Is it true?

[NYC Medic]

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Is it true that regardless of doing well in school (GPA 3.8) and Step I (265) I am still not competitive enough for very competitive surgery residencies just because I attend a caribbean med-school??

 

[tkim]

http://www.valuemd.com/st-georges-university-school-medicine/210639-plastics-sgu-grads.html

 

[shadowfox87]

What do you mean by very competitive surgery residencies? You can see the residency match list for caribbean schools, there's a lot of people who have matched into very competitive residencies. You might want to contact them and ask, but I doubt they will share their stats. However, I know that there are people with stats even lower than yours from carib who have matched into ROAD.

 

[islandCrazy]

There are several discussions on VMD about this and as expressed there are several more factors then just Step scores that need to be taken into account. Also it was pointed out by several members over there that most people who do match into competitive fields went above and beyond what is recommended. Several students took a year off and did research, volunteered, etc to fine tune their application.

 

[gro2001]

Is it true that regardless of doing well in school (GPA 3.8) and Step I (265) I am still not competitive enough for very competitive surgery residencies just because I attend a caribbean med-school??

Lets put it this way: the stats that would make an AMG a shoe-in will not necessarily make you competitive for the same position. Depending on the speciality and all the other things in your application (especially research and connections) you may be more or less competitive.

 

[womp]

Yes. Unless you're really magic, with tons of relevant publications and high falutin LORs.

And you have to be careful with the statistics too, a lot of IMGs who get into top residencies are not from the Caribbean cottage industry, but from real foreign medical schools (where the citizens of the country attend).

A guy with a medical degree from Cambridge or Dundee with a 250 is not exactly the same as a guy with a 250 from Ross.

 

[amakhosidlo]

Is it true that regardless of doing well in school (GPA 3.8) and Step I (265) I am still not competitive enough for very competitive surgery residencies just because I attend a caribbean med-school??

A) Why is this question still here.

B) I hope your status is still correct, and that you didn't enroll only to find this out now...

 

[OveractiveBrain]

Is it true that regardless of doing well in school (GPA 3.8) and Step I (265) I am still not competitive enough for very competitive surgery residencies just because I attend a caribbean med-school??

What people are saying is

(1) Wow, you've got a great score portfolio
(2) Being from the carribean definitely decreases your competitiveness. Some places don't even look at Caribs at all.
(3) Even though that's going against you, a great portfolio can still make wonders happen
(4) GPA and Step I are hardly sufficient for anyone (carib or US) to get a competitive residency. You need to have GPA / Cass Rank, Step I, Research with Pubs in the field you intent to go, Letter of Recommendation, and, as a bonus AOA. If you have all 5, you are a shoe-in for a residency. You may not get THAT one, but you will get A residency.

A few anectdotes:
(1) No Ortho. AMG. 262 Step I, all Honors 3rd year, 16 interviews. No Ortho
(2) No Derm. 272 Step I, AOA President, AMG, No derm.

No one stat can make you competitive on its own and being carib significantly reduces your opportunities regardless of quality of applicant

 

[BigRedder]

What people are saying is

(1) Wow, you've got a great score portfolio
(2) Being from the carribean definitely decreases your competitiveness. Some places don't even look at Caribs at all.
(3) Even though that's going against you, a great portfolio can still make wonders happen
(4) GPA and Step I are hardly sufficient for anyone (carib or US) to get a competitive residency. You need to have GPA / Cass Rank, Step I, Research with Pubs in the field you intent to go, Letter of Recommendation, and, as a bonus AOA. If you have all 5, you are a shoe-in for a residency. You may not get THAT one, but you will get A residency.

A few anectdotes:
(1) No Ortho. AMG. 262 Step I, all Honors 3rd year, 16 interviews. No Ortho
(2) No Derm. 272 Step I, AOA President, AMG, No derm.

No one stat can make you competitive on its own and being carib significantly reduces your opportunities regardless of quality of applicant

"16 interviews. No Ortho" suggests that the applicant was good enough on paper but couldn't seal the deal in person. So that doesn't really speak to the good-enough-on-paper issue.

