is pharmacy really super-saturated?

[deleted1029135]

why do people still enter pharmacy when everyone says the field is super-saturated?
I have so many friends who are either pre-pharm or already in pharmacy school
Some of them have pharmacist parents who own independent pharmacy

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[mentos]

Ya

 

[BackRowChi]

Pharmacists : Occupational Outlook Handbook: : U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics

Pharmacists dispense prescription medications and provide information to patients about the drugs and their use.

www.bls.gov

This should really be a sticky somewhere.

 

[Whysoez]

Yes

 

[PharmDwithAdream]

It is super saturated. I work right now in both the hospital full-time and retail per diem, and I see saturation in both sectors. They are barely hiring, and if they do it’s for <$45/hour, and mostly cutting down hours and your tech staff. I’m from up north and had moved down to the south a few years ago and it was equally saturated in both regions. However, each year it is only getting much worse for us pharmacists.

Students and parents need to open their eyes and be smart about this. They need to recognize the over saturation going on and not get all caught up by the doctorate degree and money signs.



Sent from my iPhone using SDN

 

[deleted562805]

why do people still enter pharmacy when everyone says the field is super-saturated?
I have so many friends who are either pre-pharm or already in pharmacy school
Some of them have pharmacist parents who own independent pharmacy

Some of your friends who have a pharmacist parents owning a independent pharmacy will get a job. For your other friends, it will be uncertain

 

[JustFillIt]

Has anyone ever played that old school video game called Lemmings?

 

[dochopeful1460]

There are many reasons people still enter (back up choice, primary choice, love of career, uninformed, only option etc.). I dont think that should be surprising.

The field is saturated from all the stories Ive heard but it will probably be unsaturated again decades later. School expansion has slowed down, less applicants, more unqualified applicants, tuition keeps rising but salary of the field isnt, residencies are becoming more common now etc.

Schools have already started cutting class sizes and maybe some with completely close in the future like certain law schools have done. I think it's just a matter of time.

 

[deleted898085]

it will probably be unsaturated again decades later.

I don't think so. With automation, retail will shrink. There will be more than enough pharmacists even if most of schools close.
Also, tech will be allowed to do more.

It's the trend, not cycle anymore.

 

[MilknCheerios]

The number of independent pharmacies is shrinking and reimbursement pressures and DIR fees threaten existing ones. If you google news "pharmacy news" there's always some week old post about some independent closing. Chain pharmacies aren't immune either-- to stay profitable many are shortening hours especially if there are multiple pharmacies in the same city. I doubt the situation is much better on the clinical side with residency-trained pharmacists also looking for jobs.

I still stand by the principles that a networked, hard-working, and geographically-versatile pharmacist will find employment in the field in some capacity, but the job market hasn't improved at all.

 

[PharmtoCS]

why do people still enter pharmacy when everyone says the field is super-saturated?

Denial.

1) Denial that the field really is saturated at all, or that the the saturation isn't as bad as pharmacists make it seem.

2) Denial that they themselves will be affected by the saturation. They think that all they have to do is work hard, stand out, make connections, etc. They think that as long as they have a plan laid out they'll land their dream job in their dream city. In reality things almost never go according to plan.

 

[mentos]

There are many reasons people still enter (back up choice, primary choice, love of career, uninformed, only option etc.). I dont think that should be surprising.

The field is saturated from all the stories Ive heard but it will probably be unsaturated again decades later. School expansion has slowed down, less applicants, more unqualified applicants, tuition keeps rising but salary of the field isnt, residencies are becoming more common now etc.

Schools have already started cutting class sizes and maybe some with completely close in the future like certain law schools have done. I think it's just a matter of time.

You don't understand. There are unemployed pharmacists right now. We have already reached the point of no return and there will never be a recovery. If all schools shut down right now, if a single PharmD was not given out for the next 10 years - it would still be supersaturated. Assuming class sizes decrease, going from 15,000 pharmDs per year to 14,000 PharmDs per year is not going to change anything.

