Is my friend done for.

[Edx102$]

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Posting for a friend who does not want to make his own SDN acct. Basically, he was taking a weekend trip to a lake town in michigan. He and his friends all had some marijuana in the car totalling to an amount > what is allowed recreationally in michigan. Long story short they got pulled over, officer saw the marijuana, asked whos it was and, it being legal, my friend spoke up and claimed his right away while the other were scared and refused to admit to possessing any. As a result my friend got a misdemeanor possession charge even though his actual personal amount was fully legal. This is his second ticket after a drinking ticket 3 years ago as a freshman. Did his friends screw his chances?

 

[LizzyM]

Yes.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

1 bad choice, sometimes can be overlooked. 2 bad choices showing poor judgement, they are done for the near term. An SMP, or post bac with a few years of clean record could turn things around, however this is just my opinion.

 

[Edx102$]

1 bad choice, sometimes can be overlooked. 2 bad choices showing poor judgement, they are done for the near term. An SMP, or post bac with a few years of clean record could turn things around, however this is just my opinion.

Why would this be considered a bad choice though? his actions were entirely legal. The amount actually belonging to him was legal but since nobody else claimed theirs out of fear (they weren't sure of the laws, but my friend- being responsible- was), he was default in possesion of the misdemeanor amount.

 

[okayyyalx]

Why would this be considered a bad choice though? his actions were entirely legal. The amount actually belonging to him was legal but since nobody else claimed theirs out of fear (they weren't sure of the laws, but my friend- being responsible- was), he was default in possesion of the misdemeanor amount.

It's a bad choice because he received a misdemeanor, which won't be looked very greatly upon by adcoms

 

[zorcandpals]

Your poor friend should have remained silent.

He should probably lawyer up and try and fight it, at least get it down to an infraction or something. I hope he's not applying this cycle.

 

[Goro]

Why would this be considered a bad choice though? his actions were entirely legal. The amount actually belonging to him was legal but since nobody else claimed theirs out of fear (they weren't sure of the laws, but my friend- being responsible- was), he was default in possesion of the misdemeanor amount.

Legal or not, the friend didn't learn from past mistakes.

BTW, pot is still illegal at the Federal level, and can get you fired from residency

Your friend also needs better friends.

 

[KeViN2502]

It doesn't matter if it's legal or not, if you get a misdemeanor, you are done. To make things worse, this is even his second time, so... Your friend shouldn't claim that

 

[TwoHighways]

Anyone else skeptical all of these “my friend” threads?

Your “friend” might consider a stint in the military to offset the two misdemeanors and demonstrate he’s sorted himself out.

 

[deleted966837]

Anyone else skeptical all of these “my friend” threads?

Actually my friend was wondering the same thing.

 

[DrStephennmnm]

Why would this be considered a bad choice though? his actions were entirely legal. The amount actually belonging to him was legal but since nobody else claimed theirs out of fear (they weren't sure of the laws, but my friend- being responsible- was), he was default in possesion of the misdemeanor amount.

Because no one will believe your story

 

[DrStephennmnm]

Anyone else skeptical all of these “my friend” threads?

Your “friend” might consider a stint in the military to offset the two misdemeanors and demonstrate he’s sorted himself out.

Hmmmm after not learning after one mistake you want to give this guy a gun????

 

[Angus Avagadro]

Why would this be considered a bad choice though? his actions were entirely legal. The amount actually belonging to him was legal but since nobody else claimed theirs out of fear (they weren't sure of the laws, but my friend- being responsible- was), he was default in possesion of the misdemeanor amount.

@Goro said it best.

 

[openstage]

Getting into a medical school is insanely tough as it is, without having 2 strikes against you. This doesn’t show good common sense for someone who would need to be responsible for the care of others in the future.

 

[deleted804295]

There is no such as legal weed. It is against federal law despite what states may pass. This is enforced by DEA the same organization that oversees controlled substances for physicians.

No such thing as legal weed? My trip to Colorado says otherwise. The streets *stunk* in downtown Denver!!

If this is honestly true could someone with more knowledge make a thread informing pre-meds of this?

 

[lumya]

No such thing as legal weed? My trip to Colorado says otherwise. The streets *stunk* in downtown Denver!!

If this is honestly true could someone with more knowledge make a thread informing pre-meds of this?

I am not a lawyer so please consult one if you ever find yourself in a similar position.

