Is residency closed to me forever?

[CurioslySatisfying]

I have a bit of a lengthy story so I hope nobody minds. I went abroad to medical school after high school in the US. I wasn't a very good student and it took me 2 years extra to finish. I tried to study for the USMLE after graduation but it didn't work out and I ended up quitting without taking the test. I've done various non-medical jobs since.

The reason I decided to post this is because I recently got a job at a hospital where I'll be working closely with doctors. I'm wondering if I can manage to get good USMLE scores and get good LORs from the doctors I'm working with, does anybody think I might still have a chance at getting residency? Or should I just accept the fact that this door is closed to me forever now?

I should probably add that I'm a US citizen since I know that can be an issue.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Raryn]

What year did you graduate?

If you graduated from a foreign medical school before say, 2015... The answer is more or less that your options for residency are more or less closed without clear connection to a specific program. A 4+ year gap with mostly non-medical jobs is a huge red flag. If you're working at a hospital with its own residency programs and manage to get an in? It's possible. Otherwise, I wouldn't bet on it.

If you graduated in 2016 or 2017? Your odds are still very poor, but this may be doable. Your timeline is super tough though: You'd need to pass Step 1, Step 2 CK, and Step 2 CS by this September and get some good LOR. Foreign graduates have basically zero chance of getting any interviews without all three exams passed, and the year of graduation clock is ticking.

 

[GoSpursGo]

I think it's not realistic to aim for a residency as a foreign medical grad with multiple years gap without a medical job. just too many red flags to overcome.

 

[spacegun]

I have a bit of a lengthy story so I hope nobody minds. I went abroad to medical school after high school in the US. I wasn't a very good student and it took me 2 years extra to finish. I tried to study for the USMLE after graduation but it didn't work out and I ended up quitting without taking the test. I've done various non-medical jobs since.

The reason I decided to post this is because I recently got a job at a hospital where I'll be working closely with doctors. I'm wondering if I can manage to get good USMLE scores and get good LORs from the doctors I'm working with, does anybody think I might still have a job at getting residency? Or should I just accept the fact that this door is closed to me forever now?

I should probably add that I'm a US citizen since I now that can be an issue.

Red flags are your Year of Graduation, you took 2 extra years to finish, and you haven't been doing anything clinical since graduation.

"Good" news is you haven't taken any of the USMLE's. If you crush Step 1 and Step 2 (250+), if you can get some US clinical experience (observerships I assume) and strong LOR's, and if you are willing to do lowest tier FM, IM, psych, path, then maybe it's possible for you (a big maybe). Still going to be extremely difficult.

There is also the psychological aspect. If you are talking about probabilities, then it's extremely improbable for you to match, as everyone here has said. But if you are talking about psychologically knowing you gave everything you could and tried every possible avenue to match, then the only way to know 100% for sure is to try (and very possibly not succeed, despite spending tons of time and tons of money). But it is the only way to know 100% you did everything you could and you have no regrets, question marks, or what if's. Personally I hope you make it! It'd be inspiring to people to hear your success story. But the risk of failure is extremely high. But if you are the type of person that needs to know 100% for sure, and you cannot 100% accept the probability that the door is "most likely" closed because there will always be that what if in the back of your mind, then the only way is to try.

Might want to ask a PD like @aProgDirector for more insight too.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

I don't have much more to add than what's already here. It's very unlikely you'll be getting a spot. You mentioned that you were not a good student, so chances of getting stellar scores on the USMLE are less than ideal. You'd need clinical experience to have any chance at all. Just "working with doctors" isn't going to help.

 

[GoSpursGo]

Agree with aPD. I try to be optimistic when possible, but there's no "good news" in the OP's story.

The OP went to a foreign medical school which didn't prepare him for the USMLEs, and he didn't do well with the material he was taught. To think he is going to suddenly wake up and "crush" the step exams is not realistic, let alone that he might miraculously do step 1, CK and CS all by September. He's multiple years out from graduation, has no experience with the US medical system, and even if the docs you work with like you, they won't be able to comment on your clinical ability which is what your LORs need to say. Any one of these issues alone would be nearly insurmountable, let alone all of them together.

I am truly sorry to be so blunt, but I would be more sorry if we gave you false hope and you wasted thousands of MORE dollars on a hopeless venture. Sadly, stories like yours are all too common, and I hope it serves as a warning to anyone considering trying to cut corners and become a doctor faster by going abroad. While I wish you the best in finding fulfillment in your current job, the door to residency is closed.

