Is it worth paying a 70k premium to go to a school with its own hospital?

[TheWardIsNotEnough]

I've been accepted to 2 lower tier schools with similar match lists, Tulane, which has its own hospital with basically every residency program you could think of, and Rosalind Franklin, which doesn't have an affiliated hospital and no clinical departments at all.

Match lists wise, they seem to be identical, but between the lower tuition and the merit scholarship I was offered, I'd end up paying 60k more in tuition over 4 years plus whatever interest accumulated on that 60k in order to attend Tulane. So let's say 70k overall.

If going solely by match lists and cost, Rosalind Franklin seems to be the hands down winner. But I just feel uncertain about the lack of a hospital and any home programs. The two schools may have the same number of people matching ortho, but how the heck do I know if the students from RFUMS had to jump through a million more hoops to get those spots, or even if they only managed it via personal connections.

So in general, would you guys say having a home hospital is a big enough deal to go in debt for 320k instead of 250k? If it helps, if I had to make a decision on specialty today I'd say it would be a tossup between EM and Ortho.

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[mspeedwagon]

I've had many friends attend both schools and they were equally successful. I don't think having a home hospital is all that helpful. You're going to focus on basics sciences in the first two years, and come rotations the caliber of the teaching is likely more important than whether or not the school has a home hospital program. The only real advantage is, if come time of residency, you really, really want to match at that hospital you may have a better shot. My gf went to an MD school with a home program and quite a few matched there, though she wanted to get away after doing all her rotations there. I wouldn't pay extra for a home hospital.

 

[CopaceticOne]

Do you want to live in New Orleans or Chicago? Which school was the better fit? Forget the directly associated hospital thing in this case. Pretty sure answering my first questions will let you know which option is best for you.

 

[Slack3r]

Having affiliated residency programs is nice for getting letters and early exposure. Not sure it's worth the extra money though for two similarly ranked schools.

 

[TheWardIsNotEnough]

Believe it or not I'm pretty indifferent on the location. I prefer Chicago to NO, but since RFUMS is like 1.5 hours away from Chicago whereas Tulane is smack in the middle of NO that kind of cancels out. But it really is not a major factor for me.

I'm also not that enthusiastic about staying in NO for residency. I guess my idea about having a home hospital with all the different specialties is that it would give you a huge advantage when applying to other programs, because you'd have institutionalized backing behind your application and hopefully faculty from your home Ortho department (or whatever) working on your behalf and contacting people at programs you're applying to. But again, I don't know exactly how that works or how big of a deal that is, hence my uncertainty over whether it's worth spending 70k on.

 

[mspeedwagon]

The fact that the hospital is affiliated with your med school isn't going to matter. The caliber of your recommendations along with your Step scores will. Wherever you do rotations, you'll want to get the best recommendations you can. It's not worth the 70k since this is unlikely to have any effect.

I guess my idea about having a home hospital with all the different specialties is that it would give you a huge advantage when applying to other programs, because you'd have institutionalized backing behind your application and hopefully faculty from your home Ortho department (or whatever) working on your behalf and contacting people at programs you're applying to. But again, I don't know exactly how that works or how big of a deal that is, hence my uncertainty over whether it's worth spending 70k on.

 

[Wordead]

If you want to do a surgical subspecialty I'd pay for the difference. But I can see the argument either way. You can match from any school if you put in the effort but having time to build up a rapport with chairman/residency director is helpful.

I've heard not great things about RF but have no firsthand experience.

 

[tantacles]

I've been accepted to 2 lower tier schools with similar match lists, Tulane, which has its own hospital with basically every residency program you could think of, and Rosalind Franklin, which doesn't have an affiliated hospital and no clinical departments at all.

Match lists wise, they seem to be identical, but between the lower tuition and the merit scholarship I was offered, I'd end up paying 60k more in tuition over 4 years plus whatever interest accumulated on that 60k in order to attend Tulane. So let's say 70k overall.

