Is medicine worth it? I need support please

[vantheman]

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Hello, I appreciate any responses. This is my first post, but I have been reading posts on this site for two years now. I apologize for its length, but I have been holding this in for months.

I am applying next cycle and I believe I have a pretty good chance of getting into medical school at least somewhere ( I have been comparing my stats to the MSAR and I am competitive).

I just don't know if it is worth it anymore. I have plenty of experience (500+ clinical hours, 100+ hours of shadowing) and I know I truly enjoy dealing with patients and being in the clinical setting. Furthermore, I love the science behind medicine and I always enjoy learning more about it.

I know I would enjoy patient interaction and learning about medicine, but the more I research the future of the field, THE MORE I HAVE DOUBTS.

Here are my top "cons"

1. Debt, Debt, Debt. My guess is that I will end up with around 250k in debt (I have 25k from under grand). I hear of interest rates as high 8%, yikes! This leads to wonder if this is a smart financial decision, you know, to be in debt until I am 45ish?

2. Time away from family. I understand med school/residency has always been tough, and will always be that way. I can deal with that. But the fact that I will end up with high debt leads me to believe I will be forced to specialize and work long hours in order to support my family while paying off my debt. This automatically leads to less family time, which makes me sad. (Footnote, I understand doctors have always had to work long hours, but I feel as though its worse now and that these long hours are worked not for the patients, but just to survive and make ends meet).

3. I have talked to countless physicians and I would say about 10% of them tell me to go for it, 40% tell me they won't say either way, 25% tell me not to do it, and the rest beg me not do it. This is a big deal in my eyes, if my heroes are telling me to look into other things then maybe they are right?

A part of me wants to walk away from all of this because of these 3 main things. I look into other professions, but I just can't see myself loving them as much as I think I will love medicine.

If you guys/gals can give me some feedback, it would be MUCH appreciated.

ps. I have heard the "you just gotta do what you love" argument countless times and I agree with it. Yes, I do love being in the clinical setting and learning about medicine. But I also love the idea of having a great family life and not being in debt forever.

I am really sad that the main reason for me maybe changing fields is due to financial reasons, especially when thinking about all the countless obstacles I have over come to get my application to where it is today. I feel like the dream of becoming a doctor has been slowly beaten out of me by the things mentioned above.

Please help?

 

[chaalay]

If you're not 110% set to become a physician, don't bother. This is an all-or-nothing profession. Either you are, or you are not a physician.

Basically, if you have any doubts, you might as well not bother because it is not easy.

 

[darknight]

If you're not 110% set to become a physician, don't bother. This is an all-or-nothing profession. Either you are, or you are not a physician.

Basically, if you have any doubts, you might as well not bother because it is not easy.

👎thumbdown

:troll:

 

[OneTwoThreeFour]

.

 

[Aerus]

If you do primary care, like FP or general IM, then hours and call aren't bad. You can definitely have a family. The only downside is the salary, but it's still way above average.

If your stats are stellar enough, then you could even qualify for merit scholarships. Just apply broadly and see what happens. I know a few fantastic applicants who ended up getting close to a full ride for med school. Do your research on these types of schools.

Good luck with whatever decision you make!

 

[Chir0nex]

I'll try to address your points individually. First of all, you are right that debt is a big deal, but that being said, you are entering into a profession that does pay enough to handle it. Depending on how old you are, and the school etc, you can pay it off in 10-15 years easily. Also, there are many forgiveness programs for people entering primary care specialties, so you may not have to enter an intense specialty purely for financial reasons. This leads into the issue of time. No matter what you do, even if you are making tons of money as a doctor, you will have to spend a great deal of time working. Obviously this is a personal question you have to ask yourself in terms of how it relates to a future family. I grew up with two physician parents and feel confident I can have a family and be involved even working long hours. Finally, I have never had a doctor tell me to avoid medicine, but really it does not matter what others think. Focus on figuring out if you enjoy the work and are passionate about it (both the patient interaction and science), and if the sacrfices involved are worth it to you. Each person has there own values and priorities, and what he or she thinks is worthwhile will be different from what you think is important.

