Is one mediocre letter of recommendation enough to ruin your cycle?

[fogo]

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I’m currently sitting on four waitlists but fear that my cycle did not go as well as I had hoped because of a possibly bland letter. While my other letter writers were enthusiastic and effusive when I requested for one, this one biology professor simply said “I can write you a confidential letter for med school apps. Send me GPA/MCAT/etc. and feedback from TA for your discussion section.” I didn’t think much of it because I thought I had a good relationship with him, we exchanged hellos whenever I ran into him on campus, and I went to office hours diligently and got an A in the class. But I’m starting to think he just wrote an uninspiring letter and this may have tanked my chances this cycle. Could my suspicions be correct?

 

[KnightDoc]

I’m currently sitting on four waitlists but fear that my cycle did not go as well as I had hoped because of a possibly bland letter. While my other letter writers were enthusiastic and effusive when I requested for one, this one biology professor simply said “I can write you a confidential letter for med school apps. Send me GPA/MCAT/etc. and feedback from TA for your discussion section.” I didn’t think much of it because I thought I had a good relationship with him, we exchanged hellos whenever I ran into him on campus, and I went to office hours diligently and got an A in the class. But I’m starting to think he just wrote an uninspiring letter and this may have tanked my chances this cycle. Could my suspicions be correct?

Anything is possible, but, honestly, if you received IIs it's highly unlikely any of your LORs contained red flags. After that, it's your entire file being stacked up against everyone else's. It's natural to want to find one thing so you can fix it, but you're probably barking up the wrong tree after having so many IIs.

Bland letters are probably the norm. Outstanding letters are probably more rare, and maybe help a little. I have a feeling the only guarantee is that bad letters, which are probably pretty rare, almost certainly sink an application, prior to IIs. Maybe a few schools send out some IIs before looking at LORs in rare circumstances, but no way 4 out of 4 for you, if any.

 

[Goro]

I’m currently sitting on four waitlists but fear that my cycle did not go as well as I had hoped because of a possibly bland letter. While my other letter writers were enthusiastic and effusive when I requested for one, this one biology professor simply said “I can write you a confidential letter for med school apps. Send me GPA/MCAT/etc. and feedback from TA for your discussion section.” I didn’t think much of it because I thought I had a good relationship with him, we exchanged hellos whenever I ran into him on campus, and I went to office hours diligently and got an A in the class. But I’m starting to think he just wrote an uninspiring letter and this may have tanked my chances this cycle. Could my suspicions be correct?

A bland LOR is not the reason you're on four waitlists.

I suggest working on your interview skills

 

[fogo]

A bland LOR is not the reason you're on four waitlists.

I suggest working on your interview skills

I'm not sure my interview skills were that subpar. There were times I stumbled or needed time to collect my thoughts but overall I thought I did at least an okay job on the interviews. I was CA ORM however and I think that may have been a massive penalty. FWIW all my interviews were at T20s.

 

[Goro]

I'm not sure my interview skills were that subpar. There were times I stumbled or needed time to collect my thoughts but overall I thought I did at least an okay job on the interviews. I was CA ORM however and I think that may have been a massive penalty. FWIW all my interviews were at T20s.

Sorry, but most people are not good judges of their own interview performances.

 

[fogo]

Sorry, but most people are not good judges of their own interview performances.

I know this is an anonymous forum so individualized feedback is hard to give. I'm certain though that there are more factors at play than just poor interview performances.

 

[alm414]

I know this is an anonymous forum so individualized feedback is hard to give. I'm certain though that there are more factors at play than just poor interview performances.

Maybe. But you still got the interview invites, and any other factors at play would have been present before that. So the only thing that changed between you being extended an interview invite and you being waitlisted was your interview. After 4 waitlists I think Goro is right and working on interview skills is never a bad idea.

What other factors do you think are at play?

 

[fogo]

Maybe. But you still got the interview invites, and any other factors at play would have been present before that. So the only thing that changed between you being extended an interview invite and you being waitlisted was your interview. After 4 waitlists I think Goro is right and working on interview skills is never a bad idea.

What other factors do you think are at play?

Your background and letters of recommendation are factors that you have the least control over. So the fact that I am CA ORM who doesn't attend HYPSM, or uninspiring (not poor) LOR(s) might've made me "glossed over" when the AdComs are debating between borderline candidates.

 

[KnightDoc]

Your background and letters of recommendation are factors that you have the least control over. So the fact that I am CA ORM who doesn't attend HYPSM, or uninspiring (not poor) LOR(s) might've made me "glossed over" when the AdComs are debating between borderline candidates.