If going solely by match lists and cost, Rosalind Franklin seems to be the hands down winner. But I just feel uncertain about the lack of a hospital and any home programs. The two schools may have the same number of people matching ortho, but how the heck do I know if the students from RFUMS had to jump through a million more hoops to get those spots, or even if they only managed it via personal connections.

So in general, would you guys say having a home hospital is a big enough deal to go in debt for 320k instead of 250k? If it helps, if I had to make a decision on specialty today I'd say it would be a tossup between EM and Ortho.

As an RFU student who just graduated, I can tell you a little more about those ortho matches. All of them were stellar students, most AOA if I remember correctly. They had fantastic step 1 scores, and they all had research to back up their interests. As far as I know, personal connections did not play a big part in any of their matches, though at least two of them did rotations at big name places that they set up themselves.

If I were you, I'd grab a repayment calculator and look at what those costs look like when you're repaying them. If you defer through residency, they're going up by around 20-30%, so you're looking at more like 400 vs. 300k (I'm coming out of RFU with ~15k in scholarships awarded and my debt is around $300,000). When you repay, you're paying off interest every month so it ends up being a lot more than you think.

Also, I mentioned this to another student in a similar situation, but remember that you don't know how you're going to perform in medical school. You might have a crappy step 1 or clinicals, and the lower your debt, the less financial pressure there will be to go into a high-paying specialty. Same goes for if you just all of a sudden realize you love pediatrics, neurology, or family medicine, none of which are usually huge money-makers. Less debt means you can do what you love more easily without worrying about the money.

That being said, which city do you like more? Are you ok living in north Chicago (WHICH IS NOT CHICAGO!) for two years? I liked it because there was nothing to do and it made it easier to buckle down and study, but you might prefer to be in NOLA for all four years. That fits into the equation too!

Best of luck, and if you decide on RFUMS, pop over a PM and we'll talk.




Large dogs

 

[Mansamusa]

In my biased opinion, Tulane seems to be a solid mid-tier that is only considered low-tier on SDN because the low average gpa and because they do not participate in US News Rankings. I work in one of the NYC powerhouse academic centers that has many "top 10" residency programs, and I've been talking to PDs and attendings whenever I get the chance. They all said that Tulane is fantastic. I was choosing b/w Tulane's MD and UMiami's MD/MPH program and I was worried that choosing Tulane would lose me "prestige points" that may help in matching and they all replied definitely not. I asked one PD about choosing NYMC since it will save $20-30K, and she said that Tulane's reputation is well worth the $30K + interest unless I'm planning on getting above the 90th percentile on Step 1 (she also said that Tulane would be worth the $60K over Downstate, but I disagree with that and will choose Downstate if I get off the waitlist). Of course, this is only one academic center.

Tulane also shows a lot of love for its grads in its surgical subspecialty programs (and their Tulane-Ochsner neurosurg program is adding another spot). 2 or 3 out of the 3 spots in Tulane's ortho program are Tulane grads each year. Then NOLA has an ortho residency at LSU and one at Ochsner that you can network with.

That being said, $70K is a huge difference and you could very easily end up not liking surgery. I think it is a big risk to take and I don't know if I would be willing to bet the money on 1) doing well enough that I would be competitive for surgical subs and 2) that I will still want to match a surgical sub by the end of med school

(I also wouldn't say their match lists are similar. People on here have said comparing IM matches is the best way to compare school quality. Tulane's IM match this year wasn't as good as last year's but Tulane sends multiple people, multiple years to the tippy top BGH, UCSF, and John's Hopkins main IM programs and they are well represented at BID, the NYPs, NYU, Stanford, etc. You don't need to go to a program like that to have a fantastic career of course and for most people saving money is more important than being in that tier of residency)

 

[lmn]

Personally I dont know how it is like not having your own school hospital so I can't speak to that, but don't use the match lists as evidence on whether it makes a difference, there is a lot more factors that go into a match list that makes it pretty much impossible to interpret from a simple list. You'll be able to match into both of your interested specialties from those schools, your board scores, rotations, aways, and research is going to make or break your pathway, not the school.

