Is it Possible For This To Happen Any Time Soon??

[SyrianHero]

Grade replacement is a huge reason why so many people get another chance at becoming a physician, but I started to ask myself, is it possible for DO schools to cancel this policy any time soon? I was thinking about this since DO and MD schools seem to be becoming more and more alike, and I was wondering if this policy is going to last for a long time. What do you guys think?

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[MedPR]

Grade replacement is a huge reason why so many people get another chance at becoming a physician, but I started to ask myself, is it possible for DO schools to cancel this policy any time soon? I was thinking about this since DO and MD schools seem to be becoming more and more alike, and I was wondering if this policy is going to last for a long time. What do you guys think?

DO schools pride themselves on having a more holistic application process than MD schools. Removing grade replacement would work against them in that regard. I don't think it will happen.

 

[SyrianHero]

Any other thoughts about this topic?

 

[CastleG8]

I wonder if they would ever adopt academic fresh start, just like the state of Texas. Credit is forgiven after 7 years. .

 

[MedPR]

I wonder if they would ever adopt academic fresh start, just like the state of Texas. Credit is forgiven after 7 years. .

I thought it was 10?

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[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I wonder if they would ever adopt academic fresh start, just like the state of Texas. Credit is forgiven after 7 years. .

Most MD schools would be against it as their SMP programs would suddenly become under enrolled. Likewise this is a reason why MD schools probably will not accept grade replacement policies.

 

[Goro]

I don't foresee it as it limits the pool of potential and very qualified applicants. Not all 4.0 GPA automatons are meant to be good doctors.

Grade replacement is a huge reason why so many people get another chance at becoming a physician, but I started to ask myself, is it possible for DO schools to cancel this policy any time soon? I was thinking about this since DO and MD schools seem to be becoming more and more alike, and I was wondering if this policy is going to last for a long time. What do you guys think?

 

[MedPR]

I don't foresee it as it limits the pool of potential and very qualified applicants. Not all 4.0 GPA automatons are meant to be good doctors.

How so? Just lower your gpa requirements if the grade replacement policy goes away...

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[FrkyBgStok]

How so? Just lower your gpa requirements if the grade replacement policy goes away...

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because it doesn't take into account the older applicants. If you were fortunate enough to get out of high school and know what you want to do, fantastic. But for the people that didn't know, and maybe were more focused on taking care of a family, or working, or didn't have the studying background you had, and started college poorly, their previous grades me unrecoverable without a grade replacement policy and that doesn't mean they will be bad doctors. In order to include these people, which can be argued by some to be better qualified to become a better doctor, your "lower gpa requirements" would have to be embarrassing low. that is just stupid because it tells some people that you can't overcome your mistakes.

 

[MedPR]

because it doesn't take into account the older applicants. If you were fortunate enough to get out of high school and know what you want to do, fantastic. But for the people that didn't know, and maybe were more focused on taking care of a family, or working, or didn't have the studying background you had, and started college poorly, their previous grades me unrecoverable without a grade replacement policy and that doesn't mean they will be bad doctors. In order to include these people, which can be argued by some to be better qualified to become a better doctor, your "lower gpa requirements" would have to be embarrassing low. that is just stupid because it tells some people that you can't overcome your mistakes.

Only if you ignore the fact that ADCOMs look at GPA trends, most recent coursework, and other things that don't necessarily improve GPA by a whole lot without grade replacement.

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[FrkyBgStok]

Only if you ignore the fact that ADCOMs look at GPA trends, most recent coursework, and other things that don't necessarily improve GPA by a whole lot without grade replacement.

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fine, but you also have to ignore the automatic cutoffs that schools have. DMU has 3,500+ applicants for 220 seats and physically looking through everyone who applied would either require a ton more time or a ton more staff. And you would have to look through everyone because of the potential trends that you say. and as DO schools become more competitive, the schools wouldn't drop the admission standards because they don't have to which would effectively negate any chances many of the trending applicants could have.

 

[MedPR]

fine, but you also have to ignore the automatic cutoffs that schools have. DMU has 3,500+ applicants for 220 seats and physically looking through everyone who applied would either require a ton more time or a ton more staff. And you would have to look through everyone because of the potential trends that you say. and as DO schools become more competitive, the schools wouldn't drop the admission standards because they don't have to which would effectively negate any chances many of the trending applicants could have.

Many MD schools get more than twice that amount of apps for half the seats and they manage to matriculate people with low GPAs (like myself). Perhaps the URM apps have an automatic flag on them so they can he sorted using a different cutoff though.

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[FrkyBgStok]

right, but the fact is that having the cutoffs allows MD schools to reduce that number instantly by potentially half. we aren't talking about how to get through apps, we are talking about getting rid of grade replacement. you can't solve it but lowering GPA cutoff and not doing grade replacement. it isn't the same thing like you seemed to imply in a previous post.

