Is it worth it??

[liquid8r]

Yeah, I should definitely know better. Anyway, I guess the form I signed was a pre-screening form, not a contract. No obligation with that. I just get paranoid throughout this process. Can I pull out of this process at any time as long as I am not sworn in? When did you HPSPers know when it was official? What document is the final contractual document?

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[Perrotfish]

The scroll form does not obligate you to anything, it's just a form that takes several months to process so they want you to sign it as soon as you even show an interest for paperwork reasons. You're only obligated once you've officially signed your service agreement and taken your oath of office. Until then if you decide not to do it, just tell your recruiter that (or ignore him entirely, though that's sorta rude) and the process ends.

Also, if you still are considering joining, your recruiter will probably recommend you go through MEPS. That's another huge buracratic thing you want to go through as soon as possible to avoid screw ups. Basically I'm saying if you have any interest in doing this, do everything BUT sign the service agreement as soon as possible and it will be less of a pain in the @$$ down the line if you do decide to join.

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[liquid8r]

Thanks Perrotfish!

 

[a1qwerty55]

Holy f5ck. I am nervous now. Um....after reading this forum I don't think I want to do the HPSP. I feel like I am going through this process blindly. I just want to weigh all my options before school.

There really isn't any reason to not have all the info you need to make a good decision. There is plenty on this site, but realize that by it's very nature, the information will be slanted against military medicine. The reality is that the more disgruntled you are, the more energy you have to spend on a medical student website forum. Now that being said, most of the disgruntled posters have valid experiences/points but I would argue that these experiences are not the norm. Others will vehemently disagree with me on this.

The key things you need to understand are.

1. Each service is dramatically different, and many preconceptions people have, i.e. that the AF is more civil or "cushy" are often wrong. In a paradox the Army is much less hung up on rank and title than the Navy or AF. Each service has positives and negatives. You just need to figure out which gels with your goals.

2. There is no free lunch - The military is going to pay for school, give you a signing bonus and pay you a stipend. In return, you are expected to pay back through service and by its very nature, you will give up some autonomy. You need to be prepared to deploy at least once for 6-12 months. You need to be prepared to have residency delayed - less frequent in the Army but still happens. That being said, the military is generally not intent on "screwing" anyone but the needs of the service trump the needs of the individual so some people will end up drawing the short straw.

3. Your experience is what you make it. Likeable people who perform well generally get better treatment than lazy or negative people, true in the military and civilian life as well. Deployments can actually be fun (I hesitate to use the word fun here) and a time for growth/personal reflection, and a time to build lifelong relationships and memories. Conversely, they can be a trigger for depression, and bitterness, much of this depends on your outlook at the start and expectations.

4. There is no perfect knowledge - there is no way to be 100% sure any decison is the right one, you have to make your best guess and deal with the outcomes eitherway.

5. Lastly, 4-5 years over the course of a career is actually a drop in the bucket. You will have plenty of time to do whatever you want personally and professionally even if you serve out your time as a GMO and do residency afterwards. While not optimal it isn't the end of the world.

Good luck with whatever you choose.

 

[Okkaoboy]

Im considering the same thing honestly. I've noticed alot of people are negative about it, but of all the institutions in the world, the army needs doctors. If you go into the army just for money to begin with Im sure you'll enentually find that your actually making a difference and saving peoples lives. Sure odds are youll lose money, but you wont have to worry about anything as your trying to sort your life out. If Im not mistaken, they're not likely to tax you if you're in the middle of nowhere, and you wont need to be conserned about price of living. As for the specialty... yeah that sucks. But Im considering this because... it seems like a good option. You'll actually do something worthwhile (saving peoples lives) and at the same time make some powerful memories and some experiances that no one can deny. My friends dad was in the Navy as a surgeon and he had a great time and ended up playing on their soccer team in the caribean... so its not always bad.

Also, no offence to any of you, but I was always of the opinion that one should go into medicine because they care, not because of the great lifestyle. They should enter because they feel the need to help save peoples lives not because they make 6 digits a year. I mean why else would people do doctors without borders? Once again no offence to anyone, but that was my opion and still is and why I want to go into medicine or some field where I can help. Debt free or naught, bad lifestyle or good.