 

[Promethean]

Others have said it, but if having their own captive hospital is the only deciding factor, it definitely isn't worth the extra money just for that.

Both are good schools. Both will give you lots of opportunities. $70k less debt is nothing to sneeze at. I know we are talking about such outrageous sums that a few tens of thousands more or less seems like less of a big deal than it is... but given that much more interest will accrue on it by the time it is paid off, the 60-70k you pay extra now may look a lot more like 2-3 times that by the time it is all paid off, especially if you spread the payments out over many years. That represents more time being forced to consider your debt any time you want to look for a new job, move to a new place, take some time off, etc. The cheaper you can do this now, the more freedom you get to have in your future. That is worth a lot more than having a hospital you won't see a lot of, especially during the first couple of years.

 

[mspeedwagon]

Many of my friends that went to Tulane for med school wouldn't agree with this assessment so it's one person's bias (Tulane vs. U-Miami). That said, if Tulane is a better fit school, go there. But, I doubt many folks would give you huge prestige points for Tulane over Miami (unless they have some inherent favorable bias toward the school). Having been an in-state NY resident, I would have gone to any SUNY over either school if these were my choices.

In my biased opinion, Tulane seems to be a solid mid-tier that is only considered low-tier on SDN because the low average gpa and because they do not participate in US News Rankings. I work in one of the NYC powerhouse academic centers that has many "top 10" residency programs, and I've been talking to PDs and attendings whenever I get the chance. They all said that Tulane is fantastic. I was choosing b/w Tulane's MD and UMiami's MD/MPH program and I was worried that choosing Tulane would lose me "prestige points" that may help in matching and they all replied definitely not. I asked one PD about choosing NYMC since it will save $20-30K, and she said that Tulane's reputation is well worth the $30K + interest unless I'm planning on getting above the 90th percentile on Step 1

 

[Mansamusa]

Many of my friends that went to Tulane for med school wouldn't agree with this assessment so it's one person's bias (Tulane vs. U-Miami). That said, if Tulane is a better fit school, go there. But, I doubt many folks would give you huge prestige points for Tulane over Miami (unless they have some inherent favorable bias toward the school). Having been an in-state NY resident, I would have gone to any SUNY over either school if these were my choices.

I wasn't talking about getting points over Miami. I was talking about losing prestige points by choosing Tulane over Miami and the response was that neither would be seen over the other in terms of prestige (from multiple people and depts I have spoken to). Whereas Tulane and Miami would get points over schools like NYMC in terms of prestige (and that the lesser prestige points could be made up for by getting above the 90th percentile on Step)

I was actually in a similar position as OP because the MD/MPH program at Miami does clinical rotations at the Palm Beach regional campus whose home hospital is a community hospital (JFK Medical Center), so they have to put in extra effort to try to network with the Jackson Memorial residencies and do a lot of juggling if they want to match in a competitive specialty since they don't exactly have home programs in everything. The difference between the 2 schools only came out to $30K. Tulane would give me a better shot at a competitive surgical specialty while sacrificing little to no prestige, so i was willing to take that cost.

Tulane and CMS are, from my research, different tiers, so if getting to the most prestigious academic residency is something that is very important to the OP, I think it would be easier to do from Tulane. But, for most people's goals, it makes more sense to save the money when the difference is as large as $70K.

Tl;dr: In OP's situation, I would probably choose CMS because the cost difference is so large. But from the professionals I have spoken to and looking at match lists, I don't think Tulane and CMS are the same tier.

But rereading OP's post, when he was saying "similar match lists" he was going by # of people who matched into each specialty rather than the tier of residency, so what I've been saying is irrelevant to the OP and he should choose CMS since it is possible to get to any specialty from CMS

 

[mspeedwagon]

I see what you are saying now with the more detailed explanation and agree. Thanks for the clarification.

