Is med school life romanticizable?

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Catria

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I may not know that many medical residents, but medical residents I know (one is in psychiatry and another one in internal medicine, plus a few others I do not remember firsthand which residency they were matched into) that even have the ability to look back on med school vs. residency in the first place all claimed that residency was hell even compared to med school itself, or otherwise form a stark contrast to med school, and they're about 1-2 years into their residencies.

So, even though residency contributes more to a physician's practice than the MD itself, I am inclined to believe that the MD is actually romanticizable, unlike residency. This leads me to the following questions:

1. Is med school life actually romanticizable? (as opposed to the medical profession)
2. If med school life was actually romanticizable, what would you think could contribute to the romance of med school life?
3. For those who hold MDs, or are in med school right now, which institution do you feel (assuming you earned your MD from, or go to med school at, an institution other than your undergrad) the most pride on a personal level between your med school and your undergrad?
 
Several docs said med school was great and enjoy the time you have now. I think this is often due to current stress of unhealthy relationships, kids, and working too much. Medical school probably seems a lot easier compared to that.


Hint: Don't get into unhealthy relationships, have too many kids, or work too much. Plan your finances way in advance of any of that stuff and figure out the kind of life you want. Even a general plan is better than nothing.
 
Catria said:
1. Is med school life actually romanticizable? (as opposed to the medical profession)
2. If med school life was actually romanticizable, what would you think could contribute to the romance of med school life?
3. For those who hold MDs, or are in med school right now, which institution do you feel (assuming you earned your MD from, or go to med school at, an institution other than your undergrad) the most pride on a personal level between your med school and your undergrad?
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1/2. People tend to remember positive experiences and forget the negative (in terms of life, we all know they report negative more than positive on online surveys!)
b. Some med schools have periods that are pretty chill, which could mean plenty of nice experiences.
c. I'm convinced there's probably so much variation in third-year experiences both on an intra- and inter- institutional level that it heavily influences how people see the "med school" experience.
3. Proud of making it through both. Probably undergrad more than med school.
 
It's easy to be romantic about things you've already done and will never have to do again. The stress comes from uncertainty of not knowing how you're going to perform or whether you'll even make it through i.e. from actually being in the middle of the process as opposed to having already completed it.

Third and fourth years have their moments but for the most part it's rather mundane. I don't know how anybody could be romantic about the first and second years.
 
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O Grady said:
no
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👍

That being said, it's a lot more exciting than working a minimum wage job in a small town that's a nesting place for the elderly, though. The pace of life is much faster, and you're around some pretty incredible people around your age with similar interests. In that respect, it's a lot of fun.
 
I agree. It's like my dad's platoon leader told him: Men, 50 of yall are going into the jungle. 25 of you, aren't coming back.

carpe diem
 
Hmm, interesting. Romanticizable maybe isn't the right term...maybe more nostalgia inducing (how do you make that a verb?)

It absolutely depends on the person and their experience. I was a way better resident than I was a medical student, and had much closer friendships during residency than fellowship so I get misty-eyed about residency the most. The pacing of med school is different though too and may help people romanticize it, the difference between the preclinical years vs M3 means most people are going to find one or the other much more palatable. And M4 is a very cush, so if you're happy with your Match results, then looking back the M4 year is awesome and recency bias makes up for the misery before that.

Lastly, your time in residency is really not your own, you're almost always beholden to your patients, your attendings, or most likely your co-residents. There's limited flexibility, it's expected that you'll continue to perform despite personal illness/grief/difficulties/etc., and the "payoffs" aren't as frequent as you'd hope. That's really tough on many, many people, and something that is unique compared to others in our age cohort with "normal careers" where it's typically not a huge deal if you show up at 9:30 vs 9a or what have you. Even compared to med school, where every year but the 3rd is relatively structureless compared to the life of an intern.
 
Señor S said:
It's easy to be romantic about things you've already done and will never have to do again. The stress comes from uncertainty of not knowing how you're going to perform or whether you'll even make it through i.e. from actually being in the middle of the process as to already having completed it.

As far as med school goes, third and fourth year have their moments but for the most part it's rather mundane. I don't know how anybody could be romantic about the first and second years.
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If anything, I romanticize first and second year more than the clinical years. Sure, I helped code a patient the other week who is now doing well, but those moments are rare.

