Is it possible for international students to do internship outside Australia?

[adrianus]

Hi,

I am an Indonesian citizen though educated in Singapore, and juggling whether to apply to Australian graduate-entry medicine.

I heard that due to the increasing number of medical graduates, they (Australian schools) could not guarantee internship posts for international students. On the other hand, internship is compulsory for medical registration- so how is this going to be?

Or can we do internship outside Australia? For example, after graduating with MBBS from Aussie, then we do one year internship in Singapore, then go back to Aussie to continue residency/specialist training? If so, what countries are the options to do internship year?

Thanks for the info!

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[Excanuk]

Briefly yes it's possible.

The AMC recognises internships from Malaysia, Singapore and New Zealand. There may be other recognised countries but those are the three that are considered equivalent to Australian internship.

 

[jdefoe]

Also I think you can go rural, can't you? From what I've heard there will be a lot of spots open in rural areas?

 

[shan564]

Also I think you can go rural, can't you? From what I've heard there will be a lot of spots open in rural areas?

"From what I've heard" is the most that anybody can say about that. There are open spots in rural areas right now, but nobody really knows for sure if they'll still be around in 4 years. The increased number of medical students means that the locals may soon be sucking up all of the rural spots.

 

[SchwannCell]

Briefly yes it's possible.

The AMC recognises internships from Malaysia, Singapore and New Zealand. There may be other recognised countries but those are the three that are considered equivalent to Australian internship.

I'm confused.....I'm a new zealander studying in Dubai (third year MBBS) i wanna know if i can go back to new zealand to do my internship if i've done my USMLE step 1 only (also, do i have an advantage having done my USMLE and scored 99).....please help, any info would be usefull!!!!

Thank you 🙂

 

[redshifteffect]

I'm confused.....I'm a new zealander studying in Dubai (third year MBBS) i wanna know if i can go back to new zealand to do my internship if i've done my USMLE step 1 only (also, do i have an advantage having done my USMLE and scored 99).....please help, any info would be usefull!!!!

Thank you 🙂

The USMLE is useless for a residency in Australia/New Zealand and any of the above Asian countries. Most institutions will not use this at all in deciding whether or not to give you a job.

You can try and apply for an internship in NZ but you will be somewhere below an international student (who got a NZ degree) and above an overseas graduate (who does not have a PR/Citizenship). It just depends on how many electives you have in NZ, what your references are like and how competitive the local grads are.

 

[Dr.Millisevert]

Briefly yes it's possible.

The AMC recognises internships from Malaysia, Singapore and New Zealand. There may be other recognised countries but those are the three that are considered equivalent to Australian internship.

That is correct. You can also go to the US/Canada/UK, etc. You just have to complete the same internship paperwork and prove that you have completed the same runs/attachments and have completed the same goals and objectives for each attachment. (ie. that your internship is equivalent to an Australian one) 👍

 

[redshifteffect]

Only issue maybe that in the US/Canada you actually apply directly to the training program you are interested in, so it may be difficult to get something similar to an "internship".

There are the transitional year programs in the US, but I don't have any experience with them.

Plus the UK will probably require writing the PLAB. But it has a similar system to Australia.

 

[shan564]

I'd think that the first year of an internal medicine residency in the US would be equivalent to an internship, right?

 

[redshifteffect]

I'd think that the first year of an internal medicine residency in the US would be equivalent to an internship, right?

For it to be equivalent to Internship you'd need Gen Surg, Gen Med and Emergency medicine.

AFAIK Internal medicine wouldn't give you Gen Surg or Emergency Medicine.

 

[adrianus]

"From what I've heard" is the most that anybody can say about that. There are open spots in rural areas right now, but nobody really knows for sure if they'll still be around in 4 years. The increased number of medical students means that the locals may soon be sucking up all of the rural spots.

Thanks!

By the way I talked to the admission dean at University of Sydney. She said that currently, there is no problem for international students getting internships but in four years, they do expect having difficulty to place international students (IMG + international students trained for MBBS in Aussie) for internship or residency in Australia in general, including rural areas. That's discouraging, but c'est la vie, like the French said.

 

[adrianus]

That is correct. You can also go to the US/Canada/UK, etc. You just have to complete the same internship paperwork and prove that you have completed the same runs/attachments and have completed the same goals and objectives for each attachment. (ie. that your internship is equivalent to an Australian one) 👍

I just read that UK put a restriction on international medical graduates and international students studying in UK to come to / stay in UK as a doctor in training. The restriction came in force in February 2008, so I think it will be very hard, if not impossible, to get internship in UK?

 

[shan564]

Thanks!

