Is Pharmacy really BS?

[BME103]

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I am sure many of you know that pharmacy used to be a BS degree but now pharmacy schools only grant Pharm.D. and therefore, require more schooling. I don't think you need that many classes to become a good pharmacist. It serves no real purpose to require pre-reqs such as physics and organic chemistry but to only give the false illusion that the Pharm.D. degree is a "professional" degree.

I am sorry to say pharmacy schools do not dictate the direction of the profession, but we are frequently reminded by the Walgreens commercial that we don't live "in a perfect world". Actually, Walgreens dictates the profession...Walgreens did start the drive thru afterall.

 

[intothekarl]

Are you a pharmacist?

 

[dgroulx]

I am sure many of you know that pharmacy used to be a BS degree but now pharmacy schools only grant Pharm.D. and therefore, require more schooling. I don't think you need that many classes to become a good pharmacist. It serves no real purpose to require pre-reqs such as physics and organic chemistry but to only give the false illusion that the Pharm.D. degree is a "professional" degree.

You don't need physics or organic chemistry to be a good physician, yet they take the same prerequisites. Where's your logic?

BTW, I used organic chemistry in pharmacy school. You probably won't pass med chem without understanding organic. Without the chemistry pre-requisites, you'd never understand how drugs work in the body.

 

[njac]

even when pharmacy was a BS degree didn't they still have ochem andphysics as prereqs? I know organic was a prereq for my uncle in the early 80s.

 

[Caverject]

I am sure many of you know that pharmacy used to be a BS degree but now pharmacy schools only grant Pharm.D. and therefore, require more schooling. I don't think you need that many classes to become a good pharmacist. It serves no real purpose to require pre-reqs such as physics and organic chemistry but to only give the false illusion that the Pharm.D. degree is a "professional" degree.

I am sorry to say pharmacy schools do not dictate the direction of the profession, but we are frequently reminded by the Walgreens commercial that we don't live "in a perfect world". Actually, Walgreens dictates the profession...Walgreens did start the drive thru afterall.

thanks for your opinion....next!

 

[storyhill2]

I agree many classes are a waste of time, but every degree has those classes. The ones I hate are those that are supposed to create well rounded individuals (the arts and humanities). I know physics was one of my favorite classes but it probably won't help me much in my profession. I did take physics with all pre-dent, pre-med, and pre-pharm students and it's probably as useless to them.

 

[ZpackSux]

I am sure many of you know that pharmacy used to be a BS degree but now pharmacy schools only grant Pharm.D. and therefore, require more schooling. I don't think you need that many classes to become a good pharmacist. It serves no real purpose to require pre-reqs such as physics and organic chemistry but to only give the false illusion that the Pharm.D. degree is a "professional" degree.

I am sorry to say pharmacy schools do not dictate the direction of the profession, but we are frequently reminded by the Walgreens commercial that we don't live "in a perfect world". Actually, Walgreens dictates the profession...Walgreens did start the drive thru afterall.

 

[yatzek]

physics wasnt a prereq in my school but organic and all the chemistries and all the biology classes help you understand the more advanced material, a lot of people get freaked out by the amount of chem you need to know for pharmacy but thats what pharmacists need to know- in some countries pharmacists are known as "chemists" (australia)...
but yeah, someone should delete this thread- bs stands for bull**** and i wouldn't be surprised if this is some frustrated prepharm student trying to take the piss

 

[BME103]

It appears to me that many of you guys need a dose of reality. If you really think you need 2 years of chemistry to do well in pharmacy, then you seriously need to wake up and smell the vicodin. Pharmacists were known as "chemists" back in the days because they used to compound many medications. How many pharmacists actually do that now? Not many. A quarter of biochemistry is adequate. Don't even get me started on the other pre-reqs. If you can sit down and memorize meaningless facts, you will do fine.

I still cannot believe the crap pharmacy schools and the profession of pharmacy try to shove down our throat. I am sure many of you know what I am talking about. It is a shame that many bright minds end up in this mindless profession.

 

[BME103]

You don't need physics or organic chemistry to be a good physician, yet they take the same prerequisites. Where's your logic?

With your logic, pharmacy schools should continue to require those useless pre-reqs because med and dental schools require them. Is that your rational? The only plausible reason as to why pharmacy schools require more pre-reqs than medical schools is to make it seem like pharmacy is difficult.

If pharmacy is a professional degree, we need to be trained as professionals. The curriculum needs to be focused. We don't need to take business, public health, research and other bs classes. If someone (very few by the way) wants to do something different with her degree, then she can explore it during her rotation (e.g. work at a pharmaceutical company). There is absolutely no need to require everyone to take those classes especially when most of us will work in a pharmacy. By eliminating those classes, we can focus on the fundamentals the 1st 2 years and do our rotations the last 2 years.

By then again, we are not appreciated by the medical profession and the general public, and we certainly cannot bill insurances for our "clinical" services so I don't see the point.

