is shadowing REALLY that necessary? Why does everyone keeps saying it is.

[beyondhuman]

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You should be able to ask the director of the free clinic if you can come in and volunteer. I have had some success with this. The downside is that it is a fairly unique clinical experience (it is only somewhat comparable to actually working as a doctor these days). The upside is that you will get to see some crazy illnesses/injuries that people who can afford medical care rarely develop and that can be very interesting and easy to talk about in PS and interviews.

I would also recommend going into hospitals (in person) and hunting down the person who coordinates shadowing. Just keep politely asking for the person till you find them. Typically a hospital will let you shadow about 10 hours and more if you are a volunteer there.

Another option is to ask your primary care physician or if your campus is associated with a student health clinic stop by there and ask to shadow.

Since you don't have connections you probably won't be able to do a large chunk of shadowing with one doctor but you should definitely be able to shadow many docs in various specialties through these channels.

And to all the folks bashing volunteering. The kind of free clinic volunteering this person is talking about was likely much more interactive than your hospital volunteering.

Additionally I doubt you need to go to a top 10 school to work with the undeserved. Choosing a public school with a good rural health/urban health/global health track will probably be a better route and likely be cheaper giving you more freedom to do this kind of work for little or no pay. Well unless you get a great scholarship into one of these specialized programs at a top 10 but yeah good luck with that.

 

[UnclePhil]

guys, it's not that i DONT want to shadow, it's just that i CANT... =/ I live in california, and UGH I just called 400 more physicians today and no one will take me in. Almost every physician, even with private offices, are employed by the hospital... and all of the hospitals have a "no shadowing" rule... I don't even know if sending out a resume is going to work honestly...

Ps. I LIVE IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA

Have you tried university hospitals? Academic hospitals seem to be a little more flexible about this sort of stuff.

 

[nazmar]

I live in Southern California too, and as Uncle Phil said about academic hospitals, why don't you try Loma Linda University Medical Center? I don't know much, but I believe they're an academic hospital therefore may be more lenient in your plight. If you try them, let me know actually: I need to get shadowing experience myself.

 

[jtran001]

nazmar... UCI and Loma Linda does NOT allow shadowing unless you know someone who works there like a parent... even my friend who had both of her parents work at Loma Linda could not rack up more than 10 hours... and UCI is like a big NO! =/

 

[Miss Terious]

I had a terrible shadowing experience but I suppose I'm the odd one out here. The pediatrician I shadowed spent the entire time that he was away from his patients either ignoring me or encouraging me not to pursue medicine. I got to watch him do paper work though and occasionally,when he was with the patients, he would explain what he was doing. But that was more of an occasion than the norm.
When I hear of all these incredible shadowing experiences, I really wonder where mine went wrong. I asked all the questions I could think of and rarely ever received an answer dissimilar to "don't worry you'll learn it some day in medical school... If you make it".. 🙁

There were plenty of teaching opportunities and it's an incredibly busy clinic. Perhaps the stress of his job was a big factor. Who knows

Anyway OP, teaching hospitals are very open to students shadowing doctors there. If you live near one, try calling people there! Otherwise DO's may be more open minded to letting you shadow them 🙂


Blame it on the a-a-a-autocorrect.

 

[00391917]

It's not mandatory but if you are really serious about med school then everything helps. Plus, it will show you kinda know about what you are getting into and something to talk about during interviews. However, if you have a lot of other great things to talk about on your resume then you would still have a shot. But in my opinion it is better to be safe then srry

 

[notbobtrustme]

Pre-med committee is best.

Otherwise, you need a foot in the door. The only shadowing opportinity I got was because our collaborator for my PhD was an MD who also saw patients, so it was a pretty easy segue into shadowing for a couple days.

 

[beyondhuman]

Speaking of DO shadowing...if you call up DO school you can probably get a list of alumni in your area who are open to letting premeds shadow (since DO shadowing is basically required for many of these schools).

I have just such a list of A.T. Still alumni in my area so I know at least that is one school that will do such a thing.

 

[serendipity007]

Is that the strategy where you walk up to a doc and point a shotgun at him? I imagine the success rate is high.

wonder why

 

[mvenus929]

Definitely not necessary if you have robust volunteering. It can be enlightening, however.

False. Volunteering is not the same as shadowing. Volunteering shows that you're a good person. Shadowing shows that you know what it's like to be a doctor.

People are saying that it's the next "hidden" checkbox that the adcoms look at.

There is no requirement for hospital volunteering but it looks bad if you don't have it.

No, hospital volunteering is not required; it's just what people do because they want to kill two birds with one stone. As far as volunteering goes, working at the Boys and Girls club is just as, if not more, valuable as volunteering at a hospital.

