Is it appropriate to asked to be paid?

[HOPEFULOBGYN-REI]

Later this week, I will be meeting with a professor at a college of medicine to which I intend to apply in a couple of years. I met her over the summer during an internship at the same school; she presented her research, which aligns with my interest in women's health. As I prepare for the meeting, I realized that if she allows me to conduct research under her supervision, I may be working without compensation.

While I understand that research provides valuable experience, I also wish to be paid, as I will be dedicating my time to this and believe there should be compensation for that. Since this is my first time discussing such matters with a professor, I would appreciate some outside perspective. Should I bring up the topic of compensation during the meeting, and if so, what's an acceptable amount? Thanks for any advice!

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[Hollow Knight]

Honestly being an undergrad research assistant is something akin to indentured servitude. You do the scutwork nobody wants to do, for free, and in return you get your name as last author on any pubs that come out.

At least that's how my situation worked. And I was grateful for the opportunity.

Nothing wrong with bringing up pay, but don't get mad if they say no. It's not that common

 

[pleasehelpme12]

I would say don’t do this. It sucks but is also the nature of the work. Some professors may even get annoyed but this is entirely dependent on the person.

Starting out with compensation is exceedingly rare. Funds for lab work are very low after all equipment and supplies are purchased. Grad students are paid extremely poorly and they have several years of experience.

my girlfriend was able to get a paid position in her lab, but she was an all-star performer for over a year in a lab that was more or less rolling in money.

Is this a principal thing or a requirement for survival? Something to understand is that early on research as an undergrad you are likely a net negative to the lab/research group in terms of hours spent on education to productivity and research contribution.

If you need money to survive and can’t afford to do research without it I would be forward about that and see if there are departmental scholarships available or something similar. If you don’t need the money, I’d wait until you have demonstrated some serious value to the team. At that point it would not be unreasonable to ask.

I empathize with how much not getting paid sucks, but there are always 100s of other premeds who will work for nothing.

 

[Hollow Knight]

I will also say here as someone from a working class background whose parents couldn't help pay for college- I understand how ridiculous this is. It's one of the reasons when I see a kid who worked as a waitress or something all through school, I factor that into my overall assessment of that applicant.

But the bottom line is you probably won't get paid unfortunately. I think we should change the premed process a lot to make it a more level playing field for not rich people, but unfortunately the AAMC doesn't care what I think. In my experience unfortunately a lot of the whole "We care about a diverse applicant pool" thing tends to just be lip service. I try to go to bat for you guys though when I'm reviewing your apps

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Later this week, I will be meeting with a professor at a college of medicine to which I intend to apply in a couple of years. I met her over the summer during an internship at the same school; she presented her research, which aligns with my interest in women's health. As I prepare for the meeting, I realized that if she allows me to conduct research under her supervision, I may be working without compensation.

While I understand that research provides valuable experience, I also wish to be paid, as I will be dedicating my time to this and believe there should be compensation for that. Since this is my first time discussing such matters with a professor, I would appreciate some outside perspective. Should I bring up the topic of compensation during the meeting, and if so, what's an acceptable amount? Thanks for any advice!

Ask if there are any undergraduate research grants that you could apply for that could give you a stipend so you could work in that lab. Ask if the PI knows of any other opportunities to get you a research stipend. Ask the department chair responsible for your major about undergraduate research grants.

Sometimes the PI doesn't have the funds to pay for an undergrad research assistant. But that doesn't mean there isn't a mechanism if you are eligible.

National Institute of General Medical Sciences

NIGMS supports basic research to understand biological processes and lay the foundation for advances in disease diagnosis, treatment, and prevention.

www.nigms.nih.gov

In my lab days, we had someone apply for and receive high school and undergraduate research stipend funds. That person is now an assistant professor.

When I was mentoring undergraduate research students, I was in charge of disbursing supplemental funds to the PI's who took on an undergrad in the lab provided they could budget for stipend support.

Read articles

You searched for undergraduate research - SDN

www.studentdoctor.net

 

[GoSpursGo]

Don't request compensation.

