General Is my daughter making a mistake with AMC?

[lord999]

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Hello,

Thank you for offering this private space. My daughter recently was accepted to the Union/AMC BSMD program. She is thrilled because she liked Union for undergrad and she is just ecstatic that she will have a med school spot waiting for her. I was thrilled too until I started reading about how AMC is low ranked. I never knew that was an issue for US medical schools. We have no experience in this.

Can you please let me know whether and in what way going to AMC would hamper her future? She does not seek to go into academic medicine. But I don't think she knows what specialty she wants. She also really likes research and I am reading that there isn't much at AMC.

We will need to make this decision quickly. Union/AMC vs. regular undergrad. Just to be clear, she is not worried. I am the one who is scared she is making a big mistake.

Thank you so much.

Well, congratulations, this is actually a good problem to have, although the anxiety is real.

I'll let @Goro, @Winged Scapula, or some of the other medical faculty answer as well, but I have a starting take based on having to advise MD's switching from practice into research and being one of the MSTP adcom members at my institution.

Many of us in academic medicine did not exactly make conscious decisions to make that a priority until well into our training. There is one group that are clear exceptions, those who go for the Medical Scientist Training Program (MSTP) route, where you are evaluated for both admission to MD and a research PhD. Many of us (myself included who initially opted for nuclear pharmacy practice) did not really have a good idea on what they wanted to specialize in (if at all) during the classroom part of our training (and for medicine, that is usually the first two professional years). When your daughter goes to her third year rotations, she will work and experience many different practices if she chooses well, and usually that determination is made after working on a trial basis during her clerkship third and fourth years. I actually am usually afraid for a medical student who "knows" exactly what practice specialty or research specialty they want before they have experience. I have found that the rule is that without experience, candidates do not know themselves and their own true preferences.

So, I would not "worry" about your daughter not knowing her specialty or whether or not research is for her (especially academic medicine) as she is still in high school though admitted to the track. In fact, I would recommend that she keep an open mind. Breathe easy, there will be time enough for those professional life course selections.

Now, there's a couple of things. Albany actually does some good research, but they are specialized rather than generalized. If your daughter wants to switch to the MD/PhD track, they partner with other institutions, but they also have competent immunology and cancer research departments. AMC does not have the breath of a Research I institution, but really, if your daughter wants to go through the hardcore research training experience, there will be opportunities postgraduation and it is not uncommon for physicians to go into PhD training afterwards or pursue research fellowships at major institutions (NIH is a prime sponsor, the Robert W Johnson Foundation is another that specializes in physician to physician-scientist conversion). There are many places that would be absolutely delighted to accept a qualified physician into their training programs given interest and time. The other medical faculty may have other opinions, but I feel that there are many opportunities for physicians to do research afterward. (I'm actually more concerned about the ones that promised to do research abandoning it for pure practice due to financial and lower intensity work concerns than not matching interested physicians with research opportunities at various levels of commitment from practice + research patients to full Principal Investigator.)

I am not going to comment on the ranking on the chances of residency. That is controversial, and everyone has their opinion, and I am not a physician. I can say though for the NIH and my home institution that they honestly do not care for their residencies and fellowships as long as the graduate is US-trained, their statistics are reasonable, and they are not psychologically too defective or extreme.

 

[Goro]

Albany is a fine school.

 

[MusicDOc124]

Thank you both for the replies. Thank you especially for that wonderful explanation of how an MD can transition to research later if she chooses. That is very comforting. Would anyone be able to comment on the chances for residency choices? Is there somewhere else I can look for that?

Thank you so much.

Residency chances will depend a lot on USMLE Step 1 board scores which she won't take until after her 2nd year of medical school is complete. There are other factors that also depend on the field to which she'd apply such as research, exposure to the field, networking at conferences, away/audition/elective rotations, performance on 3rd year rotations, and letters of recommendation to name a few.

 

[MusicDOc124]

Thank you. Does the med school and its ranking factor into this or is it all based on the student's work?

It's largely based on the students work. If the student performs well, then doors open. If the student performs poorly, those doors close.

 

[MusicDOc124]

^ I'll also add/re-iterate what @lord999 said that opinions will differ on this, and that these have been my observations only.

 

[MusicDOc124]

Thank you so much for your time. Is there a good thread where people have explained their thinking on this? My daughter is very set on going through the Union/AMC route. I'm just looking for reassurance that she isn't closing any doors on herself or making things much harder by doing this. If I understand you and goro, she seems to be making a good choice. Do agree? Would you advise someone to take this route?

There are no specific threads that I”m acutely aware of that discuss this, but rather come up in passing in a variety of threads.

I agree... I think that if she really wants this, and is very happy with the undergrad institution, she’s better off than most. As goro pointed out, Albany is a good school, and as you said, she really liked the undergrad school.

Applying to med school is competitive, stressful, and costly, and there are no guarantees. Having this guarantee will alleviate the competitive, stress, and cost. She will have a better senior/final year of college not having to stress over this. Acceptance rates are small. While your daughter may very well be competitive and have a shot at many schools, something is to be said for not having to deal with the process.

 

[lord999]

There are no specific threads that I”m acutely aware of that discuss this, but rather come up in passing in a variety of threads.

I agree... I think that if she really wants this, and is very happy with the undergrad institution, she’s better off than most. As goro pointed out, Albany is a good school, and as you said, she really liked the undergrad school.

Applying to med school is competitive, stressful, and costly, and there are no guarantees. Having this guarantee will alleviate the competitive, stress, and cost. She will have a better senior/final year of college not having to stress over this. Acceptance rates are small. While your daughter may very well be competitive and have a shot at many schools, something is to be said for not having to deal with the process.

I will play devil's advocate (because during my time as Assoc. Dean of Students, this occurs). I agree with @MusicDOc124 and add two warnings:

1. Many people change their majors within the first two years of undergraduate studies. I do not know if you yourself are university education, but much of my academic advising ends up being some form of "What Color Is My Parachute?" in terms of trying to match skills and interests to the market's desired skills and interests. Going into medicine is not an easy course, and there are some real tough times. Your daughter will have to have the maturity to differentiate between the difficult times and whether or not she wants to continue walking the path at all. There is no short answer for this, that is why the forum originally existed, as a support network for those of us walking that path!

2. At all levels, including physicians and all other medical professionals who have been in practice for years, I am someone designated in the federal agency I work for to find alternate roles for physicians who want something else either due to boredom or burning out, which I would say for where I work is somewhere between 40% and 60% (officially, it is no less than 35% from the reports sent to Congress). Even researchers from time-to-time have to take a career refresher, and that is why there is a specific series (K-grant) for midcareer refreshers. My warning here is that the practice that you train for is not just the practice that you are going to do, and that the practice that is going to be is not going to just be the practice that you are doing. Your daughter will have to have some grounding to keep pace with the changes and challenges in and out of the office, and this is a big commitment though I still offer my congratulations on your daughter's achievement thus far. That said, she has a long way to go still.