From the sounds of it, OP works in close contact with physicians. That's a perfectly reasonable way to know if you want to pursue that career. Shadowing is effectively taking up space and actively trying not to negatively affect the environment you're in. A good clinical opportunity wherein you interact with patients and watch medical professionals do the same will absolutely serve the same purpose and be more rewarding/having something of substance to discuss with an interviewer, in my opinion.

It completely depends on what you're doing. If you're working as a scribe, or a CNA, or something where you actually have to talk to physicians and see what they do on a day to day basis, then yeah, a good clinical opportunity can substitute for shadowing.

If, however, you're working as a receptionist, or as a volunteer in a waiting room, you don't really see what the physician does behind closed doors. You may see part of their lifestyle as a physician, but that doesn't mean you know what they do.

i really wanna go to a top 10 because it'll provide me the reputation to initiate my plans to help the underserved communities

You don't need to go to a top 10 school to help underserved communities. There are plenty of schools with strong ties to their own underserved communities, as well as those elsewhere and worldwide (UVA, for instance, along with VCU and EVMS, sends physicians every year to RAM clinic in SW Virginia. None of them are in the top 10).

 

[RogueUnicorn]

i had 0 shadowing and i did ok

 

[circulus vitios]

The osteopathic mentor I e-mailed hasn't responded so I ended up e-mailing a residency program director at my local teaching hospital. It was kind of a long shot but he happily agreed to set me up with physicians to shadow. 👍

 

[ShenanigansMD]

It's good to shatter any preconceived notions you have of being a physician, especially if you think it's like any of the following:

ER
Grey's Anatomy
Scrubs
House
M*A*S*H
Candy Land

Plus, I've shadowed some great and insightful doctors, (and surgeons are definitely not short on humor).

 

[Disinence2]

0 clinical hours of shadowing before med school here

 

[mdambitions]

My PCP laughed at me when I told him I wanted to go to medical school. He said going into medicine these days was the most ridiculous career decision he had ever heard of, and shadowing was a waste of time. The sentiment was echoed by my OB/GYN. Even though I've volunteered at a local academic hospital for years, I was told by the volunteer coordinator that they didn't support shadowing because of HIPAA regulations.

My school has no premed committee. I personally knew no other doctors. My premed adviser recommended walking straight into doctor's offices, because it would be easier to get past the nurses. This did not work. Cold calling 50+ physicians did not work. Sending my CV/Resume left me completely ignored.

Finally, while venting to a friend about how frustrating the whole process was, she said her high school best friend's dad was a radiologist at a local hospital and a real nice guy. A day later I had an appointment to shadow. I started asking other friends, and a coworker told me his bishop was a partner at an oncology practice. I've spent two full days shadowing him.

I can't believe I had overlooked the importance of connections. Shadowing not only confirmed my decision to go to medical school, but I learned its unlikely that I would be happy as a radiologist; a doctor that seems to talk to mostly other doctors. I was much more pleased by the long term, intimate patient care involved with being a medical oncologist. And a bonus? I saw something that the oncologist said he's only read about in board review material, a once in a career kind of situation. The experience was eye-opening in a way that volunteering never was.

You may not know any doctors, but I bet you have friends or professors that do. With all of your volunteering and your nearly perfect GPA, I'm sure you've impressed someone along the way, who would be happy to help you out. Keep looking, Keep at it. You don't need hundreds of hours, just a couple of days to make sure you know what its like to actually be a doctor. It'll be worth it, good luck!

 

[punkedoutriffs]

I think everybody should do SOME shadowing, but I feel after 40 or so hours, you are probably getting diminished returns. You're not going to learn THAT much more about the daily routine of a physician, and further insights about the profession can be better obtained through reading articles and essays written by physicians.

 

[olecranon4]

No shadowing, but plenty of clinical experience.

7 interview invites so far, so take it how you will.

 

[punkedoutriffs]

No shadowing, but plenty of clinical experience.

7 interview invites so far, so take it how you will.

That's it. I'm going out and buying a bottle of scotch and a gun.

 

[alpinism]

Shadowing isn't for adcoms, its for you.

The people who don't shadow (or only shadow 1 doc for a couple hrs) are usually the same people who think they can work 50hrs/wk only M-F w/ no call as a transplant surgeon. Then they find out what medicine and being a doctor is really like during 3rd yr and suddenly they have no idea what they want to do w/ their life...

Unless you've had a long-term clinical job that allowed you to extensively interact w/ physicians while caring for patients, you're pretty much shooting yourself in the foot.

 

[Ajax16]

My PCP laughed at me when I told him I wanted to go to medical school. He said going into medicine these days was the most ridiculous career decision he had ever heard of, and shadowing was a waste of time. The sentiment was echoed by my OB/GYN. Even though I've volunteered at a local academic hospital for years, I was told by the volunteer coordinator that they didn't support shadowing because of HIPAA regulations.

