Is PCOM worth the money IF you have a cheaper option?

[LEB129]

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I'm having a really hard time picking b/w PCOM and UMDNJ-SOM....I loved the atmosphere at PCOM but it is ~ $12,000 more....I liked NJ as well but not quite as much as PCOM....is PCOM worth all of the extra money?

 

[Inquiringmind24]

I don't know anything about PCOM, but I would go for the cheaper tuition anyday.

 

[Taus]

thats a tough choice...both good schools....do a search w/ those 2 schools in the title and you should come accross some threads that discussed the pros and cons of those 2 schools head to head

 

[medhacker]

It is an individual choice,

It depends on where would you like to go, I personally feel PCOM would open more doors for me than UMDNJ-SOM would. For that reason, PCOM is worth the money.

In my case, you get what you pay for...

Do your research and if the doors you need open, can be equally open from both sides, then take UMDNJ-SOM. If not then, in my opinion, put the money issue on the backseat.


Note: Most med students change their career directions many times. While it may seem to you today that both schools will open the same doors equally for you because of the specialty/place of training you would like to follow, you may very well change your plans. Therefore, paying more to keep the most options open is, in my opinion, a good deal. Best wishes!

 

[PlasticMan]

PCOM has some impressive residencies including plastics. If you're thinking of specializing, I would go PCOM. Of course, you could always get into a specialty from either school, but PCOM has the lowest percentage of DO graduates going into primary care (37%). If you're dead set on doing primary care, then either choice would be fine, with cheaper tuition sounding nice. 🙂

 

[scpod]

I'm having a really hard time picking b/w PCOM and UMDNJ-SOM....I loved the atmosphere at PCOM but it is ~ $12,000 more....I liked NJ as well but not quite as much as PCOM....is PCOM worth all of the extra money?

$12,000 a year extra for 4 years will end up costing you about $140,000 over the life of a 25 year loan. Is PCOM really worth the extra money?

 

[DOctorJay]

i had the same dilemma a while back, i even paid the deposit at PCOM to hold a seat. look back at some of my posts from way back, they may help.

$48K is a HUGE sum of money, make absolutely certain it is worth it for YOU.

J

 

[LEB129]

Which school does better on the boards?

 

[Taus]

Which school does better on the boards?

that info isn't published.....and besides...your board score is largely up to individual effort

 

[JonnyG]

Loans get paid back. I have been told time and time again don't worry about them. The key is to find somewhere where you will be happy. I had my choice of schools and choose PCOM cause it just felt right. I have never regreted it and found more reason why i like it.

 

[DOctorJay]

yes loans get paid back but is it really WORTH it? med students these days MUST consider the best VALUE they can get for their education, the pay isn't what it used to be.

bottom line, go to the cheapest school that will prepare you for what you want to go into the best.

J

 

[PlasticMan]

yes loans get paid back but is it really WORTH it? med students these days MUST consider the best VALUE they can get for their education, the pay isn't what it used to be.

bottom line, go to the cheapest school that will prepare you for what you want to go into the best.

J

Agreed. For instance, look into what their rotations look like and see what corresponds with what you want to do. I know UMDNJ-SOM 3rd year rotations include 12 weeks of family practice and 6 weeks of surgery/anastesia. I don't know what PCOM's look like; some schools put less time into family practice (my school is 6 weeks family practice and 12 weeks surgery just for example). Just another thing to take into account depending on what you're interested in 🙂

 

[Taus]

Agreed. For instance, look into what their rotations look like and see what corresponds with what you want to do. I know UMDNJ-SOM 3rd year rotations include 12 weeks of family practice and 6 weeks of surgery/anastesia. I don't know what PCOM's look like; some schools put less time into family practice (my school is 6 weeks family practice and 12 weeks surgery just for example). Just another thing to take into account depending on what you're interested in 🙂

pcom's rotations: http://www.pcom.edu/Clinical_Education/Third_and_Fourth_Year_Programs/Third-_and_Fourth-Year.html

Just take a look down one of the columns and it will show you exactly what rotations PCOM students do (the only difference b/w all the horizontal columns is the order you do your rotations...so just focus on one vertical column). You can click on the links to see what some of them are that aren't so self-explanatory (ie advanced clinical skills, IM-selective and Ambulatory Surgery-Selective, urban/rural clinics, etc).

Here are PCOM's affiliated Residencies:
http://www.pcom.edu/Graduate_Medical_Education/Residency_Programs/Residency_Programs.html

 

[JonnyG]

If you go into any of the fields that dont pay alot. You are a ***** if you dont get loan reimbursement.

