Is med school harder than a 9-5 job?

[glassesvar]

The main factor that is making me question medicine is giving up my 20s. My parents are pretty well off and are willing to pay in full so I will have no loans, and I won't have to live like a student taking out loans for the next however many years of training. Thus, the only negative of this process will be actual stresses of training itself. I recognize that I am extremely blessed to come from a family that is able to afford me such an opportunity and has the financial ability to do this, which is why I am considering this decision so carefully. After doing a lot of shadowing, I've decided I am not looking to go into a competitive specialty, and would be happy in FM, psych, etc. My main priority is lifestyle. I am passionate about medicine and want to help people, but coming from a family of physicians I have seen the toll being a physician can take on a person, and thus want to prioritize my own mental health and happiness. Ideally I would want to match into an uncompetitive or moderately competitive specialty and work 40 or less hours a week after residency.

My questions are: Could I go through the majority of med school treating it like a 9-5 job? I know there may be certain periods of time, such as a surgery rotation, where this may not be possible, but in general is it possible given my goals? Could I treat med school like any other job and actually have a life outside of medicine for the majority of my twenties (besides during residency)?

Some context: Rote memorization is one of my strengths, and I am a person that can memorize and retain information at a relatively fast rate compared to my classmates (I'm only adding this in because I've heard a good chunk of medical training is rote memorization, but I am aware that there are other components).

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[bananafish94]

Impossible to say until you get into it. Some people can treat it like a 9-5 job fairly easily and do quite well. I am not one of those people, and I've accepted that I simply need to throw more time at some things than others. I've tended to treat it as more of a 7-8/7-9 job. And during third year essentially nobody can treat it like a 9-5 job because you're at the hospital all day and then you have to study at least a little bit at night.

 

[Catalystik]

The main factor that is making me question medicine is giving up my 20s. My parents are pretty well off and are willing to pay in full so I will have no loans, and I won't have to live like a student taking out loans for the next however many years of training. Thus, the only negative of this process will be actual stresses of training itself. I recognize that I am extremely blessed to come from a family that is able to afford me such an opportunity and has the financial ability to do this, which is why I am considering this decision so carefully. After doing a lot of shadowing, I've decided I am not looking to go into a competitive specialty, and would be happy in FM, psych, etc. My main priority is lifestyle. I am passionate about medicine and want to help people, but coming from a family of physicians I have seen the toll being a physician can take on a person, and thus want to prioritize my own mental health and happiness. Ideally I would want to match into an uncompetitive or moderately competitive specialty and work 40 or less hours a week after residency.

My questions are: Could I go through the majority of med school treating it like a 9-5 job? I know there may be certain periods of time, such as a surgery rotation, where this may not be possible, but in general is it possible given my goals? Could I treat med school like any other job and actually have a life outside of medicine for the majority of my twenties (besides during residency)?

Some context: Rote memorization is one of my strengths, and I am a person that can memorize and retain information at a relatively fast rate compared to my classmates (I'm only adding this in because I've heard a good chunk of medical training is rote memorization, but I am aware that there are other components).

I think the first two years will be more like an 8am to 10pm job, with two meal breaks, including evenings at the library. If you keep up with your studies, you can take some time off for a few hours on the weekends. Third year will be 7am to 6pm, unless your team is on call, which could vary depending on if your team lets you go home at night, and then you still need to study up on your patients when you have access to learning materials at home. Fourth year you can make as easy as you like. Some rotations will definitely be 9am-5pm and done.

 

[TRPMinus]

IMO this is highly variable. I never study past 4-5pm, even before tests. I think that this probably has more to do with me being more productive rather than being smarter than classmates. Many people study in groups and it ends up being time to gossip rather than study. Then they whine about studying for “9 hours” when it’s really been like 4. I think it is generally easier than having a real job: at most schools you come and go as you please and you aren’t required to work weekends. Not a terrible way to spend your 20s considering you’d probably be working your butt off at a normal job. Also, it’s all about perception. Many kids starting med school have never worked in a full time permanent position for any length of time. Having done that, I see my med school schedule as ultra flexible and quite nice.

 

[Select All That Apply]

@glassesvar I've never seen someone work a 9 to 5 job that considered it financially sustainable. Also, I've never worked a 9 to 5 job outside of retail which paid minimum wage so I ended up taking extra hours or back to back shifts.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I've never seen someone work a 9 to 5 job that considered it financially sustainable.