I wasn't talking about getting points over Miami. I was talking about losing prestige points by choosing Tulane over Miami and the response was that neither would be seen over the other in terms of prestige (from multiple people and depts I have spoken to). Whereas Tulane and Miami would get points over schools like NYMC in terms of prestige (and that the lesser prestige points could be made up for by getting above the 90th percentile on Step)

I was actually in a similar position as OP because the MD/MPH program at Miami does clinical rotations at the Palm Beach regional campus whose home hospital is a community hospital (JFK Medical Center), so they have to put in extra effort to try to network with the Jackson Memorial residencies and do a lot of juggling if they want to match in a competitive specialty since they don't exactly have home programs in everything. The difference between the 2 schools only came out to $30K. Tulane would give me a better shot at a competitive surgical specialty while sacrificing little to no prestige, so i was willing to take that cost.

Tulane and CMS are, from my research, different tiers, so if getting to the most prestigious academic residency is something that is very important to the OP, I think it would be easier to do from Tulane. But, for most people's goals, it makes more sense to save the money when the difference is as large as $70K.

Tl;dr: In OP's situation, I would probably choose CMS because the cost difference is so large. But from the professionals I have spoken to and looking at match lists, I don't think Tulane and CMS are the same tier.

But rereading OP's post, when he was saying "similar match lists" he was going by # of people who matched into each specialty rather than the tier of residency, so what I've been saying is irrelevant to the OP and he should choose CMS since it is possible to get to any specialty from CMS

 

[TheWardIsNotEnough]

Thanks for the responses guys. It seems that the prevailing wisdom is that the cost savings probably outweigh the hospital/prestige factor. I'll agree that I haven't really taken a magnifying glass to the match lists in the sense of trying to figure out which school places people to more "prestigious" residency programs. My main concern is matching to my desired specialty rather than matching to the top programs within that specialty, within reason of course. I don't need to do residency at an East Coast Ivy League institution but at the same time don't want to be pushed to some podunk community program with 60% IMGs, either.

In truth I was leaning towards "taking the money" so in that sense I'm happy that most opinions downplay the importance of school choice. I'm sure I'll be losing something by going to the "worse" school but at this point this loss is abstract whereas the money is very tangible. But I'll still be agonizing over this decision until Monday comes and forces my hand lol.

 

[TheWardIsNotEnough]

The fact that the hospital is affiliated with your med school isn't going to matter. The caliber of your recommendations along with your Step scores will. Wherever you do rotations, you'll want to get the best recommendations you can. It's not worth the 70k since this is unlikely to have any effect.

In general, does rotating at a hospital that's not affiliated with your school make it harder to get a recommendation from that rotation, and if so, to what degree?

 

[lmn]

Thanks for the responses guys. It seems that the prevailing wisdom is that the cost savings probably outweigh the hospital/prestige factor. I'll agree that I haven't really taken a magnifying glass to the match lists in the sense of trying to figure out which school places people to more "prestigious" residency programs. My main concern is matching to my desired specialty rather than matching to the top programs within that specialty, within reason of course. I don't need to do residency at an East Coast Ivy League institution but at the same time don't want to be pushed to some podunk community program with 60% IMGs, either.

In truth I was leaning towards "taking the money" so in that sense I'm happy that most opinions downplay the importance of school choice. I'm sure I'll be losing something by going to the "worse" school but at this point this loss is abstract whereas the money is very tangible. But I'll still be agonizing over this decision until Monday comes and forces my hand lol.

You can definitely get into a good residency in any specialty from a US MD program. Save yourself 70k.

 

[Mansamusa]

Thanks for the responses guys. It seems that the prevailing wisdom is that the cost savings probably outweigh the hospital/prestige factor. I'll agree that I haven't really taken a magnifying glass to the match lists in the sense of trying to figure out which school places people to more "prestigious" residency programs. My main concern is matching to my desired specialty rather than matching to the top programs within that specialty, within reason of course. I don't need to do residency at an East Coast Ivy League institution but at the same time don't want to be pushed to some podunk community program with 60% IMGs, either.