Finally do a search for PCOM and you will find why it really is worth it. Or ask around, the reputation is excellent

 

[poormansDO]

For Jonny G, Taus, JP Hazleton or any other knowledgeable PCOMer, I have a great interest in PCOM and have been complete at PCOM for a month and a half but haven't heard for an interview, what can I do to show PCOM my interest, I am planning to send a letter of interest this weekend? also do you know the next time PCOM's admissions committee meets?.

 

[PlasticMan]

For Jonny G, Taus, JP Hazleton or any other knowledgeable PCOMer, I have a great interest in PCOM and have been complete at PCOM for a month and a half but haven't heard for an interview, what can I do to show PCOM my interest, I am planning to send a letter of interest this weekend? also do you know the next time PCOM's admissions committee meets?.

You could also find out if they're having any open houses. I know they were suppossed to do one last year at Columbia in Manhattan.

 

[Taus]

You could also find out if they're having any open houses. I know they were suppossed to do one last year at Columbia in Manhattan.

I really have no idea....JonnyG seems to know stuff like that though...

 

[me454555]

I'm posting this here b/c it fits w/OPs original post.

Myth #1: So and so osteopathic school will open doors for me - Osteopathic schools are seen just like most middle and lower tier allopathic schools. Interchangeable. Name recognition @ a specific school will NOT open doors for you. The caveat to this rule is when you plan on applying to a specific geographic area. In that case, its NOT the schools name that will open doors for you but simply the fact that you get to rotate through that institution that gets you the spot. Our school matches a lot of people @ arrowhead. Its not b/c COMPs name is exceptionally good, it's simply b/c we do so many rotations there that the students get to meet and interact w/the important faculty @ that hospital. Unless you plan on going to JHU, Harvard, or some other big name school, name recognition means precisly dick

Myth #2: So and so school has a good match list so that means something - Don't let anyone or any osteopathic school sit there and tell you they are great b/c they had a couple of hard working determined people in their class. Where you match does NOT reflect your school in the least, its much more of a personal thing. Schools just don't have that great an effect on individual matches. We all use the same books for board study and there's no real secret to getting a high score that can't be found on the internet. I credit my own successes to my own hard work and definatly not to the school I attended. The people who matched plastics or derm or rads worked their a$$es off to get there and their school name didn't help one bit. Just b/c you go to that school, doesn't mean you will have the same success in the match. The converse to this statement is that just b/c you go to another school doesn't mean you can't have the same success as those people if you work hard.

Is it worth 12k/yr to go to PCOM? I can't answer that for you but I can tell you how you should think about it.

Is it worth 12k/yr to live in philli vs NJ? How much is it worth to you to gain a slight edge @ some pennsylvania hospitals? Is it worth 12k/yr to be slighly happier @ PCOM than UMDNJ? 12k * 4 = 48k after intest its more like 55-60. Would you rather buy kick a$$ car, put a down payment on your house, or go to PCOM?

Those are the things that you should think about, not the match list or schools name b/c the fact of the matter is that osteopathic schools are all pretty much the same.

 

[medhacker]

One little important thing I missed on my first post on this thread

I reiterate that this is a personal choice. However, as admitted by the program directors of PCOM's residencies I am interested in - PCOM students get some application advantages when compared to applicants of other schools (courtesy guaranteed interview, familiarity with LOR writers, possibility of getting involved with PDs in research projects, etc). Is that worth 12K more per year for me? absolutely - while other schools have similar residency programs to those of PCOM - there are some residencies that are only offered at PCOM and even those who exists somewhere else I find at PCOM are better organized and therefore preferable.

It depends on what doors you need open...


P.S: If one wishes to specialize, compare how much rotation time is mandatory in primary care at both schools this will make a huge difference when one needs to do away rotations.

 

[Taus]

One little important thing I missed on my first post on this thread

I reiterate that this is a personal choice. However, as admitted by the program directors of PCOM's residencies I am interested in - PCOM students get some application advantages when compared to applicants of other schools (courtesy guaranteed interview, familiarity with LOR writers, possibility of getting involved with PDs in research projects, etc). Is that worth 12K more per year for me? absolutely - while other schools have similar residency programs to those of PCOM - there are some residencies that are only offered at PCOM and even those who exists somewhere else I find at PCOM are better organized and therefore preferable. x

It depends on what doors you need open...


P.S: If one wishes to specialize, compare how much rotation time is mandatory in primary care at both schools this will make a huge difference when one needs to do away rotations.

for whatever its worth...after taking a look at the class of 2005 pcom match list... medhackers advice seems to hold true..

