Is pharmacy still worth 200k in loans?

[alpha12]

I ask this question because i was reading this article and it made me think there are many ways to get high paying jobs and less school. why do people still consider pharmacy?

Walmart to give its 8,000 truck drivers pay raise next month


"

• Walmart has been aggressively recruiting truckers amid a truck driver shortage.
• On Wednesday, the mega-retailer announced that its 8,000 truck drivers are getting a raise starting February.
• First-year Walmart truckers are now eligible to earn $87,500 on average, up from $86,000.

Walmart has overhauled the way it recruits, trains, and pays truck drivers considerably in the past year as America faces a truck driver shortage. A lack of trucking labor has recently upped prices of everything from toothpaste to Amazon Prime. America will be short 175,000 truckers by 2026, according to the American Trucking Association."

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[Amicable Angora]

Current risk versus rewards profile is not favorable.

 

[Momus]

lol @ trucking...
I just can't...

 

[BC_89]

Well, I suppose to put it another way: Why don’t people join the military and pay penny’s on a dollar for health insurance? Plus, you get housing paid for (tax free if you go off post) and a tax free food stipend on top of a paycheck with guaranteed raises every year. If you get hurt working for the “company” you may have a pension for life and family medical coverage at a fraction of the cost!

Because some people would rather spend time with family and friends when off the clock (daily), not constantly be moving or on the road away from home, and something about working in the A/C on a hot day and clean environment in one location seems to make work a little more predictable when getting a paycheck.

Plus, despite lower wages, how many families in middle class get $50 an hour in a clean environment knowing your going home every day?

 

[alpha12]

lol @ trucking...
I just can't...

As demand increases pay will probably eclipse pharmacy soon. It's already at 90k. And pharmacy pay is declining.

 

[alpha12]

Well, I suppose to put it another way: Why don’t people join the military and pay penny’s on a dollar for health insurance? Plus, you get housing paid for (tax free if you go off post) and a tax free food stipend on top of a paycheck with guaranteed raises every year. If you get hurt working for the “company” you may have a pension for life and family medical coverage at a fraction of the cost!

Because some people would rather spend time with family and friends when off the clock (daily), not constantly be moving or on the road away from home, and something about working in the A/C on a hot day and clean environment in one location seems to make work a little more predictable when getting a paycheck.

Plus, despite lower wages, how many families in middle class get $50 an hour in a clean environment knowing your going home every day?

Many pharmacists have poor worklife balance and have to work crappy hours.

 

[Momus]

Many pharmacists have poor worklife balance and have to work crappy hours.

What do you think truckers have?

 

[mentos]

No.

 

[projektreverb]

To answer the original question: Hell ^ No

 

[alpha12]

What do you think truckers have?

My point was it is not valid argument to compare worklife balance because pharmacy has none. I know a few new grads that will be separated from their families because they had to move to find a job and will have to work poor hours. Also you have the added stress that you can't make mistakes because if you do not only is someone's life at stake but so is your career.

 

[owlegrad]

My point was it is not valid argument to compare worklife balance because pharmacy has none. I know a few new grads that will be separated from their families because they had to move to find a job and will have to work poor hours. Also you have the added stress that you can't make mistakes because if you do not only is someone's life at stake but so is your career.

If you make a mistake trucking you could die or kill someone. And the work life balance of a trucker is much worse than a pharmacist.

Trucking isn’t a bad job at all. Certainly less of an investment that pharmacy. But there is a reason there is a shortage. Comparing the two is apples and oranges.


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[alpha12]

If you make a mistake trucking you could die or kill someone. And the work life balance of a trucker is much worse than a pharmacist.

Trucking isn’t a bad job at all. Certainly less of an investment that pharmacy. But there is a reason there is a shortage. Comparing the two is apples and oranges.


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I really doubt trucking is that dangerous if you know what you are doing. It could be exhausting but so is being a pharmacist. My total commute time is 4 hours and I have never gotten into an accident for the 15 years I have been driving and this is in the rough chicago winters. I also think you fail to see my point. I never said that trucking is an alternative to pharmacy. I am just saying that students considering going to pharm school need to do a greater analysis when deciding if taking a loan equivalent to a home mortgage is worth it when the salary at the end is not more than careers that require no to little education such as trucking, law enforcement, being a pilot, being a garbageman. And many people dont go to pharm school because of love of looking at pretty pills, they did it because they thought it was a quick way to make money. It used to be 6 years of school and then high paying jobs with sign on bonuses and free cars. Now its 4 years of under grad, 4 years of pharmacy school, and 2-4 years of residency to get a job that doens't pay as much as it used to. So if you want a quick way to make money, look elsewhere.