In truth I was leaning towards "taking the money" so in that sense I'm happy that most opinions downplay the importance of school choice. I'm sure I'll be losing something by going to the "worse" school but at this point this loss is abstract whereas the money is very tangible. But I'll still be agonizing over this decision until Monday comes and forces my hand lol.

There is an ortho club at CMS. Within the first few weeks of starting school, go to them and they will advise you on what to do, where to do research, which surgeons you should contact. Obviously people match ortho from CMS every year (and they aren't matching community programs), so just follow their path. I think not having a designated hospital will add some obstacles that will suck in the moment, but then you'll have a nice $100K+ savings that you could use for a down payment on a house while Tulane students are going "just 2 more years of living like a resident and I'm free."

 

[mspeedwagon]

In my opinion, no. Your school is going to have an interest club and advisers within the specialty. The hospital's that have students that rotate from that particular school, will be familiar with them. And, from what I gather, during rotations you are mostly judged on your work ethic. As long as you work hard and do well, your recommendations will be glowing, whether or not the hospital is affiliated. The only time I believe having an affiliated hospital makes a big difference, if your hopes and dreams are to match for residency at that specific hospital, otherwise it's a non-factor.

In general, does rotating at a hospital that's not affiliated with your school make it harder to get a recommendation from that rotation, and if so, to what degree?

 

[lmn]

There is an ortho club at CMS. Within the first few weeks of starting school, go to them and they will advise you on what to do, where to do research, which surgeons you should contact. Obviously people match ortho from CMS every year (and they aren't matching community programs), so just follow their path. I think not having a designated hospital will add some obstacles that will suck in the moment, but then you'll have a nice $100K+ savings that you could use for a down payment on a house while Tulane students are going "just 2 more years of living like a resident and I'm free."

Great way to look like the biggest gunner in the world... OP should just go to school and focus on passing classes/doing well first, then they can start shadowing more and see if that's something they might actually want to do. Then after they've got into a good rhythm and are comfortably passing class they can look at research etc.

 

[Mansamusa]

Great way to look like the biggest gunner in the world... OP should just go to school and focus on passing classes/doing well first, then they can start shadowing more and see if that's something they might actually want to do. Then after they've got into a good rhythm and are comfortably passing class they can look at research etc.

Well, if the OP is worried about the trade off of the money for not having a hospital, this would be a way to understand the best approach for him to take to overcome that disadvantage. And if you look at ortho/neuro surg/other competitive surgical field forums, they all recommend getting into research during your 1st yr. Plus, going to the ortho club will let him know who to shadow and how to get in touch with surgeons since CMS' affiliated hospitals are 1 1/2 hours away.

 

[longtimelurker2015]

Great way to look like the biggest gunner in the world... OP should just go to school and focus on passing classes/doing well first, then they can start shadowing more and see if that's something they might actually want to do. Then after they've got into a good rhythm and are comfortably passing class they can look at research etc.

Re: the bolded part above, I think your comment is a bit off-base, but I realize you may not have meant it that way.

Showing interest and attending Interest Group meetings early is not a gunner behavior in and of itself. The way one would comport themselves around their classmates however may be (overeagerness can turn off people).

All my friends who have recently matched to highly competitive specialties who came from a variety of different med schools, established, "low-ranked" or new med schools, felt what was key to their success was that they knew what they wanted to pursue from day one and took steps to realize those goals by hitting the ground running as soon as they started med school by (1) studying hard; (2) joining the interest group of the specialty they were interested in, which allowed them to develop relationships, mentorships and get going with taking the steps to pursue research, etc., relevant to their field of interest.

Not to say you can't or won't change your mind 20 times thru med school, and you can also match into a highly competitive field if you decide on it after taking STEP 1, rather than know from day one, but I just reject the notion that joining an interest group from day 1 is gunner behavior, and in general, though it's not an obligation, I feel like in med school and in life, knowing what you want and taking steps to pursue it can make you avoid lots of headaches, regret, and anxiety in the long term (and if you know what you want to accomplish, then you can get it done and take those steps from any US med school)

Okay, sorry, this is a bit off-topic and maybe not directly applicable to OP's initial question, but I just made the choice too between Tulane and another school that is not nearly as "prestigious" or "highly ranked" as Tulane, and it also came down to price and the School I will be matriculating as being more affordable, and I couldn't be happier with my decision.