Weed is legal in some states because those states have the discretion on what they prosecute or don’t prosecute. That is why there is usually a limit on how much weed a person can have and be fine. Most states where it is legal, still prosecute for intent to distribute because that is where they draw the line in what part of the regulation they choose to enforce. US v Booker (2005) stated that the federal guidelines for prosecution of marijuana possession is advisory, not required of states (which is why they have discretion). However, despite states being able to choose to not prosecute, federal government can choose to prosecute and essentially override the state (Gonzales v Raich).

Additionally, despite what a state is willing to prosecute, a company (or hospital) still sets their own guidelines regarding drug/alcohol policy and you can be fired if you violate policy.

Edit: In the case here, the friend isn’t in trouble for using weed, they are in trouble for having too much weed for one person which is 100% illegal even in legal states.

Edit 2 for clarification because this thread is still going on: Weed is illegally federally. In states like Colorado and California, it’s not legal so much as it is not illegal. You are still breaking federal laws, your local DA is just choosing to not prosecute.

 

[RangerBob]

Physicians are held to a higher standard than most others, and rightly so, given our responsibilities. The same could be said for our military leadership, another profession with a very high level of responsibility (as well as respect from the public).

Our actions have consequences, fair or not, as I know I wasn’t all that smart in high school. Fortunately I was risk-averse and fairy well behaved. Most people believe in second chances. Third chances are a tougher sell. But the friend could always try after there is some distance from the episode. But they should prep for their backup plan.

 

[Edx102$]

Thank you to everyone on this thread for the info. On a personal note, what a sad world we live in where the government has THIS much control in our lives to the point where using some benign, natural, drug, or drinking before an arbitrary age of 21 can keep you from your dream career. Cheers.

 

[Goro]

Thank you to everyone on this thread for the info. On a personal note, what a sad world we live in where the government has THIS much control in our lives to the point where using some benign, natural, drug, or drinking before an arbitrary age of 21 can keep you from your dream career. Cheers.

I like to point out to my 17 year old that we're always one bad decision away from disaster, and also that actions have consequences. Oddly, my 14 year old daughter gets this while the boy doesn't.

Good luck with your Plan B.

 

[Hopeful101]

Thank you to everyone on this thread for the info. On a personal note, what a sad world we live in where the government has THIS much control in our lives to the point where using some benign, natural, drug, or drinking before an arbitrary age of 21 can keep you from your dream career. Cheers.

It's not a dream career anyways. It's stuffy, elitist, and way more work than its worth.

 

[Cosmopolitan96]

Lost Residency Spot

I'm going to be very transparent. I was supposed to begin my residency position soon, however, I failed my pre-employment hair follicle examination, because I tested positive for cannabis. They informed me yesterday that they decided to terminate my contract due to the failed pre employment drug...

forums.studentdoctor.net

I think this thread is a good example of how, just because weed is “legal” does not mean there aren’t consequences for using it, fair or not. Sadly, circumstances like these are why schools don’t risk it on applicants with a history

 

[deleted480308]

Why would this be considered a bad choice though? his actions were entirely legal. The amount actually belonging to him was legal but since nobody else claimed theirs out of fear (they weren't sure of the laws, but my friend- being responsible- was), he was default in possesion of the misdemeanor amount.

it’s not legal

DANGIT kids, stop throwing away a career over weed

No such thing as legal weed? My trip to Colorado says otherwise. The streets *stunk* in downtown Denver!!

If this is honestly true could someone with more knowledge make a thread informing pre-meds of this?

nope. Not legal

Thank you to everyone on this thread for the info. On a personal note, what a sad world we live in where the government has THIS much control in our lives to the point where using some benign, natural, drug, or drinking before an arbitrary age of 21 can keep you from your dream career. Cheers.

if only you had some kind of warning or way to predict this [/sarcasm]

Lost Residency Spot

I'm going to be very transparent. I was supposed to begin my residency position soon, however, I failed my pre-employment hair follicle examination, because I tested positive for cannabis. They informed me yesterday that they decided to terminate my contract due to the failed pre employment drug...

forums.studentdoctor.net

I think this thread is a good example of how, just because weed is “legal” does not mean there aren’t consequences for using it, fair or not. Sadly, circumstances like these are why schools don’t risk it on applicants with a history

not legal

 

[Mass Effect]

Posting for a friend who does not want to make his own SDN acct. Basically, he was taking a weekend trip to a lake town in michigan. He and his friends all had some marijuana in the car totalling to an amount > what is allowed recreationally in michigan. Long story short they got pulled over, officer saw the marijuana, asked whos it was and, it being legal, my friend spoke up and claimed his right away while the other were scared and refused to admit to possessing any. As a result my friend got a misdemeanor possession charge even though his actual personal amount was fully legal. This is his second ticket after a drinking ticket 3 years ago as a freshman. Did his friends screw his chances?