(Dont attack me on my grammer, lol Im not putting much effort into the proper grammer as the argument itself)

Good luck on your decision

 

[AF M4]

There really isn't any reason to not have all the info you need to make a good decision. There is plenty on this site, but realize that by it's very nature, the information will be slanted against military medicine. The reality is that the more disgruntled you are, the more energy you have to spend on a medical student website forum. Now that being said, most of the disgruntled posters have valid experiences/points but I would argue that these experiences are not the norm. Others will vehemently disagree with me on this.

The key things you need to understand are.

1. Each service is dramatically different, and many preconceptions people have, i.e. that the AF is more civil or "cushy" are often wrong. In a paradox the Army is much less hung up on rank and title than the Navy or AF. Each service has positives and negatives. You just need to figure out which gels with your goals.

2. There is no free lunch - The military is going to pay for school, give you a signing bonus and pay you a stipend. In return, you are expected to pay back through service and by its very nature, you will give up some autonomy. You need to be prepared to deploy at least once for 6-12 months. You need to be prepared to have residency delayed - less frequent in the Army but still happens. That being said, the military is generally not intent on "screwing" anyone but the needs of the service trump the needs of the individual so some people will end up drawing the short straw.

3. Your experience is what you make it. Likeable people who perform well generally get better treatment than lazy or negative people, true in the military and civilian life as well. Deployments can actually be fun (I hesitate to use the word fun here) and a time for growth/personal reflection, and a time to build lifelong relationships and memories. Conversely, they can be a trigger for depression, and bitterness, much of this depends on your outlook at the start and expectations.

4. There is no perfect knowledge - there is no way to be 100% sure any decison is the right one, you have to make your best guess and deal with the outcomes eitherway.

5. Lastly, 4-5 years over the course of a career is actually a drop in the bucket. You will have plenty of time to do whatever you want personally and professionally even if you serve out your time as a GMO and do residency afterwards. While not optimal it isn't the end of the world.

Good luck with whatever you choose.

I'm not going to argue with much here except point 5 - being interrupted in your training for several years is not just a drop in the bucket, and getting back into a residency may be more difficult than you suspect.

What I will say to the folks here who are pre-med or looking at HPSP in their first year of medical school is that you don't yet know what you don't know. And it's very very risky to make a HUGE life decision when you don't have nearly the amount of information that you need. Are you even sure that you want to be a doctor? I mean, people drop out of medical school all of the time, and these are bright, motivated people who for whatever reason found out that it wasn't for them once they really started to experience what the medical field can entail.

There's nothing wrong with that, and all of them that I know are very happy in their new fields. But they wouldn't be as happy if they were stuck doing what they didn't want to because they signed a contract locking them in. And that's what you're risking doing.

I'm not saying that you shouldn't join the military as a physician. I'm saying that you shouldn't join the military as a physician RIGHT NOW. Look into the FAP program. Go to medical school first and do a residency, then make your choice. Don't lock yourself in before you know what you're locking yourself into.

And yes, I wish I could say all this to a younger, more trusting and naive version of myself.

Good luck.

 

[Mirror Form]

Im considering the same thing honestly. I've noticed alot of people are negative about it, but of all the institutions in the world, the army needs doctors. If you go into the army just for money to begin with Im sure you'll enentually find that your actually making a difference and saving peoples lives. Sure odds are youll lose money, but you wont have to worry about anything as your trying to sort your life out. If Im not mistaken, they're not likely to tax you if you're in the middle of nowhere, and you wont need to be conserned about price of living. As for the specialty... yeah that sucks. But Im considering this because... it seems like a good option. You'll actually do something worthwhile (saving peoples lives) and at the same time make some powerful memories and some experiances that no one can deny. My friends dad was in the Navy as a surgeon and he had a great time and ended up playing on their soccer team in the caribean... so its not always bad.

Also, no offence to any of you, but I was always of the opinion that one should go into medicine because they care, not because of the great lifestyle. They should enter because they feel the need to help save peoples lives not because they make 6 digits a year. I mean why else would people do doctors without borders? Once again no offence to anyone, but that was my opion and still is and why I want to go into medicine or some field where I can help. Debt free or naught, bad lifestyle or good.

