Is it unhealthy to be dead-set on mediocrity?

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
P

printer

Full Member
10+ Year Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2009
Messages
12
Reaction score
1
Members don't see this ad.
I am wondering if it's ok to accept the fact that I am going to consistently be at the bottom of my class? This doesn't mean I'm going to just completely throw away everything, I am still going to try to study and learn, but I am preparing to settle for a lot lower, and know the fact that everyone is going to be much smarter than me by miles.

I know it's only my first year and we've only had classes for like a month or so, but I'm starting to already condition myself to understand that I'm going to be at the bottom of the class academically. When the application statistics for our incoming class came out, I saw that I was pretty much below average in all categories, which makes me think I'm going to really struggle just to pass through school. Personally, I know I am really not that bright of a student, and even in college classes I could never be in the top part of any class.

I know all the teachers and deans are always saying you should always reach for your highest potential or whatever, but I feel like I am just going to try what I can and let it run its course. Is this an acceptable mindset to have, and will I get through school ok? Or am I dead wrong, and instead I should always retain the pre-med mentality for pushing myself to the limit all the time? Now that I think about it, it sounds a lot like impostor syndrome and that I am being unreasonable. Someone with more experience in this please set me straight, I guess...
 
Quite the contrary. I think that not being overly concerned with my grades has helped my mental health quite a lot. If you always work as hard as you can, you're probably going to be miserable.
 
I kind of feel the same way but since I'm looking into somewhat competitive specialties I do get a little bummed that since I'm also near the bottom of my class, that might correlate with me not matching. I do put in the time and effort but I always knew I wasn't really smart, just a discipled hard worker.
 
Being at the bottom med school, is still pretty damn smart......I would not worry about it unless you are looking for a competitive residency.

More important to me than what grade you get is whether or not you can apply the knowledge....I graduated with a girl that had a 4.0 but I rather have plenty of my other classmates than her....she cant apply the knowledge and does not have what it takes when it comes clinical time..

Knowledge is only as good as in much as you can use it properly to its end.
 
printer said:
I am wondering if it's ok to accept the fact that I am going to consistently be at the bottom of my class? This doesn't mean I'm going to just completely throw away everything, I am still going to try to study and learn, but I am preparing to settle for a lot lower, and know the fact that everyone is going to be much smarter than me by miles.

I know it's only my first year and we've only had classes for like a month or so, but I'm starting to already condition myself to understand that I'm going to be at the bottom of the class academically. When the application statistics for our incoming class came out, I saw that I was pretty much below average in all categories, which makes me think I'm going to really struggle just to pass through school. Personally, I know I am really not that bright of a student, and even in college classes I could never be in the top part of any class.

I know all the teachers and deans are always saying you should always reach for your highest potential or whatever, but I feel like I am just going to try what I can and let it run its course. Is this an acceptable mindset to have, and will I get through school ok? Or am I dead wrong, and instead I should always retain the pre-med mentality for pushing myself to the limit all the time? Now that I think about it, it sounds a lot like impostor syndrome and that I am being unreasonable. Someone with more experience in this please set me straight, I guess...
Click to expand...


Work as hard as you can while keeping some semblance of your health and sanity and as long as you are passing your tests I think things will be okay for you.
 
printer said:
I am wondering if it's ok to accept the fact that I am going to consistently be at the bottom of my class? This doesn't mean I'm going to just completely throw away everything, I am still going to try to study and learn, but I am preparing to settle for a lot lower, and know the fact that everyone is going to be much smarter than me by miles.

I know it's only my first year and we've only had classes for like a month or so, but I'm starting to already condition myself to understand that I'm going to be at the bottom of the class academically. When the application statistics for our incoming class came out, I saw that I was pretty much below average in all categories, which makes me think I'm going to really struggle just to pass through school. Personally, I know I am really not that bright of a student, and even in college classes I could never be in the top part of any class.

