Is it better to be an Average or Below Average MD student or an Above Average DO?

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USArmyDoc said:
True, you have some good pts.

Wait, wait, wait...is it better to be an above average DO or a below average MD? haha, I think we've gotten away from the argument...I think we should have a "punching fist" icon that flashes next to a thread in which a fight is going on, that would be awesome....ok now back to fighting...
 
anon-y-mouse said:
I don't need your "permission" to do anything, because the academic success I have achieved thus far stands for itself. My GPA is competitive, my MCAT score is above 40, and the rest of my application is great.

What the heck do MCAT and GPA have to do with MD or DO? Just because your MCAT is 40+, your application is strong, and you have a good GPA does not mean you are obligated to attend an MD school. I have some really good friends with similar qualifications that are going DO because the philosophy fits them better. In addition, calling DO a "backdoor into medicine" is claim that plays on ignorant assumptions and not on facts.

...but at the end of the day, I am going to be an MD. Where does that leave you? Learn to make legitimate arguments, rather than attacking people.

At the end of the day, I will be an MD. I chose UND because of their program and not because it is an MD school. I have the utmost respect for Osteopathic Medicine and I think that your decision should not be based on the letters behind your name, but the program/philosophy you wish to adopt.

DrL

I also have acceptances to Mount Sinai and other top ranked schools.

P.S. Until they begin posting credentials in a format like Dr. Smith, M.D. (Top 10 School) or Dr. Doe, M.D. (Harvard), lets cut out the "I'm going to a top 10, yeah for me..."
 
ahh!! My own candidacy honestly has nothing to do with this debate, and I regret bringing it up. I simply brought it up to refute an attack against *me* from NRAI, rather than to support my view on the issue at hand. My own stats have nothing to do with the topic, so please ignore.

NRAI - sarcasm? Uhh yeah, right... a personal attack is sarcastic. Google the term "false analogy" and you'll see the mistake you made.

And medhacker, thanks for the reference to that post, I must have missed it. Sure it may be political, but that still does not make it correct. You yourself acknowledge "was it not for this jeaolusy on behalf of the AOA I think many of us [osteopaths] would not have had a chance to become a physician or specialize in an area of choice". Hello, this is the *epitome* of backdoor I am talking about... caused for the most part by the fact that MD's are not eligible for osteopathic residencies. I am fine with the existence of DO, but if they want an equal playing field, it's about time they play fair and allow everyone to get a crack at *all* the residencies in America.

So, if DO is not MD + OMM, and in fact "more", what is the nature of this osteopathic gestalt? Treat the whole patient, not the symptoms? That's making a very grave allegation, that MD's do not consider the whole picture when treating a disease. What is it? Don't get me wrong, I would love to learn manipulative medicine as CME and treat people's bad backs, for example -- and I think that is a very charming aspect of osteopathic education -- but surely if there is more, and if it was in the best interest to saving patient lives, that would also be taught by schools granting an MD. Equality or inequality? Can't have both without sounding like a hypocrite.
 
I wish everyone competed for the same residencies. I guess I agree with anon y mouse in that everything should be equal...but right now the problem is a solid DO applicant for example would not stand much chance at most allopathic orthopedic/ENT/Neurosurgery residencies. That blows. I just see it if the DO takes the USMLE and makes a 240+ and maybe do research they should be given equal chance, but I have a feeling they (for the most part) are not so I guess thats why the DO schools still have their own residencies. Lame if you ask me. If you are good you are good...regardless of your initials.
 
medhacker said:
There is a financial factor in all this - even U.S. MD schools are businesses in most cases for a profit, so there really isn't anything new here. Medicine is a business [some call it a mafia LOL] and those in power AMA, AOA etc will do all they can to retain (and actually obtain more if they can) the power they have achieved. Don't hate the player(s) hate the game...