(Dont attack me on my grammer, lol Im not putting much effort into the proper grammer as the argument itself)

Good luck on your decision

Great words of wisdom

Anyway, if you think people in military medicine are only complaining about "lifestyle" issues then you've completely missed the point of most threads. I'm not going to re-hash them all right now, but I'd recomend you go back and re-read the posts.

 

[Mirror Form]

There really isn't any reason to not have all the info you need to make a good decision. There is plenty on this site, but realize that by it's very nature, the information will be slanted against military medicine. The reality is that the more disgruntled you are, the more energy you have to spend on a medical student website forum.

True, but military medicine is a very small world, and the vast majority of military physicians aren't going to be posting on a site like this regardless of how they feel about their jobs. Why is this site so active?

1. Each service is dramatically different, and many preconceptions people have, i.e. that the AF is more civil or "cushy" are often wrong. In a paradox the Army is much less hung up on rank and title than the Navy or AF. Each service has positives and negatives. You just need to figure out which gels with your goals.

No argument there.

2. There is no free lunch - The military is going to pay for school, give you a signing bonus and pay you a stipend. In return, you are expected to pay back through service and by its very nature, you will give up some autonomy. You need to be prepared to deploy at least once for 6-12 months. You need to be prepared to have residency delayed - less frequent in the Army but still happens. That being said, the military is generally not intent on "screwing" anyone but the needs of the service trump the needs of the individual so some people will end up drawing the short straw.

Keep in mind that medicine is a very long and hard career path. Do you want to risk being the guy who draws the short straw? And even if you dodge the bullet, the stress of knowing you could be screwed at any second will always be hanging over your head. That's why you should only join if you want to be in the military, peroid.

3. Your experience is what you make it. Likeable people who perform well generally get better treatment than lazy or negative people, true in the military and civilian life as well. Deployments can actually be fun (I hesitate to use the word fun here) and a time for growth/personal reflection, and a time to build lifelong relationships and memories. Conversely, they can be a trigger for depression, and bitterness, much of this depends on your outlook at the start and expectations.

Okay here we go:
1. Some things you cannot and should not have a positive attitude about. For example, if you spend 10 grueling years of training to become a surgeon, but then get stationed somewhere that has a very small caseload so that your skills atrophy, are you supposed to say that's okay and be "positive?" Especially if your command prevents you from moonlighting to maintain your skills because they feel "that would take away from your priority to treat active duty." Are you going to tell your future patients to be positive after their surgeries don't go well b/c your skills atrophied?

2. Well, in military medicine "perform well" means play nice in the sandbox and make sure your "metrics" look good. As long as you avoid any major sentinal events it has nothing to do with being a good doctor or surgeon. Similarly, many good doctors get frustrted b/c the hospital command sometimes only cares about making metrics look good, regardless of how meaningless the "important metric of the day" actually is.

4. There is no perfect knowledge - there is no way to be 100% sure any decison is the right one, you have to make your best guess and deal with the outcomes eitherway.

Well, you can always join the military later via the FAP program or even as an attending if you want.

5. Lastly, 4-5 years over the course of a career is actually a drop in the bucket. You will have plenty of time to do whatever you want personally and professionally even if you serve out your time as a GMO and do residency afterwards. While not optimal it isn't the end of the world.

If you sign up for HPSP the military is going to own you for at least the next 11 to 12 years (assuming you don't do a four year gmo tour and then get out, which most people would not recomend), and possibly much much longer if you do a long residency w/ a gmo tour first.

 

[colbgw02]

2. Well, in military medicine "perform well" means play nice in the sandbox and make sure your "metrics" look good. As long as you avoid any major sentinal events it has nothing to do with being a good doctor or surgeon. Similarly, many good doctors get frustrted b/c the hospital command sometimes only cares about making metrics look good, regardless of how meaningless the "important metric of the day" actually is.

This part is so spot on. And it's depressing to think that, as a resident, I'm only exposed to a fraction of this BS. So much of it is perception.