 

[lmn]

Re: the bolded part above, I think your comment is a bit off-base, but I realize you may not have meant it that way.

Showing interest and attending Interest Group meetings early is not a gunner behavior in and of itself. The way one would comport themselves around their classmates however may be (overeagerness can turn off people).

All my friends who have recently matched to highly competitive specialties who came from a variety of different med schools, established, "low-ranked" or new med schools, felt what was key to their success was that they knew what they wanted to pursue from day one and took steps to realize those goals by hitting the ground running as soon as they started med school by (1) studying hard; (2) joining the interest group of the specialty they were interested in, which allowed them to develop relationships, mentorships and get going with taking the steps to pursue research, etc., relevant to their field of interest.

Not to say you can't or won't change your mind 20 times thru med school, and you can also match into a highly competitive field if you decide on it after taking STEP 1, rather than know from day one, but I just reject the notion that joining an interest group from day 1 is gunner behavior, and in general, though it's not an obligation, I feel like in med school and in life, knowing what you want and taking steps to pursue it can make you avoid lots of headaches, regret, and anxiety in the long term (and if you know what you want to accomplish, then you can get it done and take those steps from any US med school)

Okay, sorry, this is a bit off-topic and maybe not directly applicable to OP's initial question, but I just made the choice too between Tulane and another school that is not nearly as "prestigious" or "highly ranked" as Tulane, and it also came down to price and the School I will be matriculating as being more affordable, and I couldn't be happier with my decision.

There is a big difference from being proactive and setting yourself up for success and taking it too far. Imo, recommend the OP go to them within the 1st few weeks of school and ask about research is way too much, too fast, and people will definitely take notice and you might gain some really unwanted attention and make an impression that you won't want to have following you. Plus it doesn't matter what kind of research/shadowing they do if they too quickly start worrying about residency before they even make sure they can adjust to medical school's work load. That's why I suggested getting settled in classes first and making sure you're a strong student. It isn't going to do you any benefits if you end up failing a class, or if you get to step 1 during your second year and don't know the basics b/c you were too busy trying to jump straight into research. Go to school, do well, and after a month or two, start shadowing different specialties and seeing what you like/dislike. Then get involved in research, you will have plenty of time to get good research done even though you aren't starting it within the first few weeks of med school.

You guys will figure this out as you go through med school, tons of m1's come in and make the mistake of automatically trying to resume prep for residency and that's something you don't need to do, and something that quite often gets people in too deep too quickly. (Seriously, within your first few months you'll hear how everyone and their moms want to go into Ortho/insert some other competitive surgical subspecialty and how they are going to do X,Y,etc). Talk to m3/m4's that are going into the specialties you are interested in, I bet you the vast majority of them didn't start research within the first few weeks of med school and still matched/will match into great programs.

 

[Mansamusa]

There is a big difference from being proactive and setting yourself up for success and taking it too far. Imo, recommend the OP go to them within the 1st few weeks of school and ask about research is way too much, too fast, and people will definitely take notice and you might gain some really unwanted attention and make an impression that you won't want to have following you. Plus it doesn't matter what kind of research/shadowing they do if they too quickly start worrying about residency before they even make sure they can adjust to medical school's work load. That's why I suggested getting settled in classes first and making sure you're a strong student. It isn't going to do you any benefits if you end up failing a class, or if you get to step 1 during your second year and don't know the basics b/c you were too busy trying to jump straight into research. Go to school, do well, and after a month or two, start shadowing different specialties and seeing what you like/dislike. Then get involved in research, you will have plenty of time to get good research done even though you aren't starting it within the first few weeks of med school.

