Is it advisable to take school's home residency into account?

[HybridEarth]

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Hi guys,

I'm trying to narrow down a school list by next month. I recently came across the Doximity rankings for residency strength by institution. When trying to pick a school, is it advisable to take into account the Doximity rankings of that school's own residency programs? Well known example: Rush is somewhere in the 70s or 80s in regards to school rank, but several of their programs are in the top10/20 for residency ranking. Should things like this be taken into account? Preferably would like to hear from people who are already in medical school or beyond so I can make informed decisions. Thank you!

 

[doc05]

no. all rankings, including doximity rankings, are worthless. what is your specific program(s) of interest?

 

[christmasindr]

No, that should be the last thing that matters. You don't know what specialty you want to pursue and you don't know what you value from a residency program yet, so just let it go. There are many other important criteria to consider instead.

 

[gyngyn]

Hi guys,

I'm trying to narrow down a school list by next month. I recently came across the Doximity rankings for residency strength by institution. When trying to pick a school, is it advisable to take into account the Doximity rankings of that school's own residency programs? Well known example: Rush is somewhere in the 70s or 80s in regards to school rank, but several of their programs are in the top10/20 for residency ranking. Should things like this be taken into account? Preferably would like to hear from people who are already in medical school or beyond so I can make informed decisions. Thank you!

I've never heard of this and I've been in academic medicine my entire adult life.

 

[HybridEarth]

no. all rankings, including doximity rankings, are worthless. what is your specific program(s) of interest?

I am interested in surgery, mostly Ortho and Neuro from my personal life and research experiences. I know this is what a lot of people say they want to go into and it changes when board scores come around, but I've worked in both primary care and an ortho practice with a top clinician, and I can say that I am heavily leaning towards Ortho. I want to be amongst the best in whatever field I go into, and I believe I'm on a great track for research, have good connections, and have the right mindset. Obviously it's competitive, but I'm sure I can get where I need to be. For a program like Rush, for instance, I'm wondering if I should put more weight on their solid Ortho/neurosurg rankings compared to a higher ranked school, like Rochester or Dartmouth. Obviously ranking is only part of the question, but it's a piece of the puzzle that I need for comparing these programs.

 

[HybridEarth]

I've never heard of this and I've been in academic medicine my entire adult life.

Interesting, sounds like it's not that worthwhile to look at then. Several med students/residents showed this to me, and I hear it on the allopathic forums from time to time

 

[gyngyn]

Interesting, sounds like it's not that worthwhile to look at then. Several med students/residents showed this to me, and I hear it on the allopathic forums from time to time

People seem to love "top 10 lists."

 

[WedgeDawg]

Having a home program for a specialty you might be interested in is advantageous because you are statistically most likely to match to your home program. If that is a well regarded program or, more importantly, one that's a good fit for you (which you have no way of knowing at this point), all the better. If you think you might be interested in, say, plastic surgery, but one of the schools you've been accepted to doesn't have a home plastics residency while others do, that might be something to take into a little bit of consideration. This is basically an extrapolation of "keep your options open".

Anything else is probably not worth stressing over.

 

[HybridEarth]

Having a home program for a specialty you might be interested in is advantageous because you are statistically most likely to match to your home program. If that is a well regarded program or, more importantly, one that's a good fit for you (which you have no way of knowing at this point), all the better. If you think you might be interested in, say, plastic surgery, but one of the schools you've been accepted to doesn't have a home plastics residency while others do, that might be something to take into a little bit of consideration. This is basically an extrapolation of "keep your options open".

Anything else is probably not worth stressing over.

Thank you for your wisdom

 

[Goro]

Trying to gauge how good a residency is without an attending or resident to advise you is like trying to read chicken guts.

Hi guys,

I'm trying to narrow down a school list by next month. I recently came across the Doximity rankings for residency strength by institution. When trying to pick a school, is it advisable to take into account the Doximity rankings of that school's own residency programs? Well known example: Rush is somewhere in the 70s or 80s in regards to school rank, but several of their programs are in the top10/20 for residency ranking. Should things like this be taken into account? Preferably would like to hear from people who are already in medical school or beyond so I can make informed decisions. Thank you!

 

[mimelim]

Trying to gauge how good a residency is without an attending or resident to advise you is like trying to read chicken guts.

I wouldn't put much stock in your average resident or attending either.

 

[22031 Alum]

I've never heard of this and I've been in academic medicine my entire adult life.

Where were you when I was alone explaining why the statement "My program's Doximity ranking is X" is useless???!!

 

[gyngyn]

Where were you when I was alone explaining why the statement "My program's Doximity ranking is X" is useless???!!

I have my hands full in pre-allo!

 

[Goro]

Really? Don't you, as a vascular surgeon, have a good idea as to how the programs are in your field? Now, for a PhD, I know the good grad programs in my area of expertise, but am clueless in, say, Pharmacology programs.

I wouldn't put much stock in your average resident or attending either.

 

[WedgeDawg]

Really? Don't you, as a vascular surgeon, have a good idea as to how the programs are in your field? Now, for a PhD, I know the good grad programs in my area of expertise, but am clueless in, say, Pharmacology programs.

I would never in 100 years use mimelim as the example of the average anything. You'll get a much better idea by going over to your local community hospital and asking the on call vascular attending (or if you're lucky, a resident) and seeing how much they know. I would bet it's not much.

 

[22031 Alum]

Really? Don't you, as a vascular surgeon, have a good idea as to how the programs are in your field? Now, for a PhD, I know the good grad programs in my area of expertise, but am clueless in, say, Pharmacology programs.