I honestly believe that anyone critiquing your interview performance without having been there is grasping at straws.

The simple fact is, it's a very competitive process, the II to A conversion rate is far below 100%, and the cycle isn't over yet. LORs are not your problem if you are receiving IIs. That is the answer to your OP.

Beyond that, who knows? Maybe your interviews all sucked. Maybe you are just a victim of bad luck and insane competition. Maybe you are still going to receive an A.

Rather than focusing on your LORs, the best explanation is @LizzyM's staircase analogy, in which your interview performance is NOT the only deciding factor post interview, because your interview performance is just one element of your file, along with everything else. Maybe your GPA isn't the best when stacked up against the other T20 candidates. Maybe it's your MCAT, ECs, LORs, interview, essays, or any combination of them. Why focus on LORs? Is everything else in your file really as awesome as humanly possible? 🙂

Going in, you were good enough to receive IIs, but the numbers dictate that everyone receiving an II is not going to receive an A. There might not be anything wrong with anything in your file, including your interview. You just might have missed the cut if, after eliminating everyone with problems, they still have too many candidates for the available seats.

 

[mmchick]

Your background and letters of recommendation are factors that you have the least control over. So the fact that I am CA ORM who doesn't attend HYPSM, or uninspiring (not poor) LOR(s) might've made me "glossed over" when the AdComs are debating between borderline candidates.

So it seems you've fallen into the external cast of blame for a failure rather than looking inwards. If a single mediocre letter was destructive to your application, you would've had 0 interviews. Schools do not waste their precious resources and spots on interviewees that they aren't sure will be a good fit via submission of a lackluster letter. You had 4 interviews. Only ~11% of applicants get that many interviews, I'm sure more than 11% had mediocre letters. The rest of your application seemed fine enough to also extend you 4 interviews.

People are poor predictors and over-evaluators of their own interview and social performance. You may have answered questions fine or thought you had a well-articulated experience, but maybe they didn't think you would fit well socially in their program, or there were other applicants that were more enthusiastic/fitting. Either way, you should get another opinion aside from your own on your interview skills. Feel free to take your own advice for another round or you could utilize the advice you came on here seeking. Just some thoughts.

 

[Stride]

As some have stated, you wouldn't get 4 interview invites with unconvincing letters of recommendation.

Yes, applicants may be bad judges of their own interview performance. But, I would argue anonymous speculations from those who were not even at the interview are even less effective at evaluating the same. These critiques are heuristical and thus unfounded without an individualized review of your results.

A pertinent question to ask is when were your interviews? If you did all four in September and October, then the chances that your status is because of poor interview performance are higher. You would have been identified as a "priority" interviewee in four instances and have not come through in any.

However, if they were later in the cycle, the reason is likely more multifactorial in nature, the "staircase analogy", if you will. It could be "weaknesses" (i.e. being outshined by others) in several areas. Many schools automatically place people on the waitlist at later stages. Thus, the question becomes: why was I not offered an interview invite earlier?

 

[fogo]

As some have stated, you wouldn't get 4 interview invites with unconvincing letters of recommendation.

Yes, applicants may be bad judges of their own interview performance. But, I would argue anonymous speculations from those who were not even at the interview are even less effective at evaluating the same. These critiques are heuristical and thus unfounded without an individualized review of your results.

A pertinent question to ask is when were your interviews? If you did all four in September and October, then the chances that your status is because of poor interview performance are higher. You would have been identified as a "priority" interviewee in four instances and have not come through in any.

However, if they were later in the cycle, the reason is likely more multifactorial in nature, the "staircase analogy", if you will. It could be "weaknesses" (i.e. being outshined by others) in several areas. Many schools automatically place people on the waitlist at later stages. Thus, the question becomes: why was I not offered an interview invite earlier?

I had five interviews; three were in October, one was in December (reject), one was in February (II came in January). I guess you could say that my interview performance might have had an effect on my getting waitlisted but they were T20s (three being T10). Knowing how competitive they are I can’t tell if it was my interviews or rotten luck (or both). What frustrates me more is that all my state schools and mid tiers didn’t even give me an II which makes me suspect what it was that only yielded five interviews.

