Is Pharmacy School Worth it?

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youngsoo1269

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If you've been keeping up with market trends, you'll know that pharmacy has become heavily saturated. Its expected to be an over population of 50k pharmacists by 2025. Residency is overly saturated as well. Even if you love pharmacy there might not be a job for you in the future. I've been thinking about going to pharmacy school but now I have my doubts. If I do follow through and get a PharmD what would be the best course of action?

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If you've been keeping up with market trends, you'll know that pharmacy has become heavily saturated. Its expected to be an over population of 50k pharmacists by 2025. Residency is overly saturated as well. Even if you love pharmacy there might not be a job for you in the future. I've been thinking about going to pharmacy school but now I have my doubts. If I do follow through and get a PharmD what would be the best course of action?
Everyone loves to think that they'll be immune if they "work hard, make connections, be better than everyone else.." blah blah blah. Certainly not true. Seriously, you know that schools have exponentially expanded class sizes, new schools are opening daily, and the Naplex is getting more difficult to deal with the saturation issues, then why bother? This field is dearly screwed. Do something else. I say this not as a pessimistic jerk, but somebody who doesn't to see future students take on loads of debt with crappy job prospects. Look at threads on here: people are being accepted while being in the 30th percentile on the PCAT. The truly frightening aspect to me is the frequency at which people are being turned down/waitlisted compared to 5 years ago. Reading through a bunch of these threads makes it seem as it doesn't happen anymore. This is downright abysmal. The prepharmers and P1s who tell you not to worry will be singing a different tune in 5 years. And to those who say be flexible and you'll get a job: what happens when THOSE jobs are filled? This is a terrible investment, please do yourself a favor and find another field.
 
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I agree totally. I got 93 on the PCAT with minimal studying and I'm seeing people aiming for 50's. Pharmacy is not what it used to be. What do you think about PA?
Physicians are moving away from family care and PA/NP are filling those spots. While its true that they too may have a saturation issue to deal with, they can easily fill roles that pharmacists cannot. PA would be a much better bet.
 
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Do pharmacy only when you really like it and don't like anything else.
 
Pharmacy is a terrible investment for the amount of loan money you will be taking out and the poor job prospects you will face. All the pre-pharms and P1s will tell you its fine and that all you have to do is work hard, stand out, and network, but a lot of us are taught that we're special snowflake and we'll be the exception to the cold, hard principle of supply and demand.

There are other professions, i.e. computer programming, engineering, finance, accounting, PA, etc. that pay just as well, offer better job outlooks, allow you to live a better quality of life, and do not require you to graduate with $200k+ in loans and spend another 4 years in school.
 
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There are other professions, i.e. computer programming, engineering, finance, accounting, PA, etc. that pay just as well, offer better job outlooks, allow you to live a better quality of life, and do not require you to graduate with $200k+ in loans and spend another 4 years in school.
That "virus post" I read in almost every thread.
Let me ask you! How do you expect a person who is more into schience, not because he/she spent 4 years undergraduate studying schience, let's say the hardest biochemistry.. All of a sudden switch to programming? For example I would struggle with it, or finance, or anything. Our brain is not universal. Some people good at math some at literature.
 
Everyone loves to think that they'll be immune if they "work hard, make connections, be better than everyone else.." blah blah blah. Certainly not true.
It's all about connection, working hard and getting it.
Who are you? Are you responsible for dispensing jobs to these pharmacists?
 
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If you've been keeping up with market trends, you'll know that pharmacy has become heavily saturated. Its expected to be an over population of 50k pharmacists by 2025. Residency is overly saturated as well. Even if you love pharmacy there might not be a job for you in the future. I've been thinking about going to pharmacy school but now I have my doubts. If I do follow through and get a PharmD what would be the best course of action?

I would pass if you want to live in a saturated area and have a big loan. I would sign on if you will have small loan/no loan and want to live in an unpopular area. A huge drawback to RX is that it is a doctorate, you cant really go back to school for other things except MD or coding bootcamp.
 