My school has no premed committee. I personally knew no other doctors. My premed adviser recommended walking straight into doctor's offices, because it would be easier to get past the nurses. This did not work. Cold calling 50+ physicians did not work. Sending my CV/Resume left me completely ignored.

Finally, while venting to a friend about how frustrating the whole process was, she said her high school best friend's dad was a radiologist at a local hospital and a real nice guy. A day later I had an appointment to shadow. I started asking other friends, and a coworker told me his bishop was a partner at an oncology practice. I've spent two full days shadowing him.

I can't believe I had overlooked the importance of connections. Shadowing not only confirmed my decision to go to medical school, but I learned its unlikely that I would be happy as a radiologist; a doctor that seems to talk to mostly other doctors. I was much more pleased by the long term, intimate patient care involved with being a medical oncologist. And a bonus? I saw something that the oncologist said he's only read about in board review material, a once in a career kind of situation. The experience was eye-opening in a way that volunteering never was.

You may not know any doctors, but I bet you have friends or professors that do. With all of your volunteering and your nearly perfect GPA, I'm sure you've impressed someone along the way, who would be happy to help you out. Keep looking, Keep at it. You don't need hundreds of hours, just a couple of days to make sure you know what its like to actually be a doctor. It'll be worth it, good luck!

This^^

 

[ShenanigansMD]

That's it. I'm going out and buying a bottle of scotch and a gun.

🤣

 

[yellowfish]

This isn't going to make or break your application.

Don't kill yourself over finding a doctor to shadow. You can "learn what it's like to be a doctor" in other ways, and if you have other clinical experience adcoms most likely won't question why you don't have shadowing at all.

I barely had any shadowing, and didn't mention it a single time in my AMCAS.

Seriously, it's not a big deal - especially if you're applying relatively broadly (as a select few schools may place some sort of special emphasis on shadowing). Do it if you can, but don't sweat it if you can't.

 

[kryptonian]

guys, it's not that i DONT want to shadow, it's just that i CANT... =/ I live in california, and UGH I just called 400 more physicians today and no one will take me in. Almost every physician, even with private offices, are employed by the hospital... and all of the hospitals have a "no shadowing" rule... I don't even know if sending out a resume is going to work honestly...

Ps. I LIVE IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA

OP. I totally feel you. I'm in the exact same boat, but I may be in a little better shape because I was able to get one day done. I cold-called too and at one private clinic I persistently insisted them to let me shadow. At the beginning, they constantly ditched me but eventually they let me shadow one day and that was it ! I'm still on my quest to find more shadowing opportunities, but just want to share that little experience. Pick one place and persistently insist them to let you shadow. Maybe they will let you shadow for a day like my situation. At least something is better than nothing.

 

[jtran001]

I know y'all gonna laugh but... none of my "ghetto" friends know any doctor (yes we all are very poor). The only people who do know the doctors are the wealthier population at my school, and they're not very nice people. No connection. I know college is about being open-minded and accepting, but these wealthier kids call us out all of the time. My school is predominantly rich kids, hence why I probably got a full ride.

My PI, professors, etc, I've tried. Nothing there.

If you ahve any more advice, please keep telling me.

I guess shadowing will not inhibit my chances at medical school as long as I have a stellar application.

 

[pietachok]

If you don't shadow, you need to have something that serves as proof you know what daily life is like for a physician. I'm not a big fan of pre-med shadowing, but I do think it's a good idea to find a volunteer or paid job that gets you similar exposure.

If you are in Southern California, contact all of the local med school admissions offices & ask for help finding something. At least one clinical medicine instructor will have some alumni to suggest contacting. If that doesn't work, I'm 100% positive the DO schools have such lists, because they are much more strict about requiring shadowing. It will not make any difference that it's a DO (except you may see some manual manipulation). Again, it's unnecessary if you have other equivalent experience that was obtained without being formally called shadowing. (all my "shadowing" was employment as a research coordinator)

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

I know y'all gonna laugh but... none of my "ghetto" friends know any doctor (yes we all are very poor). The only people who do know the doctors are the wealthier population at my school, and they're not very nice people. No connection. I know college is about being open-minded and accepting, but these wealthier kids call us out all of the time. My school is predominantly rich kids, hence why I probably got a full ride.

My PI, professors, etc, I've tried. Nothing there.

If you ahve any more advice, please keep telling me.

I guess shadowing will not inhibit my chances at medical school as long as I have a stellar application.

Yeah hospitals aren't usually big fans of shadowing. Contacting hospital administrators is not the way to go. You'll notice all the people here keep saying "get hooked up with alumni" or "ask the premed/med school office to put you in touch with doctors".

