is shadowing REALLY that necessary? Why does everyone keeps saying it is.

[jtran001]

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I really want to know if shadowing is that necessary, because I already do a lot of clinical volunteering.

For example, I volunteer at a clinic that serves the underprivileged, and although I do not make any calls or perform actions that require license, I do interact with patients and help them in whatever form I can.

I am also part of a club that interacts with children in the hospital and provide academic, fun activities for the sick children.

Please tell me this is enough clinical for my extracurricular activities, because I already know I am passionate in medicine. How much more do I have to see to know that I really like this field? It seems to me most undergrads just shadow for the sake of putting it into their applications.

Secondly, although I want to shadow, I cannot since no one around my area will take any undergrad in.

Is it really that necessary to shadow? If so, how would I do this? Cold calling does not work.

 

[LittleDandelion]

Shadowing does not make or break your application. Sure, having shadowing experience is great, since it shows that you know what you're getting yourself into. But not having shadowing experience is not a deal breaker, as long as you have other clinical experience. On a side note, one of my interviewers asked me about my shadowing experience, so I'd recommend you trying to get some.

 

[diamethuel]

At one of my interviews, the interviewer explicitly said that they look for shadowing. This might not be applicable at all schools, but I'd imagine its somewhat common. Just keep contacting doctors.

 

[moneytree]

Unlike organic chemistry or biology, shadowing isn't strictly necessary. But when most applicants have shadowing experience, and you do not, it puts you at a disadvantage. So if you want to be competitive, then yes, it kind of is necessary. Funny how that works, right? Keeping up with the Joneses.

 

[jtran001]

How did you do this? I have called like 100 and no one will take me in... It really sucks since I am from a low income family <$20,000 and my family has absolutely no connections to any doctor. any strategies?

 

[moneytree]

How did you do this? I have called like 100 and no one will take me in... It really sucks since I am from a low income family <$20,000 and my family has absolutely no connections to any doctor. any strategies?

You mention that you do a lot of clinical volunteering. Why not ask a doc at the place you volunteer?

 

[mmmcdowe]

I really want to know if shadowing is that necessary, because I already do a lot of clinical volunteering.

For example, I volunteer at a clinic that serves the underprivileged, and although I do not make any calls or perform actions that require license, I do interact with patients and help them in whatever form I can.

I am also part of a club that interacts with children in the hospital and provide academic, fun activities for the sick children.

Please tell me this is enough clinical for my extracurricular activities, because I already know I am passionate in medicine. How much more do I have to see to know that I really like this field? It seems to me most undergrads just shadow for the sake of putting it into their applications.

Secondly, although I want to shadow, I cannot since no one around my area will take any undergrad in.

Is it really that necessary to shadow? If so, how would I do this? Cold calling does not work.

Definitely not necessary if you have robust volunteering. It can be enlightening, however.

 

[Josh7]

People are saying that it's the next "hidden" checkbox that the adcoms look at.

There is no requirement for hospital volunteering but it looks bad if you don't have it.

 

[LittleDandelion]

How did you do this? I have called like 100 and no one will take me in... It really sucks since I am from a low income family <$20,000 and my family has absolutely no connections to any doctor. any strategies?

Does your school has some premed student organizations? Or premed committee? Usually they offer shadowing opportunities, even though you'll probably have to compete with tons of other premeds for limited spots. Otherwise, I know a friend who literally had to call every single physician on the phonebook to ask for shadowing and eventually got some.

 

[Pigglyjuff]

How did you do this? I have called like 100 and no one will take me in... It really sucks since I am from a low income family <$20,000 and my family has absolutely no connections to any doctor. any strategies?

Fax out your resume/cover letter to places, call to follow up a few days later, say you're a student etc. etc.

 

[jtran001]

my school actually does, but the only help they've given towards the subject of shadowing is "find your own doctor to shadow" or "shadowing is not necessary"

 

[jtran001]

are you telling me to just randomly fax my cover letter / resume to random places?

 

[tn4596]

Cold call more places. Shotgun strategy usually works. I am sure someone will take you in.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Pigglyjuff]

How did you do this? I have called like 100 and no one will take me in... It really sucks since I am from a low income family <$20,000 and my family has absolutely no connections to any doctor. any strategies?

are you telling me to just randomly fax my cover letter / resume to random places?