 

[CurioslySatisfying]

I don't have much more to add than what's already here. It's very unlikely you'll be getting a spot. You mentioned that you were not a good student, so chances of getting stellar scores on the USMLE are less than ideal. You'd need clinical experience to have any chance at all. Just "working with doctors" isn't going to help.

Apart from clinical rotations is there anything else that would count as clinical experience? I realize clinical rotations are what they want but since I'm a few years after graduation I don't think it's a possibility anymore.

 

[gutonc]

Apart from clinical rotations is there anything else that would count as clinical experience? I realize clinical rotations are what they want but since I'm a few years after graduation I don't think it's a possibility anymore.

No. You can't get any actual USCE at this point.

As with the others, I'm afraid your ship has sailed.

 

[AdmiralChz]

Apart from clinical rotations is there anything else that would count as clinical experience? I realize clinical rotations are what they want but since I'm a few years after graduation I don't think it's a possibility anymore.

You say a few years since graduation. Like everyone else has said if it’s within the last two years it’s a huge long shot. More than 3 years out its pretty much a no go.

 

[neoexile]

I have a bit of a lengthy story so I hope nobody minds. I went abroad to medical school after high school in the US. I wasn't a very good student and it took me 2 years extra to finish. I tried to study for the USMLE after graduation but it didn't work out and I ended up quitting without taking the test. I've done various non-medical jobs since.

The reason I decided to post this is because I recently got a job at a hospital where I'll be working closely with doctors. I'm wondering if I can manage to get good USMLE scores and get good LORs from the doctors I'm working with, does anybody think I might still have a chance at getting residency? Or should I just accept the fact that this door is closed to me forever now?

I should probably add that I'm a US citizen since I now that can be an issue.

I've seen people with 10 year gaps match. However, it was because of a compensating factor and often people like this get 250+ on their Steps and also have connections with PDs to big tier residency programs. That being said, I've known 4 of my friends with similar stories to you and none of them got interviews in their desired specialty (1 got something in Prelim surgery) and none of them matched. There was one IMG I know who had 210 on Step 1, 260 on Step 2 and 230 on Step 3 who had a long gap who also didn't match.

I don't think this is impossible (my friend just matched to pathology having a 192 Step score), but this will be extremely hard with low rate of success. After this season, I recommend all IMGs to have a 240 minimum on all their Steps since that's primarily the score range that got people to match.

 

[doc05]

It's never gonna happen. Move on.

 

[DrfluffyMD]

Since this guy have never gone to school in the US after highschool, can he still go to a 4 year college in the US and apply to MD/DO schools?

 

[tutreteetee]

I think that's a good idea. I just saw someone who did medical school abroad, then went to DO school in USA after a considerable gap. Ended up doing fellowship at Yale and is reasonably successful now.

 

[raiderette]

Since this guy have never gone to school in the US after highschool, can he still go to a 4 year college in the US and apply to MD/DO schools?

That was my thought. Of course, at this point, where is the motivation to be a doctor? Maybe explore PA or RN. What has OP been doing?

Sent from my QTAQZ3 using SDN mobile

 

[spacegun]

I've seen people with 10 year gaps match. However, it was because of a compensating factor and often people like this get 250+ on their Steps and also have connections with PDs to big tier residency programs. That being said, I've known 4 of my friends with similar stories to you and none of them got interviews in their desired specialty (1 got something in Prelim surgery) and none of them matched. There was one IMG I know who had 210 on Step 1, 260 on Step 2 and 230 on Step 3 who had a long gap who also didn't match.

I don't think this is impossible (my friend just matched to pathology having a 192 Step score), but this will be extremely hard with low rate of success. After this season, I recommend all IMGs to have a 240 minimum on all their Steps since that's primarily the score range that got people to match.

If you are an IMG with a X year gap, but you were a resident in another country, then maybe it is more likely to match? I know about an IMG who was working as a resident in the UK who got accepted in an IM residency in the US after a big gap (4-5 years).

 

[GoSpursGo]

If you are an IMG with a X year gap, but you were a resident in another country, then maybe it is more likely to match? I know about an IMG who was working as a resident in the UK who got accepted in an IM residency in the US after a big gap (4-5 years).