 

[getdown]

Hello, I appreciate any responses. This is my first post, but I have been reading posts on this site for two years now. I apologize for its length, but I have been holding this in for months.

I am applying next cycle and I believe I have a pretty good chance of getting into medical school at least somewhere ( I have been comparing my stats to the MSAR and I am competitive).

I just don't know if it is worth it anymore. I have plenty of experience (500+ clinical hours, 100+ hours of shadowing) and I know I truly enjoy dealing with patients and being in the clinical setting. Furthermore, I love the science behind medicine and I always enjoy learning more about it.

I know I would enjoy patient interaction and learning about medicine, but the more I research the future of the field, THE MORE I HAVE DOUBTS.

Here are my top "cons"

1. Debt, Debt, Debt. My guess is that I will end up with around 250k in debt (I have 25k from under grand). I hear of interest rates as high 8%, yikes! This leads to wonder if this is a smart financial decision, you know, to be in debt until I am 45ish?

2. Time away from family. I understand med school/residency has always been tough, and will always be that way. I can deal with that. But the fact that I will end up with high debt leads me to believe I will be forced to specialize and work long hours in order to support my family while paying off my debt. This automatically leads to less family time, which makes me sad. (Footnote, I understand doctors have always had to work long hours, but I feel as though its worse now and that these long hours are worked not for the patients, but just to survive and make ends meet).

3. I have talked to countless physicians and I would say about 10% of them tell me to go for it, 40% tell me they won't say either way, 25% tell me not to do it, and the rest beg me not do it. This is a big deal in my eyes, if my heroes are telling me to look into other things then maybe they are right?

A part of me wants to walk away from all of this because of these 3 main things. I look into other professions, but I just can't see myself loving them as much as I think I will love medicine.

If you guys/gals can give me some feedback, it would be MUCH appreciated.

ps. I have heard the "you just gotta do what you love" argument countless times and I agree with it. Yes, I do love being in the clinical setting and learning about medicine. But I also love the idea of having a great family life and not being in debt forever.

I am really sad that the main reason for me maybe changing fields is due to financial reasons, especially when thinking about all the countless obstacles I have over come to get my application to where it is today. I feel like the dream of becoming a doctor has been slowly beaten out of me by the things mentioned above.

Please help?

1. Yes, debt is an issue and it sucks but that's not uncommon and a lot of your peers are coming out with about the same burden. There are plenty of ways to reduce that debt load. As someone mentioned you can do merit based scholarships which are few and hard to get. You can also go to your state medical school which often don't have as high of a tuition (depends on state). Once you're in you can do an military scholarship which pays for your med school and also gives you a living stipend for books/housing/etc. Of course you'll have to pay it back in terms of service and drawbacks include having to do military match, etc but it's doable if you want low debt. There are other loan forgiveness programs like the National Health Service, having your loans forgiven in 10 years if you practice/train in a non-profit hospital (any teaching hospital), etc. So, there are options you just gotta look for it. Some of them you won't even know about until you're in med school so just look around.

2. Time is definitely an issue. Some specialties are more forgiving than others. The hours for radiology and anesthesia are quite nice. Pathology maybe? Some of the more competitive surgical specialties are also pretty decent relative to the whole (optho, ortho). IM can also be decent if you become a hospitalist (2 weeks on 2 weeks off at least at my med school) and ER is also not bad if you don't mind working crazy hours. Others primary care fields like general surgery and OBGYN can be challenging. That being said, this is not a 9-5 job and you will have responsibilites that go beyond work hours. If you're looking for a nice chushy job that pays well... medicine isn't it. You can try medical consulting if you want but you still have to do residency first. But that's always bothered me personally just cause I think "why'd you go into medicine in the first place just to sit in a desk?"

3. I can't say to the physicians you talked to what their reasons are but if they're older their discontent could potentially extend from all the changes from when they were practicing. Now there are so many rules and regulations and beurocratic red tape that you can't move without potentially violating some stupid rules. I'm relatively new to this also but even I'm annoyed by all the damn rules in place. It'd be one thing if they're for patient benefits but most are implemented so the hospital doesn't get sued. Too bad we live in such a litigious society. For you that will be trained under these new setup won't even notice a difference unless they change it even more later.