 

[owlegrad]

I really doubt trucking is that dangerous if you know what you are doing.

I really doubt pharmacy is that dangerous if you know what you are doing.

And four hour commute everyday for 15 years without an accident?! You should be a truck driver!


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[Momus]

I really doubt pharmacy is that dangerous if you know what you are doing.

And four hour commute everyday for 15 years without an accident?! You should be a truck driver!

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I know what a long commute does to people. That's 43 days/year of actual time behind the wheels of wasted time, health, gas, car value with no pay. Feeling like crap all the time because you don't have enough rest. Sucks to be him!

 

[alpha12]

I really doubt pharmacy is that dangerous if you know what you are doing.

And four hour commute everyday for 15 years without an accident?! You should be a truck driver!


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Or a floating pharmacist. And I have seen the most competent pharmacists make mistakes and having to do a incident report.

 

[MrBonita]

"Generally, trucking school costs between $3,000 and $7,000 for the entire program. Much depends on whether you want a class A or a class B CDL license and which endorsements you want to earn. The more time you have to spend training to earn your chosen license, the more you should plan on spending on tuition."

Lets do the math. Borrow 200k and make around 140k a year for pharmacist.

Borrow 7k and make 87k a year for a trucker.

Over a 20 year period.

Pharmacist needs 8 years of school (4 year bs and 4 year pharm.d). so 140 x 12 (-200k) = 1.480k

Trucker needs 1 year of school. so 87 x 19 (-7k) = 1.646k

After 20 years you will be at the same place. But remember that pharmacists are in a higher tax bracket so in general, the trucker might be about the same.

 

[gwarm01]

I don't know that pharmacy was ever worth 200k. I just wish I could have received my education for under 100k.

 

[lord999]

Well, I suppose to put it another way: Why don’t people join the military and pay penny’s on a dollar for health insurance? Plus, you get housing paid for (tax free if you go off post) and a tax free food stipend on top of a paycheck with guaranteed raises every year. If you get hurt working for the “company” you may have a pension for life and family medical coverage at a fraction of the cost!

Because some people would rather spend time with family and friends when off the clock (daily), not constantly be moving or on the road away from home, and something about working in the A/C on a hot day and clean environment in one location seems to make work a little more predictable when getting a paycheck.

Plus, despite lower wages, how many families in middle class get $50 an hour in a clean environment knowing your going home every day?

Because you downplay the low but present risk of fast lead poisoning, involuntary metal ingestion, and the more mundane and common issues of sleeping rough, being institutionalized, and the not so small risk of psychological damage. It's a living, and it's not an easy one.

If you ever go back as uniformed, try being an officer where you're in charge in the adult day care center for a change, where personnel issues keep your real day to day work from getting done. If you really want your sense of humanity challenged on the honor of the service, try being a Provost Marshal or something in the Control branch. It reminds one that there are all kinds of people here too, and not necessarily the Honorable or General Discharge types of people, those are the happily quiet norm but they have their moments. Closest thing in the enlisted is a First or a Chief, but they work on delegated authority and the dirty work is passed uphill. Not saying their jobs as vulnerable middle managers don't suck, they do, but they do not have command responsibility for their decisions as if the follow the process, the outcome is not career threatening for them as it is for officers.

And on the topic of pharmacy, because the stress and performance pressure gets to you. I know that this office job is better than most, but I don't have the illusion that this work is pain free. Other places in the world where pharmacy pays less, their workers are correspondingly less productive in general.

 

[alpha12]

"Generally, trucking school costs between $3,000 and $7,000 for the entire program. Much depends on whether you want a class A or a class B CDL license and which endorsements you want to earn. The more time you have to spend training to earn your chosen license, the more you should plan on spending on tuition."

Lets do the math. Borrow 200k and make around 140k a year for pharmacist.

