Is it too late for higher stat applicants / should I consider DO this cycle?

[ggdoc145]

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[Rogue42]

Many people on here will tell you two things:
1. It is not too late. Too late is typically considered after Thanksgiving with a little more lenience given to higher stat applicants. In perspective, I am a lower stat applicant - I applied Oct. 2 (though I was already verified) and received secondaries so far at four schools.

2. With your stats, people will tell you to wait and apply MD only again. DO "closes a lot of doors" even in primary care and especially with a merger.

A question you must ask yourself is: With my stats, why have I not gotten in, and what can I improve before next cycle if needed?

Goodluck!

 

[ggdoc145]

Many people on here will tell you two things:
1. It is not too late. Too late is typically considered after Thanksgiving with a little more lenience given to higher stat applicants. In perspective, I am a lower stat applicant - I applied Oct. 2 (though I was already verified) and received secondaries so far at four schools.

2. With your stats, people will tell you to wait and apply MD only again. DO "closes a lot of doors" even in primary care and especially with a merger.

A question you must ask yourself is: With my stats, why have I not gotten in, and what can I improve before next cycle if needed?

Goodluck!

Thanks for the tips. I am ready to reapply with my gap year job (my main weakness was clinical exposure, and now I have a ton of it!). My adviser suggested that both my app and committee letter were already strong so it would just come down to reapplying with my new clinical hours and hope I'm better off vis-a-vis yield protection.

How about if I wait until mid-November to early December (i.e. just past Thanksgiving)? I want to wait a month and see if I get any MD IIs before sending in DO apps.

 

[Goro]

How about if I wait until mid-November to early December (i.e. just past Thanksgiving)? I want to wait a month and see if I get any MD IIs before sending in DO apps.

Suggest that you start shadowing some DOs and get LORs from same. Apply by Tgiving. Suggest applying to a throwaway school now to get verified.

Also suggest that you look very seriously at rewriting all your essays, and having multiple eyeballs vet them

What was your school list? Your GPA is at or even <10th %ile for a number of Really Top Schools, and many SDNers have the delusion that a high MCAT ameliorates a weak app.

 

[ggdoc145]

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[Goro]

Thanks for the timeline advice--my advisers were unsure how late was too late for DO schools. I'll start AACOMAS soon and look into shadowing.

I had multiple advisers look at my AMCAS essays and they thought they were fine. A few of my secondaries admittedly felt rushed but I did devote time to them and had eyes on them. The rest were thought-out and targeted to the school as much as the prompts allowed.

My advisers recommended applying to top schools as we are a major feeder school to T20 med schools, with a number of people with my GPA/MCAT getting good news from them, although I'm well-aware that with a 3.6 I'm obviously pushing it. Given my advisers' experience and past success, I figured why not try.

As for school list:

Albert Einstein
Boston University (R)
Brown
Case Western
Columbia
Cooper Rowan
Drexel
Emory
George Washington (H)
Georgetown (R)
Harvard
Hofstra
Jefferson
Loyola Chicago
Medical College of Wisconsin
Mt. Sinai
New York Medical College (H)
Northwestern
Nova Southeastern
Oakland
Quinnipiac
Rosalind Franklin
Rush
Saint Louis University
SUNY Downstate
Temple
Tufts
UCLA (David Geffen)
University of Chicago
University of Maryland (WL)
University of Miami
University of Pennsylvania
USC
Washington University St. Louis
Weill Cornell

Chances are best at schools where your sGPA is > the 10th %ile for matriculants. How are your ECs?

 

[ggdoc145]

Chances are best at schools where your sGPA is > the 10th %ile for matriculants. How are your ECs?

Fairly strong. That was the main focus of my MD interview as they were quite unique and involved in nature. I was a little light on clinical experience (~500 hrs) but from my interview and advising conversations, I don't think it was a concern. With my current job I will have 3x that amount if I am to reapply next cycle.

I asked one of my school's advisers for their thoughts and they speculated that some schools didn't know what to do with me right away given the new traffic rules, rather than concerns about shortcomings in my application.

 

[Medic741]

Hi y'all,

I am a current applicant and trying to decide whether to apply to a handful of DO schools this late in the cycle. I applied to 35 MD programs (equal mix of top, mid, and low tier), complete early/mid Aug, and have had no luck so far, despite a 3.6/519 from an ivy. I had one II, which turned into a WL spot. Other than that I have 2Rs and 2 holds. Given the new AMCAS traffic rules and getting WL'ed by my only state school, I am concerned that I might be stuck on waitlists forever or not get in this cycle. My advisers don't know what to expect with the new traffic rules and said it would not be a bad idea to look into DO programs.