Yeah you need to see more people lol.

OP honestly it doesn’t sound like you really want to be a doctor, it sounds like you like the idea of it but don’t actually want to do it. Nothing wrong with that, go find a career that fits what you want because it doesn’t look like medicine is it.

 

[dodolol21]

@glassesvar I've never seen someone work a 9 to 5 job that considered it financially sustainable. Also, I've never worked a 9 to 5 job outside of retail which paid minimum wage so I ended up taking extra hours or back to back shifts.

Don from Mad Men worked 9-5 and it looked like he made all kindz money

 

[Goro]

The main factor that is making me question medicine is giving up my 20s. My parents are pretty well off and are willing to pay in full so I will have no loans, and I won't have to live like a student taking out loans for the next however many years of training. Thus, the only negative of this process will be actual stresses of training itself. I recognize that I am extremely blessed to come from a family that is able to afford me such an opportunity and has the financial ability to do this, which is why I am considering this decision so carefully. After doing a lot of shadowing, I've decided I am not looking to go into a competitive specialty, and would be happy in FM, psych, etc. My main priority is lifestyle. I am passionate about medicine and want to help people, but coming from a family of physicians I have seen the toll being a physician can take on a person, and thus want to prioritize my own mental health and happiness. Ideally I would want to match into an uncompetitive or moderately competitive specialty and work 40 or less hours a week after residency.

My questions are: Could I go through the majority of med school treating it like a 9-5 job? I know there may be certain periods of time, such as a surgery rotation, where this may not be possible, but in general is it possible given my goals? Could I treat med school like any other job and actually have a life outside of medicine for the majority of my twenties (besides during residency)?

Some context: Rote memorization is one of my strengths, and I am a person that can memorize and retain information at a relatively fast rate compared to my classmates (I'm only adding this in because I've heard a good chunk of medical training is rote memorization, but I am aware that there are other components).

Residency will be a 60-80 hour a week job, even in Family Med, I'm told.

And med school is not merely brute memory, you have to be able to apply.

 

[bizdr]

I don't think you will be giving up your life at all! You will have time before exams where you will have to study a lot - but you surely have free time. And you build great camaraderie with the other students. Medical school gave me some of my best memories. But surely the material comes easier to some. I was lucky in that sense, that I could pick it up fairly quickly. Some people really struggled even though they studied for hours! Now after that, if you choose something like surgery - then you are deciding to give up most of your life because you love surgery so much. At least for a few years.

 

[dodolol21]

Residency will be a 60-80 hour a week job, even in Family Med, I'm told.

And med school is not merely brute memory, you have to be able to apply.

One of my friends in a community family med program actually said his schedule is really manageable. He said it generally sits around 50-60. So could def be residency programs that are a little lighter

 

[The Knife & Gun Club]

At all but the kushest med schools and residencies 60-80 hours/week is the norm.

Years 1-2 you set your own schedule, but can expect to spend at least 60 hrs per week (like 9-7 x 6 days a week), creeping towards 80 as you approach step 1. But you can pick which days you want off, and can take time off for weddings and other big events as needed as long as you’re ok taking the hit to your grades.

Year 3 you’re on the wards and will hover around 60 - 80 hours a week, but on a fixed scheduled. You work 6:30 am - 7:30 pm x 6 days a week + studying 1-2 hrs a day at home. Some rotations are easier (family), some are harder (surgery) but that’s the norm. Then residency is x10 worse.

I think it’s important to realize that for most premeds, you’re going to give up the vast majority of your life to time spent training. Weekends are mostly gone. Same with most family/friends events and weddings. You are expected to work during natural disasters and holidays. Hell I have a hard enough time just making sure I have groceries in the fridge and laundry done.

 

[ciestar]

At all but the kushest med schools and residencies 60-80 hours/week is the norm.

Years 1-2 you set your own schedule, but can expect to spend at least 60 hrs per week (like 9-7 x 6 days a week), creeping towards 80 as you approach step 1. But you can pick which days you want off, and can take time off for weddings and other big events as needed as long as you’re ok taking the hit to your grades.