Borrow 7k and make 87k a year for a trucker.

Over a 20 year period.

Pharmacist needs 8 years of school (4 year bs and 4 year pharm.d). so 140 x 12 (-200k) = 1.480k

Trucker needs 1 year of school. so 87 x 19 (-7k) = 1.646k

After 20 years you will be at the same place. But remember that pharmacists are in a higher tax bracket so in general, the trucker might be about the same.

140k a year? That some pretty optimistic math right there. And you didnt factor in residency which many kids are doing now a days.

 

[BC_89]

Many pharmacists have poor worklife balance and have to work crappy hours.

So did I....in the military....24 hour watch duty one day and off to field training two days later...then my occasional 3-8 months away from home.

Point is, it’s perspective. Risk factor of pharmacy and income is low on the totem pole compared to many other jobs. Especially truck drivers (I tip my hat to them and what they go through).

 

[MrBonita]

I did some research and found out a really bad thing about trucking.

30 People Share Their Gross And Gritty Experiences With Truck Stop Prostitutes

 

[BC_89]

Because you downplay the low but present risk of fast lead poisoning, involuntary metal ingestion, and the more mundane and common issues of sleeping rough, being institutionalized, and the not so small risk of psychological damage. It's a living, and it's not an easy one.

If you ever go back as uniformed, try being an officer where you're in charge in the adult day care center for a change, where personnel issues keep your real day to day work from getting done. If you really want your sense of humanity challenged on the honor of the service, try being a Provost Marshal or something in the Control branch. It reminds one that there are all kinds of people here too, and not necessarily the Honorable or General Discharge types of people, those are the happily quiet norm but they have their moments. Closest thing in the enlisted is a First or a Chief, but they work on delegated authority and the dirty work is passed uphill. Not saying their jobs as vulnerable middle managers don't suck, they do, but they do not have command responsibility for their decisions as if the follow the process, the outcome is not career threatening for them as it is for officers.

And on the topic of pharmacy, because the stress and performance pressure gets to you. I know that this office job is better than most, but I don't have the illusion that this work is pain free. Other places in the world where pharmacy pays less, their workers are correspondingly less productive in general.

Correct. Just as if truck drivers when comparing salary potentials to pharmacy is being downplayed with work-life-balance. All jobs have their moments of stress and hours, but I would’ve picked a better comparison than say, needed truck-drivers.

 

[BC_89]

My point was it is not valid argument to compare worklife balance because pharmacy has none. I know a few new grads that will be separated from their families because they had to move to find a job and will have to work poor hours. Also you have the added stress that you can't make mistakes because if you do not only is someone's life at stake but so is your career.

Sounds very similar to my comparison.....

Again, the fine line here is perspective. To each their own.

 

[owlegrad]

And I have seen the most competent pharmacists make mistakes and having to do a incident report.

And I have seen the most competent truckers make mistakes and have points put on their CDL.

Actually I have two truckers in my family. One run over a parked car that he didn't see and thankfully no one was hurt. The other had a biker pull into his lane and presumably suicide by trucker (ran directly into the grill of the truck with no time for the trucker to hit the breaks or do anything about it).

I mean that extreme case isn't really relevant to comparing the two jobs but if we are going down the route of comparing anecdotal evidence, by all means let's do this.

 

[MrBonita]

My friend owns a refrigerated truck and drives and delivers seafood. He has a nicer house, nicer car, and a hotter wife. He started working right out of high school. His father was also a refrigerated truck driver. After I graduated pharmacy school, the guy already had a house, Porsche, and several hot girlfriends. Those guys make 100k a year. I remember him driving a M3 to pick me up because I drove an old beat up crapper.

Local Owner Operator Refrigerated Truck Driver Annual Salary ($103,545 Avg | Jan 2019) - ZipRecruiter

 

[NITRAS]

How long do y’all think till we have driverless trucks?

 

[alpha12]

How long do y’all think till we have driverless trucks?

We will probably get pharmacistless pharmacies before that. Actually isn't that already a thing?

 

[PharmtoCS]

Just be a software engineer if you can handle the cognitive aspect. You make on average $100k/year for a far better quality of life, i.e. no weekends/evenings/nights, actually getting lunch breaks, no getting cussed out by belligerent customers, getting to sit in a chair, etc. You also do not have to spend weeks away from home and risk getting DVTs as truckers do.