Sure. Not sure what he had in terms of USCE, but clearly that person had been working with patients and his clinical skills had not totally eroded. The gap itself isn't a huge issue as long as you can account for what you've been doing clinically since graduation.

 

[betamale]

I have a bit of a lengthy story so I hope nobody minds. I went abroad to medical school after high school in the US. I wasn't a very good student and it took me 2 years extra to finish. I tried to study for the USMLE after graduation but it didn't work out and I ended up quitting without taking the test. I've done various non-medical jobs since.

The reason I decided to post this is because I recently got a job at a hospital where I'll be working closely with doctors. I'm wondering if I can manage to get good USMLE scores and get good LORs from the doctors I'm working with, does anybody think I might still have a chance at getting residency? Or should I just accept the fact that this door is closed to me forever now?

I should probably add that I'm a US citizen since I now that can be an issue.

Try this program
UCLA IMG Program
The International Medical Graduate Program (IMG) - UCLA Department of Family Medicine, Los Angeles, CA

PHYSICIAN REFRESHER/RE-ENTRY PROGRAMFOR INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS
Physician Refresher/Re-entry Program for International Students - College of Medicine

I wonder if there are medical schools that will allow you to repeat a portion of the program and graduate med school again. I mean, it's undergrad medical education and I feel it's reasonable to remediate as long as you demonstrate significant maturity and professional growth the second time around. I know NYIT has a physician emigre program that will give you a DO degree, thereby, you start fresh like a new med grad.

 

[neoexile]

Try this program
UCLA IMG Program
The International Medical Graduate Program (IMG) - UCLA Department of Family Medicine, Los Angeles, CA

PHYSICIAN REFRESHER/RE-ENTRY PROGRAMFOR INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS
Physician Refresher/Re-entry Program for International Students - College of Medicine

I wonder if there are medical schools that will allow you to repeat a portion of the program and graduate med school again. I mean, it's undergrad medical education and I feel it's reasonable to remediate as long as you demonstrate significant maturity and professional growth the second time around. I know NYIT has a physician emigre program that will give you a DO degree, thereby, you start fresh like a new med grad.

I would beware programs like this. An IMG friend of mine did really well in one of these courses and still didn't match. The school that she did it at didn't give her an interview despite her stellar evaluations.

 

[DrMcLovin]

The good news is you haven’t taken the USMLE yet.

If you truly want to be a doctor in the US, I would look into BS/MD or BS/DO combined programs. It’s possible they may accept you considering you only have a HS degree from a US institution and are a citizen.

If combined programs aren’t possible, then traditional bachelors to MD/DO would be your best bet at ever becoming a physician in the US. If you take the USMLE now and do poorly your chances at ever being a physician here approach 0%.

 

[spacegun]

Can you do med school over again even if you already finished med school elsewhere? I thought that wasn’t allowed? Or is it because op doesn’t have a bachelors degree, but I don’t understand what a bachelors degree has to do with not being able to redo med school? Honest questions as I don’t know anything about this but it’s interesting still.

 

[AdmiralChz]

If you truly want to be a doctor in the US, I would look into BS/MD or BS/DO combined programs. It’s possible they may accept you considering you only have a HS degree from a US institution and are a citizen.

... is medicine in the US really THAT AMAZING that one would consider redoing the entirety of undergrad and graduate education to gain entry?

I’m thinking a long, HARD no.

 

[spacegun]

I would love to be an AA or even CRNA if I weren’t in med school already. They have cool jobs making a good salary without all the sacrifices in medicine. Perfusionist seems cool too from the other thread, but I don’t know as much about this one. Could be worth looking into. Make $150-200K for 40 hours a week. I’d say these are very good options for OP.

 

[DrMcLovin]

... is medicine in the US really THAT AMAZING that one would consider redoing the entirety of undergrad and graduate education to gain entry?

I’m thinking a long, HARD no.

That would be a personal question OP would have to answer. He did make a thread asking whether or not “residency was closed to him forever”...

Personally, I don’t think it’s completely closed if they are willing to go through the hoops and basically start from ground zero.

As far as your question/statement, I don’t think medicine in the USA is “THAT AMAZING” but obviously some do considering they sign up for the “Texas academic fresh start” program and/or start premed classes mid-career.

I enjoyed medical school for the most part and have no regrets. It could be due to working ****ty jobs before applying to med school, but fixing bones is going to be a lot more satisfying and “amazing” than fixing another toilet for $11/hr.