PCOM students matching to PCOM programs:
ortho-3
gen surg-2
ent-2

Though, as the poster below noted...I'm sure those above students busted their a$$es, as well as all the other PCOM students matching in these and other competative specialties at other hospitals....but being a student here seems to help if those specialties (see my link in an earlier post about PCOM residencies) are what you want. Along those lines, there is no doubt in my mind that the PCOM student who matched at UPENN's Derm program last year worked unbelievably hard....its tough to say how much being a PCOM student helped...but you never know.

I can't speak for any other school b/c I'm not a student there. Figure out what criteria are important to YOU in a med school and then compare those

 

[czanetti]

Hey you can just say screw both of them and go to TCOM!

 

[Taus]

I would have considered that...but if your not a TX resident you're pretty close to being SOL...

 

[Dr JPH]

$12,000/year is a lot of money

If you are doing 100% loans for medical school you can easily rack up $250,000 in debt, not to mention undergraduate loans.

$280,000 vs $232,000

When you look at it like that who really cares...you will be paying it off for 30 years anyway.

$48,000 over a 30 year loan at a reasonable consolidated interest rate will cost you an additional $200/month during repayment.

With all that said you still need to chose the school that fits you best, regardless of cost.

Being miserable for 4 years isnt worth $48,000

 

[Nate]

The docs I asked while I was applying gave me the same advice, go to the cheapest US med school possible. I got a bonus when the cheapest school was also the best school for me.

Any way you slice it, 48,000 dollars is a ton of money. PCOM is great I am sure but so is UMDNJ.

 

[Dr JPH]

The docs I asked while I was applying gave me the same advice, go to the cheapest US med school possible.

Not the decision I made myself. I had the option to go to a far cheaper medical school but I chose PCOM.

If money is your #1 deciding factor then you havent researched enough.

 

[Lyrian]

I agree with JPH--money should not be your motivating factor. No matter how you cut it, there will be loans and repayment of those loans. Money can always be earned, and there are options available.

If you really are bound and determined to look at the financial side, think about it this way: many of us do work-study for that extra little bit. Also--and JPH is an excellent source on this--there is the OMM fellowship route. It adds a year to your education, but it includes a stipend and some money towards tuition (I won't say more, as I don't know the specifics). But if you look at it that way and theoretically go to PCOM over UMDNJ, the costs are about the same.

But aside from all of that, which school did you see yourself attending? Did you walk on campus and say, "This is it!"? As someone mentioned earlier, do you want to be miserable for four years because you went with the financial argument? I am biased as a PCOMer, I know, but I too had an option to go to a less expensive school, but it meant more to me that I was comfortable and happy in my environment because I cannot learn when I am upset and can do nothing but complain. That is not to say that UMDNJ is not the place for you. I have heard great things about it and met docs who graduated from there. But it seems to me in reading your posts that you like PCOM except for the money issue.

As long as you will have the initials D.O. after your name in the end, choose the school you fell in love with.

 

[scpod]

I agree with JPH--money should not be your motivating factor. No matter how you cut it, there will be loans and repayment of those loans. Money can always be earned, and there are options available.

Money should not be the only factor, but it should always be considered if you have more than one option of schools to attend. I was accepted to two schools in the same state that could have both given me a good educatio, but I could never have spent $7,000 more dollars per year on tuition, since over the life of a 25 year loan that actually comes to over $90,000 extra in payments. Being a home owner, being hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt, and realizing how much difference even a single point in interest means, will change your attitude rather quickly.

If you really are bound and determined to look at the financial side, think about it this way: many of us do work-study for that extra little bit. Also--and JPH is an excellent source on this--there is the OMM fellowship route. It adds a year to your education, but it includes a stipend and some money towards tuition (I won't say more, as I don't know the specifics). But if you look at it that way and theoretically go to PCOM over UMDNJ, the costs are about the same.

Not everyone has that option. You cannot know when you commit to spend all that monet whether or not you will be able to use that as a method of lowering your financial burden. The fact that you can theoretically pay the same amount is far from a guarantee.

But aside from all of that, which school did you see yourself attending? Did you walk on campus and say, "This is it!"? .

Not everyone has just one option where the say, "This is it!" Fortunately, the choice I eventually made was pretty much a "this is it!" school, AND was also financially more attractive as well.

As someone mentioned earlier, do you want to be miserable for four years because you went with the financial argument?

Not everyone is going to be miserable just because they chose the financial option. Some people would be miserable simply because they are accruing so much money in interest. Actually, some people are miserable no matter what option they choose🙂

Yet, personally I feel that you should go to the school where you feel most comfortable. I think that when you feel comfortable, that you will perform better and work harder. However, I also don't feel that that should be the only reason either. Everyone needs to strive for a happy compromise in his or her situation. Ultimately, the OP needs to understand what is more important to his or her own situation-- the financial aspect shouldn't just be quickly discounted, nor should the fact that s/he likes one better than the other.