So it's really your decision to follow through or not. I feel like it's been quite rewarding. Some of the things I see everyday are just so amazing that when I tell my friends, their jaws just drop. Being able to make decisions that directly impact a patient's well being is also a nice feeling. If you feel like you can find a job that make you feel as happy and rewarding as medicine kudos to you otherwise go for it. I could never envision myself sitting behind a desk all day with some idiot manager breathing down my back over a stupid excel sheet. No, I'd rather a hospital administrator be doing that cause of incomplete charting .

 

[Goro]

It's OK to have doubts about any new venture, but most of this I agree with. What does your heart tell you? Medicine is a calling, like being a priest or a policeman.

If you're not 110% set to become a physician, don't bother. This is an all-or-nothing profession. Either you are, or you are not a physician.

Basically, if you have any doubts, you might as well not bother because it is not easy.

 

[BlueLabel]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCC_b5WHLX0

.

 

[occams_razor]

It's OK to have doubts about any new venture, but most of this I agree with. What does your heart tell you? Medicine is a calling, like being a priest or a policeman.

Medicine is the only thing I see myself doing. I feel I would be unhappy doing anything else and would always regret it if I chose another profession. That said, I do worry about the massive amount of debt I already have and will continue to accrue. I also worry about not being able to spend as much time with my family as I would like to. These are valid concerns that I think many aspiring physicians have.

 

[circulus vitios]

If you're not 110% set to become a physician, don't bother. This is an all-or-nothing profession. Either you are, or you are not a physician.

Basically, if you have any doubts, you might as well not bother because it is not easy.

-A pre med.

 

[getdown]

-A pre med.

👎thumbdown

:troll:

If you're not 110% set to become a physician, don't bother. This is an all-or-nothing profession. Either you are, or you are not a physician.

Basically, if you have any doubts, you might as well not bother because it is not easy.

I don't understand why everyone's hating on this statement. There's a lot of truth to it. Yes, you should have a life and interest outside of medicine but the amount of dedication still needs to be there. As a resident, I want my co-residents to be fully invested into what they're doing because if they're not everybody else ends up picking up the slack. Furthermore, there's a lot of sacrifices that you have to make along the way personally, financially, socially. If you're not totally sure about it you will hate med school and residency and it's not a decision that you can suddenly develop love for either.

 

[mcloaf]

I don't understand why everyone's hating on this statement. There's a lot of truth to it. Yes, you should have a life and interest outside of medicine but the amount of dedication still needs to be there. As a resident, I want my co-residents to be fully invested into what they're doing because if they're not everybody else ends up picking up the slack. Furthermore, there's a lot of sacrifices that you have to make along the way personally, financially, socially. If you're not totally sure about it you will hate med school and residency and it's not a decision that you can suddenly develop love for either.

The difference is that coming from a resident that statement has meaning because you know what you're talking about.

 

[circulus vitios]

I don't understand why everyone's hating on this statement. There's a lot of truth to it. Yes, you should have a life and interest outside of medicine but the amount of dedication still needs to be there. As a resident, I want my co-residents to be fully invested into what they're doing because if they're not everybody else ends up picking up the slack. Furthermore, there's a lot of sacrifices that you have to make along the way personally, financially, socially. If you're not totally sure about it you will hate med school and residency and it's not a decision that you can suddenly develop love for either.

Because he's repeating something that he's never experienced. Like you said, there's a lot of truth to it, but it's not absolutely true. Other residents have said that it can be "just a job," although it is a demanding job.

 

[darknight]

I don't understand why everyone's hating on this statement. There's a lot of truth to it. Yes, you should have a life and interest outside of medicine but the amount of dedication still needs to be there. As a resident, I want my co-residents to be fully invested into what they're doing because if they're not everybody else ends up picking up the slack. Furthermore, there's a lot of sacrifices that you have to make along the way personally, financially, socially. If you're not totally sure about it you will hate med school and residency and it's not a decision that you can suddenly develop love for either.

How can you be 110% sure of something you have not experienced(referring to the first reply) . It's a long career, the reimbursement cuts and regulations at the end of the road are not looking that bright and a lot of debt $$$; is perfectly fine to have doubts.