Yeah, if they're a little private practice place with their own website that lists a fax # just address your cover letter to Joe Bob's Family Medical Clinic and then state who you are, what you want, how many hours you want, your goals, whatever and be polite.

But always personalize the name of the practice & doctor you want. In my undergrad years, I sent two faxes to two places, and both called me back within 1-2 days after sending it and said "hey you can shadow so and so, does this day for this amount of hours work?" and I'm like, hell yeah, you bet'cha it does lol. But be prepared, some places might want a certificate of insurance from your UG school, so know how to get that from there.

 

[moneytree]

Cold call more places. Shotgun strategy usually works. I am sure someone will take you in.

Is that the strategy where you walk up to a doc and point a shotgun at him? I imagine the success rate is high.

 

[rawkfist]

referral from one doctor is usually the best, as long as you find one doctor usually they can help lead you to more opportunities. It all depends on how cool you are with the doctor though.

 

[UnclePhil]

Yes.

In my opinion, shadowing is a necessity. If you odn't have it, you will feel really awkward when interviewers ask if you know what it was like to be a doctor day to day. To me, it's more important than hospital volunteering. Hospital volunteering is good because it shows that you are (well... supposedly) a nice guy, willing to help out and you're interested in working in that sort of setting but most volunteers (at least at my hospital) do not really interact with the physicians in any meaningful fashion. The purpose of shadowing is to get an idea of what doctors actually do.

You have to be able to convince the admissions committee that you know what you're getting yourself into and that you can actually see yourself doing what a doctor actually does, from the interesting things to the mundane things.

 

[solitarius]

I know how ridiculously hard a lot of places make it to shadow, but on that same token,

Is it necessary to blow up your summer to prepare for the MCAT?
Is it necessary to waste another Friday evening staying caught up with the grinding nature of your pre-req coursework?
Is it necessary to just drive home instead of stopping by the local watering hole on Saturday because another clinical research shift has just sucked you bone dry?
Is it necessary to fill up your free time with category X of EC Y?
Is it necessary to endure the abuse these places heap on you b/c they know you're "premed"?

If you sniff around this place long enough, you'll see some incredibly desperate people here who willingly endure all this stuff + shadow. They will be applying with you.

 

[jtran001]

Cold call more places. Shotgun strategy usually works. I am sure someone will take you in.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

what in the world is shotgun strategy?

THANK YOU ALL FOR REPLYING AND HELPING

 

[911 Turbo]

Nope not necessary.

My professor from HMS told me that he had students with 0 shadowing hours.


That said... it can't hurt you

 

[UnclePhil]

I know how ridiculously hard a lot of places make it to shadow, but on that same token,

Is it necessary to blow up your summer to prepare for the MCAT?
Is it necessary to waste another Friday evening staying caught up with the grinding nature of your pre-req coursework?
Is it necessary to just drive home instead of stopping by the local watering hole on Saturday because another clinical research shift has just sucked you bone dry?
Is it necessary to fill up your free time with category X of EC Y?
Is it necessary to endure the abuse these places heap on you b/c they know you're "premed"?

If you sniff around this place long enough, you'll see some incredibly desperate people here who willingly endure all this stuff + shadow. They will be applying with you.

I think you're being a little bit over dramatic. Honestly, most of this "abuse" sounds self-inflicted. Friday nights catching up with the "grinding nature of pre-req coursework"? Med school pre-reqs make up... what... 4-5 year-long courses? And while studying for the MCAT is a giant chore, by no means should one let it ruin their summer. Honestly, one can study 7-8 hours a day 5 days a week for 7-8 weeks or so, be adequately prepared and still have plenty of time to have fun, relax or even work a job if need be.

Don't get me wrong, you have to work hard and you're busy... but you shouldn't be busy to the point where you live in some sort of miserable existence. Don't make things unnecessarily difficult for yourself just because you think that you're supposed to because you're a "pre-med".