 

[BigRedBeta]

... is medicine in the US really THAT AMAZING that one would consider redoing the entirety of undergrad and graduate education to gain entry?

but fixing bones is going to be a lot more satisfying and “amazing” than fixing another toilet for $11/hr.

Right, it only has to be more amazing than what he's presently doing.

A rough estimate of the OP's timeline suggests they're probably 28-30 (6 years foreign med school, + 2 years = 26ish, then 2-4 years since), and there are still a number of non-traditional students out there that go back to school to complete undergraduate coursework, study for the MCAT and apply for medical school even if they already had a bachelors degree and a reasonable enough job already. Totally doable.

 

[Trismegistus4]

I have a bit of a lengthy story so I hope nobody minds.

This first sentence of your post reads as though you thought, when you started typing, that you were going to wind up typing a long post, but you didn't actually do so. Yours is not a lengthy story. THIS is a lengthy story. Wonder what ever happened to that guy?

 

[betamale]

I would beware programs like this. An IMG friend of mine did really well in one of these courses and still didn't match. The school that she did it at didn't give her an interview despite her stellar evaluations.

Hmm, maybe she wasn't that stellar? Jk. Ya, I dunno about her situation. But wouldn't generalize her experience to everyone else

 

[CurioslySatisfying]

Hmm, maybe she wasn't that stellar? Jk. Ya, I dunno about her situation. But wouldn't generalize her experience to everyone else

The only program I was familiar with like this is the NYITCOM program. Does anybody know what the match rate is for this program?

 

[CurioslySatisfying]

I know this is a bit of an old post but does anybody think that getting a PhD would help in the residency process?

 

[deleted480308]

I know this is a bit of an old post but does anybody think that getting a PhD would help in the residency process?

I don’t think a phd solves any of the problems in your application

 

[GoSpursGo]

I know this is a bit of an old post but does anybody think that getting a PhD would help in the residency process?

Unless you mean starting over and doing an MD/PhD program here in the states, then you would have an additional 4-8 years where you're doing something that isn't taking care of patients. So no.

 

[atomi]

PhD for the purposes of residency in this situation is insane. It only puts you that much further out from clinical experience. Your best bet would be to crush usmle step 1 2 and 3 a s shotgun prelim surgery programs and go from there and if that doesn’t work, repeat med school in the US.

 

[CurioslySatisfying]

Thank you all for your opinions. They've been very helpful. I do have one last question if you all don't mind. Does anybody think that joining the military as a combat medic would my residency prospects? It's involved in patient care so that's why I was wondering.

 

[GoSpursGo]

Thank you all for your opinions. They've been very helpful. I do have one last question if you all don't mind. Does anybody think that joining the military as a combat medic would my residency prospects? It's involved in patient care so that's why I was wondering.

Probably not. It still isn't the same job that you would be expected to fill as a physician. Same reason being an EMT or a medical scribe or anything like that also doesn't count--even though you have patient contact, they're totally different jobs.

 

[d2305]

Speaking English is always a plus. If I did 4 years of medical school, I sure as hell would take the test. I can't believe I know what the big 4 Caribbean schools are.

 

[CurioslySatisfying]

Speaking English is always a plus. If I did 4 years of medical school, I sure as hell would take the test. I can't believe I know what the big 4 Caribbean schools are.

Even if the chances of getting residency, as everyone else has said, is zero?

 

[d2305]

You will regret it for the rest of your life if you don't try. What if...

 

[AdmiralChz]

Thank you all for your opinions. They've been very helpful. I do have one last question if you all don't mind. Does anybody think that joining the military as a combat medic would my residency prospects? It's involved in patient care so that's why I was wondering.

This would be solid experience if you are applying to be a fire fighter, EMT or swat medic. Would also help with medical school applications.

But otherwise it’s just a technician role, not a physician. The only specialty that might find it interesting is EM, but you aren’t competitive for that specialty. Sorry, it won’t move the needle much.

 

[GoSpursGo]

You will regret it for the rest of your life if you don't try. What if...

Of course, the OP is free to decide what to do with their time and money and whether they want to accept extremely long odds. But as discussed above, the OP has much bigger problems than just needing to take step 1, so before he or she goes digging a deeper financial hole it's important that he or she has a realistic plan to address all of the deficiencies in the application.