Second year was about being an efficient, information-consolidating machine and being afforded the time to actually be interested in what I was learning.

Third year is about being chronically sleep deprived, waking patients up at 6 in the morning, writing notes that nobody reads and getting yelled at by dinguses in scrubs with associates degrees after reminding said people to do the parts of their job that don't get done otherwise.
 
Like everything else in life, it's all about the people around you. If you go to a big school with a large med school class with also a large undergrad and grad population, have many friends, date lots of different people, travel on your breaks, are involved in social things, etc, then yes, no matter how much biochem sucks at the time, you'll think back on it fondly. If however you are in BFE in a small school with nobody you have anything in common with and spend your entire time locked in your room reading first aid and eating burger king, then no, you'll probably either look back with hatred or regret.

Residency typically sucks because (1) you have a much smaller peer group most of whom have settled down in life and (2) your time requirements pretty much exclude any meaningful life outside of work. So, even though the exam-every-2-weeks pressure isn't there, you're not likely to romanticize it much. You're just working your butt off, killing time, and getting older. You can also feel whatever little last bit remains of your youth whither away and die through those 3-7 years. And for a large part, it's youth itself that's romanticizable more than anything. I look back on some truly miserable points of my life when I was younger and somehow now only have fond thoughts. Residency is just meh.
 
sloop said:
If anything, I romanticize first and second year more than the clinical years. Sure, I helped code a patient the other week who is now doing well, but those moments are rare.

Second year was about being an efficient, information-consolidating machine and being afforded the time to actually be interested in what I was learning.

Third year is about being chronically sleep deprived, waking patients up at 6 in the morning, writing notes that nobody reads and getting yelled at by dinguses in scrubs with associates degrees after reminding said people to do the parts of their job that don't get done otherwise.
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I feel you brother; the highs are higher but the lows are also lower. And the lows are certainly more frequent than the highs. But at least you can go home and impress your family with stories about codes and crazy traumas and whatever else, which is more what I was getting at when I said "romantic." First two years can be pretty comfortable once you find your groove, but nobody's going to be impressed by tales of reading slides and filling out Scantrons.
 
Also, would you romanticize med school more if you attend a more prestigious med school? Would physicians that obtained their MDs from a top-20 med school be more likely to look back more fondly on their med school days than physicians who went to second-tier med schools?

I knew lawyers would romanticize law school more if they attended a T14 law school but that probably has to do with law school life not being (nearly?) as cutthroat when one is in a T14 law school vs. a non-T14 one. And also part of it is a function of law being a profession that is more prestige-sensitive than medicine.
 
Catria said:
Also, would you romanticize med school more if you attend a more prestigious med school? Would physicians that obtained their MDs from a top-20 med school be more likely to look back more fondly on their med school days than physicians who went to second-tier med schools?

I knew lawyers would romanticize law school more if they attended a T14 law school but that probably has to do with law school life not being (nearly?) as cutthroat when one is in a T14 law school vs. a non-T14 one. And also part of it is a function of law being a profession that is more prestige-sensitive than medicine.
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I don't think it matters in medicine. Med school is gonna have a certain level of suckiness no matter where you go, which has to do with the fact that residency is so dependent on the boards. If you pass step 1 by one point, you're not going to a great place no matter where you went. If you blow it away, you're likely going to a very good place no matter where you went (assuming your other stuff is similarly good). Of course school has some role in applications but it's not as major.

Law school grads from lower tier law schools are somewhat likely to not even be working in law or be working on the periphery of the profession. They are more likely to either not make partner or make partner later than grads from good schools. If your law school gave you ****ty opportunities, of course you're not going to look favorably upon it.

Any U.S. allopathic school gives its students tremendous opportunity on graduation. Medicine is not the same as law in this regard.
 
I continue to maintain that the first 3 years of med school were overall very crappy. You're isolated, broke, unappreciated, disrespected, etc, etc, all while constantly worrying about grades and an uncertain future. In residency as long as you do your job you're fine, make enough money to live comfortably and are able to enjoy your free time rather than constantly studying or feeling guilty when you aren't.
 
