Is my MCAT good enough for top 5 schools in context of everything else?

[seadogoverseas]

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Hi everyone,

My primary question is two-fold, which is 1. How many times can one take the MCAT before it starts having a negative impact; 2. Is my score good enough right now for top 5 schools in context of everything else?

A bit of stats:

I come from a top 1-10 university depending on the ranking. I'm applying to exclusively MD/PhD programs (next spring for admission to 2015 though I'm graduating in 2014; taking a gap year).

Major: Double in Chemistry and Biology

GPA: 3.98

Research: 4 years, 2 thesis, 3 publications including 2 first author; one summer at MGH.

Letters of rec: 5 excellent ones (2 research, 1 science, 1 English, 1 EC), potentially 1 more.

Major awards: Barry Goldwater Scholar, a few more of the like.

ECs: Lots of leadership including work in South Africa relevant to my research. Winner of a highly influential public service award. Several hours of clinical shadowing (100+) by the end of the summer. Several poster and oral presentations. A well-reviewed TA for 8 class. Etc.

The problem comes with the MCAT. I took the exam 2 times, within three weeks of each other, meaning I did not see my first score before taking it the second time. At that time, I was still unsure about whether I wanted to go to medical school, and was flustered by the exam the first time and decided to take it again immediately just to show to myself I could do better. I didn't really prepare for the exam to any major extent both times, though I was sick the first time. Bottom line, I went in fairly blind both times and thought that if I get a good enough score, then I will consider an MD. My scores are:

First time: 33 (12-9-12)
Second time: 36 (14-9-13)

Unfortunately, my verbal was consistently low. I don't know if it's worth retaking a third time, assuming I'm able to do a lot better on verbal (aiming 11+ at least) and that I'm able to maintain a 13-15 range for PS and BS. Or is 36 overall, even with a low verbal, good enough for some of the very top MD/PhD programs? I'm more of a PhD candidate at this point than an MD (though I have strong motivation for the MD as well), and I feel like I have a great shot at many PhD programs, so I'm not going to compromise the PhD aspect extensively for the additional MD.

Thanks in advance!

 

[whatever5]

I don't know dude, I'd say with those stats it's a long shot to get waitlisted at a carribean school.

 

[BABSstudent]

Hi everyone,

My primary question is two-fold, which is 1. How many times can one take the MCAT before it starts having a negative impact; 2. Is my score good enough right now for top 5 schools in context of everything else?

A bit of stats:

I come from a top 1-10 university depending on the ranking. I'm applying to exclusively MD/PhD programs (next spring for admission to 2015 though I'm graduating in 2014; taking a gap year).

Major: Double in Chemistry and Biology

GPA: 3.98

Research: 4 years, 2 thesis, 3 publications including 2 first author; one summer at MGH.

Letters of rec: 5 excellent ones (2 research, 1 science, 1 English, 1 EC), potentially 1 more.

Major awards: Barry Goldwater Scholar, a few more of the like.

ECs: Lots of leadership including work in South Africa relevant to my research. Winner of a highly influential public service award. Several hours of clinical shadowing (100+) by the end of the summer. Several poster and oral presentations. A well-reviewed TA for 8 class. Etc.

The problem comes with the MCAT. I took the exam 2 times, within three weeks of each other, meaning I did not see my first score before taking it the second time. At that time, I was still unsure about whether I wanted to go to medical school, and was flustered by the exam the first time and decided to take it again immediately just to show to myself I could do better. I didn't really prepare for the exam to any major extent both times, though I was sick the first time. Bottom line, I went in fairly blind both times and thought that if I get a good enough score, then I will consider an MD. My scores are:

First time: 33 (12-9-12)
Second time: 36 (14-9-13)

Unfortunately, my verbal was consistently low. I don't know if it's worth retaking a third time, assuming I'm able to do a lot better on verbal (aiming 11+ at least) and that I'm able to maintain a 13-15 range for PS and BS. Or is 36 overall, even with a low verbal, good enough for some of the very top MD/PhD programs? I'm more of a PhD candidate at this point than an MD (though I have strong motivation for the MD as well), and I feel like I have a great shot at many PhD programs, so I'm not going to compromise the PhD aspect extensively for the additional MD.

Thanks in advance!

You will learn that this process has a lot of luck involved. I had a friend get rejected from schools he was perfectly qualified for and wanted to attend but yet was accepted to Harvard on a full ride. When asked how did he do it, he says he got lucky with who reviewed his application and did the interview. He is just being modest, but there is some truth to that.