 

[Redpancreas]

I’m currently sitting on four waitlists but fear that my cycle did not go as well as I had hoped because of a possibly bland letter. While my other letter writers were enthusiastic and effusive when I requested for one, this one biology professor simply said “I can write you a confidential letter for med school apps. Send me GPA/MCAT/etc. and feedback from TA for your discussion section.” I didn’t think much of it because I thought I had a good relationship with him, we exchanged hellos whenever I ran into him on campus, and I went to office hours diligently and got an A in the class. But I’m starting to think he just wrote an uninspiring letter and this may have tanked my chances this cycle. Could my suspicions be correct?

A bland letter...no. A negative letter, yes, that definitely could lead to issues. I don't think that was the issue but no one will know for sure.

 

[Redpancreas]

I'm not sure my interview skills were that subpar. There were times I stumbled or needed time to collect my thoughts but overall I thought I did at least an okay job on the interviews. I was CA ORM however and I think that may have been a massive penalty. FWIW all my interviews were at T20s.

This is the answer to this thread. I think too many people in this thread are second guessing OPs interviewing skills. Interview skills seem to be a grab-bag everyone mentions on here. The thing I'm surprised didn't get brought up yet is the schools applied to. OP did you just apply to Cali schools (all of which are extremely competitive because it's cali), top 20 schools, and maybe a few top 50s (what you're calling midtiers) as backups? When I hear instate schools, I don't think of Cali schools. I like the staircase analogy mentioned above especially in relation to these top 20 schools. I doubt this process really stops looking at non-interview performance factors when it comes to acceptances.

The most frustrating thing about interviewing is it's kind of personal. Are people telling me I'm socially awkward? How do I fix that? There comes a point where this level of introspection is counterproductive. It's also frustrating because interview practice doesn't take a year to improve on unless you have a pervasive personality disorder. All that being said, the 3 interviews in October not converting to acceptances may signify that while your interviewing was not terrible, it may need some work still if you find yourself applying next cycle. Maybe you come off as boring/wordy and don't stand out (which most people don't by definition)? Who knows. Medical schools love interesting candidates who stand out but also meet the metrics on paper so you have to stand out just a little to be competitive in that T20 space. If you don't have it, find a way to brand yourself in an interesting way the next go around. Your journey to medical school should come off as a story. I advise you meet with someone you know well who you're close to or someone who will be brutally honest if there is an issue with your interview skills. In the meantime, I have no evidence to say this, I doubt your interview performance was that bad so don't beat yourself up and hyperintrospect on whether you're socially awkward or something.

You will get into medical school. Start looking for gap year positions to strengthen your application. While you may not have an accomplishment or pub by the time apps come out this year, it gives you something to talk about during your interviews.

 

[KnightDoc]

I had five interviews; three were in October, one was in December (reject), one was in February (II came in January). I guess you could say that my interview performance might have had an effect on my getting waitlisted but they were T20s (three being T10). Knowing how competitive they are I can’t tell if it was my interviews or rotten luck (or both). What frustrates me more is that all my state schools and mid tiers didn’t even give me an II which makes me suspect what it was that only yielded five interviews.

Absolutely nothing! 5 T20 IIs, with 3 T10s, and nothing else, indicates you were yield (resource) protected out at the lower tier schools, and NOT that there is anything wrong with anything in your application. Do you seriously believe state schools and mid tiers are more picky than T10s and 20s????

Unfortunately, it totally sucks to be in the purgatory where you are unable to close the deal at the top schools and all the other schools are afraid to invest time and resources into you because they are sure you will leave them at the altar. This is one of the things that keeps me up at night, so, you are not alone.

 

[Moko]

Going in, you were good enough to receive IIs, but the numbers dictate that everyone receiving an II is not going to receive an A. There might not be anything wrong with anything in your file, including your interview. You just might have missed the cut if, after eliminating everyone with problems, they still have too many candidates for the available seats.

I agree with this. We are routinely forced to reject and waitlist perfectly fine applicants post-interview as there simply are not enough available seats. Stats, ECs, LORs and other accomplishments continue to hold weight post-interview (just to a lesser extent). The caliber of applicants is very high, particularly so at research-heavy institutions, so it's possible the OP just missed the mark.

Being rejected/waitlisted post-interview from these schools should not automatically be interpreted as there being a major flaw in your application, though certainly it should spark some reflection to ensure potential weaknesses are adequately addressed prior to reapplication. Hopefully the OP will get off one of their waitlists. Just my thoughts and best of luck.

 

[revaew]

You had 4 interviews. Only ~11% of applicants get that many interviews

Where does one actually find these data?