Year 3 you’re on the wards and will hover around 60 - 80 hours a week, but on a fixed scheduled. You work 6:30 am - 7:30 pm x 6 days a week + studying 1-2 hrs a day at home. Some rotations are easier (family), some are harder (surgery) but that’s the norm. Then residency is x10 worse.

I think it’s important to realize that for most premeds, you’re going to give up the vast majority of your life to time spent training. Weekends are mostly gone. Same with most family/friends events and weddings. You are expected to work during natural disasters and holidays. Hell I have a hard enough time just making sure I have groceries in the fridge and laundry done.

Just be aware it is also site dependent. Most of my FM rotation I got to show up at 830 and leave around 4 (except inpatient where I had to be there at 7 and got to leave around 3). My next rotation report time seems to be 9 am lol

But..same. My laundry gets done next to never and grocery shopping happens when I get around to it.

 

[glassesvar]

Does anyone know how medical training compares to dental school? Would dental be more conducive to lifestyle balance both in school and after? I've heard dental is more lifestyle friendly but was wondering if I could find the same lifestyle in medicine.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Does anyone know how medical training compares to dental school? Would dental be more conducive to lifestyle balance both in school and after? I've heard dental is more lifestyle friendly but was wondering if I could find the same lifestyle in medicine.

Well there is no residency to be a general dentist. Dentistry is the easier path compared to medicine.

 

[smukke]

As a non-trad the biggest difference I've felt is the complete lack of control over my schedule. In my old job if I needed to take a half-day off in order to take care of some things it was completely doable and no one would fault me for it (assuming I planned for it) whereas in medical school/residency your schedule is mostly at the mercy of whoever made up your rotation schedule and your preceptor/residents. Every field will have an "investment" phase where you will spend more time at work than average and have a relatively set schedule, medicine is more rigid than other but offers better guarantees for the future.

First 2 years: ultra flexible (depending on the school). You put in as much time as you need to, you are only required to be on campus for required stuff and how much time you spend studying outside of that is entirely up to what you need to pass/obtain the scores you want. I had classmates that "commuted" 1-3+hrs weekly for the required stuff, had a crashpad and would just go "home" when their commitments were done to study on their own.
Last 2 years: pretty inflexible, somewhat rotation dependent but be prepared to spend most business hours of your week tied to your rotation (8-5, M-F), nights and weekends are rotation dependent, time off for weddings, etc are doable but have to be scheduled.
Residency: completely inflexible, plan your life around your rotations. Some rotations are more flexible than others, ones like EM can be very shift based.

As a resident I'll say that there are many weeks where I work less hours than my sibling who is senior level associate in a different field. Difference is that they make double what I do and have more control over their schedule and ability to schedule vacations whereas I have to schedule my time off around my rotations. We both look forward to having a lot more flexibility in a few years, at which point my salary should be close to double theirs (assuming they are able to make director level which is a huge assumption vs almost guaranteed for me).

 

[fugacitybrah]

IMO this is highly variable. I never study past 4-5pm, even before tests. I think that this probably has more to do with me being more productive rather than being smarter than classmates. Many people study in groups and it ends up being time to gossip rather than study. Then they whine about studying for “9 hours” when it’s really been like 4. I think it is generally easier than having a real job: at most schools you come and go as you please and you aren’t required to work weekends. Not a terrible way to spend your 20s considering you’d probably be working your butt off at a normal job. Also, it’s all about perception. Many kids starting med school have never worked in a full time permanent position for any length of time. Having done that, I see my med school schedule as ultra flexible and quite nice.

Can you explain how you study or how you remain productive?

 

[The Knife & Gun Club]

Can you explain how you study or how you remain productive?

At least for M1-2 you just need to be cognizant of how you study, and make an active effort to improve.

You’d be surprised by how much your efficiency improves over 2 years. By the time step 1 rolls around you’re like a finely tuned study machine, with a weirdly good understanding of what makes your brain work best

 

[aldol16]

Probably for the first two years you can do that if you're not gunning for a super competitive specialty. Definitely not possible (at least not consistently) for your clerkship years. You can't do surgery clerkship in a 9-5 manner. Or IM for that matter. For outpatient medicine clerkships, you can have something close to a 9-5 schedule.

 

[Medic741]

Yes. And as a kicker you live off $28k/yr

 

[el_duderino]

Playing devil’s advocate for a moment, I would suggest the OP needs to understand that no matter what he/she hopes for, medical school could be the worst easily with it being a 7am-11pm being a normal day. You need to go into this with eyes wide open. The question is if you really want to be a good IM or FP and help people, are you willing to face the possibilty of training being a tough haul?