If you want an MD/PhD, then the publications and research experience will speak for itself. If you apply to more than just the top 10 schools, I guarantee you will get an interview at multiple places. The top 10 schools are a little more difficult to predict your chances at.

 

[Platonic]

These are the sorts of posts that scare the crap out of most premeds visiting these forums. A "can I get in" post from someone with excellent grades, excellent EC's, and a 33+36 on the MCAT without studying. LOL. You will be fine. Although I find it a little interesting that someone who has demonstrated such dedication throughout their academic career would take the MCAT without preparing for it. Your scores are very good (I'm not on any adcom, but I bet those scores should be competitive at pretty much any school and dual degree program), but they would have been even better with a little bit of preparation. Although your weakness seems to be verbal reasoning, and that section tends to not improve very much with preparation. Looking at your two tests, your science sections improved, but verbal didn't. I would not take the test again if I were you. There's a risk of scoring another 9 or lower in verbal. And even if you did improve, a third attempt after a 36 probably won't mean much. Since you are MD/PhD, your research will probably matter more than MCAT anyway.

 

[seadogoverseas]

Thanks for the response everyone. I was not entirely sure I wanted to apply for medical school at the time I took the exams and was not very focused (actually a little annoyed I had to read such darn passages on the verbal that I had absolutely no interest in and talking myself out of applying while taking the exam). Is taking a third time, assuming a significant improvement, a negative sign, especially if they can see that the first two exams are within 3 weeks of each other (meaning I did not get my first score before I took the second one) and the third time is nearly a year later? Can I explain this, or should I explain this, on my application? I'd appreciate any comments. Thanks!

 

[SN12357]

You do not need to retake the test, and if you do, you'll look like a clueless d-bag. There's also a strong argument to be made that above a 36 things very much enter chance range (probably everyone who scores 36+ is capable of scoring between 36 and 40 depending on the day).

You have phenomenal extracurriculars and two first author papers. You are a great applicant with excellent stats. Smack your neurotic inner insecure ******* upside the head, shut it up, apply and be happy. I know multiple people who got MD-PhD with lower MCAT and GPA because their research background was so good (and multiple first authors means yours is at that calibre)

However if your desperation looking for validation here is any indication, it's possible you're a weak interview. Get some feedback on that if you can. It's the only thing left that COULD be a weakness in your application.

Edit to say: Absolutely nothing in the world will give you 100% guarantee of a Top 5 school. Nothing. There is a strong element of chance in the game for everyone. It's better to make your peace with that fact and realistically assess what's actually worth your time. A third run at the MCAT when you've already got a 36 is....not.

 

[mcloaf]

I think you'll get in somewhere. I also think focusing on top 5 schools is dumb. Are you going to get a better education at Penn, which is tied for 4th this year, than Yale, which is ranked 7?

 

[ChemEngMD]

I think you're an ideal candidate for a top PhD program (I'm currently a graduate student, so I can speak to this somewhat).

My only concern would be that your clinical experience seems to be more of an afterthought in that you are only getting ~100 hours of experience in the summer that you are applying. As long as you can sell the story as to why you want the MD/PhD versus the PhD then I think you'll be fine. You definitely are statistically set, but the question I would ask is why MD/PhD and not PhD? If you can come up with a clear and concise answer in your personal statement then I think you'll be good.

Perhaps something along the lines of wanting the combination between the hardcore laboratory science of the PhD and the human side of the MD.

Anyways, congrats on all your authorships! Truly impressive for an undergraduate.

 

[inycepoo]

I think you'll get in somewhere. I also think focusing on top 5 schools is dumb. Are you going to get a better education at Penn, which is tied for 4th this year, than Yale, which is ranked 7?

You know what I'd say.

I kid, I kid. Great point to the OP as well. It's a crapshoot.

 

[seadogoverseas]

Thanks everyone. So bottom line don't retake but prepare for the interview. Since I'm taking a gap year, any suggestions on how to go about doing that?

 

[Laureatebarrel]

Why don't you post this in the What are my chances forum? I'm sure you have more feedback there to your answer.

 

[Josh7]

Your research is extremely strong. That will set you apart even in the MD/PhD pool. I have heard that admissions typically averages the two MCAT scores together so a 34.5 is still fairly competitive but far from the 37-39 average of top MD/PhD programs.

I think you've got a good chance. You'll get an interview for sure with that research experience and if your research interests align then you should get in somewhere.