No, he screwed his own chances.

 

[Mass Effect]

Thank you to everyone on this thread for the info. On a personal note, what a sad world we live in where the government has THIS much control in our lives to the point where using some benign, natural, drug, or drinking before an arbitrary age of 21 can keep you from your dream career. Cheers.

Pot is NOT benign. You're about to enter into the medical field. Let's quit believing nonsense and do our own research. As a psychiatrist, I see the effects of people thinking pot is benign in my clinic/hospital everyday.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

Goro and others like to act very high and mighty nowadays. Sorry about your friend, that really is a tough situation to get into. His future isn't done yet he needs to lawyer up and likely get it reduced to a ticket which is much easier to explain. Yes, weed is illegal federally but these dinguses on SDN are just keyboard warriors who think they're better than you and your friend. **** em, he just needs a few years of good behavior and he'll be fine.

Speaking from experience or are you just trying to be supportive? Residencies and med schools have plenty of qualified applicants who dont show poor judgement. Why should they accept any more risk than they need to?

 

[Mad Jack]

Posting for a friend who does not want to make his own SDN acct. Basically, he was taking a weekend trip to a lake town in michigan. He and his friends all had some marijuana in the car totalling to an amount > what is allowed recreationally in michigan. Long story short they got pulled over, officer saw the marijuana, asked whos it was and, it being legal, my friend spoke up and claimed his right away while the other were scared and refused to admit to possessing any. As a result my friend got a misdemeanor possession charge even though his actual personal amount was fully legal. This is his second ticket after a drinking ticket 3 years ago as a freshman. Did his friends screw his chances?

The combination of the DUI and the misdemeanor drug charge is lethal

 

[Mad Jack]

Goro and others like to act very high and mighty nowadays. Sorry about your friend, that really is a tough situation to get into. His future isn't done yet he needs to lawyer up and likely get it reduced to a ticket which is much easier to explain. Yes, weed is illegal federally but these dinguses on SDN are just keyboard warriors who think they're better than you and your friend. **** em, he just needs a few years of good behavior and he'll be fine.

We're people who are actually involved in admissions and vetting students. If this application came across my desk, it isn't about being "high and mighty." It's about an established pattern of behavior. I see no reason to believe that a person who is using marijuana and drinking while driving will not be engaging in these same behaviors in medical school and beyond. Substance use is the biggest killer of resident careers, hands down, and is the most common reason I've seen residents fired and physician licenses suspended. Past behavior is most indicative of future behavior. If this individual went several years out and had a stellar resume after five plus years of no issues, I'd give them a shot. At this time, however, they would have a snowball's chance in hell

 

[Mad Jack]

There is no such thing as legal weed. It is against federal law despite what states may pass. This is enforced by DEA the same organization that oversees controlled substances for physicians.

And even if it is legal, most employers will fire you for a positive UDS, and you would certainly be terminated from medical school or residency for the same. Memory, coordination, and reaction times are adversely impacted by marijuana use in a manner that extends beyond the initial period of intoxication which is variable based upon the individual and the amount ingested. Furthermore acute intoxication versus lingering metabolites can't be differentiated by a basic UDS. Employers don't want to take on the risk of an employee who may or may not be acutely intoxicated having an adverse event when they have it on file that they had a positive UDS, as there is no way for them to prove the employee was not suffering from acute or chronic effects of marijuana use, which creates enormous liability

 

[Angus Avagadro]

And even if it is legal, most employers will fire you for a positive UDS, and you would certainly be terminated from medical school or residency for the same. Memory, coordination, and reaction times are adversely impacted by marijuana use in a manner that extends beyond the initial period of intoxication which is variable based upon the individual and the amount ingested. Furthermore acute intoxication versus lingering metabolites can't be differentiated by a basic UDS. Employers don't want to take on the risk of an employee who may or may not be acutely intoxicated having an adverse event when they have it on file that they had a positive UDS, as there is no way for them to prove the employee was not suffering from acute or chronic effects of marijuana use, which creates enormous liability

Thanks for posting this. This should be made a sticky and all pre meds and med students would benefit from reading it.