How Much Can a Software Developer Expect to Get Paid?

 

[grizzlesgrizzlies]

Lets do the math. Borrow 200k and make around 140k a year for pharmacist.

Where is this 140k job other than in management? Been doing this for 10 years and never made anywhere close to 140k

 

[gwarm01]

When did you graduate? Mine was around 100k and my loans are thankfully gone. They felt like shackles and now that they are gone I can be something else

I graduated in 2013. Including undergrad, my total student loan debt was about 150k. Apparently that is bargain these days.

 

[wagrxm2000]

Are we really comparing a job where you sit and drive for hours a day, not seeing your family sometimes for over a week to a pharmacist?

 

[wagrxm2000]

"Generally, trucking school costs between $3,000 and $7,000 for the entire program. Much depends on whether you want a class A or a class B CDL license and which endorsements you want to earn. The more time you have to spend training to earn your chosen license, the more you should plan on spending on tuition."

Lets do the math. Borrow 200k and make around 140k a year for pharmacist.

Borrow 7k and make 87k a year for a trucker.

Over a 20 year period.

Pharmacist needs 8 years of school (4 year bs and 4 year pharm.d). so 140 x 12 (-200k) = 1.480k

Trucker needs 1 year of school. so 87 x 19 (-7k) = 1.646k

After 20 years you will be at the same place. But remember that pharmacists are in a higher tax bracket so in general, the trucker might be about the same.

Your math is wrong in a couple areas. I believe a truck driver has to be 21, the average pay is still in the high 40s even though Walmart is paying more plus pharmacists don't have to go to school for 8 years.

 

[stevephhs016]

Walmart raises pay for truck drivers - CNN

They are considering lowering age to 18.

 

[BC_89]

Are we really comparing a job where you sit and drive for hours a day, not seeing your family sometimes for over a week to a pharmacist?

^ this is my kind of perception

 

[MrBonita]

There is no free lunch. You get paid for what you work. Truck drivers show up to coumadin clinics all the time from lack of movement leading to blood clots etc. The more you make, the more high risk for health or difficulty.

The reason a refrigerated truck driver makes 100k is most likely the shipment will be seafood. My friend who does this smells like rotten fish. His house smells like rotten fish. If you don't mind smelling like a fisherman then get paid.

 

[lord999]

How long do y’all think till we have driverless trucks?

When the legal system values a human life actuarially low enough where it won't matter the number of casaulties. It's already there with pharmaceutical raw materials coming from China. And before someone claims that it'll never happen, the risk has always been there with human drivers of trucks (driving is not exactly a safe activity if you think about the numbers). It's when the risk is considered equivocal with Robodriver where the technology will take off.

 

[lord999]

Your math is wrong in a couple areas. I believe a truck driver has to be 21, the average pay is still in the high 40s even though Walmart is paying more plus pharmacists don't have to go to school for 8 years.

It's both state and federal regulated. You're quite correct that interstate trucking has to be at least 21 due to FMCSA UNLESS you happen to be uniformed, and then the uniformed can do it at any age if done to orders (of course, the Feds exempt themselves). For within state and for lighter loads, it's quite normal for an 16 to an 18 year old to drive agricultural trucks at commercial level. (My own memory of AZ is that you can actually drive small trucks (<Ford F550) as young as 14 for agricultural reasons in the country.)

 

[Momus]

Everyone and their mom are developing self driving tech.

Tesla's autonomous semi truck spotted on California highway

We will see truckers going away just like a flip phone. In 10 yrs, most cars will be replaced by autonomous cars. If the life style, long hours on the road, never seeing your family don't persuade you away, innovation will drive you to extinction. This isn't a field you want to get into right now.

 

[mentos]

"Generally, trucking school costs between $3,000 and $7,000 for the entire program. Much depends on whether you want a class A or a class B CDL license and which endorsements you want to earn. The more time you have to spend training to earn your chosen license, the more you should plan on spending on tuition."

Lets do the math. Borrow 200k and make around 140k a year for pharmacist.

Borrow 7k and make 87k a year for a trucker.

Over a 20 year period.