 

[Dred Pirate]

Today: We routinely get 100+ applicants for every job we post -
2006 when I last changed jobs - I received 4 offers from retail joints simply by calling the DM - not even a formal interview - at this same time I received 3 job offers from hospitals. In today's world I probably wouldn't have gotten a job offer from a hospital (no residency, one year hospital experience in rural america)

So yes - super saturated and standards have dropped significantly - and this shows

 

[TerryTerry]

Only difference between you and your friends is that you are asking the question here and they never did.

 

[deleted562805]

The number of independent pharmacies is shrinking and reimbursement pressures and DIR fees threaten existing ones. If you google news "pharmacy news" there's always some week old post about some independent closing. Chain pharmacies aren't immune either-- to stay profitable many are shortening hours especially if there are multiple pharmacies in the same city. I doubt the situation is much better on the clinical side with residency-trained pharmacists also looking for jobs.

I still stand by the principles that a networked, hard-working, and geographically-versatile pharmacist will find employment in the field in some capacity, but the job market hasn't improved at all.

I think the PBMs are to be blamed for this.
Secondly, I also think they are the reason for high drug costs. The media wants to blame pharm companies and small bio tech companies. But I think the middle man is more at fault for the high drug prices

 

[Sleepingdoc]

There is gonna come a time when all these pharmacists retire and we need more to replace them.

 

[Xenophylia]

There is also gonna come a time when a meteor hits the earth and intelligent cockroaches rule the planet. I'm not holding my breath for either event and wouldn't advise anyone else to do so.

 

[JustFillIt]

There is also gonna come a time when a meteor hits the earth and intelligent cockroaches rule the planet. I'm not holding my breath for either event and wouldn't advise anyone else to do so.

This is wisdom right here - the world keeps spinning that’s for sure

 

[mentos]

There is gonna come a time when all these pharmacists retire and we need more to replace them.

There are far more new grads than retiring pharmacists. Plus the old pharmacists aren't retiring.

 

[TerryTerry]

There are far more new grads than retiring pharmacists. Plus the old pharmacists aren't retiring.

Many retired pharmacists actually compete with new graduates for scarce part-time positions because they rather make $40~50/hr few days a week than sit around and do nothing whole month.

And many employers prefer retired pharmacists because they don`t complain and are less concerned about things as long as they get paid. Also most employers know that these new graduates will run away as soon as they find better paying more secure positions.

 

[BidingMyTime]

And many employers prefer retired pharmacists because they don`t complain and are less concerned about things as long as they get paid. Also most employers know that these new graduates will run away as soon as they find better paying more secure positions.

Except the new grads aren't going to be finding better paying, more secure positions, because they don't exist.

 

[deleted898085]

I think they prefer new grads cos they will work harder and won't quit!

 

[mentos]

I think they prefer new grads cos they will work harder and won't quit!

I'd say it's hit or miss. Many new grads have no work experience besides rotations.

 

[deleted1029135]

Pharmacists : Occupational Outlook Handbook: : U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics

Pharmacists dispense prescription medications and provide information to patients about the drugs and their use.

www.bls.gov

This should really be a sticky somewhere.

You don't understand. There are unemployed pharmacists right now. We have already reached the point of no return and there will never be a recovery. If all schools shut down right now, if a single PharmD was not given out for the next 10 years - it would still be supersaturated. Assuming class sizes decrease, going from 15,000 pharmDs per year to 14,000 PharmDs per year is not going to change anything.

I thought it was interesting that pharmacist parents (who are familiar with the job market situation) didn't stop their kids from going to pharmacy school.

 

[Timbo]

I have so many friends who are either pre-pharm or already in pharmacy school

That's exactly why it's so saturated. Everyone and their aunt want to become pharmacists. Projected pharmacist job growth is 0% btw

 

[DagS132]

Im starting to wonder if pharmacists are smart in general... There are so many ass backwards things I hear from this profession

 

[deleted898085]

Im starting to wonder if pharmacists are smart in general... There are so many ass backwards things I hear from this profession

No, they are not.
I can tell from my classmates. They have no idea about finance. They borrowed student loan at 7% to buy a car!