By the way I talked to the admission dean at University of Sydney. She said that currently, there is no problem for international students getting internships but in four years, they do expect having difficulty to place international students (IMG + international students trained for MBBS in Aussie) for internship or residency in Australia in general, including rural areas. That's discouraging, but c'est la vie, like the French said.

With regard to that, there's some new info:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=631222

 

[shan564]

Thanks!

By the way I talked to the admission dean at University of Sydney. She said that currently, there is no problem for international students getting internships but in four years, they do expect having difficulty to place international students (IMG + international students trained for MBBS in Aussie) for internship or residency in Australia in general, including rural areas. That's discouraging, but c'est la vie, like the French said.

With regard to that, there's some new info:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=631222

 

[Reanimated]

So just to clarify, the positive news is regarding international students who graduated from Australia, NOT international graduates (those who did not train in Australia right?)
Also regarding the CSP, how many students are under that? (Leaving how many spots open for domestic and international students graduated from Australian medical schools?)

 

[jaketheory]

So just to clarify, the positive news is regarding international students who graduated from Australia, NOT international graduates (those who did not train in Australia right?)
Also regarding the CSP, how many students are under that? (Leaving how many spots open for domestic and international students graduated from Australian medical schools?)

an overwhelming majority are CSP.

A year or 2 back the new government eliminated domestic full fee places making all new domestic places CSP's except at private uni's. There still exist students in the system that were admitted as full fees and continue to pay full fee but there are no newly admitted csp's. also, international students that get PR cannot remain in an international place and can be given a full fee domestic place to stay in the course.

Bond is all full fees and something like half of Notre Dame Sydney is full fee.

 

[shan564]

Also regarding the CSP, how many students are under that? (Leaving how many spots open for domestic and international students graduated from Australian medical schools?)

The CSP issue isn't true anymore... all local students are guaranteed an internship.

 

[JanikeyDoc]

I just read that UK put a restriction on international medical graduates and international students studying in UK to come to / stay in UK as a doctor in training. The restriction came in force in February 2008, so I think it will be very hard, if not impossible, to get internship in UK?

Australian doctors no longer have the privileges they once had in the UK, because the UK is now part of the EU, they have to hire doctors from other EU nations such as France and Germany before considering anyone outside of Europe.

 

[shan564]

Doctors earn less money in the UK anyway, especially when you adjust for purchasing power. A lot of English doctors come to Australia now.

 

[redshifteffect]

I actually have bosses that did their whole training from the UK and if you know someone in the UK they can still set up training positions for you. Though it's getting harder just to rock up and find a job now.

Also the UK is still pretty easy to get into if you have post graduate training. I was in contact with the British medical council re: the FRACGP recently and they said that they allow FRACGP members to do locums within the UK.

 

[Dr.Millisevert]

For it to be equivalent to Internship you'd need Gen Surg, Gen Med and Emergency medicine.

AFAIK Internal medicine wouldn't give you Gen Surg or Emergency Medicine.

Exactly.. which is why if someone was interested in getting a year in the US dual accredited as an "Australian internship" they're better off applying for a "transitional year".

 

[redshifteffect]

Exactly.. which is why if someone was interested in getting a year in the US dual accredited as an "Australian internship" they're better off applying for a "transitional year".

http://www.oakwood.org/?id=1797&sid=12

Heres an example of a "transitional year". It does appear to be remarkably similar to an Internship.

After doing their transitional year do you then have to reapply for a match in another speciality?

 

[Dr.Millisevert]

http://www.oakwood.org/?id=1797&sid=12

Heres an example of a "transitional year". It does appear to be remarkably similar to an Internship.

After doing their transitional year do you then have to reapply for a match in another speciality?

You can.. or you could apply to come back to Aus and apply for Pgy2 positions or for SET, etc. Whatever you like really. 👍

 

[redshifteffect]

You can.. or you could apply to come back to Aus and apply for Pgy2 positions or for SET, etc. Whatever you like really. 👍

Just curious why someone in America would apply for it though? Is it because they haven't decided on what specialty they want to pursue? The fact that it was easy to find these types of programs must mean that there are actually a substantial amount of people interested in it.