 

[ForeverPharm]

It appears to me that many of you guys need a dose of reality. If you really think you need 2 years of chemistry to do well in pharmacy, then you seriously need to wake up and smell the vicodin. Pharmacists were known as "chemists" back in the days because they used to compound many medications. How many pharmacists actually do that now? Not many. A quarter of biochemistry is adequate. Don't even get me started on the other pre-reqs. If you can sit down and memorize meaningless facts, you will do fine.

I still cannot believe the crap pharmacy schools and the profession of pharmacy try to shove down our throat. I am sure many of you know what I am talking about. It is a shame that many bright minds end up in this mindless profession.

Don't take it personal:
"A quarter of biochemistry is adequate" maybe, But how? how would you understand biochem and Medicinal Chemistry without knowing basic chemistry and organic chemistry. I don't know where you took your biochem but at my undergraduate Biochem you needed to know O-chem.

Also, how can you take cell biology without knowing basic biology.
All sciences are built on basic foundation and grow complex. The bisics are the building blocks.

If you are talking about physics, humanities,... as josephbroten said these classes "supposed to create well rounded individuals" . All professional schools want to see that you have had other types of academic exposure. Not only Science.

If you are talking about walgreens and opening a drive through, THIS IS A BUSINESS. it does NOT lower pharmacist's Professionalism.
It's the same as the HMO physician that spends only 8-10 min with a patient !! you can't even have some tests done unless you visit many times, it cost $. But can I call that physician an Idiot? ofcourse not

and lastly: who would pay a person with " mindless profession " an average of $89,000 a year. think about it

 

[ForeverPharm]

By then again, we are not appreciated by the medical profession and the general public, and we certainly cannot bill insurances for our "clinical" services so I don't see the point.

Now we know where are are you coming from.

 

[dgroulx]

With your logic, pharmacy schools should continue to require those useless pre-reqs because med and dental schools require them. Is that your rational? The only plausible reason as to why pharmacy schools require more pre-reqs than medical schools is to make it seem like pharmacy is difficult.

Out of my prereqs, the only one not useful to me was physics. Pharmacy built upon my undergrad foundation of chemistry, biology, microbiology and genetics. I needed all of them. I'm not sure where you go to pharmacy school, but my school is purely clinical. They aren't training us to work at a retail location. Some of us may choose to do that, but not everyone will.

I suck at memorizing, but I get good grades in pharmacy school. Our exams are based on knowledge. You have to think in order to get a question correct. There's only a handful of questions that you'd get right if you only memorized drugs.

 

[pharmforme]

[/QUOTE]"By then again, we are not appreciated by the medical profession and the general public,"[/QUOTE]

BME103, what a ridiculously sweeping and unfounded generalization. Sounds like YOU have an appreciation issue especially.

[/QUOTE]"and we certainly cannot bill insurances for our "clinical" services so I don't see the point."][/QUOTE]

I'm sorry, are you saying that services and patient interactions only hold value if they're billable? LOL. You must be a real quality human being. Since you feel this is such a mindless profession that serves no contributory purpose, ummm..why are you here? To warn all of us uneducated, foolish people? Try taking a look in the mirror first 🙂

 

[Aznfarmerboi]

"By then again, we are not appreciated by the medical profession and the general public,"[/QUOTE]

BME103, what a ridiculously sweeping and unfounded generalization. Sounds like YOU have an appreciation issue especially.

[/QUOTE]"and we certainly cannot bill insurances for our "clinical" services so I don't see the point."][/QUOTE]

I'm sorry, are you saying that services and patient interactions only hold value if they're billable? LOL. You must be a real quality human being. Since you feel this is such a mindless profession that serves no contributory purpose, ummm..why are you here? To warn all of us uneducated, foolish people? Try taking a look in the mirror first 🙂[/QUOTE]

even then, with the new medicare laws, pharmacy hours are billable.

 

[pkpd]

I am sure many of you know that pharmacy used to be a BS degree but now pharmacy schools only grant Pharm.D. and therefore, require more schooling. I don't think you need that many classes to become a good pharmacist. It serves no real purpose to require pre-reqs such as physics and organic chemistry but to only give the false illusion that the Pharm.D. degree is a "professional" degree.

I am sorry to say pharmacy schools do not dictate the direction of the profession, but we are frequently reminded by the Walgreens commercial that we don't live "in a perfect world". Actually, Walgreens dictates the profession...Walgreens did start the drive thru afterall.

so what defines "professional" degree then?
and you are so wrong because physics, chemistry, biology, or organic chemistry are all basic sciences. how do you think we "pharmacist" (PharmD RPH or BS RPH) learn about medicinal chemistry, biochemistry & etc?? even though we dont directly use these knowledge but to tell u the truth, it helps us a lot at work.
to give u a good example...when someone ask me about a drug drug interaction, i dont have to look it up because all i have to do is think about the mechanism of action and immediately i know whether the drugs will interact with each other or not.

 

[MacGyver]

I am sure many of you know that pharmacy used to be a BS degree but now pharmacy schools only grant Pharm.D. and therefore, require more schooling. I don't think you need that many classes to become a good pharmacist. It serves no real purpose to require pre-reqs such as physics and organic chemistry but to only give the false illusion that the Pharm.D. degree is a "professional" degree.