 

[womp]

"16 interviews. No Ortho" suggests that the applicant was good enough on paper but couldn't seal the deal in person. So that doesn't really speak to the good-enough-on-paper issue.

Agreed. There must have been something creepy or wrong with him. Or one of his letters was a total disaster.

 

[gravitywave]

"16 interviews. No Ortho" suggests that the applicant was good enough on paper but couldn't seal the deal in person. So that doesn't really speak to the good-enough-on-paper issue.

Agreed. There must have been something creepy or wrong with him. Or one of his letters was a total disaster.

...or got cocky and didn't rank all the interviews. Still can't believe that people do it, but they do.

 

[NYC Medic]

A) Why is this question still here.

B) I hope your status is still correct, and that you didn't enroll only to find this out now...

I thought it would pretty be obvious that I am a medical student since I mentioned taking the step....unless of course undergrads are now allowed to sit for the step as well?

 

[Hemichordate]

Is it true that regardless of doing well in school (GPA 3.8) and Step I (265) I am still not competitive enough for very competitive surgery residencies just because I attend a caribbean med-school??

I thought you attended Weill Cornell Medical College?

 

[tkim]

I thought it would pretty be obvious that I am a medical student since I mentioned taking the step....unless of course undergrads are now allowed to sit for the step as well?

Yeah, good luck with that snappy comeback.

 

[lrkoehle]

I thought it would pretty be obvious that I am a medical student since I mentioned taking the step....unless of course undergrads are now allowed to sit for the step as well?

The reason people asked that question is because you'd have to be stupid to make it all the way to taking Step-I at a Caribbean school before realizing how much of a disadvantage you're at because you're at a Caribbean school. People probably thought you were asking a hypothetical question. Sorry to be so blunt, but your attitude in the above post was ridiculous.

 

[Gheorgia]

Is it true that regardless of doing well in school (GPA 3.8) and Step I (265) I am still not competitive enough for very competitive surgery residencies just because I attend a caribbean med-school??

You're still competitive for most surgical residencies with the exception of Plastics. You may not have as many doors open or have much choice for where you have to go for residency, but "most" surgical specialties are not so competitive with the exception of ortho, plastics, and neuro that they'll turn down someone with a 265 just because they went to a Carribbean medical school.

 

[Gheorgia]

The reason people asked that question is because you'd have to be stupid to make it all the way to taking Step-I at a Caribbean school before realizing how much of a disadvantage you're at because you're at a Caribbean school. People probably thought you were asking a hypothetical question. Sorry to be so blunt, but your attitude in the above post was ridiculous.

In a situation like this, I would advise the OP to see if he can transfer to a US medical school. Yes it's ridiculously hard to transfer coming from a carribbean school, but US schools have been known to "poach" applicants with high USMLE step I and if this person is dead set on a competitive US specialty - transferring to a US medical school is well worth it.

 

[hrandani]

In all honesty you guys wouldn't believe the sorts of lies and defamation and rumors that people outside the united states hear about getting residencies.

Frequently, their own school's administration is the worst offender. Some of it is just not being familiar with how things are now, but there's really no excuse. Some of it is actively malicious. I was in a class meeting for step I preparation and one of the upperclassmen came and advised us to only read big robbins to prepare for the boards.

People who don't use the internet that much often rely on advice from family members, some of whom took the exam back when it was on paper over two days and pulled strings to get residency back when it was far less competitive.

Very, very few people actively research it, and are honest with themselves and understand "as an IMG, statistically I have less than a 1 in 2 chance of getting a residency and not all of that is under my control." It's just too depressing.

 

[islandCrazy]

In all honesty you guys wouldn't believe the sorts of lies and defamation and rumors that people outside the united states hear about getting residencies.

Frequently, their own school's administration is the worst offender. Some of it is just not being familiar with how things are now, but there's really no excuse. Some of it is actively malicious. I was in a class meeting for step I preparation and one of the upperclassmen came and advised us to only read big robbins to prepare for the boards.

People who don't use the internet that much often rely on advice from family members, some of whom took the exam back when it was on paper over two days and pulled strings to get residency back when it was far less competitive.