I know all the teachers and deans are always saying you should always reach for your highest potential or whatever, but I feel like I am just going to try what I can and let it run its course. Is this an acceptable mindset to have, and will I get through school ok? Or am I dead wrong, and instead I should always retain the pre-med mentality for pushing myself to the limit all the time? Now that I think about it, it sounds a lot like impostor syndrome and that I am being unreasonable. Someone with more experience in this please set me straight, I guess...
Click to expand...

You have more medical school in front of you than behind you so chill out. Get out of the "pre-med syndrome" of comparing yourself to others. Everytime you compare yourself to anyone other than yourself, you will come up short. Study to master the material; take care of your career and stop looking around you. In the end, you competition is you. Strive to do your best and learn what you need to be a safe physician.
 
Worrying about class rank is counter productive IMO. Just concentrate on what you need to get done.

As for trying to go 100% the whole time, that's most likely a recipe for burn out. Aim for working hard consistently and leave the balls-to-the-wall studying for test weeks only.
 
You've gone through all the hoops to get you to medical school, and the people who chose you for med school, over a lot of other candidates, did so because they think you will graduate successfully. So you've no need to panic about not being at the top of the class. As long as you understand what you are being taught, and aim for a safe pass in all your exams, you are doing the right things. The time to worry is if you find yourself dropping out of the "safe pass" zone: if you do, you need to sort that out as soon as possible, asking for as much help as you need as soon as possible.

You will find that while being at the top of a class may seem important at the time, a year on from the end of that class and almost no-one, even the ones in that class, will either know or care who was at the top. And from my experience and observation, the ability to be at the top of an academic class has little to do with being a good practitioner - among practitioners, someone's academic history pretty quickly get ignored. It is taken for granted that you have the knowledge implied by your CV, and so are capable of doing the job, and after that it's your day to day results which matter.

If you were dead set on becoming a mediocre practitioner, I would start to worry somewhat.
 
You know what they call the guy who graduates at the very bottom of the class?

Doctor.
 
don't let this translate into slacking off. figure out what you need to do to at least pass. if you have to study your ass off to barely pass then so be it.
 
printer said:
When the application statistics for our incoming class came out, I saw that I was pretty much below average in all categories, which makes me think I'm going to really struggle just to pass through school. Personally, I know I am really not that bright of a student, and even in college classes I could never be in the top part of any class.
Click to expand...

One thing that really helps me is avoiding number comparisons as much as possible. This means never asking your classmates their numerical or letter scores and never sharing yours when asked. If someone asks me how the test went, I simply reply good, ok, harder than expected, etc. When you start comparing numbers with your classmates, either you or your peers will feel inferior when confronted with someone else's higher score. You just need to work hard and let the grades fall wherever they do.

And since when is being in the middle or lower quartiles of medical school considered mediocrity? Look at it in the grand scheme of things.
 
Remember that some day, someone's life will be depending on you.

With that said, 90% of doctors were not in the top 10% of their class. Just don't get comfortable with not knowing things. It's always important to try to learn as much as you can. Do your best, and then go have a beer or five after the test.
 
Thanks a lot for the responses. As stated before, I do love learning and am really willing to work my ass off, so don't get me wrong. But I was just concerned if just dropping the whole competitive aspect of it meant that I wasn't trying hard enough. My real goal is to really try to learn what I can and have a good base to apply my knowledge in the future, and if just a pass means I can be of the same quality, then so be it. =) And of course to have some good times to remember (or not remember if I'm having a really really good time, lol)
 
printer said:
Thanks a lot for the responses. As stated before, I do love learning and am really willing to work my ass off, so don't get me wrong. But I was just concerned if just dropping the whole competitive aspect of it meant that I wasn't trying hard enough. My real goal is to really try to learn what I can and have a good base to apply my knowledge in the future, and if just a pass means I can be of the same quality, then so be it. =) And of course to have some good times to remember (or not remember if I'm having a really really good time, lol)
Click to expand...

Just a little hope...I started off middle to low at the beginning of med school but really hit my stride during 2nd part of first year and the entire 2nd year. I began getting all honors. Give yourself a break and time to just get into med school mode. You will also excel at some classes while not doing as well in others because you may have a personal interest in certian topics. You may just be passing but then rock step 1 because the questions are more legit and are asked in the way your mind works. You really have to just go with the flow and try your best.

