Is rad onc job market … rebounding?

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Out on the pathology board the starting salary finally hit 300K and they feel like they found El Dorado.
After reading here, my conclusion is that it's awesome to be an oncologist but sucks to be a patient in the US of A lol.
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shikimate said:
Out on the pathology board the starting salary finally hit 300K and they feel like they found El Dorado.
After reading here, my conclusion is that it's awesome to be an oncologist but sucks to be a patient in the US of A lol.
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Damn, i guess rad onc isn’t too bad! I’m not even half way through residency and the place in my ideal location that i’m considering to reach out, if they offered me $300k, i’d laugh and call them unserious people lol. Honestly anything under $500k, i won’t even consider it!
 
shikimate said:
Out on the pathology board the starting salary finally hit 300K and they feel like they found El Dorado.
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To be fair, pathology has been one of the worst fields of medicine for decades. Heck, it’s not even medicine imo might as well be a research scientist or software engineer.
 
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yesmaster said:
To be fair, pathology has been one of the worst fields of medicine for decades. Heck, it’s not even medicine imo might as well be a research scientist or software engineer.
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Ironically big portion of preclinical in med school is pathology while you’re barely taught any radiology!
 
DrProtonX said:
Ironically big portion of preclinical in med school is pathology while you’re barely taught any radiology!
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It's kinda ironic at tumor boards it's always the rad oncs that pester the pathologists lol.
The surgeons seems pretty happy as long as you write the margins are negative.
The med oncs only care about whether you ordered NGS testing or not.
The rad oncs ask all kinds of weird questions. One asked if there is LVI or not. I said I didn't see LVI around the tumor (as stated in the micro) but since the patient's LN is positive there must have been LVI, or else who did the tumor get to the LN?
Another time someone asked if there's LGD at the margin (the report said there's HGD at the margin). I said there is HGD at the margin, so why do you care about LGD at the margin?
The funniest one is when they ask me why I didn't provide a grade for the tumor. I said because you guys did chemorad there is complete pathologic response. Then they asked if complete pathologic response means I cannot provide a grade for the tumor. I said it means there's no viable tumor left for me to grade.
 
shikimate said:
It's kinda ironic at tumor boards it's always the rad oncs that pester the pathologists lol.
The surgeons seems pretty happy as long as you write the margins are negative.
The med oncs only care about whether you ordered NGS testing or not.
The rad oncs ask all kinds of weird questions. One asked if there is LVI or not. I said I didn't see LVI around the tumor (as stated in the micro) but since the patient's LN is positive there must have been LVI, or else who did the tumor get to the LN?
Another time someone asked if there's LGD at the margin (the report said there's HGD at the margin). I said there is HGD at the margin, so why do you care about LGD at the margin?
The funniest one is when they ask me why I didn't provide a grade for the tumor. I said because you guys did chemorad there is complete pathologic response. Then they asked if complete pathologic response means I cannot provide a grade for the tumor. I said it means there's no viable tumor left for me to grade.
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This old article seems relevant
gomerblog.com

Pathology Resident Makes Up Disease at Tumor Board, Groundbreaking Discovery | GomerBlog

This Pathology resident had no clue he would make such a discovery
gomerblog.com gomerblog.com
 
Related and germane imho

IMG_1516.jpeg
 
DrProtonX said:
Not saying rad onc job market is the same as rads (the difference is night and day) but it’s $1.1m POTENTIAL. I’ve seen bunch of rad onc posts with $800-900k potentials
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Also with 13 weeks PTO? That’s only working 75% of the year, versus about 90% of the year for the average rad onc. Thus, “upcharge” that 1.1m another ~18%* to compare with rad onc’s 800-900.