 

[mmmcdowe]

I think you're being a little bit over dramatic. Honestly, most of this "abuse" sounds self-inflicted. Friday nights catching up with the "grinding nature of pre-req coursework"? Med school pre-reqs make up... what... 4-5 year-long courses? And while studying for the MCAT is a giant chore, by no means should one let it ruin their summer. Honestly, one can study 7-8 hours a day 5 days a week for 7-8 weeks or so, be adequately prepared and still have plenty of time to have fun, relax or even work a job if need be.

Don't get me wrong, you have to work hard and you're busy... but you shouldn't be busy to the point where you live in some sort of miserable existence. Don't make things unnecessarily difficult for yourself just because you think that you're supposed to because you're a "pre-med".

Shoulda had a V8.

Or have gone to a party school like me.

 

[Omppu27]

I think you're being a little bit over dramatic. Honestly, most of this "abuse" sounds self-inflicted. Friday nights catching up with the "grinding nature of pre-req coursework"? Med school pre-reqs make up... what... 4-5 year-long courses? And while studying for the MCAT is a giant chore, by no means should one let it ruin their summer. Honestly, one can study 7-8 hours a day 5 days a week for 7-8 weeks or so, be adequately prepared and still have plenty of time to have fun, relax or even work a job if need be.

Don't get me wrong, you have to work hard and you're busy... but you shouldn't be busy to the point where you live in some sort of miserable existence. Don't make things unnecessarily difficult for yourself just because you think that you're supposed to because you're a "pre-med".

So true. It's really not THAT BAD if you can manage your time. You'll be busy, but you shouldn't be dreading most of everything you're doing (for the most part).

Shoulda had a V8.

Or have gone to a party school like me.

incredible avatar!

 

[45408]

Yes.

In my opinion, shadowing is a necessity. If you odn't have it, you will feel really awkward when interviewers ask if you know what it was like to be a doctor day to day. To me, it's more important than hospital volunteering. Hospital volunteering is good because it shows that you are (well... supposedly) a nice guy, willing to help out and you're interested in working in that sort of setting but most volunteers (at least at my hospital) do not really interact with the physicians in any meaningful fashion. The purpose of shadowing is to get an idea of what doctors actually do.

You have to be able to convince the admissions committee that you know what you're getting yourself into and that you can actually see yourself doing what a doctor actually does, from the interesting things to the mundane things.

Absolutely agree. How can you say you want to be a physician if you've never seen firsthand what they do?

 

[DietSexy5000]

Absolutely agree. How can you say you want to be a physician if you've never seen firsthand what they do?

Agree with the idea but I definitely disagree that you need to shadow. From the sounds of it, OP works in close contact with physicians. That's a perfectly reasonable way to know if you want to pursue that career. Shadowing is effectively taking up space and actively trying not to negatively affect the environment you're in. A good clinical opportunity wherein you interact with patients and watch medical professionals do the same will absolutely serve the same purpose and be more rewarding/having something of substance to discuss with an interviewer, in my opinion.

 

[BABSstudent]

I really want to know if shadowing is that necessary, because I already do a lot of clinical volunteering.

For example, I volunteer at a clinic that serves the underprivileged, and although I do not make any calls or perform actions that require license, I do interact with patients and help them in whatever form I can.

I am also part of a club that interacts with children in the hospital and provide academic, fun activities for the sick children.

Please tell me this is enough clinical for my extracurricular activities, because I already know I am passionate in medicine. How much more do I have to see to know that I really like this field? It seems to me most undergrads just shadow for the sake of putting it into their applications.

Secondly, although I want to shadow, I cannot since no one around my area will take any undergrad in.

Is it really that necessary to shadow? If so, how would I do this? Cold calling does not work.

If I were an adcom member, I would be able to see you like interacting with people in a clinical setting. However, I do not see where you know what it is like to be a doctor. I think you may be happier being a nurse since you would get to carry on with these activities. How would you prove that you want to be a doctor? You would need to know what it is like to be one. That is where shadowing comes into play.