 

[MedPR]

right, but the fact is that having the cutoffs allows MD schools to reduce that number instantly by potentially half. we aren't talking about how to get through apps, we are talking about getting rid of grade replacement. you can't solve it but lowering GPA cutoff and not doing grade replacement. it isn't the same thing like you seemed to imply in a previous post.

That's true. I don't think grade replacement is going away (as you can see in my op), but I also don't think it makes a significant proportion of DO matriculants competitive. And by that I mean that the majority of DO students would have acceptable GPAs even without grade replacement.

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[darklabel]

Grade replacement is a huge reason why so many people get another chance at becoming a physician, but I started to ask myself, is it possible for DO schools to cancel this policy any time soon? I was thinking about this since DO and MD schools seem to be becoming more and more alike, and I was wondering if this policy is going to last for a long time. What do you guys think?

No, but with rising GPA/MCAT trends, DO is definitely getting more competitive since much more people qualified for medicine are being rejected in MD programs and use DO as a back up (the panic thread in pre-allo comes to mind). Also, the MCAT is the "great equalizer". While you can retake classes and get A's, getting a 28+ isn't easy when the average MCAT for DO matriculants was far lower a few years ago.

But don't worry OP, I doubt grade replacement will change in the foreseeable future. As for beyond, well I don't really know since the line between DO and MD is getting blurred. You should read the history of DOs and how much it has changed. The curriculum is essentially the same as MDs except for OMM and having to take the COMLEX (Which is stubbornly being kept) are the only real difference. I personally hope they at least change to the USMLE.

 

[DocVapor]

But don't worry OP, I doubt grade replacement will change in the foreseeable future. As for beyond, well I don't really know since the line between DO and MD is getting blurred. You should read the history of DOs and how much it has changed. The curriculum is essentially the same as MDs except for OMM and having to take the COMLEX (Which is stubbornly being kept) are the only real difference. I personally hope they at least change to the USMLE.

I agree that the grade replacement probably isn't going away anytime soon. But why would you think that DO schools would get rid of the COMLEX and go to the USMLE? The USMLE doesn't test OMM. Why is it being "stubborn" to continue using a test that includes a large portion of the DO education instead of switching to a test that completely ignores it?

/Sorry to continue derailing the thread.

 

[touchpause13]

I think darklabel used the word stubborn because they like many others aren't too psyched on the idea of having to take double the board exams

 

[hv92]

.

 

[darklabel]

I think darklabel used the word stubborn because they like many others aren't too psyched on the idea of having to take double the board exams

Yeah, that's pretty much why . Didn't mean it towards disrespect towards OMM, just seems more students taking both aren't psyched by it and neither am I in the future. Besides, maybe you can attest, but from what I read, COMLEX is inferior to USMLE. Maybe AOA can institute USMLE and have a smaller version of COMLEX for OMM or other Osteopathic-related materials? I feel like it would also help give Osteos better footing for residencies (especially with the looming residency crunch).

I know I'm being ridiculous, but a pre-osteo can dream.

 

[NeuroLAX]

Yeah, that's pretty much why . Didn't mean it towards disrespect towards OMM, just seems more students taking both aren't psyched by it and neither am I in the future. Besides, maybe you can attest, but from what I read, COMLEX is inferior to USMLE. Maybe AOA can institute USMLE and have a smaller version of COMLEX for OMM or other Osteopathic-related materials? I feel like it would also help give Osteos better footing for residencies (especially with the looming residency crunch).

I know I'm being ridiculous, but a pre-osteo can dream.

That's why many study strictly for the USMLE and just supplement OMM-related material for the COMLEX.

 

[gmcguitar4]

I agree that grade replacement is here to stay as long as DO schools operate under their philosophy. The MCAT average for matriculating students will definitely increase over time though as it gets more competitive. This will become the major weeding out factor. I love grade replacement because without it I would have no shot at med schools. I know I could have easily gotten a 3.8+ gpa in my undergrad if I didn't go through some traumatic experiences coupled with immaturity. As a result, it has made me realize how bad I really wanted to go into medicine and how much harder I would now have to work for it. Also accumulated some great life experiences along the way.

 

[EnergyDrink]

Without grade replacement, I would not have been accepted. My whole GPA was literally replaced with my graduate GPA.

I think it is a good practice.

 

[DocVapor]

Yeah, that's pretty much why . Didn't mean it towards disrespect towards OMM, just seems more students taking both aren't psyched by it and neither am I in the future. Besides, maybe you can attest, but from what I read, COMLEX is inferior to USMLE. Maybe AOA can institute USMLE and have a smaller version of COMLEX for OMM or other Osteopathic-related materials? I feel like it would also help give Osteos better footing for residencies (especially with the looming residency crunch).