Ok some of the private institutions (both allopathic and osteopathic) really are businesses...they do focus on producing a profit...it is very important that if your institution has an academic medical center that it is running in the black...but seriously I don't know of many osteopathic schools that are concerned with their own academic medical centers...they make their profit off of students and thats why places like NYCOM and DMU are among the largest medical schools in the nation. My state school Iowa looses money on every in-state they educate...they make no money off my full tuition payment so clearly your blanket statement is false...I'm not hating on osteopathic schools but because they have no way real way to make money from a clinic, and for the most part have much smaller number of faculty they I think are more focused on making money than many of the allopathics. I mean for petes sake there isn't a University of Iowa in gainesville florida...hate or love it the AOA is shooting itself in the foot by allowing all those damn branches to keep going...I mean seriously why the hell is their a Lake Eerie College in Florida or midwestern university in arizona its a joke.
 
anon-y-mouse said:
And medhacker, thanks for the reference to that post, I must have missed it. Sure it may be political, but that still does not make it correct. You yourself acknowledge "was it not for this jeaolusy on behalf of the AOA I think many of us [osteopaths] would not have had a chance to become a physician or specialize in an area of choice". Hello, this is the *epitome* of backdoor I am talking about... caused for the most part by the fact that MD's are not eligible for osteopathic residencies. I am fine with the existence of DO, but if they want an equal playing field, it's about time they play fair and allow everyone to get a crack at *all* the residencies in America.

So, if DO is not MD + OMM, and in fact "more", what is the nature of this osteopathic gestalt? Treat the whole patient, not the symptoms? That's making a very grave allegation, that MD's do not consider the whole picture when treating a disease. What is it? Don't get me wrong, I would love to learn manipulative medicine as CME and treat people's bad backs, for example -- and I think that is a very charming aspect of osteopathic education -- but surely if there is more, and if it was in the best interest to saving patient lives, that would also be taught by schools granting an MD. Equality or inequality? Can't have both without sounding like a hypocrite.


Contrary to what seems to be a popular belief, the AOA does not lobby for equality. It lobbies for "A DO has everything an MD has and more" on this premise denying a DO an MD residency access, hospital privileges, etc is illegal - and they sure have lobbied well for look at how DOs have slowly but surely gained ground in the MD only world.

On the same premise the AOA says, an MD has not been trained as an osteopathic physician for 4 years. Yes we both learn the same anatomy, physio, path etc, but when all these things are taught to a DO student, he is being part of a delivery system which is not equal to the MD delivery system. There is a different history, faculty are expected to teach with a "spirit/philosophy" which has been unique to osteopathic education. While these differences may be subtle and may not "necessarily" warrant exclusion of MD students to DO residencies, on the basis that they do not preclude formation of a physician - they sure preclude the formation of an osteopathic physician. Afterall, an osteopathic residency has a committment to produce osteopathic physicians. The fact that upholding these differences determines surviving or not, makes it quite reasonable that they exist. Technically speaking the only way an MD could have such a preparation would be to receive all her/his medical education under that osteopathic umbrella. The DO student, however, for obvious reasons has already received the MD equivalent, plus more.

Please nobody misconstrue my words to mean DO students are better than MD students. DO students are just a bit different. In my opinion keeping a no MD in DO residency policy is good policy. MD students in most cases would not seek DO primary care residencies but DO hyper-competitive specialties. This does not mean either that a DO is less prepared for her/his own residency. However, for every seat in a DO residency given to an MD student in a hyper-compet. DO residency - there is one less DO student who was faithful to osteopathic medicine who did not take advantage of the system he helped uphold. This IMHO would result in less qualified students attending a DO medical program and joining the world of medicine. Think of how well does an MD who completed a DO dermatology residency represent osteopathic medicine.

The number of MD medical schools has been fixed for a bunch of years. Despite obvious signs of physician shortages only recently has the AMA decided to take a stand on it. In the mean time DO schools have been working to fill America's need providing educational opportunities and more fine physicians.

Look, I reiterate my point, if it wasn't for DO schools many would not have become physicians and many Americans would have gone sub-served/unserved. I believe the policy helps support a professional system which has helped America enormously. Changing the policy would not do one good thing for osteopathic medicine. Having a DO neurosurgeon makes publicity for our kind of medicine in obvious ways an MD neurosurgeon (even if she/he does an osteopathic residency) can not.


So IMHO it is not about DOs wanting equality with our beloved MD brethren. Yes we are the underdog! but I think we need to be bold enough to proclaim that while MDs are good we have what MDs have plus more. This makes us qualified for a Job as an MD resident. It does not, however, qualify an MD for a Job in a DO residency and politically speaking it is not good policy.