Also, of course cold calling doesn't work. You are talking to secretaries who have been told to say the doctors don't want students to shadow them. How many doctors answer their own phone? Instead, write a cover letter explaining what you want in a shadow experience, how many hours per week, and for a certain length of time (like every Friday for 5 weeks starting on September X and going to October Y, from noon to 4 PM). Make sure the dates you give them are well in advance (a few weeks) so they can prepare. Write in there that they can contact you back either at your cell phone or email and that you will follow up in a week if you haven't heard back. Attach your CV to the cover letter and drop it off at various clinics around town. This method worked a lot better for me.

 

[RamanS]

I would say that although it is not required, it would greatly help your application! 🙂

 

[iforget2]

Like Josh7 said, it certainly is a hidden checkbox for adcoms. If 90% of the other applicants have shadowed doctors before and know what the daily life of a doctor is, wouldn't this be putting you at a disadvantage?

And the shotgun metaphor that was previously mentioned just means apply to a lot and hope to get at least one shadowing opportunity

 

[DHURT]

If you are capable of demonstrating and convincing the AdCom you are knowledgeable of the profession without such experience, more power to you. For me shadowing put purpose to schooling and lit a fire within.

 

[NickNaylor]

I don't understand why people have such a disdain for shadowing. I thoroughly enjoyed it. You get to learn more about the profession you are (in theory) passionate about. By no means am I the sort of bleeding-heart-super-intense-passion guy, but I thought it was pretty awesome getting to watch how physicians do what they do.

Seeing it as an experience to learn about the career and whether it's something you want to do or not rather than as simply a checkbox that must be marked would probably go a long way for you. Also, try and pick something in a specialty you at least have some interest in. If all that fails and you still don't find medicine or what physicians do interesting, perhaps you should reconsider whether the field is the right one for you. Obviously following/watching and doing aren't the same as doing, but if you're shadowing a physician that does stuff and watching that stuff is boring for you, I'd question whether or not I would want to go through the ridiculous 7+ year obstacle course necessary to become a physician.

 

[steezmonster]

It's advantageous as it allows a first-hand account of what the day-to-day of a physician is like. Also, it allows you to get insight into various specialties. Perhaps you will find interventional cardiology interesting etc. And the networking always helps.

Also, try to contact physicians in university hospitals. They are more interested in teaching.

 

[Sophocles]

I've personally spoken to many of the adcoms in NYC and have sat in on many dean panels from the northeast U.S. and they all said that it's necessary.

The way I see it is that if it's a question than err on the side of caution. It can't hurt you and will def. help you. So why not do it? No one is that busy where they cannot afford to give 4 hours per week. We all do it. I did it and I have a full course load, many other volunteering activities, and a wife and son.

 

[beachbum87]

If you're having trouble shadowing, definitely take the shotgun approach like someone else mention. Also, I've found more success with private practice docs. I have shadowed one HMO doc, though it took longer, had to fill out a few forms with HR dept, etc.

Also, you have more connections than you think. I don't know a ortho personally or through family, but my friend tore his acl a couple years back. I called his doc, dropped his name, said that my friend thought he did an excellent job and that I would really like to see his approach to medicine. He let me shadow him in the clinic and let me observe a couple of surgeries, not a full scrub in but I was in the room and could see quite a bit.

 

[xXIDaShizIXx]

At one of my interviews, the interviewer explicitly said that they look for shadowing. This might not be applicable at all schools, but I'd imagine its somewhat common. Just keep contacting doctors.

Yes, I'd rather have it than not have it though.

 

[circulus vitios]

I don't understand why people have such a disdain for shadowing. I thoroughly enjoyed it. You get to learn more about the profession you are (in theory) passionate about. By no means am I the sort of bleeding-heart-super-intense-passion guy, but I thought it was pretty awesome getting to watch how physicians do what they do.

I can't figure this out, either. I'm looking forward to shadowing whereas I dread hospital volunteering.

 

[UnclePhil]

Agree with the idea but I definitely disagree that you need to shadow. From the sounds of it, OP works in close contact with physicians. That's a perfectly reasonable way to know if you want to pursue that career. Shadowing is effectively taking up space and actively trying not to negatively affect the environment you're in. A good clinical opportunity wherein you interact with patients and watch medical professionals do the same will absolutely serve the same purpose and be more rewarding/having something of substance to discuss with an interviewer, in my opinion.