* ((52-6)/52))/((52-13)/52)
 
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TheWallnerus said:
Also with 13 weeks PTO? That’s only working 75% of the year, versus about 90% of the year for the average rad onc. Thus, “upcharge” that 1.1m another ~18% to compare with rad onc’s 800-900.
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Pretty sure they’re not hitting $1.1m with 13 weeks of PTO. The “potential” is probably for if they work 8-10 of those PTO. I think rads get $40-50 per wRVU. 220 x 74 x 50 = $820k
 
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yesmaster said:
You might be surprised how well our peers are doing when they don’t have our oversupply problems.
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It's ridiculous to compare our job market to radiology ( a job that I would not want).

It's been possible to make a very good living from home in diagnostic rads for 15+ years. The jobs that are viewed as "first line, reasonable and I'm moving my family to that location" in radonc are not even crossing radiologists minds. They are moving where they want to live and just getting a job there.
 
communitydoc13 said:
It's ridiculous to compare our job market to radiology ( a job that I would not want).

It's been possible to make a very good living from home in diagnostic rads for 15+ years. The jobs that are viewed as "first line, reasonable and I'm moving my family to that location" in radonc are not even crossing radiologists minds. They are moving where they want to live and just getting a job there.
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💯💯💯

Rads has only gotten better since the temporary dip several years ago.

But yes, you have to like that job. Our "job" wins hands down in terms of what we do, but rads wins everywhere else (salary, geographic flexibility, PTO etc).

I've said it before and I'll say it again, in 2018+ I would not do rad onc as a US medical student.... I'd do GU, ENT, rads or med onc as alternatives for the reasons I've listed above.

I love rad onc but not enough to do it in Chico, California, or Walla Walla, WA or Kearney NE etc for the same or less than what rads gets paid in a better location while I have less PTO doing it.
 
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I do think it does nicely illustrate however that not all specialists make 400k, so we should just shut up and be happy.

I'm not sure what docs are being surveyed in some of those salary surveys, but most specialists I know make more than us/me. Quite a bit more in many cases.
 
DrProtonX said:
I take it back. These were the only two $800k+. $500-600k seems much more common
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Both of those you need to know what the comp would be like after the first two years. In the first ad, they point that out. If its a very slow center, its unlikely you keep making that much.

And then, what happens if you leave after 2 years when they switch you off of that high base salary? Usually not nice things 🙂

The first ad is a good example of something that might seem much better than it is in reality. Obviously, devil is in the details.
 
NotMattSpraker said:
Both of those you need to know what the comp would be like after the first two years. In the first ad, they point that out. If its a very slow center, its unlikely you keep making that much.

And then, what happens if you leave after 2 years when they switch you off of that high base salary? Usually not nice things 🙂

The first ad is a good example of something that might seem much better than it is in reality. Obviously, devil is in the details.
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I totally agree, but you could also say the same thing about the rad’s job ad. Why are we assuming that the rad job is amazing but the rad onc one is not? I actually think they both are better in paper than what they actually are but it’s not fair to be skeptical of one but not the other.
 
DrProtonX said:
I totally agree, but you could also say the same thing about the rad’s job ad. Why are we assuming that the rad job is amazing but the rad onc one is not? I actually think they both are better in paper than what they actually are but it’s not fair to be skeptical of one but not the other.
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Because there's just so many more options for the rads. Many of us can confirm this is the case IRL
 
DrProtonX said:
I totally agree, but you could also say the same thing about the rad’s job ad. Why are we assuming that the rad job is amazing but the rad onc one is not? I actually think they both are better in paper than what they actually are but it’s not fair to be skeptical of one but not the other.
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I am not assuming that. There are amazing RO jobs out there.
 
TheWallnerus said:
"Hello, I am here to look for rad onc jobs."
"Sir, this is a Wendy's."

View attachment 389747

View attachment 389748
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This says it all. I also didn’t know acro has a job board (perhaps because I’m not a med onc so there’s little utility). Acro seems to have sold their souls to Astro. Highly disappointed in their comments at the Astro supervision town hall.
 