It's all about connection, working hard and getting it.
Who are you? Are you responsible for dispensing jobs to these pharmacists?
I am somebody who lives in reality, unlike yourself. There are MULTIPLE studies that show how bad the saturation will be. Go ahead and keep telling yourself lies, but do not drag the young prepharmers into by telling them they'll be fine. And ill link two studies for you at the bottom here so you can see for yourself Im not just making it up. These are government ran studies not some third party entity, they have no reason to make this up. All pharmacy publications have addressed it, the only entities who havent? The schools themselves, and take ONE guess why that is....

Also do yourself another favor and Google search how many jobs are available in your area, since as a prepharmer you are so in tuned.with the market.


https://www.bls.gov/ooh/healthcare/mobile/pharmacists.htm

https://bhw.hrsa.gov/sites/default/...rimary-care-national-projections2013-2025.pdf
 
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I am somebody who lives in reality, unlike yourself. There are MULTIPLE studies that show how bad the saturation will be. Go ahead and keep telling yourself lies, but do not drag the young prepharmers into by telling them they'll be fine. And ill link two studies for you at the bottom here so you can see for yourself Im not just making it up. These are government ran studies not some third party entity, they have no reason to make this up. All pharmacy publications have addressed it, the only entities who havent? The schools themselves, and take ONE guess why that is....

Also do yourself another favor and Google search how many jobs are available in your area, since as a prepharmer you are so in tuned.with the market.


https://www.bls.gov/ooh/healthcare/mobile/pharmacists.htm

https://bhw.hrsa.gov/sites/default/...rimary-care-national-projections2013-2025.pdf
You are googling. I'm talking to real people and pharmcasist. At least in New York where I live jobs are available, positions are available. Google scares you, rumors scare you. But it's durable. And I am not encouraging new people to go for his career, only if you yourself want, and your GPA and stuff like that prove it.
 
You are googling. I'm talking to real people and pharmcasist. At least in New York where I live jobs are available, positions are available. Google scares you, rumors scare you. But it's durable. And I am not encouraging new people to go for his career, only if you yourself want, and your GPA and stuff like that prove it.
Another prepharmer who lives outside the realm of reality. Sadly, there are more than 15,000 students graduating every year and top that with countless H1b visa holders being hired, you keep telling yourself you're special and immune to the effects of saturation because your dean, manager, and parents tell you that you're different than everyone else with your hardworking attitude. In 4 years when you are struggling to find a decent job in an area you want to work you cant say you werent warned.

And one last thought, we come with concrete proof about saturation yet you in the opinion of the opposite cannot come with any proof of your claims.
 
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Another prepharmer who lives outside the realm of reality. Sadly, there are more than 15,000 students graduating every year and top that with countless H1b visa holders being hired, you keep telling yourself you're special and immune to the effects of saturation because your dean, manager, and parents tell you that you're different than everyone else with your hardworking attitude. In 4 years when you are struggling to find a decent job in an area you want to work you cant say you werent warned.

And one last thought, we come with concrete proof about saturation yet you in the opinion of the opposite cannot come with any proof of your claims.


You are citing H1B visa holders as a reason to be scared. Well, we are living under under a new administration. I believe that visas will be reduced. So, the idea of countless visa holders are being hired is a moot point.

Schools are another point in entirety. I have talked with pharmacists and they told me it's not a guarantee of a job but really what industry guarantees you to a job. I went to school to be a teacher and they said they had a shortage. Last year, a total of 10 positions in my state were available for hiring with my license. I applied but I still didn't get a job. I got paid to go to school for my area and can't find a job? The job market is tight anyways. Engineering is becoming saturated, IT is becoming saturated, and I am just pointing to professions that people suggest people to research. Nursing is not as easy to get a job in anymore. The job market is still recovering from the recession.
 
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I have known people who majored in bio and went onto work for tech companies in completely unrelated fields ranging from programming to administration.

A coding bootcamp only costs $10k and 3-4 months. Pharmacy school costs $200k+ and 4 years. Why would you risk so much of your time and money for the latter only to become unemployed?
 
I have known people who majored in bio and went onto work for tech companies in completely unrelated fields ranging from programming to administration.

