.

Hopefully this helps you understand the intricate language of the West known as: "English." *Cue Samual Jackson in Pulp Fiction*

 

[Duped]

Wait, Duped, what are you? Are you a pod? Have you previously told us? MD? RN? DPM? DO?

If you've already told us, I must have missed that post.

You seem to miss a lot. No, I'm not a pod, RN, DO or anything you'd guess in twenty years. Nonetheless what's the difference? Anyone can say they're anything here, right?

I could be a rocket scientist, ditch digger working on my doctorate in digging, or a zombie hunter.

 

[Duped]

I'm not going to read your post. It's too long, useless and, based on past events, probably incorrect.

Okay.. I read it. I'd agreed with anything to keep the flow of the dialogue from gumming up. It worked.

Re Pulp Fiction: "What ain't no country I ever heard of," so despite our funky dialogue I can't disrespect anyone who quotes a great film.

 

[MaxillofacialMN]

I was just about to sign off when another post popped up. Now this guy's ticked, and from what we've all seen, would you encourage this as a career choice?

Are you referring to me? I'm not mad or ticked.

 

[MaxillofacialMN]

I'm not going to read your post. It's too long, useless and, based on past events, probably incorrect.

lol, typical

 

[hematosis]

I hate threads like this.

Any nurse, doctor, surgeon, podiatrist, etc can be excellant at their job if they practice within the scope they trained. Period.

A podiatrist would make a crappy PCP and likewise a PCP would make a crappy podiatrist.

👍

 

[SpecterGT260]

🙄

So once again you opt to not respond when your statements are challenged and this time dig up a post from before you came in.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using SDN Mobile

 

[487806]

I'm not going to read your post. It's too long, useless and, based on past events, probably incorrect.

Best way to oppose your opponent. 🙄

 

[Duped]

I think the topic's run its course. Maybe someone will surprise with a profound revelation, but I woundn't hold my breath.

 

[Ferocity]

Specter, I believe the podiatrists are jerking you around. This iteration of repeating previously annoying posts is a called a misdirect in that" "Look how witty, clever and bright," avoidance of your questions. Your comments struck. directly at the heart of their inability to confront logic. You find this in chiropractors who argue the platitudes of spinal manipulation, or zealots armed with an impractical world view. The youngling, "maxillofacialMN" presents his/her self as a cheerleader/groupie of sorts who, when confronted recoils into am "aw shucks I'm just a student' pose, then returns with a nitpick repost and a pseudo "aha, gotcha" moment post. Now, the podiatrists are gaming the thread. When you come across them on rounds challenge them as you would an MD. Have one of them present a patient on AM rounds...Podiatry's insistence that they're "surgeons" without training in general surgery is baffling, and claiming to be "generalists" of the foot? Who subscribes to this nonsense, and fails to show deference to "specialist" problems with no medical education? They are bordering on a subset of healthcare provider that can, by stubbornly refusing to acknowledge MD training seem like a potential public health hazard.

Troll harder.

edit: I see you ninja edited your post.

 

[MaxillofacialMN]

The youngling, "maxillofacialMN" presents his/her self as a cheerleader/groupie of sorts who, when confronted recoils into am "aw shucks I'm just a student' pose, then returns with a nitpick repost and a pseudo "aha, gotcha" moment post.

When have I been "confronted"? Every time I post anything you respond with "I didn't read it, too long" or "I'm not answering you, you're a mindless sheep." Please, present something against podiatry that I can formally dispute. I am waiting...