I echo what was said above: don't compare yourself to other and just strive for your personal best-just put in all the effort you can. You will be a successful doc if you do this regardless or your rank. The first few months were the hardest in med school by far.
 
Trexate said:
You know what they call the guy who graduates at the very bottom of the class?

Doctor.
Click to expand...

I never liked this mentality. It is usually spewed out by people that advocate just getting by (no offense intended). If you try your best and just get by fine, but it is scary when people use this state of mind as an excuse to be somewhat lazy when they are capable of more. If we were learning how to can delicious peaches in a factory downtown it would not be an issue. It is slightly more important to put forth your best effort when you are playing with the lives of people though.

To the OP, don't sweat it too much yet. Put in the effort and do your best (without going insane). It may be more difficult for some, but it is not impossible.
 
Please don't kid yourself into thinking that how well you memorize the minutiae the first two years throw at you correlates to how good of a doctor you'll be. You absolutely do not need to work to capacity to get down the necessary information.
 
MilkmanAl said:
Please don't kid yourself into thinking that how well you memorize the minutiae the first two years throw at you correlates to how good of a doctor you'll be. You absolutely do not need to work to capacity to get down the necessary information.
Click to expand...

Maybe not, but IMO habituation of the P=MD frame of mind isn't the best road to take.
 
Hoju said:
Maybe not, but IMO habituation of the P=MD frame of mind isn't the best road to take.
Click to expand...

I agree, that mentality isn't a good one. It's especially dangerous for undecided people b/c it can force them into FP even if they are not interested.

OP, just focus on learning the material the best you can and do what you need to do to get through each year. Med school is difficult for everyone and requires a lot of hard work but it can be done.

Also, don't let how you stacked up in college determine how you perform in medical school. Med school is very different than college and it's a new slate. Just work hard, be open to help when you need it, and stay positive and you will be fine.
 
MilkmanAl said:
Please don't kid yourself into thinking that how well you memorize the minutiae the first two years throw at you correlates to how good of a doctor you'll be. You absolutely do not need to work to capacity to get down the necessary information.
Click to expand...

But what exactly is and isn't necessary? You should probably elaborate on your actual position since you have that advisor patch on, and not give the impression that ditching class and studying out of review books is for everyone. I tried your mentality/method last year (1st year) for about a month and got absolutely shat on with classes. If you want to make blanket statements then get rid of the green cross.

Maybe what you say in the quoted is true and maybe most doctors are like that, but I had the opportunity to shadow a doctor the span of my 1st year who knew 80+% of the minutiae from 1st and (what I know of) 2nd year and she was pretty ****ing fantastic at applying everything she'd learned. Sure, not everyone is going to be like her, but I don't think it's wrong to strive to be a doctor like that while staying within my mental and physical limits. If that means being 50% of the doctor she is, I'll take it.

You've spent the whole of your advising period essentially telling people to do enough to get by. It's important to study smart, and perhaps that's what you're telling people, but to continually give the impression that ditching class and doing the least amount possible to pass is okay is ridiculous.
 
I've never encouraged anyone to work only enough to barely squeak by, thanks. For most people, there's a lot of middle ground between busting your ass during every waking moment to get the highest grade possible and being right on the edge of passing. In my opinion, ditching class and studying on your own is for almost everyone. If you learn best from being lectured to, watch the lectures online at your leisure. If you go to a school that's stuck in the dark ages and doesn't have lectures online, I guess you'd have to go to class. Textbooks have never made any sense to me. They present you with more work to acquire the same knowledge. How is that ever helpful?

With resources like Goljan's audio and book and question banks available, texts and class become even more obsolete during second year. You basically need those sources for Step 1 study anyway, so get rocking on them early.

The TL,DR version is that you should find a balance in your life. Working all the time will make you crazy(ier).
 
Textbooks are there to clarify the concepts in more detail. Goljan doesn't even come close.

Goljan is good for reviewing the material that was previously learned from textbooks.
 