A coding bootcamp only costs $10k and 3-4 months. Pharmacy school costs $200k+ and 4 years. Why would you risk so much of your time and money for the latter only to become unemployed?
But what if you don't like coding? That is a waste of 10,000 dollars just as much as pharmacy would be a waste of 200k if you didn't like it. My point is that nothing is guaranteed these days. You have to have a knack for engineering to make the kind of money that you are talking about. Most engineers won't see the annual salary a pharmacist would for at least a few years. Yes, it's shorter time to go to school but you still have to intern and you still have to work entry level at a reduced rate. My point is to do what you want to do and live a life that you enjoy. I wouldn't enjoy being a software engineering so guess what, I am not going to be a software engineer. I took a career interest survey and all the careers came up as medical.
 
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But what if you don't like coding? That is a waste of 10,000 dollars just as much as pharmacy would be a waste of 200k if you didn't like it. My point is that nothing is guaranteed these days. You have to have a knack for engineering to make the kind of money that you are talking about. Most engineers won't see the annual salary a pharmacist would for at least a few years. Yes, it's shorter time to go to school but you still have to intern and you still have to work entry level at a reduced rate. My point is to do what you want to do and live a life that you enjoy. I wouldn't enjoy being a software engineering so guess what, I am not going to be a software engineer. I took a career interest survey and all the careers came up as medical.
The other careers do not require the time or money and can easily be switched. Going into pharmacy is one of the worst bets, right after dentistry and law. These kids say they love pharmacy yet have never stepped foot behind the counter, they fall for this romanticized idea that their parents and school deans tell them, which is very very false. Why do you think so many burn out of retail so quick? Its nothing like the school told them it would be like.
 
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Everyone loves to think that they'll be immune if they "work hard, make connections, be better than everyone else.." blah blah blah. Certainly not true.
TRUTH!!!!

People DO say this. And it's garbage. Sometimes, you can't do better than everyone else. Human beings have finite limitations. There are people in my class who are smarter and more academically inclined than me. Of course, I do better when I work harder. But no matter how many hours I put in to my studies, there are others who are faster memorizers than me, because I'm not #1 in my class. And that will always be the case. But this isn't even what bothers me the most about pharmacy. It's the butt kissing that makes me INFURIATED. You know, when you KNOW you're more qualified than another candidate, but that other candidate still gets the job/position over you regardless, because they kissed some professor's butt or "know" someone who already works at the place. Call it "networking," or whatever you will, but it's discrimination on a broad-scale level. And unfortunately, it's hard to prove, and it's difficult to stop. If you don't feel comfortable cheating and taking opportunities from classmates and friends to obtain your employment, don't do pharmacy. UNLESS you happen to be that genius who is #1 in their class while also being the class president, saving a third world country, mastering the cello, and raising four of your own and two adopted children.

I would honestly recommend becoming a physician assistant or nurse instead of a pharmacist, unless your heart and soul is 100% set on pharmacy. I do hear nursing is becoming a little more saturated, but I think their job outlook is still doing pretty well.

The BLS stats have finally updated to show that job growth for pharmacists is "slower than average." https://www.bls.gov/ooh/healthcare/pharmacists.

The national unemployment for pharmacists is at 1.7%. Which I honestly don't believe. But then again, this number doesn't take into account the number of "underemployed" (AKA: PRN) pharmacists that are out there.

I recently spoke with several classmates who interviewed at a career fair, and a ton of community pharmacies start you out as a "floater." You don't work at one particular store, but float between them, and some of your job assignments end up on short notice. They also want you to be licensed in more than one state, and you may have to work in a store that's an hour or more away from where you live so many times per week, etc.

Job opportunities are out there, but they're not necessarily ideal. It is possible to have a successful and rewarding career as a pharmacist. But you're going to have to work your butt off to get there. And your job won't necessarily be secure.
 
Oh, and by the way, don't believe what any college of pharmacy tells you. They want your tuition $$$. And they will feed you lies.
 
If you want to work in a hospital or want patient interaction/clinical duties I'd probably choose something else like MD or NP. Most jobs are in retail and a lot of the hospitals are requiring residency now. I personally like retail better... plus it doesn't require residency, pays more, and has more job opportunities so it's kind of a win for me though the student debt is still very scary. About half of my class wants to be a clinical pharmacist in some hospital, a lot of them are going to be disappointed.