7A-11P was nowhere near my experience as a med student. My longest hours were ICU and surgery rotations, which were more like 6A-7P 5 days a week, with another 2-8 hour day most weeks. Nothing else was ever more than 10 hours a day, if that. MS1 and MS2 were difficult mentally, but I was never at school at 10-11 PM studying, and I was never studying at home past 4-5 PM unless I had an exam in a couple of days. Step 1 studying was 12-14 hours a day solid.

To answer the OP's question, you can't treat it like a 9-5 job because it's just too irregular, and it's too difficult. You need to find time and distractions anywhere you can. It's a lot harder than a 9-5. And FWIW I worked a financially sustainable 9-5 for a decade before med school.

 

[Bnaiah]

As a non-trad the biggest difference I've felt is the complete lack of control over my schedule. In my old job if I needed to take a half-day off in order to take care of some things it was completely doable and no one would fault me for it (assuming I planned for it) whereas in medical school/residency your schedule is mostly at the mercy of whoever made up your rotation schedule and your preceptor/residents. Every field will have an "investment" phase where you will spend more time at work than average and have a relatively set schedule, medicine is more rigid than other but offers better guarantees for the future.

First 2 years: ultra flexible (depending on the school). You put in as much time as you need to, you are only required to be on campus for required stuff and how much time you spend studying outside of that is entirely up to what you need to pass/obtain the scores you want. I had classmates that "commuted" 1-3+hrs weekly for the required stuff, had a crashpad and would just go "home" when their commitments were done to study on their own.
Last 2 years: pretty inflexible, somewhat rotation dependent but be prepared to spend most business hours of your week tied to your rotation (8-5, M-F), nights and weekends are rotation dependent, time off for weddings, etc are doable but have to be scheduled.
Residency: completely inflexible, plan your life around your rotations. Some rotations are more flexible than others, ones like EM can be very shift based.

As a resident I'll say that there are many weeks where I work less hours than my sibling who is senior level associate in a different field. Difference is that they make double what I do and have more control over their schedule and ability to schedule vacations whereas I have to schedule my time off around my rotations. We both look forward to having a lot more flexibility in a few years, at which point my salary should be close to double theirs (assuming they are able to make director level which is a huge assumption vs almost guaranteed for me).

Thanks for posting! I will matriculate when I am 52. I am retired from the military and I am used to working 20-24hrs ( especially pulling duty). I was really concerned, but I am really hyper still and motivated. My husband and I have been married for 20 years, but thanks to the military and tours in Iraq and Saudi Arabia, Korea and other training, I feel that we can stand the “test” of med school. I realize that every school is different, but it is good to see a post from a non - traditional student

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Thanks for posting! I will matriculate when I am 52. I am retired from the military and I am used to working 20-24hrs ( especially pulling duty). I was really concerned, but I am really hyper still and motivated. My husband and I have been married for 20 years, but thanks to the military and tours in Iraq and Saudi Arabia, Korea and other training, I feel that we can stand the “test” of med school. I realize that every school is different, but it is good to see a post from a non - traditional student

You need to change your profile pic.

 

[el_duderino]

Thanks for posting! I will matriculate when I am 52. I am retired from the military and I am used to working 20-24hrs ( especially pulling duty). I was really concerned, but I am really hyper still and motivated. My husband and I have been married for 20 years, but thanks to the military and tours in Iraq and Saudi Arabia, Korea and other training, I feel that we can stand the “test” of med school. I realize that every school is different, but it is good to see a post from a non - traditional student

You hope to matriculate when you're 52.

 

[Bnaiah]

You hope to matriculate when you're 52.[/QUOTE
Yes. If all goes as expected, I will be 52 in 2020

 

[Bnaiah]

You need to change your profile pic.

Why

 

[psychMDhopefully]

They both suck, but in different ways.


Med school is stressful because you constantly doubt your competence and always have to study.


9-5 Other mentally ill Aholes make your life miserable just because; you have some of this in 3rd year too, 3rd year is more like a 9-5 job.

 

[Bnaiah]

You hope to matriculate when you're 52.

Of course... Nothing is guaranteed