Is it better to go to DO school if you want to be in the top of your class?

[DontBanMeBro]

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Hello

I was reading about matching into competitive specialties. One of the things that I learned is that class rank is one of the factors that are looked at when it comes to determining where one will match. I was wondering if the dwindling stigma against the DO degree as osteopaths become more widely recognized would be countered by being on the top of the class at an osteopathic school?

In better words... Let's say I want to match into a competitive specialty. What is more influential? Having an MD degree vs a DO, which shouldn't really matter as DO's are becoming recognized as equals to their allopathic counterparts? Or would it be better to go to an osteopathic med school and have a higher chance at being in the top of the class, given that on average, people at an osteopathic school have lower GPAs and MCAT in undergrad (indicative of lesser intelligence)

Thank you.

 

[khrisskhoras]

hello

i was reading about matching into competitive specialties. One of the things that i learned is that class rank is one of the factors that are looked at when it comes to determining where one will match. I was wondering if the dwindling stigma against the do degree as osteopaths become more widely recognized would be countered by being on the top of the class at an osteopathic school?

In better words... Let's say i want to match into a competitive specialty. What is more influential? Having an md degree vs a do, which shouldn't really matter as do's are becoming recognized as equals to their allopathic counterparts? Or would it be better to go to an osteopathic med school and have a higher chance at being in the top of the class, given that on average, people at an osteopathic school have lower gpas and mcat in undergrad (indicative of lesser intelligence)

thank you.

no

 

[username456789]

This is probably a troll post anyway, but the answer is absolutely not.

Having "DO" after your name will close the door (or nearly do so) for quite a few specialties right off the bat.

 

[Amba]

Obvious troll thread is obvious.

 

[dsoz]

Only apply DO because you want to be a DO. Otherwise, save the seat for someone that really wants it. There is no guarantee that you will be top of your class at any school. There will always be someone smarter than you.

 

[487806]

Obvious troll thread is obvious.

Read OP's username. A challenge to the mods!

 

[ES2]

This is probably a troll post anyway, but the answer is absolutely not.

Having "DO" after your name will close the door (or nearly do so) for quite a few specialties right off the bat.

I completely disagree with this. A D.O. might make it more difficult to pursue certain specialties but in no way does close any doors. Try getting into a specialty with no medical degree: now that will close your doors.

 

[GoPelicans]

Having "DO" after your name will close the door (or nearly do so) for quite a few specialties right off the bat.

Really? Like what? DO's make a big deal that they can basically do anything that a MD can do.

 

[487806]

I completely disagree with this. A D.O. might make it more difficult to pursue certain specialties but in no way does close any doors. Try getting into a specialty with no medical degree: now that will close your doors.

Dude, he's a resident. He's been through the process and knows what he's saying. Unless another resident, attending, fellow or MS4 disagree validly, i'd adjust the thought process.

Your disagreeing when you haven't entered medical school doesn't mean anything.

 

[ChiDO]

This is probably a troll post anyway, but the answer is absolutely not.

Having "DO" after your name will close the door (or nearly do so) for quite a few specialties right off the bat.

Only if you are dead set on some academic ACGME powerhouse comp specialty. Even then, usually there are very little of these spots to go around for the "MD" students as well.

 

[ES2]

Dude, he's a resident. He's been through the process and knows what he's saying. Unless another resident, attending, fellow or MS4 disagree validly, i'd adjust the thought process.

Your disagreeing when you haven't entered medical school doesn't mean anything.

Oh I'm sorry, I guess I don't know anything because I haven't matriculated anywhere. You're argument is invalid.

 

[Akail]

Only if you are dead set on some academic ACGME powerhouse comp specialty. Even then, usually there are very little of these spots to go around for the "MD" students as well.

Agree with this as well. I have a lot of friends I went through the match process with MD/DO across multiple specialties (EM, rads, gas, gen surg). Most people matched where they wanted to in the specialty they wanted; some didn't but from my n=1, I can't say that those who didn't match high (or at all) were limited by the letters after their name. I think you have to look at the whole package; a MD with 200 step scores and lukewarm LORs is very different than an MD with 250s and great LORs (SDN derm).

 

[487806]

Oh I'm sorry, I guess I don't know anything because I haven't matriculated anywhere. You're argument is invalid.

Your* 😉

You may claim to know something, but your automatic dismissal of a resident's suggestion doesn't mean anything. If you've actually been through the process, by all means, your argument would be valid. But you haven't.

For instance, ChiDO (a resident) disagreed GuyWhoDoesStuff's claims. Sure fine. What's accurate is likely determined by the former (or you can back it up from whatever stuff you find from another resident or attending). Sure, residents can be wrong. Attendings can be wrong. But they are far more trustworthy, experienced and knowledgeable in these cases than a lay premed.

 

[yehhhboiii]

Oh I'm sorry, I guess I don't know anything because I haven't matriculated anywhere. You're argument is invalid.

As a premed you are clueless. You have no idea what you're talking about

 

[ES2]

Your* 😉

You may claim to know something, but your automatic dismissal of a resident's suggestion doesn't mean anything. If you've actually been through the process, by all means, your argument would be valid. But you haven't.

For instance, ChiDO (a resident) disagreed GuyWhoDoesStuff's claims. Sure fine. What's accurate is likely determined by the former (or you can back it up from whatever stuff you find from another resident or attending). Sure, residents can be wrong. Attendings can be wrong. But they are far more trustworthy, experienced and knowledgeable in these cases than a lay premed.