DrProtonX said:
I take it back. These were the only two $800k+. $500-600k seems much more common
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I believe this first job is Portsmouth, OH. Even if you can survive two years in meth village, there’s a reason why they’re consistently hiring every two years. Expect your pay to decline.
 
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The radiology job is saying you’ll get 16K RVUs per year on average

Didn’t ASTRO say the average rad onc gets *cough* 10 thousand *cough* RVUs per year in its *cough* workforce analysis. This is *cough* good data, the *cough* best data too, please don’t *cough* look at those RVUs behind the *cough* curtain

That’s quite a discrepancy
 
radoncle said:
Acro seems to have sold their souls to Astro. Highly disappointed in their comments at the Astro supervision town hall.
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It is really sad. We really don't have the population to justify multiple Rad Onc professional societies, but we have... like, what... 5 societies?... because Rad Oncs just cant get along or work together.

But wait theres more. We also do not get the "diversity of thought" benefit of multiple societies because the leading Rad Oncs are too busy trying to impress each other.

If you could just give money to all the societies and all the PACs to work on the same things, but separately and in a slightly different way.

So Rad Onc.

(Hey, which society is for non-academic hospital network radiation oncologists?)
 
DrProtonX said:
Damn, i guess rad onc isn’t too bad! I’m not even half way through residency and the place in my ideal location that i’m considering to reach out, if they offered me $300k, i’d laugh and call them unserious people lol. Honestly anything under $500k, i won’t even consider it!
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Yeah, good luck with that
 
DrProtonX said:
You don’t think rural employed position in midwest pays over $500k??
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If you require over 500K as a new grad you may need some luck actually.

A lot of places do not pay you median until you are BC and a few years out.

Also remember that "rural" has no real definition here. Many of these rural admins will just hire a locums instead, or some old guy/woman, or just anything not to pay a person with no experience national median salary.

If you put yourself in their shoes, its not that crazy. Remember, as an admin, your assessment of quality of a Rad Onc is fairly limited. You have references and board cert, prior credentialing.. really thats it. Its not like you can run cases with a new hire if you have no clinical knowledge.

A new grad might not show up, might take another job, might bounce, might not pass their boards. An 80 year old BC Rad Onc who has been credentialed at 25 hospitals in their career... theres very little risk of any of those things.

Its important to know your value but also understand that no one doctor is THAT special, especially outside academics. No one is going to stretch for a random out of town new grad.
 
NotMattSpraker said:
If you require over 500K as a new grad you may need some luck actually.

A lot of places do not pay you median until you are BC and a few years out.

Also remember that "rural" has no real definition here. Many of these rural admins will just hire a locums instead, or some old guy/woman, or just anything not to pay a person with no experience national median salary.

If you put yourself in their shoes, its not that crazy. Remember, as an admin, your assessment of quality of a Rad Onc is fairly limited. You have references and board cert, prior credentialing.. really thats it. Its not like you can run cases with a new hire if you have no clinical knowledge.

A new grad might not show up, might take another job, might bounce, might not pass their boards. An 80 year old BC Rad Onc who has been credentialed at 25 hospitals in their career... theres very little risk of any of those things.

Its important to know your value but also understand that no one doctor is THAT special, especially outside academics. No one is going to stretch for a random out of town new grad.
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What do you think is the average compensation for a ‘rural’ hospital employed new grad rad onc? The PP is $300-350k for 3-year partnership track. If the hospital employed pays only $400k, why would anyone take the hospital position when the pp ceiling is much higher?
 
DrProtonX said:
What do you think is the average compensation for a ‘rural’ hospital employed new grad rad onc? The PP is $300-350k for 3-year partnership track. If the hospital employed pays only $400k, why would anyone take the hospital position when the pp ceiling is much higher?
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PP ceiling only much higher if it includes technical. I make significantly more as a solo RVU based hospital employee than I would if I collected my own professional fees. I looked at switching to a PSA and setting up my own LLC for tax and retirement benefits and quickly let it go when I obtained my actual professional collections data. It might not be the same for everyone, but after all bonuses and medical Director stipends I make about $70/RVU and we have a very mixed patient population with a percentage of unfunded and underinsured patients.
 