The average resident probably doesn't pay too much attention to things like that. Your main focus is on your own program and all the work you have to do. Later on, your focus is on getting a job. I only began to be aware of the relative strengths/weaknesses of OB programs as a late-3rd and 4th year resident whose goal was academics. And that knowledge was very incomplete. Likewise, the average attending who isn't in academic leadership (or planning to be), doesn't have reason to stay on top of that sort of thing.

 

[boshtrich]

In my opinion if you are interested in Ortho you should absolutely take into account the strength of the home programs residency. I agree that Doximity rankings are useless, but you can generally get a feel of the relative strength of a residency program. Using Rush as an example, they certainly have a superb Ortho program from everyone I have heard. They may be weaker in other specialties, but if you want to do Ortho, it'd certainly help to attend a medical school with a great residency program both from a connections standpoint and from a matching standpoint. If the program has a huge case volume (like Rush) and is a good academic program, chances are they have more research opportunities for students than other places, and have more well known faculty to write letters. This can make a huge difference in your application. As you may be aware, the Ortho match has gotten rather brutal and any advantage helps. Plus, your best chances of matching will generally be at your home program since that is who will be most familiar with you and will have the best idea whether or not your a hard worker, fit in with the other residents, etc. if your home program has a strong residency program, that can be an added plus.

 

[Goro]

This is part of my ongoing education as the the art of Residency.

So now I have to ask, when you were looking for OB residencies, didn't you have an idea as to which ones were good and those that weren't?

The average resident probably doesn't pay too much attention to things like that. Your main focus is on your own program and all the work you have to do. Later on, your focus is on getting a job. I only began to be aware of the relative strengths/weaknesses of OB programs as a late-3rd and 4th year resident whose goal was academics. And that knowledge was very incomplete. Likewise, the average attending who isn't in academic leadership (or planning to be), doesn't have reason to stay on top of that sort of thing.

 

[mimelim]

Really? Don't you, as a vascular surgeon, have a good idea as to how the programs are in your field? Now, for a PhD, I know the good grad programs in my area of expertise, but am clueless in, say, Pharmacology programs.

I spend a lot of time thinking about and engaging in medical student/resident education. I know a lot about the programs in my field, the hospitals and the attendings. There are only ~2500 practicing physicians and ~50 integrated residencies, so it isn't a huge community to keep track of. But, I know my limitations. Things rapidly change and people hide things and/or lie. There are definitely general trends that you can suss out pretty easily if you look for them among the programs and I can give people my personal take on individual programs that I have come in contact with (get a fair few PMs from MS4s about programs), but I always have to remind people about what exactly my interaction with those programs was. I have only trained in one program, so I really only know the ins and outs and the daily life of that one program.

But, more importantly, I just don't put a tremendous amount of stock in residents and attendings in this. They aren't training (or trained) to be educators, mentors etc. They are also not trying to run programs or look out for the field as a whole. While there is of course something to be said for experience, I just don't think that most people pay attention to these things real time to have much to really say about them.

 

[Goro]

gawd, this is like trying to read:

I spend a lot of time thinking about and engaging in medical student/resident education. I know a lot about the programs in my field, the hospitals and the attendings. There are only ~2500 practicing physicians and ~50 integrated residencies, so it isn't a huge community to keep track of. But, I know my limitations. Things rapidly change and people hide things and/or lie. There are definitely general trends that you can suss out pretty easily if you look for them among the programs and I can give people my personal take on individual programs that I have come in contact with (get a fair few PMs from MS4s about programs), but I always have to remind people about what exactly my interaction with those programs was. I have only trained in one program, so I really only know the ins and outs and the daily life of that one program.

But, more importantly, I just don't put a tremendous amount of stock in residents and attendings in this. They aren't training (or trained) to be educators, mentors etc. They are also not trying to run programs or look out for the field as a whole. While there is of course something to be said for experience, I just don't think that most people pay attention to these things real time to have much to really say about them.

 

[22031 Alum]

This is part of my ongoing education as the the art of Residency.

So now I have to ask, when you were looking for OB residencies, didn't you have an idea as to which ones were good and those that weren't?

Oh, MS4 me would have had lots to say about which programs were good and which ones weren't. Thanks to good advisors, I now know some of it would have been accurate. But some of it would make current me laugh, thanks to an undeveloped sense of what actually makes a program "good." Like my belief at the time that having rotations at multiple hospitals was invariably a weakness, just to give an example.

 

[Law2Doc]

Each specialty has its own hierarchy, so don't even bother looking at any data on overall strength of residencies if it's not parsed out by specialty. Even the best hospital system is outright bad or malignant at something. And going into med school you won't even know for sure what specialty you want yet. And programs change year to year, usually driven by faculty that come and go, changes in research focus, work volume changes, etc.

So you are better off waiting until you get further into med school and find mentors to help you. In my experience the attendings you might line up as mentors have a decent sense of which programs are good, bad, benign, malignant, up and comers, and those falling out of favor. Not perfect, but better than some on this thread are suggesting. It's an imperfect system, but a lot better than doximity, and because you've selected this person as a mentor he's a lot more likely to have your interests at heart and biases that work in your favor rather than the random 10% who fill out surveys in a self serving manner on doximity. In fact it's often the most malignant places that push to have their personnel put on a positive face/spin in these surveys, so you might be just as well served using their rankings in reverse.

 

[tantacles]

gawd, this is like trying to read:

...

I see the grim.