is psych really the new radiology?

[notdeadyet]

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The whole match system is a mess in the first place. People should be able to interview and be offered a position just like any other job.

That would be a nightmare for all but the top of the top applicants. It would also take about three years and have hundreds of people scrambling in the end.

 

[Jorje286]

That would be a nightmare for all but the top of the top applicants. It would also take about three years and have hundreds of people scrambling in the end.

That's how it goes in most places in the world and saves a ton of money for the applicants, since you don't actually pay for job applications, and get a quicker response from both the schools and the applicants.

 

[aafisahar]

I believe psych will be more competitive than FM, PM&R and even IM to some extent in the next match and on... Just being a US student won't cut it anymore..

long-time lurker, but I just wanted to point out that this is fear mongering. IM is more competitive than EM (higher step 1, higher step 2, more research, more pubs, more AOA, more top 40 schools, more graduate degrees, more PhDs as compared to EM) on every objective measure and this includes all those small, IMG heavy community programs that take very little to match in as an AMG. If you look at the numbers, psych is extremely uncompetitive. The average IM applicant is a superstar compared to the average psych candidate as per charting the outcomes. If you think this year is competitive in psych, wander over to the IM forums where many stellar applicants who have research, >250 Step 1, AOA, straight Hs clinically, are getting rejected from mid-tier/upper mid-tier programs.

 

[Blitz2006]

I somewhat disagree with this.

As per 2014 charting outcomes:

http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Charting-Outcomes-2014-Final.pdf

EM Average Scores: Step 1: 230, Step 2: 243
IM Average Scores: Step 1: 231, Step 2: 243

So exactly the same with scores (Among U.S MD). But yes, higher AOA/publication/PhD. But ER has never been a specialty geared towards research.

And based on anecdotal data, I suspect ER will be much higher for 2016 with regards to USMLE scores than IM, but thats just my hunch.

and no slight to IMGs, but much higher percentage of IMGs in IM vs. ER:

http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Main-Match-Results-and-Data-2015_final.pdf

Table 8:

ER - 79% (US MD)
IM - 49% (US MD)
Psych - 57% (US MD)

So generally a specialty's competitiveness is based on %IMG.


With regards to Psych vs. IM, well scores are higher in IM in 2014, but not that much higher:

Psych: Step 1 (220), Step 2 (233)
IM : Step 1 (231), Step 2 (243)

And again, I think this gap will have shrunk in 2016, but just my prediction.

Psych also had more PhD in 2014 (4.5 vs. 4.1) and same number of publications (3.9 vs. 3.8).

So really IM only takes the cake with USMLE Scores, and as we know, a lot of IMGs have inflated scores by taking off 1-2 years to prep for the boards.

And as mentioned above, higher percentage of IMG in IM vs. Psych. Over 180 applicants increase in applications for psych (for 1400 spots), whereas IM actually had a slight decrease in applicants (5687 to 5621, compared to previous years where IM increased by 300-400 applicants from the previous years). Its actually the first time in over 15 years Categorical IM has seen a DECREASE in applicants.

https://www.aamc.org/services/eras/stats/

So I predict psych will be overtaking IM in competitiveness over the next couple years (if this trend continues) with psych leveling out on USMLE scores as well.

 

[hamstergang]

The whole match system is a mess in the first place. People should be able to interview and be offered a position just like any other job.

It used to be like that. Apparently worse for residents. I don't see how the match is so bad.

 

[clausewitz2]

It used to be like that. Apparently worse for residents. I don't see how the match is so bad.

Yes, the old system led to fun phenomena like top students receiving job offers before starting their clinical years and not-top students getting job offers that were only good for 24 hours.

The residency hiring process differs from normal job markets in many respects, but a very big one is a) all candidates become available at basically the same time and b) all candidates need to start their new positions at more or less the same time.

That said, restrictions in total number of applications would be ideal for applicants as a whole, even if less optimal for some individuals.