I know I'm being ridiculous, but a pre-osteo can dream.

Sorry if I came off as offended/offensive, didn't intend for that. I am a first year, and am certainly not looking forward to taking both the USMLE and COMLEX. With the new unified accreditation system for residencies, the hope is that all residencies will begin to accept the COMLEX. This means you will only have to take one test. Of course, until there is a reliable calculator to compare the scores, and "old-school" program directors still favor one or the other, it's safer for DO students to just take both.

I'm not sure about one test being "better" than the other. They have both been approved by institutions that rate tests to be appropriate for their medical students. I'm more willing to accept that than all of the hearsay that you will hear from people about the tests.

I also had the idea of using the USMLE and then having a separate, smaller test just for OMM, but deleted it before posting. It still ends up being two tests that you have to take, and I have a feeling it wouldn't end up being all that much cheaper to produce, administer, or to take. That then would seem to defeat the purpose.

 

[darklabel]

Sorry if I came off as offended/offensive, didn't intend for that. I am a first year, and am certainly not looking forward to taking both the USMLE and COMLEX. With the new unified accreditation system for residencies, the hope is that all residencies will begin to accept the COMLEX. This means you will only have to take one test. Of course, until there is a reliable calculator to compare the scores, and "old-school" program directors still favor one or the other, it's safer for DO students to just take both.

I'm not sure about one test being "better" than the other. They have both been approved by institutions that rate tests to be appropriate for their medical students. I'm more willing to accept that than all of the hearsay that you will hear from people about the tests.

I also had the idea of using the USMLE and then having a separate, smaller test just for OMM, but deleted it before posting. It still ends up being two tests that you have to take, and I have a feeling it wouldn't end up being all that much cheaper to produce, administer, or to take. That then would seem to defeat the purpose.

Yeah, its all pretty murky and I guess it'll just stay the way it is. Taking the USMLE will show even the old program directors that DOs aren't inferior to MDs. I doubt many will accept the COMLEX because they are just used to the USMLE and its scoring system; most people tend to hate change. You're also right about having 2 tests, even a smaller one would defeat the purpose.

I'm just glad for having SDN as a resource, especially from med students like you. I remember reading how more than half of DOs don't bother taking the USMLE because Osteo schools tell them it is unecessary. I might have been one of those students if it wasn't for this resource.

 

[125896]

That's true. I don't think grade replacement is going away (as you can see in my op), but I also don't think it makes a significant proportion of DO matriculants competitive. And by that I mean that the majority of DO students would have acceptable GPAs even without grade replacement.

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Actually in everyone's honest opinion how much can grade replacement help. For example if you have a 2.75 and 120+ hours, how much can taking your basic sciences over again help especially if there are some W's there from withdrawals. It seems to me that there would just be to big of an inertia from your course work to be effected significantly.

 

[darklabel]

That's true. I don't think grade replacement is going away (as you can see in my op), but I also don't think it makes a significant proportion of DO matriculants competitive. And by that I mean that the majority of DO students would have acceptable GPAs even without grade replacement.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using SDN Mobile[/QUOTe
Actually in everyone's honest opinion how much can grade replacement help. For example if you have a 2.75 and 120+ hours, how much can taking your basic sciences over again help especially if there are some W's there from withdrawals. It seems to me that there would just be to big of an inertia from your course work to be effected significantly.

Well going from 0.0 (F) and replacing that with an A (4.0) will do wonders to one's GPA but I understand your point. Also, if someone did mediocre their whole college career, it just doesn't seem likely that they will redo ALL those classes they have to retake and study hard to make A's (which can be more than a year's work). Grade replacement can only go so far. With it, my mediocre sciGPA rises dramatically (3.2 -> 3.8) and I only retook 2 classes so grade replacement does help, but it depends on the person.

 

[DocVapor]

Yeah, its all pretty murky and I guess it'll just stay the way it is. Taking the USMLE will show even the old program directors that DOs aren't inferior to MDs. I doubt many will accept the COMLEX because they are just used to the USMLE and its scoring system; most people tend to hate change. You're also right about having 2 tests, even a smaller one would defeat the purpose.

I'm just glad for having SDN as a resource, especially from med students like you. I remember reading how more than half of DOs don't bother taking the USMLE because Osteo schools tell them it is unecessary. I might have been one of those students if it wasn't for this resource.

Thanks for the kind words. I personally just found SDN a few months ago myself and have found it to be very helpful.

Certainly as time goes on the COMLEX will gain more acceptance, especially if a good calculator is made to compare the two directly. The more students that take both, the more quickly people will figure out how to compare the two tests.

Maybe it's not so daunting to me because I just don't fear tests like some others do, but I just look at the USMLE as another hoop to jump through to keep my options open. It's not a mountain I have to climb over. It's worth it to make sure I can get a residency in an area that both my wife and I will be happy.