Damn, i guess rad onc isn’t too bad! I’m not even half way through residency and the place in my ideal location that i’m considering to reach out, if they offered me $300k, i’d laugh and call them unserious people lol. Honestly anything under $500k, i won’t even consider it!
Ironically big portion of preclinical in med school is pathology while you’re barely taught any radiology!
It's kinda ironic at tumor boards it's always the rad oncs that pester the pathologists lol.
This old article seems relevant
gomerblog.com
Doctor Daniel Platt?!This old article seems relevant
Pathology Resident Makes Up Disease at Tumor Board, Groundbreaking Discovery | GomerBlog
This Pathology resident had no clue he would make such a discovery
Not saying rad onc job market is the same as rads (the difference is night and day) but it’s $1.1m POTENTIAL. I’ve seen bunch of rad onc posts with $800-900k potentials
Also with 13 weeks PTO? That’s only working 75% of the year, versus about 90% of the year for the average rad onc. Thus, “upcharge” that 1.1m another ~18%* to compare with rad onc’s 800-900.
Pretty sure they’re not hitting $1.1m with 13 weeks of PTO. The “potential” is probably for if they work 8-10 of those PTO. I think rads get $40-50 per wRVU. 220 x 74 x 50 = $820k
I wonder if ASTRO cares that its job board is a joke these days. Guess as long as the checks clear it's fine?
It's ridiculous to compare our job market to radiology ( a job that I would not want).
💯💯💯
I take it back. These were the only two $800k+. $500-600k seems much more common
I totally agree, but you could also say the same thing about the rad’s job ad. Why are we assuming that the rad job is amazing but the rad onc one is not? I actually think they both are better in paper than what they actually are but it’s not fair to be skeptical of one but not the other.Both of those you need to know what the comp would be like after the first two years. In the first ad, they point that out. If its a very slow center, its unlikely you keep making that much.
And then, what happens if you leave after 2 years when they switch you off of that high base salary? Usually not nice things
The first ad is a good example of something that might seem much better than it is in reality. Obviously, devil is in the details.
Because there's just so many more options for the rads. Many of us can confirm this is the case IRL
This says it all. I also didn’t know acro has a job board (perhaps because I’m not a med onc so there’s little utility). Acro seems to have sold their souls to Astro. Highly disappointed in their comments at the Astro supervision town hall.
I believe this first job is Portsmouth, OH. Even if you can survive two years in meth village, there’s a reason why they’re consistently hiring every two years. Expect your pay to decline.
You don’t think rural employed position in midwest pays over $500k??
What do you think is the average compensation for a ‘rural’ hospital employed new grad rad onc? The PP is $300-350k for 3-year partnership track. If the hospital employed pays only $400k, why would anyone take the hospital position when the pp ceiling is much higher?
PP ceiling only much higher if it includes technical. I make significantly more as a solo RVU based hospital employee than I would if I collected my own professional fees. I looked at switching to a PSA and setting up my own LLC for tax and retirement benefits and quickly let it go when I obtained my actual professional collections data. It might not be the same for everyone, but after all bonuses and medical Director stipends I make about $70/RVU and we have a very mixed patient population with a percentage of unfunded and underinsured patients.
Honest answer: 650-750k guarantee for a truly rural position for a new grad. (no, a town that has cow fields in it but is 45 miles outside of Atlanta is not truly rural even though it is rural. Truly rural is Pierre, South Dakota and the like. Middle of nowhere. Your spouses employment options consist of the middle school and dollar general. You can’t drive to anything). You don’t understand billing or RVUs and that takes time and desire to so an upfront base guarantee is more important in this situation. You will likely leave a lot of money on the table.
He/she is correct for not considering a hospital employed job (anywhere) that can’t reasonably project an income > 500k, or a partnership track job that does not guarantee at least 300k and a reasonable path to ownership. I can’t speak to academics. Maybe someone else can.
Thank you for the advice. I truly appreciate it. While i’m ‘okay’ with going ‘anywhere’ in the country, I do prefer if I could find a decent job close to my family and friends. Since unfortunately location is a luxury rad oncs can’t always afford, that’s why I decided to reach out and see if I can negotiate something with them. While the location is ideal, if they throw a lowball offer (i don’t think they would) i’m not gonna entertain it since i’m in no rush.
Welcome to rad onc. I moved thousands of miles away from my family a decade ago and have accepted I’m probably not going to be able to go back. Everyone is noticeably older every time I see them. Talk to every other physicist and you’ll hear a story about how they fly halfway around the world to see their family once every 2-3 years. It could be worse. This is what we do in the pursuit of opportunity. Opportunity is thin in this field but it’s there. If you geographically constrain yourself you have to be ok with getting paid a lot less and more importantly giving up autonomy. You can’t say “F u pay me.” They say “you don’t like it, leave” These are the tradeoffs you have to consider.
I live in a largely rural Midwest state and I can tell your now there are no true private practices left. They have all been acquired by the 4 main players in the state and are hospital employed. Several are posted now and offering $400-$500K.
The Overland Park job posted above is the result of the PP in the KC metro becoming all hospital employed. Correct that some Midwest states are totally consolidated at this point, which will lower individual bargaining power. I know someone who tried to take the Pierre, SD job and the hospital was ridiculously inflexible with negotiating and gave him one of the most predatory and one-sided contracts I’ve ever seen. It was take it or leave it in literally the middle of South Dakota. He was 20+ years of experience and passed. A new grad may not have known better.
I don’t know anything about the specific job you are talking about, but IMO, KC is a vastly under rated city. My wife and I are very into MLB and it’s on our regular rotation. Lots of breweries, good food scene, great for sports. It’s not rural by any stretch of the imagination.
K Street
Sorry, I didn’t mean in any way to imply Kansas City is a rural area. It’s a solid Midwest city that is overlooked along with many others.
The docs (who stay) are from there or similar areas. They don’t want to be in NYC, Miami, LA, etc.
The same reason that people are willing to accept the crap they do to be in a specific metro...family. They are almost all older folks who have been practicing at these centers for 20+ years and are from the area. But now they are starting to retire and the fantasy that resident oversupply means these positions will be easy to fill has been laid bare for the world to see. Both of the ones that I am aware of have been reposted 3 times now. I will bet a lot of money they eventually get filled by FMGs.
I didn't mean to imply that you did. Its just funny to me how some coastal people lump Missouri into a rural state even though half of the population lives in St. Louis or KC which are huge metro centers. KC is far and away the better of the 2 to live in IMO. St. Louis has improved quite a bit and is fun for a visit, but it earned its bad rap fair and square. The western burbs and around Forest Park are fine but even during the day, you need to pay attention to your surroundings downtown (even by the ball park).