Just chill out. I basically had my med school position bought for me. I had OK grades in undergrad that may have translated into a position at a DO school or offshore but never an MD school and certainly not Pitt. I am definitely the odd man out here but hey we do the best we can and hope to escape with a diploma you know.
 
I am something of a scholar in this field and let me tell you, mediocrity is the way to go.
 
You need to stay balanced and mentally healthy. If you are doing your best in classes and are below average that's fine and nothing to be worried about. I would definitely recommend staying comfortably above the *pass* line though; worrying about failing is much more stressful than worrying about being at the top of the class.

Remember though, that while P = MD, and the guy at the bottom of his class will still be a physician, society will hold us all to the same standard, which is surprisingly high, lol. Practicing medicine at a high-level is not exactly easy and you definitely need to take advantage of all the training you can get.

oh yeah and fwiw in the above argument I never bought or opened a single text-book and used review books as primary sources of learning, along with notes. There is no right way for everyone, but that worked for me.
 
Hoju said:
I never liked this mentality. It is usually spewed out by people that advocate just getting by (no offense intended). If you try your best and just get by fine, but it is scary when people use this state of mind as an excuse to be somewhat lazy when they are capable of more. If we were learning how to can delicious peaches in a factory downtown it would not be an issue. It is slightly more important to put forth your best effort when you are playing with the lives of people though.

To the OP, don't sweat it too much yet. Put in the effort and do your best (without going insane). It may be more difficult for some, but it is not impossible.
Click to expand...

Just obtaining an MD is a very hard thing to do its not something that is easily earned. You have to pass numerous exams and do residency.
 
The first step to disappointment is expectations.
 
I'd just focus on learning what you can and fitting it into a larger framework- things will really start to come together and seem a little more clinically relevant by the time you get to second year. If you let yourself get depressed about not doing as well as some people SEEM to be doing, you won't be able to focus. I thought I was really close to the bottom in my class until this year, when I realized how many of my classmates had to repeat first year. Bs are great, and a C or two isn't the end of the world.

Not the same thing as settling for mediocrity, btw.
 
I think if you're dead-set on something that you consider "mediocrity", then I think that's a problem. If I kept finishing at the bottom of my class, yet still maintained an active social life, hobbies, and such, then I think that is far from mediocrity. I guess what I am trying to say, is you chose to prioritize other things in life, and as a consequence, perform at a "mediocre" level in academics, and are willing to accept that, then fine.

If however, you are busting your hump, and still keep landing at the bottom of your class, I don't think you should continue to aim at that level, do something to change it or recognize that this may be a red-flag for you. Perhaps this says something about whether or not you can really benefit from the curriculum.
 
Our Law & Ethics professor (which is also the head of cardiology) had a nice little speach about med. school achivements in the first class. He pulled out one example from his own class in med. school where he had a guy who alwayes failed exam after exam and had a really hard time getting through school. Then one day one of their professors had a heartattack and he was the first to react and make all the right decisions for helping him untill the ambulance arrived.

That guy is now the most renouend neuro surgeon in the city where i study...

My point is; Don't take med. school to seriously, its what comes after that makes you out to be the doctor you will be for the rest of your life.
 
I prescribe to the head down and work hard philosphy where you take breaks when you need them, but just strive to do the best you can do. I avoid the people that are obsessed about asking/talking about grades. Really, after an exam, I just avoid people in general because they tend to highlight what I screwed up or how easy a test was that I really struggled with.

I think it is also important to be aware of what you are saying and realize the times that YOU did well on an exam, someone else may have tanked. You just have to remember how much it stings to hear that, regardless of the whole "pay no attention" philosphy.

So, I guess my answer is yes, it is unhealthy to be dead-set on mediocrity. That seems to imply you are aiming for mediocrity and gives a chance of falling short of even that goal. You work hard and smart for YOU and if you land in the middle of the curve or below then you deal with it and know that you supplied the effort and were surrounded with gifted people.
 