 

[jaketheory]

Just curious why someone in America would apply for it though? Is it because they haven't decided on what specialty they want to pursue? The fact that it was easy to find these types of programs must mean that there are actually a substantial amount of people interested in it.

transitional years serve the same puporse as prelim years. there are 2 types of prelim years, med and surgical. certain specialties require a year of postgrad training before you start. many do not specify transitional or prelim, while others may specify the type of prelim year.

the difference between the transitional year and prelim year is the prelim year is often very similar, if not identical, to the first year categorical residency position and the transitional year is very similar to a rotating internship. the transitional year also has lots of electives available. from what i've read the transitional year is much, much, more relaxed than prelim spots too.

often it will be required to match into both your specialty and the transitional/prelim year in the same year. say you are applying for rads, you apply this year to start prelim next year and to start rads the year after, though it is possible to do the prelim/transitional year with no residency secured for the following year and reapply the following year. however, the biggest problem with this, again from what i've read, is that most the specialties requiring transitional and prelim years are very competitive. this means that you could be stuck without a position altogethor after the prelim/transition year. but its more likely that you wont even get that transition/prelim year because the people matching into them are also the ones concurrently matching into highly competitive specialties.

because the transitional years are relaxed in comparison to prelim years with lots of electives they are highly desireable. this and that there are fewer transitional programs makes securing a transitional year highly competitive; it can be hard for US MD grads to get one. thus, i sure wouldnt make a plan of doing a US transitional year and then returning to Aus. in all likelihood if you couldnt get into a US MD school, you are unlikely to get a a transitional year.

also, you'd still have to deal with the whole permanent residency issue. the processing times for applying for registration after finishing a US transitional year may be long considering they'd have to approve its equivalency to an Aus internship. i believe upon completing an Aus internship succesfully you just submit a form and gaining full registration is pretty much automatic. once you have registration a hiring hospital can sponsor you for a visa, but in doing US transitional you'll be overseas, which will not provide very promising networking oppurtunities for securing a job in an Aus hospital.

please correct me if i am mistaken.

 

[redshifteffect]

Say you finish your Internship on Jan 14th, the paperwork to get your full medical registration is completed usually before this date, and you've probably already received a medical registration renewal form in the mail before this date. You fill it in with your payment and on the 14th you get your full registration. It may not arrive for a few days in the mail but it's issued the day you finish your internship.

To transfer to another state is also fairly easy. You can then apply for your PR (provided you have all the paperwork) right after you get your full registration.

 

[theunraveler]

"From what I've heard" is the most that anybody can say about that. There are open spots in rural areas right now, but nobody really knows for sure if they'll still be around in 4 years. The increased number of medical students means that the locals may soon be sucking up all of the rural spots.

When they say rural, how rural are we talking about here? I imagine in my mind being tossed into the middle of the Australian outback in the middle of nowhere...

 

[redshifteffect]

When they say rural, how rural are we talking about here? I imagine in my mind being tossed into the middle of the Australian outback in the middle of nowhere...

Rural can be anywhere where there is a hospital that accepts Interns.

 

[Ozdoc]

Thanks!

By the way I talked to the admission dean at University of Sydney. She said that currently, there is no problem for international students getting internships but in four years, they do expect having difficulty to place international students (IMG + international students trained for MBBS in Aussie) for internship or residency in Australia in general, including rural areas. That's discouraging, but c'est la vie, like the French said.

Unfortunately none of the international students this year were given internship as of yet, and likely will not be able to be able to unless over 105 people don't take positions. Students in this cohort were told this would not happen until the future, so do not listen to what they told you at USyd, it is happening and will only get worse.
Without internship, you can not go into Europe at all. You can apply for the states after spending thousands in exams and hope you can get a spot there, but reconsider your decision to go to any Australian medical schools.

 

[pitman]

Unfortunately none of the international students this year were given internship as of yet, and likely will not be able to be able to unless over 105 people don't take positions. Students in this cohort were told this would not happen until the future, so do not listen to what they told you at USyd, it is happening and will only get worse.
Without internship, you can not go into Europe at all. You can apply for the states after spending thousands in exams and hope you can get a spot there, but reconsider your decision to go to any Australian medical schools.

Hopefully you had the insight to prepare for returning, or at least to apply to other Australian states like SA as an established backup?

 

[shan564]

Unfortunately none of the international students this year were given internship as of yet, and likely will not be able to be able to unless over 105 people don't take positions.

I think this is less unlikely than it sounds. A big chunk of the applicants are people who applied to internships in multiple states, so they'll only be able to accept one of them.

 

[shan564]

This was info I gathered from speaking to the AMC, but it would be good if someone else could confirm it.

I can't confirm it, but I have heard the same thing from a few different people around campus... one student (who is from Singapore) told me that she spoke to some authority who told her that an internship in Singapore would be acceptable, but I'm not sure who that authority is or whether they have it in writing anywhere.

 

[aqsa nausherwan]

hey,
i m a student of pharm D 8th semester in gulf medical university ajman UAE.
i want to do my final year internship in uk as clinical pharmacist trainee in any hospital
but i can't find a way to start the procedure from now.....it wud b so great if somebody can help me on dat....what all I need for dat.....thanx