DrProtonX said:
What do you think is the average compensation for a ‘rural’ hospital employed new grad rad onc? The PP is $300-350k for 3-year partnership track. If the hospital employed pays only $400k, why would anyone take the hospital position when the pp ceiling is much higher?
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I dont know, but maybe some others on this board have some data.

A lot of people chose time or quality of life over money when we are talking minimum salaries of 400K+.

A lot of people will also happily take a job for median or even less. If a single person will do that for your job you are targeting, possibly even including just a locums, you have zero leverage to negotiate.

That is the supply and demand component people constantly seem to just gloss over.

Bequerel said:
PP ceiling only much higher if it includes technical. I make significantly more as a solo RVU based hospital employee than I would if I collected my own professional fees. I looked at switching to a PSA and setting up my own LLC for tax and retirement benefits and quickly let it go when I obtained my actual professional collections data. It might not be the same for everyone, but after all bonuses and medical Director stipends I make about $70/RVU and we have a very mixed patient population with a percentage of unfunded and underinsured patients.
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Always listen to people that have done the work, have the experience, and talk in specifics.
 
DrProtonX said:
I take it back. These were the only two $800k+. $500-600k seems much more common
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The first job is in southern Ohio on the Kentucky border which is in the running for the most undesirable location in the country way behind the entire state of Alaska. There are so many red flags with that job I don’t even know where to begin. If I recall correctly, this job assigned essays for doctors (excuse me providers, because that’s what you’ll be there) to write in order to apply. The “bonus” which is a loan that indebts you to them is designed to trap you in an undesirable situation. It’s predatory by nature.

The second job, it’s very clear they are listing their annual compensation cap as the earning “potential” As in this is the most you can earn no matter how much you work. No self respecting professional would ever agree to to a cap as you are working for diminishing returns and eventually for free after a certain point.

You would be well served to think of your value by unit work and then sell your labor at this rate. In other words, all that matters is how many RVUs per unit time you expect the clinic to produce and what $/RVU rate you can negotiate. If you want to do this by collections, you need to look at payor mix and contracts. Once you start talking about salaries and RVU bonuses, eg we’ll pay you an extra $10k if you do 30% over your RVU target and such and such rating on Press Ganey surveys or something, you are getting hosed. You are a professional. Your labor has a fixed rate. In the same practice setting, Medicare pays the best doctor in the country and the worst non-BC multiple sued 15 DUIs triple failed USMLE northwest Oklahio osteowhatever grad the exact same. End of story.

Now, if you’re a new grad you may not get this fair deal immediately (because you chose an over saturated field that allows the exploitative jobs above to get away with that), but this should be your goal as soon as possible.
 
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DrProtonX said:
What do you think is the average compensation for a ‘rural’ hospital employed new grad rad onc? The PP is $300-350k for 3-year partnership track. If the hospital employed pays only $400k, why would anyone take the hospital position when the pp ceiling is much higher?
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Honest answer: 650-750k guarantee for a truly rural position for a new grad. (no, a town that has cow fields in it but is 45 miles outside of Atlanta is not truly rural even though it is rural. Truly rural is Pierre, South Dakota and the like. Middle of nowhere. Your spouses employment options consist of the middle school and dollar general. You can’t drive to anything). You don’t understand billing or RVUs and that takes time and desire to so an upfront base guarantee is more important in this situation. You will likely leave a lot of money on the table.

Even more honest answer: I would not take a solo rural position as a new grad because they are paying an extra 100k off the bat. Hospitals that put new grads in these jobs tend to be predatory. They are not appropriate for new grads almost always. These can be great jobs later. Pick a place where you can see a wide variety of cases, RENT a place to live, pass your boards, then re-evaluate after your initial 2 year term is up. Maybe they are offering you partnership at a fair price. Lucky you. More likely you’ve learned enough by now to realize you’ve been getting hosed. Or that your partnership track job was smoke and mirrors and they’ve got another new grad coming in to replace you. Now you have experience and are BC. Congrats, take your time and find a good place. Don’t burn your bridges. Don’t rage quit. Deep breaths. I wish someone had told this to me.
 