MeatTornado said:
I continue to maintain that the first 3 years of med school were overall very crappy. You're isolated, broke, unappreciated, disrespected, etc, etc, all while constantly worrying about grades and an uncertain future. In residency as long as you do your job you're fine, make enough money to live comfortably and are able to enjoy your free time rather than constantly studying or feeling guilty when you aren't.
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The point is well taken, but let's remember that the more competitive the residency, the more studying needs to be done after hours, as a general rule. See Ophtho, Derm, Rad Onc, etc.
 
Dave89 said:
The point is well taken, but let's remember that the more competitive the residency, the more studying needs to be done after hours, as a general rule. See Ophtho, Derm, Rad Onc, etc.
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Keep in mind also that the ones you named there are strictly 9-5 outpatient based fields which means a lot more "after hours" during which to study. Very different than the 12, 16 or 30 hour days in IM or surgery. Also the fact that you have to study more for those fields is not a product of them being competitive it is because they're unconventional (you didn't learn much about them in med school etc so there's a lot more catching up to do)
 
MeatTornado said:
Keep in mind also that the ones you named there are strictly 9-5 outpatient based fields which means a lot more "after hours" during which to study. Very different than the 12, 16 or 30 hour days in IM or surgery. Also the fact that you have to study more for those fields is not a product of them being competitive it is because they're unconventional (you didn't learn much about them in med school etc so there's a lot more catching up to do)
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Almost 9-5. I've rotated in some of those specialties, and clinics don't usually start later than 8:30 (and that's apart from morning lectures, which can start from 7-7:30). Of course, the rest of your post is spot-on.
 
What about dual-degree holders? I suppose the answer would depend on the dual degree combination sought... perhaps a MD/PhD could romanticize the research stage of the MD/PhD more so than M1-2.
 
MeatTornado said:
I continue to maintain that the first 3 years of med school were overall very crappy. You're isolated, broke, unappreciated, disrespected, etc, etc, all while constantly worrying about grades and an uncertain future. In residency as long as you do your job you're fine, make enough money to live comfortably and are able to enjoy your free time rather than constantly studying or feeling guilty when you aren't.
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I really feel like that's something people do to themselves. Once I hit third year, maybe I'll change my tune, but for MS-1 and MS-2 I've never felt disrespected nor isolated. As to appreciated- what the hell is there for people to appreciate me for? Appreciation is earned, I don't deserve it yet. As to broke, well, let's just say I saved some money before school, so that wasn't a problem.
 
Mad Jack said:
I really feel like that's something people do to themselves. Once I hit third year, maybe I'll change my tune, but for MS-1 and MS-2 I've never felt disrespected nor isolated. As to appreciated- what the hell is there for people to appreciate me for? Appreciation is earned, I don't deserve it yet. As to broke, well, let's just say I saved some money before school, so that wasn't a problem.
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Disrespected and unappreciated were both referring to MS3. The first two years are very isolating. All you do is sit around and study which, despite what some would argue, is not a team sport. As for being broke - I probably saved more than you before med school to the point where I didn't take out any loans to cover cost of living, but I had to keep a very close eye on what I was spending, not really enjoyed myself because of those restrictions while watching my bank account shrink. Not fun.
 
MeatTornado said:
Disrespected and unappreciated were both referring to MS3. The first two years are very isolating. All you do is sit around and study which, despite what some would argue, is not a team sport. As for being broke - I probably saved more than you before med school to the point where I didn't take out any loans to cover cost of living, but I had to keep a very close eye on what I was spending, not really enjoyed myself because of those restrictions while watching my bank account shrink. Not fun.
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Yeah, I'm in a bit of a different situation- I saved enough to supplement my loans, rather than focus on minimizing debt, so I wouldn't have to take a hit to my quality of life while in med school and could afford to pretty much do what I want. Financially wise? Probably not. Has it made my experience much less unpleasant? Oh, certainly. As to the isolating bit- I've always been a bit of a loner, so I guess it doesn't bother me that much. I go out on weekends and hole up with my roommates from M-F. Having my gf around 3 days a week helps a lot, as does seeing my friends back home every other week.

We'll see how I feel about MS3. Hoping it isn't awful, we'll see.
 
Mad Jack said:
Once I hit third year, maybe I'll change my tune, but for MS-1 and MS-2 I've never felt disrespected nor isolated.
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You will.