 

[notdeadyet]

That said, restrictions in total number of applications would be ideal for applicants as a whole, even if less optimal for some individuals.

I think that would unnecessarily force a lot of lower tier applicants to have to scramble.

I wonder about limiting the number of interviews, though. I don't think folks necessarily go on a ridiculous amount of interviews, but I have a hunch folks sit on a bunch of them and cancel. Maybe have a limit (10? 12?) to the number of interview slots an applicant can accept. So if they start getting preferred programs, they'll cancel their interviews for less desired programs early in the season. Might ease the burden on programs and ease things for applicants as well.

 

[Shikima]

If psych is the new radiology, why is it that no one comes out of inpt units with..

Clinical correlation for bipolar.

 

[Dharma]

I think that would unnecessarily force a lot of lower tier applicants to have to scramble.

I wonder about limiting the number of interviews, though. I don't think folks necessarily go on a ridiculous amount of interviews, but I have a hunch folks sit on a bunch of them and cancel. Maybe have a limit (10? 12?) to the number of interview slots an applicant can accept. So if they start getting preferred programs, they'll cancel their interviews for less desired programs early in the season. Might ease the burden on programs and ease things for applicants as well.

I'm a fan of limiting interviews (10) and possibly allowing only so many official cancellations per individual that must be made within a reasonable time period or face violation. That said, all programs would be required to man-up and fill out/update the information on the Freida site to a T, ensuring the information is also correct, or also face violation. (Let's face it, some programs have minimal and/or out-of-date info on Freida; came across more than a few while researching programs). Maybe programs should also have a deadline to send out invites, that applicants are aware of, so when said date comes they know where they stand for that first wave.

Idk... something has to change though. Scramble gonna be a B this year.

 

[Mad Jack]

The whole match system is a mess in the first place. People should be able to interview and be offered a position just like any other job.


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Back in the day that was how it worked and it was worse for both applicants and programs. Lower tier programs would interview competitive applicants earlier, then hardball them with binding contact offers they had to sign within 24 hours. Interview lists would constantly change as candidates got picked off our programs filled, changing schedules on both sides erratically. A lot of programs would have trouble filling because of all of the disruption in their applicant pool and constant rescheduling. It was a nightmare, basically, that ended up with a lot of people getting lower tier matches than they would like, higher tier programs getting lower tier candidates than they would like, and chaotic interview scheduling for programs and applicants.

 

[Mad Jack]

If psych is the new radiology, why is it that no one comes out of inpt units with..

Clinical correlation for bipolar.

Unable to rule out schizotypal, MDD with atypical features, and adjustment disorder.

 

[MacDonaldTriad]

That said, all programs would be required to man-up and fill out/update the information on the Freida site to a T, ensuring the information is also correct, or also face violation. (Let's face it, some programs have minimal and/or out-of-date info on Freida; came across more than a few while researching programs). Idk... something has to change though. Scramble gonna be a B this year.

What you may not know is that some of the basic information on Frieda has to be updated annually, but the details can only be uploaded if you pay money. I really can’t support fines for not complying with such shallow for profit scams. As far as the scramble this year, I agree that it is very likely to be enormous. Not sure how this will play out, but it is good theater.

 

[Dharma]

What you may not know is that some of the basic information on Frieda has to be updated annually, but the details can only be uploaded if you pay money. I really can’t support fines for not complying with such shallow for profit scams. As far as the scramble this year, I agree that it is very likely to be enormous. Not sure how this will play out, but it is good theater.

Oh wow! Yeah, I wouldn't be support of dropping cash on that either. Oh well...

 

[WalterDonnie]

Freida wouldn't even be neccrsary though if programs just had more comprehensive info on their websites. You could put all that Frieda stuff, plus detailed call schedules, moonlighting info, and the other top 10 questions asked. That would be pretty helpful. Plus applicants wouldn't have to ask the same annoying questions over and over.

 

[WalterDonnie]

Some programs do have really strong web presence and pretty much give you a good chunk of that info. But a lot of them are pathetic.