 

[medicineisforme]

I'm no expert here but your friend should try for expungement for the pot and also depending on location (not sure if location of where it occurred or state of residence) for the minor dui look into how long until that is removed from the record. Even with these your friend has to seriously understand and commit to not doing anything stupid or legally risky ever again otherwise he is seriously done for. MD is one of the least forgiving fields, but in general when applying for jobs etc he'll still face struggles because of this. In the mean time if your friend is accepted for expungement for the pot then during this period while he is awaiting his record to be cleared he should seriously make good use of the time; join a research or lab team, become a TA, work as a phlebotomist, etc... Also your friend needs to consider because of this extra time and effort is he willing to go through all of this to go to medical school.

Another option, as was mentioned, is joining the military, and maybe becoming a physician through there - I don't know if that is an option?

 

[deleted966164]

Also. Bath salts. Really bad for ya...

 

[Osminog]

Talk to your lawyer and try to lessen the drug charge, and also try to get the first ticket infraction (being underage at a bar) expunged. If you can avoid the misdemeanor, you’re not completely dead in the water.

 

[confuzzled10]

Your friend's chances are not good to be honest. That's 2 bad choices on record. Either way, try to get that pot charge to be dismissed or diminished. If he gets his **** together, it's not late...he can still become a doctor. Don't let anyone lie to you, there are plenty of drugies in medschool...(half of my class does cocaine regularly). They're just really good at hiding it during application and interview.

 

[TwoHighways]

Your friend's chances are not good to be honest. That's 2 bad choices on record. Either way, try to get that pot charge to be dismissed or diminished. If he gets his **** together, it's not late...he can still become a doctor. Don't let anyone lie to you, there are plenty of drugies in medschool...(half of my class does cocaine regularly). They're just really good at hiding it during application and interview.

Really?

 

[deleted1005514]

there are plenty of drugies in medschool...(half of my class does cocaine regularly). They're just really good at hiding it during application and interview.

Scary, I hope that's not true!

 

[Hopeful101]

Scary, I hope that's not true!

definitely alot of adderol

 

[Mad Jack]

Really?

Stimulant use is exceedingly common. Honestly they should randomly drug test medical students to discourage this, as people that start using in medical school are likely to rely on substances in residency as well which obviously isn't a good thing when lives are on the line

 

[deleted1005514]

definitely alot of adderol

Yeah, I've seen that in undergrad/grad school...haven't run into it in med school yet, but I wouldn't doubt it. It's not the same as cocaine though, although they are similar. Either way, drug abuse is bad, and I wish there wasn't so much pressure to be perfect that students resort to substance abuse in order to achieve it.

 

[Goro]

Goro and others like to act very high and mighty nowadays. Sorry about your friend, that really is a tough situation to get into. His future isn't done yet he needs to lawyer up and likely get it reduced to a ticket which is much easier to explain. Yes, weed is illegal federally but these dinguses on SDN are just keyboard warriors who think they're better than you and your friend. **** em, he just needs a few years of good behavior and he'll be fine.

We're not making the news, just reporting it.

The OP (or his "friend") are facing this mindset from Adcoms:
1) Is this the sort of person we want in our Class?
2) With so many other qualified applicants who haven't gotten into trouble (twice!), why should we take a risk on this person?

This isn't a power trip for us; we take our jobs very seriously, because we're the last barrier between you and patients.

High and mighty indeed.

 

[ERK123]

I do not believe that half of a medical school class is using cocaine regularly or even Adderall. While I don’t think it is super uncommon, people tend to rationalize their own use or their peer groups use by believing that everyone else is doing it.

As for this post, if the story is true about his reason for the chargers being due to his friends lying then he really needs to lawyer up. While I understand all the talk in this thread about weed being illegal federally, this is not the law this person is being accused of breaking. They are being accused of breaking a law they did not break and should fight vigorously against the charge. I honestly don’t know where this leaves them in their path to become a doctor, but I would worry about that after hopefully getting this case dismissed. Afterwards, they can contemplate the future.

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

definitely alot of adderol

Damn that adderol

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

I do not believe that half of a medical school class is using cocaine regularly or even Adderall. While I don’t think it is super uncommon, people tend to rationalize their own use or their peer groups use by believing that everyone else is doing it.