Tigerstang said:
Yeah, good luck with that
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He/she is correct for not considering a hospital employed job (anywhere) that can’t reasonably project an income > 500k, or a partnership track job that does not guarantee at least 300k and a reasonable path to ownership. I can’t speak to academics. Maybe someone else can.

I’ll take a wild guess where you’re coming from on this.

If you are a pro-only “owner” who expects to be able to hire new grads for 300k (you know, primary care income) or less only to eventually, maybe if they really play ball, get them to them pro fees minus 20% in a competitive market with likely suboptimal payor contracts, well, good luck with that.
 
MidwestRadOnc said:
Honest answer: 650-750k guarantee for a truly rural position for a new grad. (no, a town that has cow fields in it but is 45 miles outside of Atlanta is not truly rural even though it is rural. Truly rural is Pierre, South Dakota and the like. Middle of nowhere. Your spouses employment options consist of the middle school and dollar general. You can’t drive to anything). You don’t understand billing or RVUs and that takes time and desire to so an upfront base guarantee is more important in this situation. You will likely leave a lot of money on the table.

Even more honest answer: I would not take a solo rural position as a new grad because they are paying an extra 100k off the bat. Hospitals that put new grads in these jobs tend to be predatory. They are not appropriate for new grads almost always. These can be great jobs later. Pick a place where you can see a wide variety of cases, RENT a place to live, pass your boards, then re-evaluate after your initial 2 year term is up. Maybe they are offering you partnership at a fair price. Lucky you. More likely you’ve learned enough by now to realize you’ve been getting hosed. Or that your partnership track job was smoke and mirrors and they’ve got another new grad coming in to replace you. Now you have experience and are BC. Congrats, take your time and find a good place. Don’t burn your bridges. Don’t rage quit. Deep breaths. I wish someone had told this to me.
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Thank you for the advice. I truly appreciate it. While i’m ‘okay’ with going ‘anywhere’ in the country, I do prefer if I could find a decent job close to my family and friends. Since unfortunately location is a luxury rad oncs can’t always afford, that’s why I decided to reach out and see if I can negotiate something with them. While the location is ideal, if they throw a lowball offer (i don’t think they would) i’m not gonna entertain it since i’m in no rush.
P.s It’s not a solo rad onc position. I believe they’re 3 employed rad oncs.
 
DrProtonX said:
Thank you for the advice. I truly appreciate it. While i’m ‘okay’ with going ‘anywhere’ in the country, I do prefer if I could find a decent job close to my family and friends. Since unfortunately location is a luxury rad oncs can’t always afford, that’s why I decided to reach out and see if I can negotiate something with them. While the location is ideal, if they throw a lowball offer (i don’t think they would) i’m not gonna entertain it since i’m in no rush.
P.s It’s not a solo rad onc position. I believe they’re 3 employed rad oncs.
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Welcome to rad onc. I moved thousands of miles away from my family a decade ago and have accepted I’m probably not going to be able to go back. Everyone is noticeably older every time I see them. Talk to every other physicist and you’ll hear a story about how they fly halfway around the world to see their family once every 2-3 years. It could be worse. This is what we do in the pursuit of opportunity. Opportunity is thin in this field but it’s there. If you geographically constrain yourself you have to be ok with getting paid a lot less and more importantly giving up autonomy. You can’t say “F u pay me.” They say “you don’t like it, leave” These are the tradeoffs you have to consider.