Being "in close contact with physicians" doesn't mean that you get an idea of what their job is like day to day. It's not the same thing as spending time with a physician. The purpose is not to have "substance" to talk about with an interviewer about how meaningful an experience it was, the purpose is to show that you have spent some time seeing what the job is actually like.

No offense, but if you actually think that by volunteering, or just having patient contact in a hospital gives you a good idea of what a doctor does, all that tells me is that you don't really know yourself. No one is claiming that you are contributing anything by shadowing, that's not the purpose, it's meant to be a learning experience for the student, which is why students should be very grateful to the doctors that give them that opportunity.

And like Naylor says, it's enjoyable. Usually when you shadow, the doctors tend to be engaging, they like to teach, they like to explain what they are doing, how they think about clinical problems and give insight to their reasoning processes. And if you shadow them for a while, you also get to see a wider breadth of what doctors do, what it's like in their clinic, what kinds of procedures they may do, what it's like on an inpatient ICU service, what it's like on their consult service, etc. basically... the stuff that you would be doing if you had his/her job. I have never heard of a volunteer getting this kind of exposure... they wouldn't even have time to do the tasks that they are volunteering for.

 

[45408]

I can't figure this out, either. I'm looking forward to shadowing whereas I dread hospital volunteering.

For good reason. When I volunteered, I did a lot of "go fetch," but when I shadowed, I saw a heart bypass, carotid endarterectomy, some hernias, some gall bladders, some gyn procedures, some ortho scopes, and several days in the ED. It's really a no-brainer. Do you want to see cool stuff or do boring stuff?

 

[DietSexy5000]

In my humble experience, I didn't really like shadowing. I got to follow doctors in emergency medicine and radiology and the first few times were interesting but beyond that I got tired of watching and wanted some measure of responsibility. I chose to move to a free clinic where they trained us to take blood pressure, temp, vision and hearing, etc. and the undergrads got to do those types of things. The physicians there kept an eye on us and taught us the very basics of providing care from a technical point of view (i.e. the best ways to use the stethoscope to get the best blood pressure reading) and how to interact with patients using basic emotional skills. To me, the active involvement and nonzero responsibility made it infinitely more meaning, to the point I didn't even include my shadowing on the primary. Just my $.02 though.

 

[HughMyron]

Shadowing: Learn what physicians actually do.

Volunteering: Play Angry Birds and read magazines while waiting for the occasional patient.

 

[solitarius]

I think you're being a little bit over dramatic. Honestly, most of this "abuse" sounds self-inflicted. Friday nights catching up with the "grinding nature of pre-req coursework"? Med school pre-reqs make up... what... 4-5 year-long courses? And while studying for the MCAT is a giant chore, by no means should one let it ruin their summer. Honestly, one can study 7-8 hours a day 5 days a week for 7-8 weeks or so, be adequately prepared and still have plenty of time to have fun, relax or even work a job if need be.

Don't get me wrong, you have to work hard and you're busy... but you shouldn't be busy to the point where you live in some sort of miserable existence. Don't make things unnecessarily difficult for yourself just because you think that you're supposed to because you're a "pre-med".

UnclePhil, you sound like a cool guy. Someone I hope I can transition to after the MCAT is over.

While the post is slightly dramatic, it accurately describes my premed experience. Premed was fairly manageable until the start of the previous academic year, when everything really intensified.

 

[Chrome19]

I didn't have documented shadowing experiences, but that didn't stop me from getting interviews. However, I got asked about it during some interviews, suggesting it's a "requirement". I believe this was the reason one school waitlisted me. Either way, I did shadow doctors in middle/high school, but I still have a disdain for shadowing just because it's a "requirement". Most undergrads shadow/volunteer because it's a "requirement".

Shadowing doesn't tell you what medicine is like just as undergraduate research doesn't tell you squat about what it means to be an independent investigator. Shadowing and related issues are just part of the pretentious nature of medical school admissions. I'm happy to be done with that process.

 

[Charles_Carmichael]

I don't understand why people have such a disdain for shadowing. I thoroughly enjoyed it. You get to learn more about the profession you are (in theory) passionate about. By no means am I the sort of bleeding-heart-super-intense-passion guy, but I thought it was pretty awesome getting to watch how physicians do what they do.