People go to the field of medicine for different reasons. Not everyone goes with the same amount of dedication and it depends on the individual to see it as a job, life or etc.

 

[vantheman]

Thanks for all the replies everyone.

To the 110% thing, it's hard for me to buy into that. I couldn't imagine dedicating my life to something without carefully weighing out the cost and what it will take. How can you know you are so sure of something without even doing the research? And it is this research that I have done that has made me have some doubt, which I believe is healthy.

I do believe I will probably end up in medicine, but I want to start medical school knowing exactly what I am getting into, or at least try to know.

I guess my main question to everyone is, how do you guys cope with these issues (if they apply to you). Do you just ignore the elephant in the room and focus on how amazing medicine is?

Maybe we will get lucky and have either a conservative some how stop all these bureaucratic issues, or have a liberal who lowers the cost of medical school haha.

 

[Jewels86]

I, too, ponder this while working my night shift in the ED (I'm a nurse).

Here's my thoughts:

Debt: Sucks.

Time away from family: That's in any profession. I was bogged down in my BSN program, but I got through it. I would take time with the family when I was able; made good use of the time when they were gone at work or at school. I think you'll be okay.

I, too, have talked to physicians about medicine...if you talked to me now about nursing after doing it for some time, I'd say to really think about it first, follow me around for a night shift or two and then decide. It's really what YOU want; do you want to be the decision maker for the patient? Do you see yourself explaining labs to a patient that thinks all you do is order tests to generate more cash (I've heard this before)? Do you want to see a noncompliant patient that would drink a sippy pop in the waiting room that thinks their sugar of 300 is good for today while smoking a cig? Do you see yourself saving a life?

If you feel called, then do it. If you're unsure, follow a nurse and a doc in the ED to see what happens when people are noncompliant with what's prescribed. See it from ALL sides. If you're still unsure, there's no harm in waiting!! Nothing worse than going to the altar being uncertain

 

[mcloaf]

Hello, I appreciate any responses. This is my first post, but I have been reading posts on this site for two years now. I apologize for its length, but I have been holding this in for months.

I am applying next cycle and I believe I have a pretty good chance of getting into medical school at least somewhere ( I have been comparing my stats to the MSAR and I am competitive).

I just don't know if it is worth it anymore. I have plenty of experience (500+ clinical hours, 100+ hours of shadowing) and I know I truly enjoy dealing with patients and being in the clinical setting. Furthermore, I love the science behind medicine and I always enjoy learning more about it.

I know I would enjoy patient interaction and learning about medicine, but the more I research the future of the field, THE MORE I HAVE DOUBTS.

Here are my top "cons"

1. Debt, Debt, Debt. My guess is that I will end up with around 250k in debt (I have 25k from under grand). I hear of interest rates as high 8%, yikes! This leads to wonder if this is a smart financial decision, you know, to be in debt until I am 45ish?

2. Time away from family. I understand med school/residency has always been tough, and will always be that way. I can deal with that. But the fact that I will end up with high debt leads me to believe I will be forced to specialize and work long hours in order to support my family while paying off my debt. This automatically leads to less family time, which makes me sad. (Footnote, I understand doctors have always had to work long hours, but I feel as though its worse now and that these long hours are worked not for the patients, but just to survive and make ends meet).

3. I have talked to countless physicians and I would say about 10% of them tell me to go for it, 40% tell me they won't say either way, 25% tell me not to do it, and the rest beg me not do it. This is a big deal in my eyes, if my heroes are telling me to look into other things then maybe they are right?

A part of me wants to walk away from all of this because of these 3 main things. I look into other professions, but I just can't see myself loving them as much as I think I will love medicine.

If you guys/gals can give me some feedback, it would be MUCH appreciated.

ps. I have heard the "you just gotta do what you love" argument countless times and I agree with it. Yes, I do love being in the clinical setting and learning about medicine. But I also love the idea of having a great family life and not being in debt forever.

I am really sad that the main reason for me maybe changing fields is due to financial reasons, especially when thinking about all the countless obstacles I have over come to get my application to where it is today. I feel like the dream of becoming a doctor has been slowly beaten out of me by the things mentioned above.