My personal opinion is that hospitals that employ multiple rad oncs are not ideal (and you better have something in your contract that says if one quits or gets fired, and you have to do their work you get ALL of their pay, going back to the Cheyenne job nightmare) . You either want to be solo employed or independent PSA with partners where you can divide the pie how you see fit. Letting the hospital divide it only causes problems unless everybody has the exact same deal and there is complete transparency and the RVU rate they pay you is much higher than you could collect on your own.
 
DrProtonX said:
What do you think is the average compensation for a ‘rural’ hospital employed new grad rad onc? The PP is $300-350k for 3-year partnership track. If the hospital employed pays only $400k, why would anyone take the hospital position when the pp ceiling is much higher?
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I live in a largely rural Midwest state and I can tell your now there are no true private practices left. They have all been acquired by the 4 main players in the state and are hospital employed. Several are posted now and offering $400-$500K.

One state over belongs almost exclusively to a single system that pays pretty well. $450 base plus a share of technical over a certain amount. One of our former grads that I know very well works for them and they pull in around $650K in a group of 3. Even in a rural setting, I’d say pulling in more than $500K as a new grad outside of a solo gig is the exception. I think your expectations are a bit high. At least in my part of Midwest flyover country.

As to why take the hospital gig, there are a lot of possible reasons. Virtually all faculty members in ned school and residencies are employed and it’s the only model many people have ever seen. I guarantee you that a substantial proportion of graduates don’t even know what a RVU is or honestly know how to interpret a non-salaried pay structure. Then there is the issue of trust. There are a lot of predatory A holes out there and many people feel more comfortable taking a set pay than trusting someone they don’t really know to break their back and hopefully make bank later. There is also the very personal issue of how much money do you really need. If you are raking in $400 plus in most parts of my region, unless you collect exotic cars or planes, or want to retire at 50, you can have pretty much everything you want. An extra $200 per year is nice, but it won’t get you to next level rich (where money really is no object). Many people are content to stick with the structure they know even if it means a lower earning potential.
 
ramsesthenice said:
I live in a largely rural Midwest state and I can tell your now there are no true private practices left. They have all been acquired by the 4 main players in the state and are hospital employed. Several are posted now and offering $400-$500K.

One state over belongs almost exclusively to a single system that pays pretty well. $450 base plus a share of technical over a certain amount. One of our former grads that I know very well works for them and they pull in around $650K in a group of 3. Even in a rural setting, I’d say pulling in more than $500K as a new grad outside of a solo gig is the exception. I think your expectations are a bit high. At least in my part of Midwest flyover country.

As to why take the hospital gig, there are a lot of possible reasons. Virtually all faculty members in ned school and residencies are employed and it’s the only model many people have ever seen. I guarantee you that a substantial proportion of graduates don’t even know what a RVU is or honestly know how to interpret a non-salaried pay structure. Then there is the issue of trust. There are a lot of predatory A holes out there and many people feel more comfortable taking a set pay than trusting someone they don’t really know to break their back and hopefully make bank later. There is also the very personal issue of how much money do you really need. If you are raking in $400 plus in most parts of my region, unless you collect exotic cars or planes, or want to retire at 50, you can have pretty much everything you want. An extra $200 per year is nice, but it won’t get you to next level rich (where money really is no object). Many people are content to stick with the structure they know even if it means a lower earning potential.
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The Overland Park job posted above is the result of the PP in the KC metro becoming all hospital employed. Correct that some Midwest states are totally consolidated at this point, which will lower individual bargaining power. I know someone who tried to take the Pierre, SD job and the hospital was ridiculously inflexible with negotiating and gave him one of the most predatory and one-sided contracts I’ve ever seen. It was take it or leave it in literally the middle of South Dakota. He was 20+ years of experience and passed. A new grad may not have known better.

I was offered mid 500s at multiple Midwest hospitals 7-8 years ago as a new grad. Could have reasonably (and did) negotiated into the 600s. This is worth probably 800 now with inflation. You’re not making 800 as a new grad. But I still think reasonable to land in mid 600s total comp. Again wouldn’t take a job anywhere just to earn an extra 60k post tax, you’re totally right about that. Having non psycho coworkers and admin matters much more.
 