Very, very few people actively research it, and are honest with themselves and understand "as an IMG, statistically I have less than a 1 in 2 chance of getting a residency and not all of that is under my control." It's just too depressing.

Perfect 👍 I couldn't have written it better myself.

Honestly American graduates will be surprised of some of the many things that many uneducated Caribbean graduates have turned into facts. These facts are thrown around on a daily basis not only by students but also professors and administrations. I used to be all about helping educating these people however it becomes tiring when you show someone facts from NRMP and they try to discredit it based on an anecdote. Oh well its their money wasted I mean who agrees to spend between 100-300k on a Caribbean education without research.

 

[ADORE]

Perfect 👍 I couldn't have written it better myself.

Honestly American graduates will be surprised of some of the many things that many uneducated Caribbean graduates have turned into facts. These facts are thrown around on a daily basis not only by students but also professors and administrations. I used to be all about helping educating these people however it becomes tiring when you show someone facts from NRMP and they try to discredit it based on an anecdote. Oh well its their money wasted I mean who agrees to spend between 100-300k on a Caribbean education without research.

Here's one I heard yesterday:

"Caribbean graduates aren't IMG's. What are you talking about?"

 

[islandCrazy]

Here's one I heard yesterday:

"Caribbean graduates aren't IMG's. What are you talking about?"

Heard it already, someone tried to tell me how they aren't considered an IMG because even though they went to a Caribbean school being born in America means they are an AMG 😱

 

[ar2388]

Heard it already, someone tried to tell me how they aren't considered an IMG because even though they went to a Caribbean school being born in America means they are an AMG 😱

haha oh man... i hope my friend at AUC has her facts straight.. altho shes only an MS1

 

[Hemichordate]

.

 

[ArcGurren]

What people are saying is

(1) Wow, you've got a great score portfolio
(2) Being from the carribean definitely decreases your competitiveness. Some places don't even look at Caribs at all.
(3) Even though that's going against you, a great portfolio can still make wonders happen
(4) GPA and Step I are hardly sufficient for anyone (carib or US) to get a competitive residency. You need to have GPA / Cass Rank, Step I, Research with Pubs in the field you intent to go, Letter of Recommendation, and, as a bonus AOA. If you have all 5, you are a shoe-in for a residency. You may not get THAT one, but you will get A residency.

A few anectdotes:
(1) No Ortho. AMG. 262 Step I, all Honors 3rd year, 16 interviews. No Ortho
(2) No Derm. 272 Step I, AOA President, AMG, No derm.

No one stat can make you competitive on its own and being carib significantly reduces your opportunities regardless of quality of applicant

I know people who have matched Ortho for far, far fewer credentials. Sounds like this person was either (a) not ranking all of his interviews or (b) interviews very poorly or is a sociopath. Either way there is no way that someone with these credentials cannot match SOMEWHERE in these fields (at least in Ortho, Derm is a bit more of a tossup).

People who read this PLEASE do not panic; this is not representative of the vast majority of what usually happens.

 

[Gheorgia]

I know people who have matched Ortho for far, far fewer credentials. Sounds like this person was either (a) not ranking all of his interviews or (b) interviews very poorly or is a sociopath. Either way there is no way that someone with these credentials cannot match SOMEWHERE in these fields (at least in Ortho, Derm is a bit more of a tossup).

People who read this PLEASE do not panic; this is not representative of the vast majority of what usually happens.

It sounds like typical SDN paranoia. According to NMRP data, even someone with average board scores (220-230) has a 2/3 chance of matching in ortho. assuming they graduate from a US medical school

 

[gravitywave]

It sounds like typical SDN paranoia. According to NMRP data, even someone with average board scores (220-230) has a 2/3 chance of matching in ortho. assuming they graduate from a US medical school

now the shoe is on the other foot.... if you're LCME/262 with 16 ortho interviews and you don't get something, something else is wrong (likely you're just a huge douche and/or had crap letters because you were unable to make any friends in the ortho dept.) but don't go thinking that matching something like ortho is a walk in the park... only about 30% of those who match ortho do so with a Step <230, so it's self-selection FTW here.