 

[deleted562805]

I thought it was interesting that pharmacist parents (who are familiar with the job market situation) didn't stop their kids from going to pharmacy school.

Because they know their kids can get a job because the parents know other pharmacists

 

[DagS132]

No, they are not.
I can tell from my classmates. They have no idea about finance. They borrowed student loan at 7% to buy a car!

I remember this one show called scrubs or something; I saw a small clip of one of their episodes where the doctors are making fun of dermatologists. Maybe it should have been pharmacists

 

[TerryTerry]

I thought it was interesting that pharmacist parents (who are familiar with the job market situation) didn't stop their kids from going to pharmacy school.

Honestly speaking, I believe those kids still have huge advantage over most other students in their class.

 

[AM77]

why do people still enter pharmacy when everyone says the field is super-saturated?
I have so many friends who are either pre-pharm or already in pharmacy school
Some of them have pharmacist parents who own independent pharmacy

Why do people still enter pharmacy? Money. There’s your answer. They all think that they’re automatically going to make six figures once they’re done with school. They tune out to everything else.
Pharmacy school recruiters. They’re the ones that actively seek new pharmacy students on college campuses and community colleges. They will lie about the reality of the profession if they have to.
Naive students. They don’t think. They just go with the flow.

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

The number of independent pharmacies is shrinking and reimbursement pressures and DIR fees threaten existing ones. If you google news "pharmacy news" there's always some week old post about some independent closing. Chain pharmacies aren't immune either-- to stay profitable many are shortening hours especially if there are multiple pharmacies in the same city. I doubt the situation is much better on the clinical side with residency-trained pharmacists also looking for jobs.

I still stand by the principles that a networked, hard-working, and geographically-versatile pharmacist will find employment in the field in some capacity, but the job market hasn't improved at all.

I made a post about PBM reform lawsuits. Some states already passed with unanimous votes in PBM regulations. This should be a game changer as far as illegitimate practice of PBMs with reimbursements and claw back fees. Once those are stabilized, there should be some breathing room and jobs should come back.

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

No, they are not.
I can tell from my classmates. They have no idea about finance. They borrowed student loan at 7% to buy a car!

May not be a bad idea. with the student loans, you can extend it out to 25 years and have it forgiven lolol shoot, car loans are stupid. i'm saving up for the next 5 years to buy a car in cash. never taking a car loan again.

 

[deleted898085]

May not be a bad idea. with the student loans, you can extend it out to 25 years and have it forgiven lolol shoot, car loans are stupid. i'm saving up for the next 5 years to buy a car in cash. never taking a car loan again.

I see.
I don't know now but in 2011 when I bought my Honda Fit, the loan is 1%
I see the forgiveness is nothing if they owe 200K and make 90k/year.
She owes 180K right now.
But who knows how much she'll be able to make in this market

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

I see.
I don't know now but in 2011 when I bought my Honda Fit, the loan is 1%
I see the forgiveness is nothing if they owe 200K and make 90k/year.
She owes 180K right now.
But who knows how much she'll be able to make in this market

yeah it's impossible to get a 1% interest on auto loans nowadays... i thought i had it cheap at 5% haha

 

[deleted898085]

yeah it's impossible to get a 1% interest on auto loans nowadays... i thought i had it cheap at 5% haha

1% was what I got with the Honda dealership.
I also got 5% with Nissan but then I refinanced with Chase Bank at 3.25% also in 2011 or 2012 when I bought the Nissan for my dad.

 

[Sleepingdoc]

1% was what I got with the Honda dealership.
I also got 5% with Nissan but then I refinanced with Chase Bank at 3.25% also in 2011 or 2012 when I bought the Nissan for my dad.

They make up that low "1% interest" from the price of the car... They will always win the deal..