As for this post, if the story is true about his reason for the chargers being due to his friends lying then he really needs to lawyer up. While I understand all the talk in this thread about weed being illegal federally, this is not the law this person is being accused of breaking. They are being accused of breaking a law they did not break and should fight vigorously against the charge. I honestly don’t know where this leaves them in their path to become a doctor, but I would worry about that after hopefully getting this case dismissed. Afterwards, they can contemplate the future.

Yeah the "it's not my weed it was my friends" argument after already admitting to possession of all of the marijuana usually doesn't go over too well. But he's welcome to show up for a court date in Michigan to challenge the ticket and see what the judge has to say about it. If OP's "friend" has already paid the fine though, that comes with a guilty plea (just like a speeding ticket where you're technically pleading guilty to the violation), so if that's happened already he can't exactly go back on it.

 

[confuzzled10]

Really?

Scary, I hope that's not true!

Stimulant use is exceedingly common. Honestly they should randomly drug test medical students to discourage this, as people that start using in medical school are likely to rely on substances in residency as well which obviously isn't a good thing when lives are on the line

I do not believe that half of a medical school class is using cocaine regularly or even Adderall. While I don’t think it is super uncommon, people tend to rationalize their own use or their peer groups use by believing that everyone else is doing it.

I was obviously exaggerating when I said half my class, but there are a good 7 students that I know for sure use cocaine on the regular. As far as adderall, pretty sure a majority of students use it. I was shocked. To be honest, a lot of medschool has shocked me. Maybe I was just in my little own bubble in undergrad, but I've seen more cheating and more cocaine use in medical school than I have in undergrad. I'm hoping it's maybe because I was sheltered in undergrad. I went to a class party with my wife and was surprised to see a classmate casually asking me to do cocaine with her. They're still functional students on rotations...so whatever, I guess.

 

[jhmmd]

Hmmmm after not learning after one mistake you want to give this guy a gun????

I think that that post was facetious

 

[ERK123]

I was obviously exaggerating when I said half my class, but there are a good 7 students that I know for sure use cocaine on the regular. As far as adderall, pretty sure a majority of students use it. I was shocked. To be honest, a lot of medschool has shocked me. Maybe I was just in my little own bubble in undergrad, but I've seen more cheating and more cocaine use in medical school than I have in undergrad. I'm hoping it's maybe because I was sheltered in undergrad. I went to a class party with my wife and was surprised to see a classmate casually asking me to do cocaine with her. They're still functional students on rotations...so whatever, I guess.

I saw more than my fair share of cocaine and Adderall use before medical school so maybe the amount I have heard about in medical school just doesn’t strike me as that prolific. I know people who used both and if you were to ask them how many people in our class use stimulants they would say somewhere between 50-80%. I also know people who have never touched that stuff and if you were to ask them how many people in our class use stimulants they would say 5-10%. I find it very difficult to get a good feel on what the real number actually is.

 

[jhmmd]

I saw more than my fair share of cocaine and Adderall use before medical school so maybe the amount I have heard about in medical school just doesn’t strike me as that prolific. I know people who used both and if you were to ask them how many people in our class use stimulants they would say somewhere between 50-80%. I also know people who have never touched that stuff and if you were to ask them how many people in our class use stimulants they would say 5-10%. I find it very difficult to get a good feel on what the real number actually is.

Cocaine and med school don't usually mix, bro

 

[TwoHighways]

What happened to good ole fashioned caffeine?

 

[jhmmd]

COFFEE COFFEE COFFEE, all day long. I LIKE COFFEE!

/thread

 

[ERK123]

Cocaine and med school don't usually mix, bro

It will likely catch up with them one day with some combination of divorce, legal consequences, or rehab. If they are lucky they will do the third one before the first two, but regardless I hope they eventually fix what is missing in themselves.

 

[jhmmd]

It will likely catch up with them one day with some combination of divorce, legal consequences, or rehab. If they are lucky they will do the third one before the first two, but regardless I hope they eventually fix what is missing in themselves.

Posting for a friend who does not want to make his own SDN acct. Basically, he was taking a weekend trip to a lake town in michigan. He and his friends all had some marijuana in the car totalling to an amount > what is allowed recreationally in michigan. Long story short they got pulled over, officer saw the marijuana, asked whos it was and, it being legal, my friend spoke up and claimed his right away while the other were scared and refused to admit to possessing any. As a result my friend got a misdemeanor possession charge even though his actual personal amount was fully legal. This is his second ticket after a drinking ticket 3 years ago as a freshman. Did his friends screw his chances?

Where are you getting this? I get the rehab part, and the legal consequences, but who said that OP was in a relationship???