For the first 6 months, you're just learning what you're doing. It's strictly an educational experience and you're actively slowing other people down. If you stick around and prove yourself, there will be opportunities to get compensated. This can take the form of an explicit stipend or scholarship (many schools have competitive scholarships or summer internship programs) or in the form of research credit (which is usually an easy A). But you need to put in your time to prove you're actually going to stick around and be a useful contributor in order to reap these benefits.

 

[LunaOri]

Ask your school if work-study is available. That could compensate you without the professor having to provide any funding.

 

[candbgirl]

The best you can hope for is a stipend, and that isn’t much. It certainly isn’t a salary. The purpose of you working with this professor is what you will learn about the subject matter and the intricate workings of the lab. It wouldn’t be a good thing to ask during this interview. When you prove yourself to the professor, or more likely others in the lab, someone might mention a stipend at that point.

 

[rayolux]

Ultimately, it's a question of the value of the research position to you — is it more important to have the research experience on your resume, or to receive minimum wage for your time? Best case scenario, you are offered both. As was previously mentioned, it's also not clear whether this is a matter of principle or a matter of necessity. If principle, the same value judgment applies: does upholding my values of not working/training without compensation outweigh the value received by participating?

 

[Rachapkis]

Your professor is teaching you and helping you build your resume in return for your labor (which may or may not be of any value to her). While I do not think asking for compensation would be insulting (if done tactfully), I would not hold out high hopes of being paid.

 

[HOPEFULOBGYN-REI]

I would say don’t do this. It sucks but is also the nature of the work. Some professors may even get annoyed but this is entirely dependent on the person.

Starting out with compensation is exceedingly rare. Funds for lab work are very low after all equipment and supplies are purchased. Grad students are paid extremely poorly and they have several years of experience.

my girlfriend was able to get a paid position in her lab, but she was an all-star performer for over a year in a lab that was more or less rolling in money.

Is this a principal thing or a requirement for survival? Something to understand is that early on research as an undergrad you are likely a net negative to the lab/research group in terms of hours spent on education to productivity and research contribution.

If you need money to survive and can’t afford to do research without it I would be forward about that and see if there are departmental scholarships available or something similar. If you don’t need the money, I’d wait until you have demonstrated some serious value to the team. At that point it would not be unreasonable to ask.

I empathize with how much not getting paid sucks, but there are always 100s of other premeds who will work for

I do need it, I just got a new car, and my parents aren't helping me. I can cover it while I'm at school working, but once I go home for the summer I will need a job so that I can pay my bills. I should have mentioned I go to school OOS and this school is my states flagship college of medicine but it's also an hour and a half away from where I live. So gas and tolls also have to be taken into consideration. If I can't get paid then idk how I'm going to balance it out with a part time job.

 

[GoSpursGo]

I do need it, I just got a new car, and my parents aren't helping me. I can cover it while I'm at school working, but once I go home for the summer I will need a job so that I can pay my bills. I should have mentioned I go to school OOS and this school is my states flagship college of medicine but it's also an hour and a half away from where I live. So gas and tolls also have to be taken into consideration. If I can't get paid then idk how I'm going to balance it out with a part time job.

I assumed you were doing research with someone at your current undergraduate institution.

There is no research experience that could possibly be worth driving 1.5h both ways. While it might sound like a good idea to do research at a med school as an "in," in reality that research experience isn't going to be any more valuable than whatever you could get at your undergrad. They're not going to accept you just because you did research with a professor in the med school. The point of a research assistant position in undergrad is just so that you can learn the practical application of hypothesis-driven research, and there is nothing special about doing research at a med school vs in your undergrad's biology or chemistry department for that experience.

As I mentioned, there are paid summer internships that you can apply for. These usually go to students who have some unpaid experience at their undergrad institution, so if you get your feet wet at your home institution you may be competitive for a paid internship in the future. The med school you're interested in eventually applying to may even have one of these programs. Since these paid internships are usually competitively awarded, getting this in the future would be a nice feather in your cap. But I would not bend over backwards to do this research doing the school year.

 

[Goro]

I agree that it would be better to seek out other sources of funding as my wise colleagues have suggested.

 

[eigen]

I wouldn't be offended if someone asked, but I have no funds to support students so the answer would be "I'm really sorry, but no". I might be able to find some opportunities we could apply for together, or might be able to help you find opportunities that would pay.