MS3 is full of being disrespected and abused. Even if you have great residents, you will probably run into disrespectful nurses, and the reverse. The place I'm at now, I get totally abandoned by my interns for the majority of the afternoon and am told to go study and that they'll text me if there's an admission or something. I'm literally just killing time in the hospital until 5 when they let me go home. Despite the fact that residents and interns don't teach and make me stay in the hospital for no reason, I'm massively relieved because the last place I rotated through was awful. I would get asked to fax tons of **** before rounds while seeing patients and got yelled at by my interns when I was told by a records department that they had no records of the patient ever being there (and thus, there was nothing to do regarding getting these records). I got yelled at by a nurse for calling and politely letting her know that we had put in orders for a stat BMP.

Third year blows.
 
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I loved 3rd year. Ancillary staff in general was very nice and patient oriented though, and I only real dealt with malignant dinguses on gen surg. Not saying there weren't things that sucked, but overall the experience was very positive.
 
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Cytarabine said:
I loved 3rd year. Ancillary staff in general was very nice and patient oriented though, and I only real dealt with malignant dinguses on gen surg. Not saying there weren't things that sucked, but overall the experience was very positive.
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This has been more my experience. Third year has had some really low points, and I've had one or two isolated incidents where I really felt mistreated. But outside of that, everyone from nursing staff, to residents, up to attendings have been respectful, kind and some have taken extra time to help or teach me.I have a number of issues with MS3, but none have to do with the people or staff I'm working with.

It's worth noting, my hospital is known to be a very close knit more community based program. The people are nice here, and I've heard my hospital is known for that. I'm very fortunate to be here.

Third year is still rough, but it's been better than M1/M2 as whole...maybe not a whole lot better, but def better, for me at least.
 
zeppelinpage4 said:
This has been more my experience. Third year has had some really low points, and I've had one or two isolated incidents where I really felt mistreated. But outside of that, everyone from nursing staff, to residents, up to attendings have been respectful, kind and some have taken extra time to help or teach me.I have a number of issues with MS3, but none have to do with the people or staff I'm working with.

It's worth noting, my hospital is known to be a very close knit more community based program. The people are nice here, and I've heard my hospital is known for that. I'm very fortunate to be here.

Third year is still rough, but it's been better than M1/M2 as whole...maybe not a whole lot better, but def better, for me at least.
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My university's main teaching hospital is a bit of a sweat shop. Despite this, ironically, OB/GYN was a fantastic experience there—well organized, well taught, with fantastic people. Outpatient medicine was fantastic—I was working with somewhat of a local legend of an internist at his private but university-affiliated office. He loved me and was genuinely interested in me learning without the stress of nonsense to distract me.

Then inpatient medicine hit. I don't think there can be a much more malignant program than my university's internal med program. Interns were miserable and obviously breaking work hour rules. The program was supposed to stop giving them admissions at a certain time of night to ensure they could get out on time to not break work hour regulations, but this rule was literally never followed.

About a quarter of the time, you would go to the board where the nurses' assignments and phone numbers were supposed to be posted and the entire board would be erased despite nobody being in the process of rewriting it. Another quarter of the time, the numbers listed would be wrong and you'd get nasty, frustrated tones from the person who picked up because they evidently assumed you're an idiot who can't read. Literally a conversation I had: "This is not Sandra, this is Traci." "Oh, sorry, the board said you were Sandra. Are you covering 401-2, then?" "No." "Do you know who is?" "No." "Do you know who I could ask who might know who is?" "No. I have to go. *click*"

Attendings would walk into med student lectures in the afternoon in order to pass stacks of signed notes to me to run afterwards.

Many other instances, but this post would get so long with all of them.
 
In my correct opinion, M1 and M2 were great. I mean really, what was so bad about them? It was like an extension of college with very little actual responsibility. Weekends were always off. Sure there were tests, but the material was mildly interesting and I was disciplined enough to study at least as much as I needed to, and the tests all turned out fine and I had a good deal of free time. I made a great set of friends I'll have a bond for life with.

M3 was a godawful year. My least favorite year of this process so far.

M4 was amazing.

Intern year mostly sucked.

Residency is ok so far.
 
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