 

[deleted898085]

They make up that low "1% interest" from the price of the car... They will always win the deal..

Probably, I forgot the exact price, either 15k or 16k, manual. I picked the cheapest Honda available there at the moment.

 

[MilknCheerios]

@VictorOfHungerGames

Yes, pay for it all upfront. Aim for a used car with low mileage from a reputable dealer. I bought a brand new car for 20k and while it was fun for a few years after a few dings and donks, I realized I paid too much for it. New cars are depreciating assets and they get you from point A to point B. They're not status symbols unless you're trying to impress a girl or something.

 

[Hels2007]

why do people still enter pharmacy when everyone says the field is super-saturated?

Why do people smoke when everyone says smoking causes all kinds of illnesses?
Why do people overeat when everyone says overeating causes obesity that causes all kinds of problems?
Etc. etc. etc.

 

[mentos]

I made a post about PBM reform lawsuits. Some states already passed with unanimous votes in PBM regulations. This should be a game changer as far as illegitimate practice of PBMs with reimbursements and claw back fees. Once those are stabilized, there should be some breathing room and jobs should come back.

If the companies are turning a profit with a skeleton crew, they're not going to hire a bunch of pharmacists for no reason. The extra profit will go straight into the CEO's pockets.

May not be a bad idea. with the student loans, you can extend it out to 25 years and have it forgiven lolol shoot, car loans are stupid. i'm saving up for the next 5 years to buy a car in cash. never taking a car loan again.

You're not paying down student loans yet it takes 5 years to save up for the cost of a car? Where's all your money going? I paid off 100k student loans in under 3 years.

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

If the companies are turning a profit with a skeleton crew, they're not going to hire a bunch of pharmacists for no reason. The extra profit will go straight into the CEO's pockets.



You're not paying down student loans yet it takes 5 years to save up for the cost of a car? Where's all your money going? I paid off 100k student loans in under 3 years.

Well, if work conditions at cvs dont improve even with PBM reform then better for us the independents. Lol.

I got better things to spend my money on than paying for student loans or buying a car.

 

[JustFillIt]

The best though - is this video..

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

why do people still enter pharmacy when everyone says the field is super-saturated?
I have so many friends who are either pre-pharm or already in pharmacy school
Some of them have pharmacist parents who own independent pharmacy

There won't be any independent pharmacies in 10 years.

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

There won't be any independent pharmacies in 10 years.

This depends on how much pbms are regulated. If current proposed laws pass, indies will dominate again. Just donated $500 for this cause. I think one of the eastern states passed the pbm laws and is going in effect 1/1/2021.

 

[Saiyo]

There won't be any independent pharmacies in 10 years.

I've been hearing this forever though....

 

[TerryTerry]

This depends on how much pbms are regulated. If current proposed laws pass, indies will dominate again. Just donated $500 for this cause. I think one of the eastern states passed the pbm laws and is going in effect 1/1/2021.

My pharmacy got a letter for $1000 of whatever we could afford. My owner didn`t donate any. haha. Thanks for the donation.

 

[JustFillIt]

This depends on how much pbms are regulated. If current proposed laws pass, indies will dominate again. Just donated $500 for this cause. I think one of the eastern states passed the pbm laws and is going in effect 1/1/2021.

Where can I donate independently?

I would be happy to donate an hour of work to this cause. If every pharmacist donated one hour of work (there are plenty of us now) this would be a huge boost. Why does Apha not propose this?

 

[PharmtoCS]

Jeez... I think nowadays pharmacy schools are competing for applicants
My friends who applied this cycle got accepted right after their interview
Some of them applied with zero shadowing and volunteering hours and still got in
(GPA barely above 3.0)
View attachment 296056

lol, the market for pharmacy students has hit saturation.

If only the pharmacy schools started closing sooner, the supply of new grads would decrease as well.

 

[DagS132]

The best though - is this video..

LMAO. That video showed people who didn't care about the job market but spoke about how there are so many different types of jobs while at the same time saying they don't know what kind of jobs are out there.