You guys will figure this out as you go through med school, tons of m1's come in and make the mistake of automatically trying to resume prep for residency and that's something you don't need to do, and something that quite often gets people in too deep too quickly. (Seriously, within your first few months you'll hear how everyone and their moms want to go into Ortho/insert some other competitive surgical subspecialty and how they are going to do X,Y,etc). Talk to m3/m4's that are going into the specialties you are interested in, I bet you the vast majority of them didn't start research within the first few weeks of med school and still matched/will match into great programs.

Club fairs are normally within the first few weeks of school, so I don't think it would be weird for someone to go to a club meeting right away. And at the first club meeting, the students would probably give advice on researching and shadowing so OP won't even need to ask.

And I know at Tulane there is a research program. There is an info meeting in August and you contact PIs throughout September. You submit an app and statement of purpose in October. Then you start in the lab by January. If you choose the "front-loaded" structure for the program, you commit to 1 half day in the lab per week throughout 1st and 2nd yr and then full time throughout the summer, produce a 10-25pg thesis, brush it up during 3rd yr, and present at research forum 4th yr. There was also a 2nd yr med student who came into my current lab all throughout his 2nd yr and I've talked to him about research and I don't think it's that uncommon to start 1st yr if you already have a research background

 

[longtimelurker2015]

There is a big difference from being proactive and setting yourself up for success and taking it too far. Imo, recommend the OP go to them within the 1st few weeks of school and ask about research is way too much, too fast, and people will definitely take notice and you might gain some really unwanted attention and make an impression that you won't want to have following you. Plus it doesn't matter what kind of research/shadowing they do if they too quickly start worrying about residency before they even make sure they can adjust to medical school's work load. That's why I suggested getting settled in classes first and making sure you're a strong student. It isn't going to do you any benefits if you end up failing a class, or if you get to step 1 during your second year and don't know the basics b/c you were too busy trying to jump straight into research. Go to school, do well, and after a month or two, start shadowing different specialties and seeing what you like/dislike. Then get involved in research, you will have plenty of time to get good research done even though you aren't starting it within the first few weeks of med school.

You guys will figure this out as you go through med school, tons of m1's come in and make the mistake of automatically trying to resume prep for residency and that's something you don't need to do, and something that quite often gets people in too deep too quickly. (Seriously, within your first few months you'll hear how everyone and their moms want to go into Ortho/insert some other competitive surgical subspecialty and how they are going to do X,Y,etc). Talk to m3/m4's that are going into the specialties you are interested in, I bet you the vast majority of them didn't start research within the first few weeks of med school and still matched/will match into great programs.

I agree with all that. I didn't mean start research right away. But attending interest groups early on is fine. As a general rule of thumb, though, and that applies to undergrad too but is even more true in med school with the drastically larger workload, the first 6 months at a School you should just focus on your classes and doing the best you can in them. Once you start to get the hang of it, you can add on some EC's and do some research, but classes and grades should be established first.

Anyhow, let's get this thread back on topic so it can be helpful to OP!

 

[longtimelurker2015]

Club fairs are normally within the first few weeks of school, so I don't think it would be weird for someone to go to a club meeting right away. And at the first club meeting, the students would probably give advice on researching and shadowing so OP won't even need to ask.

And I know at Tulane there is a research program. There is an info meeting in August and you contact PIs throughout September. You submit an app and statement of purpose in October. Then you start in the lab by January. If you choose the "front-loaded" structure for the program, you commit to 1 half day in the lab per week throughout 1st and 2nd yr and then full time throughout the summer, produce a 10-25pg thesis, brush it up during 3rd yr, and present at research forum 4th yr. There was also a 2nd yr med student who came into my current lab all throughout his 2nd yr and I've talked to him about research and I don't think it's that uncommon to start 1st yr

This. All this. Couldn't have put it better. Not start research from day one, but take steps from day 1 to set up valuable research a few months down.

 

[Mansamusa]

This. All this. Couldn't have put it better. Not start research from day one, but take steps from day 1 to set up valuable research a few months down.