First off, don't discount yourself just because your numbers aren't above average for your class. The admissions office just released the stats for our class, and I was definitely in the top for that, but we just had our first quiz last week, and I'm right about dead center there. But, a lot of what we're doing right now is biochem, and there are a lot of people in my class that had a lot more biochem in undergrad than I did.

Point is that stats really don't matter, and that shouldn't be what you base your studies on. Rather, you should try to reach a goal that you're comfortable with. The grade I got on that quiz was a low B, which I can deal with, but I'd maybe like to do a little better... a solid B instead of a low B, perhaps. That's what I aim for, not to shoot up into the top 10% of my class.
 
MossPoh said:
I prescribe to the head down and work hard philosphy where you take breaks when you need them, but just strive to do the best you can do.
Click to expand...

Wise words. I personally don't shy away from groups after exams only because it's those post-test times I enjoy most in med school, but wise words nonetheless.

vasca said:
I know a lot of peers that made it to the 10% of their class because they cheated and didn't necessarily study all that hard.
Click to expand...

Vasca attends med school in Mexico, iirc. Just saying since he always parallels his experience to that of the US allopathic schools -- it doesn't always work.
 
Work your hardest while maintaining sanity, and learn to be happy with the results of that. No regrets if you gave it your all. There is absolutely no shame in not being the smartest kid in a medschool class. And you will waste a ton of precious time freaking out about your grades that could be used studying or sleeping or enjoying recreational activities. If you are passing and you are working your hardest then be satisfied. If you're not passing try some new study strategies to get more efficient but don't waste time beating yourself up or panicking.
 
There are two types of medical students: the ones who come to medical and are shocked that they aren't the top of the class anymore, and the ones who were so certain that they'd fail medical school that being average or even just passing makes them incrediably happy. It seems like the OP is the later.

As for "learning what is and is not important"---whatever is important you will see by repitition. You will always have to look up homocysteinuria, unless of course you specialize in rare pediatric metabolic disease. But for the rest of us we always have to look it up. Now managing asthma or RSV bronchiolitis...you won't find a GP who doesn't know how to do this. the difference is that you know where to, and DO look up the stuff you're not familiar with.

Finally, realize that medicine is incrediably easy to pass, but a pain in the arse if you want to ace anything. The steps exams passing score is now like 189...still well below the national average which is like 220something.


Interesting how popular this thread is 🙄
 
I don't have any advice to contribute, but I like this quote that seems to apply: "The greater danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it." - Michelangelo
 
jesse120 said:
I don't have any advice to contribute, but I like this quote that seems to apply: "The greater danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it." - Michelangelo
Click to expand...

Nice quote and all, but what's being talked about here cannot be boiled down into a sound bite like that. The term "mediocrity" as applied to a medical student is pretty relative.
 
exi said:
Nice quote and all, but what's being talked about here cannot be boiled down into a sound bite like that. The term "mediocrity" as applied to a medical student is pretty relative.
Click to expand...

No one should be set on mediocrity. People should do their best and learn the material the best they can. Every student has different strengths and weaknesses which can get amplified in different ways for different subjects and settings.

Different material needs to be learned in different ways and getting through medical school requires constant adaptation no matter if you're at the top or the bottom.

I think a distinction between settling for mediocrity and accepting the test results needs to be made. Settling for mediocrity implies a half-hearted effort in learning. Accepting the test results is knowing that it's just a test and the most important thing is learning the material and adaptation to a particular professor/subject style is secondary.

People always say C/P= MD but that severely limits one's residency options.
 
2012mdc said:
I think a distinction between settling for mediocrity and accepting the test results needs to be made. Settling for mediocrity implies a half-hearted effort in learning. Accepting the test results is knowing that it's just a test and the most important thing is learning the material and adaptation to a particular professor/subject style is secondary.

People always say C/P= MD but that severely limits one's residency options.
Click to expand...

Fair enough. But when Step / M3 evals / etc. are much more important than M1/M2 grades, P = MD isn't an entirely horrible thing with which to console yourself if needed.
 
jesse120 said:
I don't have any advice to contribute, but I like this quote that seems to apply: "The greater danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it." - Michelangelo
Click to expand...