When WAGS and CVS aren't hiring is when you know that the sky is falling. We aren't there yet but I think we will probably reach that point before things get any better.
 
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Hmm. Tough one. In many fields, there is a "the sky is falling" attitude about the future. You have to take it with a grain of salt. That being said, there have been a lot of new pharmacy schools opening in recent years, and the simple concept of supply and demand will play out. Just like any other market, the pharmacist job market will have high points and low points. The high point for pharmacists was perhaps 2005-ish (big salary increases and big fat sign-on bonuses) and we probably are heading toward a low point (stagnant salaries and no sign-on bonuses) - as the data suggests. Right now, where I am, I see job opportunities, but they are eh (not great jobs). It would be wise right now, given the current market trend, to consider other options with an open mind... unless you have been dreaming of becoming a pharmacist since you were a child and you can't ever imagine doing anything else. Keep in mind, certain areas of the country will have jobs when the rest of the country won't. For instance, if you're willing to relocate to a relatively remote area, you'll probably be able to get a job in almost any market. If you haven't done this already, I would also recommend working in a retail pharmacy at least part time as a cashier or pharmacy technician during high school or undergrad before committing to pharmacy school. About two-thirds of pharmacist jobs are in retail pharmacies, so that is most likely where you will end up. Experiencing the reality of retail pharmacy will provide a lot of clarity. I know people who went to pharmacy school without ever working in a pharmacy. Once they were too far in to turn back, they realized it wasn't for them. I worked in retail during undergrad. A lot of pharmacists tried to warn me to get out before it was too late. I ignored them. Whatever. Do what you want to do. It's America. Just be aware of reality so it doesn't hit you in the face when you're least expecting it.
 
My opinion is that pharmacy skills alone doesn't get you a job in the job market(70% sure). There would be new field related to computers, which is why i'm aiming for informatics right now.
 
My opinion is that pharmacy skills alone doesn't get you a job in the job market(70% sure). There would be new field related to computers, which is why i'm aiming for informatics right now.

If you like informatics then I would just study informatics instead of taking the roundabout way of trying to get into informatics via pharmacy.

Sure, PharmD is very versatile. There is not only informatics but also industry, managed care, long term care, nuclear, academia, critical care, pediatrics, emergency medicine, infectious diseases, mental health, etc. but you're probably 5-7 times more likely to end up in retail compared to all of these different areas combined, let alone informatics.

There is one major health system I know of that spans several states and has several dozen hospitals...and about a dozen or so informatics pharmacists total.


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I appreciate all the information posted here, I really do! It helps pharmacy school applicants reconsider their choice and have a chance to ask themselves if this is a right career for them, before too late. However, this topic about job saturation in pharmacy is getting old.

People keep mentioning the simple concept about supply and demand to explain for that, but never go any further than that. So, I'd like to pitch in another simple economical concept that everybody should already know. If we have too many students graduating as pharmacists, and the job market can't take all of them (this is what they call "job saturation"), then there should be a higher competition for the job positions. As an employer I'd want the best pharmacist working for me if I have 20 people applying for 1 position. At the end of the day, the other 19 pharmacists who aren't as good will be unemployed with the 200k debt, and start to warn everybody who wants to be pharmacists. Guess what? this is not new, this is basic macroeconomics principle, this is how capitalism in our country works! It's all about competition. If your product is not better than your competitor's, you'll have a problem with your revenue. As a result, you, as a customer, have the best product possible delivered to your doorstep. Similarly, the result of this "job saturation" for pharmacists will lead to a generation of best pharmacists who are good enough to compete with other 19 qualified people to get that job. It'll only make the career better with better healthcare workers. And, this doesn't just happen particularly for future pharmacists. I bet you some great researchers will be able to tell you the same thing in any career at some point in the future, or the past, or now (like pharmacists career). Now the question is, are you that ONE who gets that job? Are you willing to take that opportunity (or risk)? Do you want it bad enough and fight for it? I guess nobody else can answer that for you.