MidwestRadOnc said:
The Overland Park job posted above is the result of the PP in the KC metro becoming all hospital employed. Correct that some Midwest states are totally consolidated at this point, which will lower individual bargaining power. I know someone who tried to take the Pierre, SD job and the hospital was ridiculously inflexible with negotiating and gave him one of the most predatory and one-sided contracts I’ve ever seen. It was take it or leave it in literally the middle of South Dakota. He was 20+ years of experience and passed. A new grad may not have known better.

I was offered mid 500s at multiple Midwest hospitals 7-8 years ago as a new grad. Could have reasonably (and did) negotiated into the 600s. This is worth probably 800 now with inflation. You’re not making 800 as a new grad. But I still think reasonable to land in mid 600s total comp. Again wouldn’t take a job anywhere just to earn an extra 60k post tax, you’re totally right about that. Having non psycho coworkers and admin matters much more.
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I don’t know anything about the specific job you are talking about, but IMO, KC is a vastly under rated city. My wife and I are very into MLB and it’s on our regular rotation. Lots of breweries, good food scene, great for sports. It’s not rural by any stretch of the imagination.
 
I'm not sure if it's rebounding, but reading through this thread made me check ASTRO's career center for the first time in a year. Looks like there's more Heme/Onc jobs posted than Rad Onc jobs. I didn't count, but maybe 40% of the jobs posted on the first page are for Rad Oncs. Seems like a bad sign.
 
ramsesthenice said:
I live in a largely rural Midwest state and I can tell your now there are no true private practices left. They have all been acquired by the 4 main players in the state and are hospital employed. Several are posted now and offering $400-$500K.
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That’s sad and lame. Why don’t the doctors just leave? It’s rural and in the Midwest, why stay?
 
ramsesthenice said:
I don’t know anything about the specific job you are talking about, but IMO, KC is a vastly under rated city. My wife and I are very into MLB and it’s on our regular rotation. Lots of breweries, good food scene, great for sports. It’s not rural by any stretch of the imagination.
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Sorry, I didn’t mean in any way to imply Kansas City is a rural area. It’s a solid Midwest city that is overlooked along with many others.

Another data point,

I was offered a job at a rural Iowa freestanding that used to be a solo doc PP. Got acquired by a system (not a terrible one) and they wanted to turn it into a two doc employed gig. It was a solid 1 doc PP, easily 1M+. It’s unfortunate that most of these gigs have evaporated as alluded to. Employed offer was 620 fixed salary probably would have gone close to 700. Good staff would have been a good job probably a little slow, but the location is a hard sell without higher income potential (no eat what you kill) fewer days per week to allow you to live in a metro area and commute out. Plus you have the bureaucracy of a system to deal with.
 
yesmaster said:
That’s sad and lame. Why don’t the doctors just leave? It’s rural and in the Midwest, why stay?
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The same reason that people are willing to accept the crap they do to be in a specific metro...family. They are almost all older folks who have been practicing at these centers for 20+ years and are from the area. But now they are starting to retire and the fantasy that resident oversupply means these positions will be easy to fill has been laid bare for the world to see. Both of the ones that I am aware of have been reposted 3 times now. I will bet a lot of money they eventually get filled by FMGs.

MidwestRadOnc said:
Sorry, I didn’t mean in any way to imply Kansas City is a rural area. It’s a solid Midwest city that is overlooked along with many others.
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I didn't mean to imply that you did. Its just funny to me how some coastal people lump Missouri into a rural state even though half of the population lives in St. Louis or KC which are huge metro centers. KC is far and away the better of the 2 to live in IMO. St. Louis has improved quite a bit and is fun for a visit, but it earned its bad rap fair and square. The western burbs and around Forest Park are fine but even during the day, you need to pay attention to your surroundings downtown (even by the ball park).
 
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