Pharmacist needs 8 years of school (4 year bs and 4 year pharm.d). so 140 x 12 (-200k) = 1.480k

Trucker needs 1 year of school. so 87 x 19 (-7k) = 1.646k

After 20 years you will be at the same place. But remember that pharmacists are in a higher tax bracket so in general, the trucker might be about the same.

There's no way new hires make close to 140k. Apparently CVS and Wags starting pay is around $50/hr now so that's about 104k per year, but wait most new hires are only guaranteed 32 hours so that's only 83k in 2019. It will be lower in 2025.

Pharmacist 83k vs truck driver 87k they are already ahead.

 

[MrBonita]

I wanted to thank everyone for such a wonderful thread. Which occupation should we attack next? What about POTUS?

 

[alpha12]

I wanted to thank everyone for such a wonderful thread. Which occupation should we attack next? What about POTUS?

Librarian

 

[mentos]

I don't see any attacks here, just facts and reality.

 

[Modest_anteater]

If you make a mistake trucking you could die or kill someone. And the work life balance of a trucker is much worse than a pharmacist.

Trucking isn’t a bad job at all. Certainly less of an investment that pharmacy. But there is a reason there is a shortage. Comparing the two is apples and oranges.


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I agree. Also there is a small risk of self driving Truck tech coming out that works well enough to replace all truckers over night. Then the higher risk of death from auto accidents. It's also mind numbingly boring job. I hear you can clear well over a pharmacist's wage if you do trucking in rural alaska or near the Alberta Oil Sands in north Canada.

 

[alpha12]

I agree. Also there is a small risk of self driving Truck tech coming out that works well enough to replace all truckers over night. Then the higher risk of death from auto accidents. It's also mind numbingly boring job. I hear you can clear well over a pharmacist's wage if you do trucking in rural alaska or near the Alberta Oil Sands in north Canada.

Is it there a risk of pharmacists being replaced by pill dispensing machines?

 

[gwarm01]

Is it there a risk of pharmacists being replaced by pill dispensing machines?

There is more to the practice of pharmacy than just putting pills in a bottle.

 

[lane one]

Is it there a risk of pharmacists being replaced by pill dispensing machines?

Sure It's possible. It's possible in the same way that any profession on the planet can be replaced by a robot. It just depends on how much money you put into the tech and validation that the tech can ACTUALLY perform at the same level. I think it will be awhile before you actually see pharmacists replaced by AI and dispensing cabinets. I'm pretty sure we have the tech to fly 737s remotely, but we still have pilots.

 

[alpha12]

I'm pretty sure we have the tech to fly 737s remotely, but we still have pilots.

I sure hope not. Terrorists would easily be able to hijack planes.

 

[alpha12]

There is more to the practice of pharmacy than just putting pills in a bottle.

Yes there is but it's possible to automate a lot of the task. Maybe instead of 3 pharmacists you might just need one.

 

[mentos]

Sure It's possible. It's possible in the same way that any profession on the planet can be replaced by a robot. It just depends on how much money you put into the tech and validation that the tech can ACTUALLY perform at the same level. I think it will be awhile before you actually see pharmacists replaced by AI and dispensing cabinets. I'm pretty sure we have the tech to fly 737s remotely, but we still have pilots.

Commercial planes are pretty much flown on auto pilot the entire flight except for take off and landing.

 

[sozetone]

"Generally, trucking school costs between $3,000 and $7,000 for the entire program. Much depends on whether you want a class A or a class B CDL license and which endorsements you want to earn. The more time you have to spend training to earn your chosen license, the more you should plan on spending on tuition."

Lets do the math. Borrow 200k and make around 140k a year for pharmacist.

Borrow 7k and make 87k a year for a trucker.

Over a 20 year period.

Pharmacist needs 8 years of school (4 year bs and 4 year pharm.d). so 140 x 12 (-200k) = 1.480k

Trucker needs 1 year of school. so 87 x 19 (-7k) = 1.646k

After 20 years you will be at the same place. But remember that pharmacists are in a higher tax bracket so in general, the trucker might be about the same.

Where are you getting this 140,000/year for a pharmacist? thats VERY hard to get anymore. As a matter of fact i would bet it no longer exists, since the salary cuts nationwide.