Agreed. I'm pretty sure I got a lot more out of shadowing physicians than all the hours I spent in the hospital volunteering. Maybe I got lucky with the physicians I shadowed -- some of them walked me through their thought-processes in coming up with a differential, made a point of having me tag along when there was an interesting patient, etc.

And like Naylor says, it's enjoyable. Usually when you shadow, the doctors tend to be engaging, they like to teach, they like to explain what they are doing, how they think about clinical problems and give insight to their reasoning processes.

Yup, it was very cool and confirmed for me that this really is the profession I want to go into (as cheesy as that sounds)!

For what it's worth, at nearly every interview, I was asked something about shadowing. It was about the number of hours only once (ie. "How many hours have you shadowed physicians?"), but most often, it was a question something along the lines of "What experience from shadowing really sticks out for you?" or something like that.

 

[faw20]

I thought shadowing was stupid also. However it's part of the process. Start with your own physician, your parents physicians, and go from there. I was in a similar situation, and my doctor at the time hooked me up with a few other physicians to shadow. If there are any residency programs near you, try them. They may be more understanding of your plight.

 

[jtran001]

guys, it's not that i DONT want to shadow, it's just that i CANT... =/ I live in california, and UGH I just called 400 more physicians today and no one will take me in. Almost every physician, even with private offices, are employed by the hospital... and all of the hospitals have a "no shadowing" rule... I don't even know if sending out a resume is going to work honestly...

Ps. I LIVE IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA

 

[BigBlueBear]

guys, it's not that i DONT want to shadow, it's just that i CANT... =/ I live in california, and UGH I just called 400 more physicians today and no one will take me in. Almost every physician, even with private offices, are employed by the hospital... and all of the hospitals have a "no shadowing" rule...

I know how frustrating this must be. I cold called maybe 50-100 and nobody said yes. I finally was able to get in with one (my best friend's parent's neighbor) and that got my foot in the door. Use absolutely any possible connection you can think of. Ask all your friends to help you out. I'm sure something will turn up.

 

[jtran001]

it makes me so frustrated, because I do not want this ONE thing to destroy my chances of getting accepted into medical school when I am maintaining a near perfect gpa, have tons of interesting volunteer experiences, published multiple times, have organized (and started) benefit concerts THROUGHOUT the year, started county wide organizations, and done a few internships out of state...

I do what I enjoy, and it is serving the community. Quite honestly, I want to become a doctor to help the underserved, and it's just frustrating to me that just because I can't walk around to shadow will instantly cause me to get waitlisted and rejected... I feel like everyone is telling me that I WILL get rejected despite everything I do over an applicant who embodies cookie cutter ideals and only follows a check list as opposed to pursuing true passion and interests

btw, I am passionate about medicine, and i KNOW what a doctor does. I've seen them around the hospital and at the homeless clinic that I am part of... okay...

My family makes <$20k a year and I have absolutely no connections to any type of doctor or anyone in the medical field. I go to my university on a full ride... and I eat scraps of my friend's food if you don't believe me. I am not kidding... I live in the ghettos and everyday, people get mugged in my neighborhood... i do not know ANYONE who can help at all...

i am NOT a troll, and I am completely serious.

I am not URM, and my family came from another country legally and attained a green card... I am a first generation college student, and it is very very hard to afford anything. I could not even afford a computer, and I actually earned mine's through a scholarship... and all of this situation about shadowing is just qualming

I just hope medical school can see past this shadowing issue... because it's not like I am from a middle class family who has connections to doctors

 

[BigBlueBear]

Lol don't worry. If you have a good app shadowing won't get your rejected everywhere 😛

 

[jtran001]

i really wanna go to a top 10 because it'll provide me the reputation to initiate my plans to help the underserved communities

 

[jtran001]

Lol don't worry. If you have a good app shadowing won't get your rejected everywhere 😛

thank you bear!!!

 

[circulus vitios]

http://cf.osteopathic.org/iLearn/home.cfm

Sign up and try finding mentors in your area. The website explicitly mentions shadowing, so you stand a good chance at finding someone who will let you shadow.