I am sorry to say pharmacy schools do not dictate the direction of the profession, but we are frequently reminded by the Walgreens commercial that we don't live "in a perfect world". Actually, Walgreens dictates the profession...Walgreens did start the drive thru afterall.

Wow I agree 100%. And before you haters come on here calling me a hypocrite because I'm a med student, let me just say that I think MED SCHOOL has a bunch of fluff inflationary BS just like pharm and dent schools.

All these schools want to hype up the training to be more than required. Only a fool believes that you really need college level chemistry to work as a doctor or a pharmacist. Over the years, people in both profession wanted to hype up their degree so they look more professional. Doctors were the first ones to do it, since then every other health sciences program (pharm, dental, physical therapy, psychology, and now the idiotic doctor of nursing programs) are following suit.

The truth is that you could wipe out all of physics and chemistry and the quality of doctors and pharmacists in their everyday practice would not change one bit.

Hell you could drop most of biochemistry and STILL not see any difference. Dont believe me? Next time you see your family doc, ask him to trace out Krebs Cycle on the whiteboard. I guarantee you he wont be able to do it.

Get rid of all the nonsense and make pharmacy and med school a BS degree. For med school you need residency training to be competent, pharmacists dont need any residency though.

 

[pharmacology]

It seems BME doesn't know what he is talking about with respect to the BS to PharmD degree.

A Pharm BS used to be three years with two years of class. The PharmD is four years with two years of class. The difference in the number of classes between the BS and PharmD is negligible (sp). What has changed is the addition of a second year of clinicals.

Why anyone would complain about going from a BS to a PharmD by only taking one extra year school is beyond me. Be happy those that came before you lobbied hard to move their profession beyond the level of a BS...and with only one extra year to boot!

 

[tupac_don]

You don't need physics or organic chemistry to be a good physician, yet they take the same prerequisites. Where's your logic?

BTW, I used organic chemistry in pharmacy school. You probably won't pass med chem without understanding organic. Without the chemistry pre-requisites, you'd never understand how drugs work in the body.

Well that's a stretch. You dont' need to know the structure of a drug to know how it works in the body (ie MOA). Yea you do if you are a researcher, who is trying to come up with the mechanism based on structure of the drug. But it's not like you need orgo to really understand it.

I am sure pharmacists would turn out fine without orgo, or at least take medically related orgo, if you are gonna subject them to it.

 

[tupac_don]

It seems BME doesn't know what he is talking about with respect to the BS to PharmD degree.

A Pharm BS used to be three years with two years of class. The PharmD is four years with two years of class. The difference in the number of classes between the BS and PharmD is negligible (sp). What has changed is the addition of a second year of clinicals.

Why anyone would complain about going from a BS to a PharmD by only taking one extra year school is beyond me. Be happy those that came before you lobbied hard to move their profession beyond the level of a BS...and with only one extra year to boot!

Well not true. As far as I know, BS was a 2.5 year degree, with 2 years of classes and half a year of clinicals (more like 3-4 months).

Pharm D is actually only one more year of classes and one extra year of clinicals.

I think that people who are complaining for the extra year are basically those that just want to work in retail and not in the hospital. They don't want to do clinical and only retail, so the extra year is pointless to them. And reason why people complain is now they are forcing you do all these extra clinical rotations.

 

[tupac_don]

Wow I agree 100%. And before you haters come on here calling me a hypocrite because I'm a med student, let me just say that I think MED SCHOOL has a bunch of fluff inflationary BS just like pharm and dent schools.

All these schools want to hype up the training to be more than required. Only a fool believes that you really need college level chemistry to work as a doctor or a pharmacist. Over the years, people in both profession wanted to hype up their degree so they look more professional. Doctors were the first ones to do it, since then every other health sciences program (pharm, dental, physical therapy, psychology, and now the idiotic doctor of nursing programs) are following suit.

The truth is that you could wipe out all of physics and chemistry and the quality of doctors and pharmacists in their everyday practice would not change one bit.

Hell you could drop most of biochemistry and STILL not see any difference. Dont believe me? Next time you see your family doc, ask him to trace out Krebs Cycle on the whiteboard. I guarantee you he wont be able to do it.

Get rid of all the nonsense and make pharmacy and med school a BS degree. For med school you need residency training to be competent, pharmacists dont need any residency though.

Well as a med student myself, I agree and disagree with you. Sure you can get rid of orgo and physics. But remember orgo is a big weed out course for meds, so that's one purpose for having it.

As far as not needing biochem, that's a bit of a stretch. Regular biochem no, medical biochem, yes. Sure you can ask your FP whether he knows the brachial plexus, I doubt most FP's will be able to draw out brachial plexus. But that doesn't mean you should phase out anatomy.

If you want to get technical as a pharmacist I use maybe 10% of the knowledge I learned. Does that mean they should get rid of 90% of the stuff taught. My theory is that they need to prepare you for every possible setting, and they all have a base curriculum what you choose to do, will depend how much of a particular subject will be useful.

Making an MD a BS degree interesting concept!?????

 

[ButlerPharm.D.]

MD's in other countries receive BS degrees.

 

[bananaface]

Closing as the OP's only purpose seems to be trolling.