Please help?

1. Yeah the debt is a pain, but there's not much to be done about it. The upside is that you're purchasing a degree that allows you to enter a field with great job security and you'll be making a lot more money than most Americans.

2. If you want to be successful you will be working long hours regardless of what you choose to do. It's not like the junior folks in law and business or other serious career fields are showing up at nine and clocking out at five every day either. The difference is the job security you have that they don't (see point 1).

Also, it is generally not worse now than it used to be. Almost all current practicing docs except the most junior attendings trained in a time before work hour restrictions when 100+ hour weeks were the norm. If you expect them to have much sympathy for the hours you'll have to put in you're going to be rudely surprised. There are some pretty legit concerns about the reductions in work hours for trainees, but that's for another thread.

Oh, and try telling someone working 2-3 minimum wage jobs that you're worried about working so hard "just to make ends meet and survive" as a training physician. I think they'll disagree with your assessment.

3. This depends on your sample. All of the academic physicians I work with love their jobs.

Thanks for all the replies everyone.

To the 110% thing, it's hard for me to buy into that. I couldn't imagine dedicating my life to something without carefully weighing out the cost and what it will take. How can you know you are so sure of something without even doing the research? And it is this research that I have done that has made me have some doubt, which I believe is healthy.

I do believe I will probably end up in medicine, but I want to start medical school knowing exactly what I am getting into, or at least try to know.

I guess my main question to everyone is, how do you guys cope with these issues (if they apply to you). Do you just ignore the elephant in the room and focus on how amazing medicine is?

Maybe we will get lucky and have either a conservative some how stop all these bureaucratic issues, or have a liberal who lowers the cost of medical school haha.

Honestly this **** just doesn't bother me much. The debt is not ideal but I know I'll be able to pay it off without too much trouble in the long run (compared to friends of mine with undergrad debt and grad school debt who are in the education field and will be paying off their loans for their entire careers). I view long hours as unavoidable if you want to be a successful professional, and I'm glad to be spending those long hours doing something I'm excited about.

I'm only a first year student so this is all subject to change, but that's my two cents on these issues at this stage.

 

[getdown]

All BS aside. Every job is going to suck in its own way. Every job is going to have days where it's just horrible and makes you not want to come back. Every job entails sacrifice. There is NO perfect job where you get paid tons of money for doing diddly **** (except maybe the CEOs of financial banks). So the question becomes do you see yourself toiling in a meaningless career or would you rather be making a difference. Yes, medicine is hard and you'll have to make sacrifices but only you can answer that question. The fact that you're on this board means you've already figured out what those challenges are. Now, you just have to ask yourself if you can do it. If you can't see yourself doing it, than don't do it.

 

[da8s0859q]

Either you are, or you are not a physician.

While a resident, I am a physician nonetheless, license and NPI number and all, and I know a useless post when I see one.

1. Debt, Debt, Debt. My guess is that I will end up with around 250k in debt (I have 25k from under grand). I hear of interest rates as high 8%, yikes! This leads to wonder if this is a smart financial decision, you know, to be in debt until I am 45ish?

2. Time away from family.

3. I have talked to countless physicians and I would say about 10% of them tell me to go for it, 40% tell me they won't say either way, 25% tell me not to do it, and the rest beg me not do it. This is a big deal in my eyes, if my heroes are telling me to look into other things then maybe they are right?

Smart man. Worrying about these things up front.

1. Yup, it's expensive. In exchange, you have almost unparalleled job security in many specialties with a notable earning potential. There are also the intangibles. You have to make an educated guess as to whether you think it will be worth it for you long-term.

2. A very real concern, no matter what the raging idealists of SDN, complete with staff of Asclepius posters over their beds and busts of Sir William Osler himself adorning their bathroom counters, will tell you. Choose your specialty wisely. I will say that there is an ongoing shift in medicine, particularly with medical students, towards things that are family- and lifestyle-friendly. This is a significant part of why my own specialty, emergency medicine, has had such a boom in applications over the last few years.

3. No denying that there are lots of embittered docs out there, but consider your source(s), their specialties, and their working environments. There are still lots of physicians who are glad they're doing what they're doing.