At this point, I would much rather be an osteopathic med student than a reapplicant next year. I love my gap year job as a psych tech but really want to move on to medical school. I am mostly interested in primary care and thought about DO on-and-off for a while, just decided to go MD-only after I got my MCAT score and saw how $$$ some of the deposits can be. The other factor is that I have a long-term partner in the mix who is also applying, so I would consider picking DO over MD if it means being close to him. Likewise, avoiding a second admissions cycle would make couples matching much more doable.

Right now I am debating whether it's worth the possible cost of applying + deposits if accepted, and whether it would be too late if I waited until early Dec to see if I get more MD IIs.

Thanks for all the advice everyone.

As a DO student I would highly, highly recommend you delay gratification to reapply next year if need be.

 

[Isoval]

I think your stats are high enough that you should prepare for a reapplication next year with new essays and the like.

If you do end up reapplying, I would consider DO in a reapplication.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Don't apply DO this year. Ride the cycle out, you might get surprised, and then reapply MD next year with your top 8 DO schools thrown in.

 

[Goro]

Fairly strong. That was the main focus of my MD interview as they were quite unique and involved in nature. I was a little light on clinical experience (~500 hrs) but from my interview and advising conversations, I don't think it was a concern. With my current job I will have 3x that amount if I am to reapply next cycle.

I asked one of my school's advisers for their thoughts and they speculated that some schools didn't know what to do with me right away given the new traffic rules, rather than concerns about shortcomings in my application.

500 hrs of clinical exposure is NOT light!

 

[ggdoc145]

500 hrs of clinical exposure is NOT light!

Most of it was outside of traditional hospital volunteering, with the exception of shadowing. I have a big mental health focus so I was worried it might be perceived as 'not medical enough' (some people think this way). My new job (started mid-cycle, not on my apps) is very integrated into nursing and medical staff so that should not be an issue if I reapply.

I feel like I am just grasping at straws to explain why my cycle is running so late. My MD interviewer if anything was trying to probe if I would turn down the school for ones in line with my stats. *shrugs*

 

[Goro]

Most of it was outside of traditional hospital volunteering, with the exception of shadowing. I have a big mental health focus so I was worried it might be perceived as 'not medical enough' (some people think this way). My new job (started mid-cycle, not on my apps) is very integrated into nursing and medical staff so that should not be an issue if I reapply.

It's a pre-med delusion that patient contact experience has to be in hospital. I've seen SDNers go to med school with only EMT, paramedic or hospice experience.

 

[ggdoc145]

It's a pre-med delusion that patient contact experience has to be in hospital. I've seen SDNers go to med school with only EMT, paramedic or hospice experience.

That's what I thought but it's good to get some validation when SDN says these types of things. Maybe this cycle is weird for me with the traffic rules, but I figured DO would not close many doors if I am mostly interested in in primary care and medicine for underserved communities.

 

[On_The_Way_Up]

Do you have any nonclinical volunteering? What about research?

 

[ggdoc145]

Do you have any nonclinical volunteering? What about research?

Actually do not have much nonclinical volunteering (like 30 hrs) but I demonstrated my altruism in other ways. Did a service project as part of a paid fellowship and worked with relatively vulnerable people as a clinical volunteer.

I wrote a senior thesis and had a poster presentation. Two separate projects, one for a year, the other for summer.

 

[Magus5454]

It's a pre-med delusion that patient contact experience has to be in hospital. I've seen SDNers go to med school with only EMT, paramedic or hospice experience.

Like this one. Tons of EMT experience

 

[Goro]

I am in the exact same position as you with only a slightly higher GPA 3.7 with lower MCAT 513 and currently in senior year at an ivy. Less than 1 month ago with only 1 interview - no I did not want to go through this again, and yes I would definitely rather go to DO school and than go through another application cycle. So the last week of September with only 1 MD interview on hand I did go ahead and apply to 3 DO schools. Within 24 hrs I got my first DO interview ( certainly a moral booster ) and today I got my second DO interview. I decided to go ahead with DO applications to confirm a position at a school - spent several hundred $$ but was worth the safety of knowing I will a have some choices ( assuming I will get into DO school). With that been said - I am still waiting to hear back from first MD II and in the past week I have 2 more MD II's at amazing schools, have had 2 R's - Tulane & BU, no holds yet. I do feel it is still early in the cycle, you are at an amazing school & very strong MCAT. For me having the safety of DO schools was definitely eased my concerns and the interviews will be an learning experience, but I do think it is still early and more MD II's are coming for all of us.