I'm not buying it. I'd like to see a peer-reviewed study. In the absence of that, it's nothing more than a turn of phrase and hot air.
 
exi said:
Fair enough. But when Step / M3 evals / etc. are much more important than M1/M2 grades, P = MD isn't an entirely horrible thing with which to console yourself if needed.
Click to expand...

Right, but the type of attitude of P=MD doesn't lend itself to doing well on Step or 3rd year.
 
That's interesting, I seem to be acing my surgery rotation so far and still scored above average on Step 1 despite falling a whole standard deviation from my practice scores. :shrug:
 
great thread..but one thing,, its not always easy to persuade ur mind on spesific thought..may be easy for some people but mostly hard..
 
MilkmanAl said:
That's interesting, I seem to be acing my surgery rotation so far and still scored above average on Step 1 despite falling a whole standard deviation from my practice scores. :shrug:
Click to expand...

I was pretty concerned with grades (while still being one of the biggest partiers in my class and having a gf) and did very well on Step 1, anecdotal evidence doesn't prove much.

I can only speak for my particular school but grades the 1st 2 years correlate strongly with Step performance (IIRC 0.9 linear correlation). I guess it's dependent on how good your school's curriculum is. But some of the people who were content with P=MD are the same ones who failed Step or had to repeat 2nd year

But looking at your earlier posts you seem to agree with what I'm saying. You have been advocating to study smarter rather than harder and not be overly concerned with grades. IMO that's different than settling for mediocrity and the P = MD attitude. I may be wrong but I assume that you did not get straight C's the 1st two years.

MilkmanAl said:
I've never encouraged anyone to work only enough to barely squeak by, thanks.

The P=MD attitude can advocate just enough to get by. I don't think you have that attitude and that's why I said a distinction needs to be made. You can still apply yourself without getting a stress ulcer from constant worrying about grades
Click to expand...
 
But looking at your earlier posts you seem to agree with what I'm saying. You have been advocating to study smarter rather than harder and not be overly concerned with grades.
Click to expand...
Yep, absolutely. I'm on board with everything you said.
 
MilkmanAl said:
Quite the contrary. I think that not being overly concerned with my grades has helped my mental health quite a lot. If you always work as hard as you can, you're probably going to be miserable.
Click to expand...

I agree. Having a P/F curriculum has actually boosted my performance on tests, somehow. Performance anxiety really kills. But I've still been working as hard as I can, in general. It's just not as taxing when you're enjoying it...or pretending to at least 😛
 
J DUB said:
More important to me than what grade you get is whether or not you can apply the knowledge....I graduated with a girl that had a 4.0 but I rather have plenty of my other classmates than her....she cant apply the knowledge and does not have what it takes when it comes clinical time..
Click to expand...

You effectively sum up for us one of the biggest lies in the medical school... that hardworking, motivated people with the top grades lack people skills, clinical skills, etc.

If you fall for this trap, smugly smiling at the back of the classroom during MS1/MS2 playing computer games and listening to Goljan thinking you'll "shine" during rotations because you're "popular" in the class, you're in for some culture shock when 3rd year hits.
 
Keep in mind that on the first block of exams people usually tend to do worse than they normally would since they are adjusting the the learning curve of Medschool.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

narrator
Is it possible to match / be ranked by a program without an interview
Replies
13
Views
2K
narrator
narrator
Hollow Knight
Is M3 supposed to be super hands-on?
Replies
16
Views
2K
WIFEL585
W
Kanye's Psychiatrist
MD Failed a core clerkship clinical rotation and a shelf exam. How much of a red flag is it? Hoping to apply to Psych.
Replies
6
Views
1K
Kanye's Psychiatrist
Kanye's Psychiatrist
Doctoscope
Is it possible (or realistic) to pull $400k in psych?
Replies
12
Views
2K
DOswag
DOswag
Baller27
How hard is it to match into competitive specialties in competitive areas with no ties> (NYC, Cali, Chicago)
Replies
20
Views
2K
RN-2-Medicine
RN-2-Medicine
Top