Generally when I'm mentoring students, I'm putting in uncompensated time to mentor them in research (i.e., time that is over and above my normal paid responsibilities) and it's generally not valued in my job description or job evaluations. For example, I don't get paid (anything) other than what I can get in grants over the summer. When I mentor students, I *might* get a stipend for my work, but it's usually 1/5 or less of the stipends my students get- maybe $1000-$2000 for 40+ hours of week for 9-10 weeks of hands on, in-lab mentoring. If you're in a bigger lab, you may be mentored by a grad student (who is probably making very little) because of this. A sad truth of the matter is that from a financial perspective, very little value is placed on mentorship or training experience: not from the standpoint of compensating faculty, and not from the standpoint of compensating students so that it can be equitably accessed.

That doesn't mean I don't do everything I can to find money to pay students, but I think a lot of students can mistakenly get the view that they're the only ones being shortchanged (i.e., they're giving free labor that someone else is benefiting from).

The main mechanism to close the "gaps" between students are through competitive, funded research experiences (i.e., REUs and others) where the funding is explicitly set up to make it possible for students to not have to choose between work and gaining experience.

 

[Hollow Knight]

I wouldn't be offended if someone asked, but I have no funds to support students so the answer would be "I'm really sorry, but no". I might be able to find some opportunities we could apply for together, or might be able to help you find opportunities that would pay.

Generally when I'm mentoring students, I'm putting in uncompensated time to mentor them in research (i.e., time that is over and above my normal paid responsibilities) and it's generally not valued in my job description or job evaluations. For example, I don't get paid (anything) other than what I can get in grants over the summer. When I mentor students, I *might* get a stipend for my work, but it's usually 1/5 or less of the stipends my students get- maybe $1000-$2000 for 40+ hours of week for 9-10 weeks of hands on, in-lab mentoring. If you're in a bigger lab, you may be mentored by a grad student (who is probably making very little) because of this. A sad truth of the matter is that from a financial perspective, very little value is placed on mentorship or training experience: not from the standpoint of compensating faculty, and not from the standpoint of compensating students so that it can be equitably accessed.

That doesn't mean I don't do everything I can to find money to pay students, but I think a lot of students can mistakenly get the view that they're the only ones being shortchanged (i.e., they're giving free labor that someone else is benefiting from).

The main mechanism to close the "gaps" between students are through competitive, funded research experiences (i.e., REUs and others) where the funding is explicitly set up to make it possible for students to not have to choose between work and gaining experience.

Whenever I feel like whining about having to work 36 hour shifts as a med student (or insert other medical tomfoolery)….. I just remember that being a PhD student, or tenure track professor, is even worse haha.

Seriously though being a researcher is noble. One of my med school professors (who I would consider a friend) still works like 60 hours a week in retirement because he cares about medical and PhD students and setting us up for success. And I don’t think they pay him anything (or maybe like $2 an hour)

 

[eigen]

Hah, yeah... I make less than most of my undergrads in their first job out of college, but I do really enjoy what I do.

And I don't mean my post to contradict that: those of us that mentor students really do it because we want to, and because we feel like it's important.

 

[Stellar Mudd]

Do you know if this professor has any direct relationship to the SOM admissions or clinical rotations? Just because a professor is employed by the SOM doesn’t make it a major in as mentioned. My friend once shadowed a community doc and it wasn’t until they applied that they found out they were the community clerkship director for the SOM, and so a LOR (as opposed to just the activity listing on the app) was extremely valuable to the committee. So the value of a relationship with a professor can vary based on a number of factors.

You could do some online sleuthing and see if there is anyone in your home community with these kinds of connections.

If you get work study through your school, most professors are very glad to have you since you are free labor for the lab.

Some types of clinical research are chart review and the student can do a lot of it from home. But I take it that this opportunity is not like this and is bench based? Just something to keep in mind as you move forward that those opportunities exist too.

 

[mistafab]

Bringing up pay is totally acceptable. however, realize most labs won't want to pay you unless you already worked for them as an undergrad. They have limited funds for research, and would rather pay someone they know can help move the mission forward.

Meaning, typically the unpaid servitude after a few months can turn in to a part time paid gig later.

It's just how it goes. But no harm in asking.