If you look on orthogate and nsgapplicants and urologymatch and some sdn threads (separate website forums for the individual surg subspecialties) there are actually people who move to their med schools in the summer before school starts so that they can find a lab and hit the ground running with research within the first month of school, hahaha. I think that is a little too much

 

[longtimelurker2015]

If you look on orthogate and nsgapplicants and urologymatch and some sdn threads (separate website forums for the individual surg subspecialties) there are actually people who move to their med schools in the summer before school starts so that they can find a lab and hit the ground running with research within the first month of school, hahaha. I think that is a little too much

Wow! That's intense. Def' not doing that before August: will be enjoying the last modicum of freedom that the next 3 months can still provide us before the insanity of med school begins

 

[TheWardIsNotEnough]

As an RFU student who just graduated, I can tell you a little more about those ortho matches. All of them were stellar students, most AOA if I remember correctly. They had fantastic step 1 scores, and they all had research to back up their interests. As far as I know, personal connections did not play a big part in any of their matches, though at least two of them did rotations at big name places that they set up themselves.

If I were you, I'd grab a repayment calculator and look at what those costs look like when you're repaying them. If you defer through residency, they're going up by around 20-30%, so you're looking at more like 400 vs. 300k (I'm coming out of RFU with ~15k in scholarships awarded and my debt is around $300,000). When you repay, you're paying off interest every month so it ends up being a lot more than you think.

Also, I mentioned this to another student in a similar situation, but remember that you don't know how you're going to perform in medical school. You might have a crappy step 1 or clinicals, and the lower your debt, the less financial pressure there will be to go into a high-paying specialty. Same goes for if you just all of a sudden realize you love pediatrics, neurology, or family medicine, none of which are usually huge money-makers. Less debt means you can do what you love more easily without worrying about the money.

That being said, which city do you like more? Are you ok living in north Chicago (WHICH IS NOT CHICAGO!) for two years? I liked it because there was nothing to do and it made it easier to buckle down and study, but you might prefer to be in NOLA for all four years. That fits into the equation too!

Best of luck, and if you decide on RFUMS, pop over a PM and we'll talk.




Large dogs

Thanks for the lowdown. I'll probably send you a lengthy PM once I've fully composed my thoughts about what in particular I want to know. For now though, could you comment on whether the guys who matched Ortho and other surgical sub specialties had to take research years, for the most part? One of the other things that concerns me about not having access to affiliated clinical departments if I go to CMS is the ability to find research ops, so I'd be very curious to hear if students are in general able to overcome that difficulty within the 4 year duration of med school or are forced to extend the process by an extra year.

 

[tantacles]

Thanks for the lowdown. I'll probably send you a lengthy PM once I've fully composed my thoughts about what in particular I want to know. For now though, could you comment on whether the guys who matched Ortho and other surgical sub specialties had to take research years, for the most part? One of the other things that concerns me about not having access to affiliated clinical departments if I go to CMS is the ability to find research ops, so I'd be very curious to hear if students are in general able to overcome that difficulty within the 4 year duration of med school or are forced to extend the process by an extra year.

The students who matched ortho this year did not take a year off.


Large dogs

 

[lmn]

Thanks for the lowdown. I'll probably send you a lengthy PM once I've fully composed my thoughts about what in particular I want to know. For now though, could you comment on whether the guys who matched Ortho and other surgical sub specialties had to take research years, for the most part? One of the other things that concerns me about not having access to affiliated clinical departments if I go to CMS is the ability to find research ops, so I'd be very curious to hear if students are in general able to overcome that difficulty within the 4 year duration of med school or are forced to extend the process by an extra year.

If you're really curious about research opportunities, I would take a look at the hospitals they rotate at in the department you are interested in and see if their attendings and residents are publishing. If they are doing a good amount of research, there will more than likely be good opportunities for you to get involved. If you guys rotate with them, I'm willing to bet they are willing to let you get involved with their projects, it isn't like you are some random person with no institutional ties.