 

[Dr JPH]

I could never have spent $7,000 more dollars per year on tuition, since over the life of a 25 year loan that actually comes to over $90,000 extra in payments.

😱

Your math is a bit incorrect.

$7,000/year ($28,000) over 25 years at 6% means you pay about $26,000 in interest...about double, no where near triple ($90,000).

You would have to be paying 12% interest for that to be the case.

I just consolidated a large portion of my loans at 2.38%. $7000/year ($28,000) for me over 25 years comes to about $37,000...only $9,000 in interest or about $360.00 per year.

 

[group_theory]

Another angle to look at

Think of yourself about to buy a new car that you will be with for the next 4 years.

Now you can purchase Car A for $10,000 or Car B for $20,000.

*for the sake of argument, let's say all objective quantitative measures of Car A and Car B are the same.

Let's say you really like Car B. You think Car A is ok, but you like Car B. The only problem is that Car B is more expensive. Both will get you from Point A to Point B. Let's also pretend that Car B is a bit flashier so that it can be attractive to some people while you drive (analogy to residencies - i know, i'm stretching it).

So do you go for Car A or Car B?

 

[Dr JPH]

Car C?

😉


My overall point is this...if the $12,000 difference in tuition is considered and you STILL have a hard time making your decision...well, then your mind is probably already set and you are here looking for someone to sway you in one direction or another.

Either way you will end up at a good school.

 

[scpod]

Your math is a bit incorrect.

$7,000/year ($28,000) over 25 years at 6% means you pay about $26,000 in interest...about double, no where near triple ($90,000).

You would have to be paying 12% interest for that to be the case.
.

Not quite 12% because that last $7,000 of each year is not really 28,000. It is about 32,000 after 4 years because the federal government isn't paying the interest on that portion-- It would be either in private loans or the new GradPlus. The GradPlus is still a deal, but it's not 6%; it's fixed at 8.5% right now. Private loans can be even higher. You are right, however, in that consolidation can save you. However, even that much extra is not acceptable to me. If I was 22 instead of 42, then it might be a different story.

 

[Dr JPH]

Not quite 12% because that last $7,000 of each year is not really 28,000. It is about 32,000 after 4 years because the federal government isn't paying the interest on that portion-- It would be either in private loans or the new GradPlus. The GradPlus is still a deal, but it's not 6%; it's fixed at 8.5% right now. Private loans can be even higher. You are right, however, in that consolidation can save you. However, even that much extra is not acceptable to me. If I was 22 instead of 42, then it might be a different story.

What abotu Stafford loans?

I maxed out on them which saved me a ton of money.

I worked my private loans down to 4% as well.

I agree, age does factor in to these decisions as do other responsibilities (house, spouse, kids, other debts)

 

[scpod]

What abotu Stafford loans?

I maxed out on them which saved me a ton of money.

Yes, but you can quickly max out on that if you have significant undergrad or post-bacc debt as well.

I worked my private loans down to 4% as well.

It can be done if you chose the right lender, accept the right offers, and keep your credit stellar. There are unforseen circumstances, though, which could keep you from doing that.

I agree, age does factor in to these decisions as do other responsibilities (house, spouse, kids, other debts)

Believe it or not, I'm not trying to start an argument of any kind. I'm just saying that the responsible thing to do is to take a deeper look at the finiancial aspect, especially if you have a family to think about. Financial problems are one of the biggest causes of family breakups in our country today. Paying for private schools, or piano lessons, or new shoes for the kids could be really tough on a resident's salary. Every little bit counts.

Of course, even if you don't have a family now, chances are that you might some time over the 25 year period of your loan. So, it's important to think responsibly now anyway. I know too many people in my class (and plenty more on SDN) who think, "The money will just take care of itself." There is a time to stop believing that. I think med school is an good a time as any.

 

[USArmyDoc]

Listen, I go to PCOM, but I did not apply to UMDNJ. However, UMDNJ is just as strong as PCOM. Lets face it, they are affiliated with an allopathic medical school as well. I am not insinuating that just b/c they are connected to a MD school that they are better in any way, but to suggest that UMDNJ can't open the same doors as PCOM is rediculous in my opinion.

If I was accepted to both, I probably would of picked UMDNJ b/c of tuition....I just never thought of applying there.

 

[Dr JPH]

Believe it or not, I'm not trying to start an argument of any kind.

Never said you were, my friend.

I appreciate your insight as it is coming from a totally different perspective than mine.

I dont have any real responsibilities as far as house/family go. All I needed to do was buy the engagement ring and she (luckily) takes care of the rest.