As an pharmacy school applicant, I encourage everyone to be aware of the job outlook as well as important facts about the job. However, I think no one should be discouraged about the "hype" of job saturation conversations, especially if you're sure this is your dream job, and you'd rather be remembered as a pharmacist (by your grandkids) than anything else. Best of luck with other applicants this year! Go live your dream, not someone else's!
 
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I appreciate all the information posted here, I really do! It helps pharmacy school applicants reconsider their choice and have a chance to ask themselves if this is a right career for them, before too late. However, this topic about job saturation in pharmacy is getting old.

People keep mentioning the simple concept about supply and demand to explain for that, but never go any further than that. So, I'd like to pitch in another simple economical concept that everybody should already know. If we have too many students graduating as pharmacists, and the job market can't take all of them (this is what they call "job saturation"), then there should be a higher competition for the job positions. As an employer I'd want the best pharmacist working for me if I have 20 people applying for 1 position. At the end of the day, the other 19 pharmacists who aren't as good will be unemployed with the 200k debt, and start to warn everybody who wants to be pharmacists. Guess what? this is not new, this is basic macroeconomics principle, this is how capitalism in our country works! It's all about competition. If your product is not better than your competitor's, you'll have a problem with your revenue. As a result, you, as a customer, have the best product possible delivered to your doorstep. Similarly, the result of this "job saturation" for pharmacists will lead to a generation of best pharmacists who are good enough to compete with other 19 qualified people to get that job. It'll only make the career better with better healthcare workers. And, this doesn't just happen particularly for future pharmacists. I bet you some great researchers will be able to tell you the same thing in any career at some point in the future, or the past, or now (like pharmacists career). Now the question is, are you that ONE who gets that job? Are you willing to take that opportunity (or risk)? Do you want it bad enough and fight for it? I guess nobody else can answer that for you.

As an pharmacy school applicant, I encourage everyone to be aware of the job outlook as well as important facts about the job. However, I think no one should be discouraged about the "hype" of job saturation conversations, especially if you're sure this is your dream job, and you'd rather be remembered as a pharmacist (by your grandkids) than anything else. Best of luck with other applicants this year! Go live your dream, not someone else's!
 
As of about a year ago some state boards of pharmacy have approved centralized counseling or some similar scheme..This means that a pharmacist at one central location is data and video linked to several satellite dispensaries that are staffed by technicians. As you can see..that means one pharmacist is doing what three or four used to do..management loves it for various reasons..esp in rural areas where....there's a shortage...
 
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As an employer I'd want the best pharmacist working for me if I have 20 people applying for 1 position. At the end of the day, the other 19 pharmacists who aren't as good will be unemployed with the 200k debt, and start to warn everybody who wants to be pharmacists. Guess what? this is not new, this is basic macroeconomics principle, this is how capitalism in our country works! It's all about competition. If your product is not better than your competitor's, you'll have a problem with your revenue. As a result, you, as a customer, have the best product possible delivered to your doorstep. Similarly, the result of this "job saturation" for pharmacists will lead to a generation of best pharmacists who are good enough to compete with other 19 qualified people to get that job. It'll only make the career better with better healthcare workers. And, this doesn't just happen particularly for future pharmacists. I bet you some great researchers will be able to tell you the same thing in any career at some point in the future, or the past, or now (like pharmacists career). Now the question is, are you that ONE who gets that job? Are you willing to take that opportunity (or risk)? Do you want it bad enough and fight for it? I guess nobody else can answer that for you.

Except that out of the 19 other applicants that get rejected, about 10-15 of them are probably not even qualified for the job. This is what happens when pharmacy schools accept just about anyone who applies, even those with <2.5 GPAs, <30 PCATs, and no work experience.

Graduating more pharmacists each year doesn't make the profession better. It only dilutes the profession with subpar pharmacists while stronger applicants move on to medicine, dentistry, physician assistant, software engineering, finance, etc. that pay better, offer more room for growth, require less debt, and/or are more prestigious.
 
Except that out of the 19 other applicants that get rejected, about 10-15 of them are probably not even qualified for the job. This is what happens when pharmacy schools accept just about anyone who applies, even those with <2.5 GPAs, <30 PCATs, and no work experience.