That's because doctors usually just let the people they want follow them around without clearing it with anyone and everyone is used to random people following drs around so they don't ask many questions about it. Basically you need to find a hook-up and if you don't you're probably out of luck. If you can find work or research in places that have physicians around you can probably find someone to shadow. They need to have some kind of connection to you (you work there, you do research at their institution, you got hooked up through the alumni office/premed club, etc.). It doesn't have to be some strong, personal connection but you need to be more to them than random kid 100 off the street asking to follow them around for days.

 

[LizzyM]

From an up-coming issue of the Archives of Internal Medicine about what internists do:



To our knowledge, this is the first study to empirically document the actual work associated with the provision of primary care by a large cohort of general internists. In a typical clinic day in this study, the general internist ordered 70 laboratory tests, images, and consultations; wrote and signed 31 prescriptions; responded to 7 patient care–oriented messages; and reviewed, edited, and signed 19 Electronic Medical Record (EMR) documents. Most of these tasks occur outside the face-to-face episode of care and consume a substantial proportion of the work day of general internists. Although we performed a comprehensive assessment of workload performed by general internists outside the office visit, we did not capture all tasks completed by general internists, and thus our estimate of clinical care tasks performed outside the office visit is conservative.

While nonvisit care has the potential of improving access to care by reducing office visits1 and patient outcomes, such nonvisit care leads to a substantial physician workload that is by in large invisible and nonreimbursed.


If you go about your business as a volunteer, or if you base your experinece on accompanying grandma to her many doctor visits, you will not see what goes on behind the scenes.

Contact the alumni office of your university and ask if they have any local alumni who are physicians. Then ask if they will reach out for you and see if the alumnus would be willing to mentor (including shadowing) an undergrad. Alumni offices often love this opportunity to get alumni involved so it is worth a shot.

 

[DocBoy3000]

I highly recommend shadowing. Today happened to only be my second day shadowing an orthopedic surgeon and I really enjoy it. I have volunteered in hospitals for over 200 hours but it is nothing like the shadowing that I am doing now. Suprisingly, I find that every aspect of their job is fascinating; the surgeries, explanation of x-rays, even the clinical portion.
During surgery, the physicians try to explain as much of what they are doing as possible to me. It has really convinced me that this is the right career for me.

 

[katiemaude]

My PCP laughed at me when I told him I wanted to go to medical school. He said going into medicine these days was the most ridiculous career decision he had ever heard of, and shadowing was a waste of time. The sentiment was echoed by my OB/GYN. Even though I've volunteered at a local academic hospital for years, I was told by the volunteer coordinator that they didn't support shadowing because of HIPAA regulations.

My school has no premed committee. I personally knew no other doctors. My premed adviser recommended walking straight into doctor's offices, because it would be easier to get past the nurses. This did not work. Cold calling 50+ physicians did not work. Sending my CV/Resume left me completely ignored.

Finally, while venting to a friend about how frustrating the whole process was, she said her high school best friend's dad was a radiologist at a local hospital and a real nice guy. A day later I had an appointment to shadow. I started asking other friends, and a coworker told me his bishop was a partner at an oncology practice. I've spent two full days shadowing him.

I can't believe I had overlooked the importance of connections. Shadowing not only confirmed my decision to go to medical school, but I learned its unlikely that I would be happy as a radiologist; a doctor that seems to talk to mostly other doctors. I was much more pleased by the long term, intimate patient care involved with being a medical oncologist. And a bonus? I saw something that the oncologist said he's only read about in board review material, a once in a career kind of situation. The experience was eye-opening in a way that volunteering never was.

You may not know any doctors, but I bet you have friends or professors that do. With all of your volunteering and your nearly perfect GPA, I'm sure you've impressed someone along the way, who would be happy to help you out. Keep looking, Keep at it. You don't need hundreds of hours, just a couple of days to make sure you know what its like to actually be a doctor. It'll be worth it, good luck!

Word.

Also, shadowing is to YOUR benefit. It's supposed to help you figure out if it's the right career for you and might even help you decide early if there's a specialty that interests you.

I found my shadowing opportunities this way, and I ended up following:
- an orthopedic surgeon who used to date the woman whose kids my mom tutored
- a PCP who is the brother of my friend's boyfriend
- an endocrinologist who is my cousin's cousin
- a bunch of random ER docs who work in the places I volunteered and worked

One of the hospitals in my area has a formal shadowing program as well. I didn't do it. The kids who did often seemed to be ditched in the hallway by busy surgeons.

 

[ModernAlchemist]

All the shadowing I have done has been in Southern California. The best thing to do is inquire at free clinics, clinics for underserved populations, or teaching hospitals. Direct all of your calling efforts at places like that and I would be surprised if you didn't find something pretty quickly.