Alright I can totally see where you're coming from, I was basing my previous statement on experience where I have observed DO's in specialties which would be considered competitive. I'm not a resident, and I don't know what its like getting into competitive residencies.

As a premed you are clueless. You have no idea what you're talking about

Thats a bold judgement to make based off a comment on SDN, sure hope you don't jump to conclusions like that with your patients,

 

[487806]

Alright I can totally see where you're coming from, I was basing my previous statement on experience where I have observed DO's in specialties which would be considered competitive. I'm not a resident, and I don't know what its like getting into competitive residencies.

I guess the question lies in what are these "few (exclusive) specialties" GuyWhoDoesStuff is talking about.

 

[Radon XP]

There's no reason to expect that lower admissions standards at any particular school will mean a less motivated/dumber student population.

For many people, a new stage in schooling means a clean slate. People are going to be just as motivated to do well in any DO school as in any MD school: they're at a new point in life and want to make the most of it.

 

[A7X]

Hello

I was reading about matching into competitive specialties. One of the things that I learned is that class rank is one of the factors that are looked at when it comes to determining where one will match. I was wondering if the dwindling stigma against the DO degree as osteopaths become more widely recognized would be countered by being on the top of the class at an osteopathic school?

In better words... Let's say I want to match into a competitive specialty. What is more influential? Having an MD degree vs a DO, which shouldn't really matter as DO's are becoming recognized as equals to their allopathic counterparts? Or would it be better to go to an osteopathic med school and have a higher chance at being in the top of the class, given that on average, people at an osteopathic school have lower GPAs and MCAT in undergrad (indicative of lesser intelligence)

Thank you.

Lol 10/10

 

[verynice]

At first glance 7/10

After reading through the ensuing comments 9/10

GG OP

 

[IslandStyle808]

Alright I can totally see where you're coming from, I was basing my previous statement on experience where I have observed DO's in specialties which would be considered competitive. I'm not a resident, and I don't know what its like getting into competitive residencies.

I will give you an example of where the resident is coming from on this topic. Look at a field like radiation oncology which only has ACGME residencies and no AOA. The program directors of ACGME residencies will always prefer MDs over DOs and plus it is a competitive residency even for MDs. Maybe one DO every 1-2 years matches into a rad onc program.

There are far more ACGME programs than AOA and so being an MD opens more doors than being a DO. DO is still a good option none the less.

 

[circulus vitios]

 

[Cambino]

Dude, he's a resident. He's been through the process and knows what he's saying. Unless another resident, attending, fellow or MS4 disagree validly, i'd adjust the thought process.

Your disagreeing when you haven't entered medical school doesn't mean anything.

ur*

 

[487806]

ur*

You win this round.

 

[Gauss44]

Really? Like what? DO's make a big deal that they can basically do anything that a MD can do.

Yeah, I had the same question: Which specialties are unavailable or less available to D.O.'s?

I've googled this and found nothing.

Regarding OP's post, my understanding or misunderstanding is that grades are a big part of deciding who gets what residency. So, there must be some validity to OP's question.

 

[circulus vitios]

Yeah, I had the same question: Which specialties are unavailable or less available to D.O.'s?

I've googled this and found nothing.

Regarding OP's post, my understanding or misunderstanding is that grades are a big part of deciding who gets what residency. So, there must be some validity to OP's question.

Anything super competitive: dermatology, ophthalmology, radiation oncology, plastic & reconstructive surgery, probably a few others I'm forgetting. There are AOA residencies for all of these except radiation oncology, I think. I'm not sure, however, if the number of AOA slots scales with the number of DOs e.g. there are only 7 AOA plastics programs in the entire country for all DOs. I'm guessing there are a lot more ACGME plastics programs, even if you consider the greater number of MD students.

Matching into competitive ACGME programs as a DO is much harder than matching into an AOA program, too, and it's not like matching into a highly competitive AOA program is easy in the first place. Some places may require exceptionally high USMLE scores, even higher than MD students, or they may simply disallow DO applicants.

Doing anything competitive, whether it's a top ranking program in a non/mildly competitive residency or bottom ranking program in a highly competitive residency, will be more difficult as a DO. I look at it like this: statistically speaking, I'm more likely to be limited by my own intelligence and work ethic than I am by the two letters after my name.

 

[Sephiroth]

In the 2013 match, 2 DOs matched rad onc, 4 matched derm (including 1 PGY-1), 1 matched otolaryngology, 2 match neurosurgery in the ACGME match. So getting these competitive positions from ACGME is pretty close to out. The question then is how many spots are available from AOA. I tried looking it up, and it's there, but not in a format that I could compile without way too much effort, unless anyone knows a different source for that information.

 

[circulus vitios]

In the 2013 match, 2 DOs matched rad onc, 4 matched derm (including 1 PGY-1), 1 matched otolaryngology, 2 match neurosurgery in the ACGME match. So getting these competitive positions from ACGME is pretty close to out. The question then is how many spots are available from AOA. I tried looking it up, and it's there, but not in a format that I could compile without way too much effort, unless anyone knows a different source for that information.

AOA: http://opportunities.osteopathic.org/ (click "program search")
ACGME: https://www.acgme.org/ads/public

 

[Strudel19]

The OP's post is a valid question. The answer is no, don't be a DO if you don't actually want to be a DO. LIke others above me have posted, you'll close virtually all doors to competitive residencies.