Graduating more pharmacists each year doesn't make the profession better. It only dilutes the profession with subpar pharmacists while stronger applicants move on to medicine, dentistry, physician assistant, software engineering, finance, etc. that pay better, offer more room for growth, require less debt, and/or are more prestigious.

Well like you said, if 10-15 of them aren't even qualified, isn't that even better for the people who really want to be pharmacists? That'd be good news for me. And those people, who aim for high salary and fame in professions not their ability and interest, when they move on to other more prestigious fields, I don't know what would guarantee them to be more competitive than other people. They might get better jobs in those fields and be happier, which I hope they do because everybody works hard for that reason, or they might just end up in the same situation as they're now being unemployed pharmacists. It may sound cliche' but to me, it all comes down to who we want to become in choosing a career. It's not fair to only blame the profession when we can't find jobs. It's true that the society might not need more pharmacists in the future because of the advance in technology, there might even be less pharmacists needed, but the job won't be going away that easy or anytime soon. It'll always be there for the right people to accomplish. And not because the profession might get "diluted" that an unqualified person can stand there as a pharmacist and poison the whole community because of his or her incompetence. Less qualified people going in will just reduce the heat in job finding competition. The profession standards won't be lowered because of incompetent workers. Would anyone go to a doctor knowing he/she can't help you feel better? Would anyone hire a mechanic if he/she can't fix your car problem? I don't think so.
 
Well like you said, if 10-15 of them aren't even qualified, isn't that even better for the people who really want to be pharmacists? That'd be good news for me. And those people, who aim for high salary and fame in professions not their ability and interest, when they move on to other more prestigious fields, I don't know what would guarantee them to be more competitive than other people. They might get better jobs in those fields and be happier, which I hope they do because everybody works hard for that reason, or they might just end up in the same situation as they're now being unemployed pharmacists. It may sound cliche' but to me, it all comes down to who we want to become in choosing a career. It's not fair to only blame the profession when we can't find jobs. It's true that the society might not need more pharmacists in the future because of the advance in technology, there might even be less pharmacists needed, but the job won't be going away that easy or anytime soon. It'll always be there for the right people to accomplish. And not because the profession might get "diluted" that an unqualified person can stand there as a pharmacist and poison the whole community because of his or her incompetence. Less qualified people going in will just reduce the heat in job finding competition. The profession standards won't be lowered because of incompetent workers. Would anyone go to a doctor knowing he/she can't help you feel better? Would anyone hire a mechanic if he/she can't fix your car problem? I don't think so.

You bring up some good points but i continue to caution undergrads on rx.
When i was in undergrad (2006) my desired area was doing 40-50K sign on (not a joke)...by graduation it was cut to 25K...now its full (but will prob bonus 15-20k when a position opens)
class fees have increased largely even if salaries havent...
RX can be good but such a big investment for an unsure future....
 
To me it was worth it. But I am not sure what will happen in 10 years, it may be not worth at all...
If I was starting out now I probably would not go into pharmacy
 
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The profession standards won't be lowered because of incompetent workers. Would anyone go to a doctor knowing he/she can't help you feel better? Would anyone hire a mechanic if he/she can't fix your car problem? I don't think so.

Except that it doesn't really work this way. We're dealing with peoples' lives here, not cars. The pharmacy profession became regulated in the first place because quacks were marketing poison as cures for all sorts of ailments, just as we don't allow rickety substandard buildings to be built and hope that people vote in their money by not living in them. Standards are put in place for a reason.

The reason is that money has a much greater influence than perception of quality. Chain pharmacies could care less about competence of pharmacists other than how fast they can verify and how many flu shots they give; they care more about how little they can pay its workers.
 
If you've been keeping up with market trends, you'll know that pharmacy has become heavily saturated. Its expected to be an over population of 50k pharmacists by 2025. Residency is overly saturated as well. Even if you love pharmacy there might not be a job for you in the future. I've been thinking about going to pharmacy school but now I have my doubts. If I do follow through and get a PharmD what would be the best course of action?

FYI, the company i have been working for the last 5 years just implemented a salary freeze. No more raises or bonuses. According to corporate 40% of new grads are unemployed. In one district, there are 20+ pharmacists looking for hours just to have at least 30 hours per week.
 
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