You have made me realize that this is a new pattern that is developing. I have noticed overtime at my school that we get a number of students who were accepted to MD schools but chose to come to us for various reasons.

You on the other hand, represent a pool of people who would rather become a doctor one year earlier and not have to go through another application cycle. I find this commendable on a number of levels.

 

[CharmCity94]

You have made me realize that this is a new pattern that is developing. I have noticed overtime at my school that we get a number of students who were accepted to MD schools but chose to come to us for various reasons.

You on the other hand, represent a pool of people who would rather become a doctor one year earlier and not have to go through another application cycle. I find this commendable on a number of levels.

Hey Goro, do you have any insight into why more students are going DO with an MD acceptance? My guesses would be:

1. Desirable location/near family
2. Strong personal experience with a DO
3. Lessening stigma of DOs/want to do family practice anyway
4. Money (e.g. LECOM tuition).

Given the merger though, do you think that trend will fade away again? But I agree with DO >> going through another cycle.

 

[Goro]

Hey Goro, do you have any insight into why more students are going DO with an MD acceptance? My guesses would be:

1. Desirable location/near family
2. Strong personal experience with a DO
3. Lessening stigma of DOs/want to do family practice anyway
4. Money (e.g. LECOM tuition).

Given the merger though, do you think that trend will fade away again? But I agree with DO >> going through another cycle.

You have made some astute observations.
To your list add:
5) Happy with taking an acceptance now and getting to be a doctor 1-2 years earlier than having to wait for another MD cycle.

 

[Doc_Ock]

Current DO student. Highly advise you to apply MD next year. Yeah it's trite but DO really does close a lot of doors for you.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

If you look at NRMP data for DO students in 2018, 80 to 90+% match rate for FM, IM, and Peds. OB was over 60%. That covers primary care. Not all gloom and doom if you're a DO interested in these areas as OP stated they were. True, some programs wont interview DOs, been that way for decades. But OP should have a very good chance of matching FM, IM, or Peds. OP has a very personal decision to make whether to stay in this cycle or apply next year. Good luck and best wishes!

 

[ChiDr]

Something sounds strange. You have, on paper, a better app than most for MD (you have the average for GPA at most and you have way above average for MCAT). What is the red flag? Shadowing? Interview skills? Letters of Rec? Clinical? Personal statement? Essays? ECs? Leadership?

I really cannot fathom why you have not received any additional invites for interviews with 35 schools. There has to be something that needs improvement.

Strengthen app with shadowing, clinical exposure, and leadership roles. Apply to MD again. Tell a great story and hope for better luck.

 

[Tozanzibarbymotorcar]

Something sounds strange. You have, on paper, a better app than most for MD (you have the average for GPA at most and you have way above average for MCAT). What is the red flag? Shadowing? Interview skills? Letters of Rec? Clinical? Personal statement? Essays? ECs? Leadership?

I really cannot fathom why you have not received any additional invites for interviews with 35 schools. There has to be something that needs improvement.

Strengthen app with shadowing, clinical exposure, and leadership roles. Apply to MD again. Tell a great story and hope for better luck.

Agreed. There is a red flag somewhere. I’d see if someone can screen you LOR. Do you have a committee letter?

 

[molly41]

You have made me realize that this is a new pattern that is developing. I have noticed overtime at my school that we get a number of students who were accepted to MD schools but chose to come to us for various reasons.

You on the other hand, represent a pool of people who would rather become a doctor one year earlier and not have to go through another application cycle. I find this commendable on a number of levels.

Thank you for you kind comment - I did get accepted to my first MD interview. So very happy I did not take a gap year. I can now say I am part of the MD class of 2023🙂. Looking forward to 2 more MD interviews coming up in the next month. I do feel if MD school did not work out I would have been very happy practicing as a DO.

 

[ggdoc145]

Something sounds strange. You have, on paper, a better app than most for MD (you have the average for GPA at most and you have way above average for MCAT). What is the red flag? Shadowing? Interview skills? Letters of Rec? Clinical? Personal statement? Essays? ECs? Leadership?

I really cannot fathom why you have not received any additional invites for interviews with 35 schools. There has to be something that needs improvement.

Strengthen app with shadowing, clinical exposure, and leadership roles. Apply to MD again. Tell a great story and hope for better luck.

Just wanted to update y'all in case someone needs advice for a future cycle and finds this thread.

I ended up receiving 6 MD IIs (went to 5), which turned into 3 acceptances! Got some scholarships too. One was off a wait list around traffic day. Admissions is unpredictable and it's not over until it's over.