 

[ingobingo]

Doesn't seem to be the letter that's the issue - only negative letters really make a significant impact on your app. Have to admit that I took a peek through your post history to figure out the exact schools that you were referring to and 3/4 of them are literally top of the top with the other one being in an incredibly competitive location. You must have had a stellar application to receive multiple interviews to these types of schools in the first place, so honestly I would chalk it up to either rotten luck or lackluster (not necessarily bad) interviewing (did you do practice interviews and receive feedback on how you came across? who did you do them with?). Waitlists from these schools (some of which reject post-II) mean that you're still at the top of their mind, but because of class size they can't take you just yet. Have you been sending update letters to schools or considered sending in a letter of intent or interest?

 

[fogo]

Doesn't seem to be the letter that's the issue - only negative letters really make a significant impact on your app. Have to admit that I took a peek through your post history to figure out the exact schools that you were referring to and 3/4 of them are literally top of the top with the other one being in an incredibly competitive location. You must have had a stellar application to receive multiple interviews to these types of schools in the first place, so honestly I would chalk it up to either rotten luck or lackluster (not necessarily bad) interviewing (did you do practice interviews and receive feedback on how you came across? who did you do them with?). Waitlists from these schools (some of which reject post-II) mean that you're still at the top of their mind, but because of class size they can't take you just yet. Have you been sending update letters to schools or considered sending in a letter of intent or interest?

I have sent an update letter a month after the interview, a letter of interest to two schools in March and to another two in mid-May. I am planning on sending them one last letter of interest next week or early June but it’s disheartening.

It’s possible my interviews were lackluster but I felt like I built up a good rapport with my interviewers. However I didn’t have the best conditions for interviewing via zoom (time zone differences and spotty WiFi). I will hope for the best but I’m planning on reapps, including getting another LOR that I am confident will be positive.

As CA ORM applying to only 17 schools was always a risky proposition but I knew that my app was of high quality. WedgeDawg’s scale indicated 15-20 was appropriate but I guess my unfounded confidence came back to shoot me in the foot.

If you’d like I could send a censored version of my AMCAS primary, though I’m not sure it’s allowed.

 

[ingobingo]

I have sent an update letter a month after the interview, a letter of interest to two schools in March and to another two in mid-May. I am planning on sending them one last letter of interest next week or early June but it’s disheartening.

It’s possible my interviews were lackluster but I felt like I built up a good rapport with my interviewers. However I didn’t have the best conditions for interviewing via zoom (time zone differences and spotty WiFi). I will hope for the best but I’m planning on reapps, including getting another LOR that I am confident will be positive.

As CA ORM applying to only 17 schools was always a risky proposition but I knew that my app was of high quality. WedgeDawg’s scale indicated 15-20 was appropriate but I guess my unfounded confidence came back to shoot me in the foot.

If you’d like I could send a censored version of my AMCAS primary, though I’m not sure it’s allowed.

Gotcha - seems like you're doing everything in your power to give yourself as good of a chance at getting off the waitlist.

Just to restate my question (since you didn't answer it directly) - did you practice interview with other people? As previous posters have noted, we aren't the best at gauging our interpersonal skills so just wanted to see if you covered that base.

I don't think I or anyone else who's not an adcom would be that helpful with reviewing your app since 1) it doesn't include your letters and 2) it must have been good enough to get the interview invites you got.

 

[Redpancreas]

I have sent an update letter a month after the interview, a letter of interest to two schools in March and to another two in mid-May. I am planning on sending them one last letter of interest next week or early June but it’s disheartening.

It’s possible my interviews were lackluster but I felt like I built up a good rapport with my interviewers. However I didn’t have the best conditions for interviewing via zoom (time zone differences and spotty WiFi). I will hope for the best but I’m planning on reapps, including getting another LOR that I am confident will be positive.

As CA ORM applying to only 17 schools was always a risky proposition but I knew that my app was of high quality. WedgeDawg’s scale indicated 15-20 was appropriate but I guess my unfounded confidence came back to shoot me in the foot.

If you’d like I could send a censored version of my AMCAS primary, though I’m not sure it’s allowed.

17 schools...that’s it right there OP. Let’s substract your interviews because they were all top 10. That leaves 12 at worst midtier schools you applied to. I advise a few premeds from time to time which is why I list the following? Did you apply to Lowtier privates and OOS friendly places like Wayne State? I’m guessing not. This is more than likely the source of your results. It’s not your fault.

I’ve seen it in literally 5 of my friends all of whom eventually got in when they put put in way more applications.