😍


Disclaimer: Although the thoughts and views in this post seem partial to reality, they are merely fictional characters and are not meant to resemble any true persons or situations. Some of the events described in this book, may erroneously suggest the poster was intoxicated while typing. It is not meant to offend or criticize any cultural groups or victims. And of course, none of what I said should be construed to mean an MD could not be a good physician learn OMM well, be compassionate, and have an "osteopathic" philosophy or even a better one. It does not, imply either, that all DO students automatically learn and perform according to the intended mission of their osteopathic school. Individual results may vary. This is not legal advice, and I am not an attorney, I don't even play one on TV.
 
medhacker said:
"A DO has everything an MD has and more"

So IMHO it is not about DOs wanting equality with our beloved MD brethren. Yes we are the underdog! but I think we need to be bold enough to proclaim that while MDs are good we have what MDs have plus more. This makes us qualified for a Job as an MD resident. It does not, however, qualify an MD for a Job in a DO residency and politically speaking it is not good policy.

So I'm sitting here wondering what would a DO have that I as an MD student won't...I can't think of a damn thing...this is non-sense...for pete's sake tell me what this additional thing DO's have is...OMM yeah right...this post really makes me mad...there is absolutely nothing a DO has that an MD doesn't except branch campuses and osteopathic medicine...I'll refrain from some of the shots I'd love to sling at you but they are below the belt and not worth my time...what a joke
 
snobored18 said:
So I'm sitting here wondering what would a DO have that I as an MD student won't...I can't think of a damn thing...this is non-sense...for pete's sake tell me what this additional thing DO's have is...OMM yeah right...this post really makes me mad...there is absolutely nothing a DO has that an MD doesn't except branch campuses and osteopathic medicine...I'll refrain from some of the shots I'd love to sling at you but they are below the belt and not worth my time...what a joke

That's what I thought.
 
This really isn't a squabble persay...I respect DO's they are a necessarry part of the medical system in this country and there are great osteopathic physicians...I just dislike when people make statements like "DO = MD + something mysterious that can't be substantiated" ...At least when I state my personal preferences it is grounded in specific schools and their strengths that match me not on bashing one degree or the other...
 
qj-angry-775142.gif


oooh I am so mad...DOs just can't be any different to MDs..this is so unsubstantiated


:laugh:


BTW last I checked MD schools were opening up branches in rather more exotic places...(Middle east??!)


ok my bad sorry for fueling it! feel free to close it :laugh:
 
I think the columbia and cornell alliances are for those interested in international medicine...I mean Ben Guron already has a med school, the Qatar thing I still don't get...but the focus is educating physicians who are looking towards international practice...which by the way is an MD's world so there is a substantiated difference between MD and DO if you want to find something...Medhacker I asked you to SUBSTANTIATE a difference and you just put up a joker...way to make this completely juvenile...
 
snobored18 said:
I think the columbia and cornell alliances are for those interested in international medicine...I mean Ben Guron already has a med school, the Qatar thing I still don't get...but the focus is educating physicians who are looking towards international practice...which by the way is an MD's world so there is a substantiated difference between MD and DO if you want to find something...Medhacker I asked you to SUBSTANTIATE a difference and you just put up a joker...way to make this completely juvenile...

Dudette/Dude,

Life is not black and white in its entirety

Ask any loved one of yours to quantitatively substantiate their love towards you. Any attempt will be lame...

Nonetheless no one denies that there are intangible non quantitative "things" which greatly affect our lives. The analogy stands - although there may not be many differences that can "substantiated" they do exist and they do make a difference.


snobored18, don't take lifre so seriously, reading your comments made me crack up to the point that I could only focus on a mad cartoon with HBP.
 
snobored18 said:
So I'm sitting here wondering what would a DO have that I as an MD student won't...I can't think of a damn thing...this is non-sense...for pete's sake tell me what this additional thing DO's have is


-5 points on the MCAT. OH SNAP.

What, DO students are the only ones allowed to post pointless flamebait on this thread? Equal opportunity trolling for us all. :laugh: :meanie:
 
Well about why MD students can't apply to DO residencies......

Perhaps because there are so many MD students is they were allowed to compete for the same DO residencies simultaneously there would be few left to the smaller proportion of DO students.

I don;t know all the numbers but Id guess DO students matching into MD residencies are not "stealing" precious seats away from MD students are they?

About the AOA residencies that go unfilled in Family Practice, perhaps those should be opened up to other MDs and Foreign Grads after a certain date, but how do you regulate that??? And don't MD residencies for Family Practice go unfilled too? So why don;t they just take those? Its fine as long as the DO residencies don't expect their residents know OMM....so its not a simple problem of AOA "discriminating"
 
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