Is sitting out a year for in-state residency worth it?

[Petieaz]

---

Members do not see this ad.

So here is the situation...
I am a former financial advisor. I have my degree in finance and worked for a couple of brokerage firms for a few years. A year and a half ago I decided to quit my job and go back to school to get my prereqs for dental school.
I have a 3.0 on my undergrad, which isn't that great I know. However, I am now done with my General Bio, Gen Chems, Organic Chems and Physics and have straight A's. I am still going to take Biochem, Microbio and Anat and Phys.

I have been in touch with a number schools over the last year and flown out and taken tours of several. I have been very well received so far and most of them told me that as long as I do well on the DAT, scheduled for the end of May, I have a decent chance. Schools I have toured are ASDOH, Midwestern, Louisville, UK, Ohio State, Case Western, Pittsburgh and Indiana.

I know TX is often a hot topic on hear, but I wanted to ask some advice....
If I get into, say Louisville, the out of state expenses in the ADEA book say I would be in the neighborhood of 315,000 in debt after school. I have a wife and a couple kids, so my expenses would be even more. So for sake of argument, say expenses ended up being 355,000 all in.

Payments amortized over 30 years at 7.5 to 8%, which I understand are going rates for student loans, would be around 2600 dollars a month.

Texas, in state at UT Houston, for example, would be around 180,000 + the same additional 40,000 I included on Louisville's estimate, I am at 220,000. Payments amortized over 30 years would be around 1500-1600 dollars a month, or over 15 years would be 2100 dollars a month, 500 dollars a month less, for 15 years less than what it would cost to pay off Louisville for 30.

Comparing Louisville debt vs in state TX debt I would not only be saving the initial 135,000 in debt, but in interest, the total amount that I would save, including interest would be well over 550,000 dollars over the course of the loans.

Also, having only 1500-2100 (depending on amortization schedule) vs 2600-3400, in student loan overhead, it would seem reasonable to think you could get into your own practice or buy a practice a bit easier than having the heavier payments.

I am not a TX resident, I have family in Dallas and Houston. I could sit a year out, meaning not apply this May, move to TX, work, get in-state residency and apply the following year. Or I can apply this year, keep my momentum that I have in school, take the debt on the chin and move on.

Any thoughts? I think too many people dive right into the debt without knowing what they are getting into, however, I also don't want to focus on the money too much if in the end it really doesn't matter.
Being a former finance guy, I tend to focus on the money aspect of things...I just don't want to focus too hard on it, if that makes sense...

I would love to hear from some people that moved to get in-state or any new dentists or experienced dentists know how hard the debt really is to pay off. Or any body else that has some advice.

Thanks for the input!

 

[ewu6three]

I'd love to advise you, but first... I'm a former electrician, I was wondering if you could give me some advice. I'm rewiring my basement, I wonder if you might look over the blueprints for me, give me an idea of how I should start.

 

[Petieaz]

Thanks for the reply.
And the sarcasm. 🙂
I am new to the forum, and I am hoping that there are some people out there, who have gone through this already (and possibly a similar thought process) that might offer some advice.

 

[jeffity]

What do you anticipate you GPA to be a year from now? That might be a hurdle for you. Everyone would love TX. Residency would help, but you'll need to be pretty competitive elsewhere (DAT) if your GPA is in the lower realm. BCP, recent trend, and sGPA are good too, but that cGPA might sting.

Is moving and finding work to get residency doable? Smart move planning ahead and getting out to see schools.

 

[Petieaz]

My overall GPA will be up to a 3.3 if I maintain 4.0 sciences, which I have so far.
And I think I will be able to maintain. I know that that is a weak point, but most schools that I have talked to have said that they will look more at my recent classes and sciences and DAT.

I have family in TX and they have said before that they know people that could line me up for work if I wanted it. So yes, the move is possible and as long as we are there and working prior to Oct 1. (1 year prior to next application deadline) we would be considered in-staters for application year 2014, matriculation 2015.

 

[doc toothache]

I am a former financial advisor. I have my degree in finance and worked for a couple of brokerage firms for a few years.

You want financial advice from predents? No wonder the market went south for so many investors.

 

[Ferneezy]

My overall GPA will be up to a 3.3 if I maintain 4.0 sciences, which I have so far.
And I think I will be able to maintain. I know that that is a weak point, but most schools that I have talked to have said that they will look more at my recent classes and sciences and DAT.

I have family in TX and they have said before that they know people that could line me up for work if I wanted it. So yes, the move is possible and as long as we are there and working prior to Oct 1. (1 year prior to next application deadline) we would be considered in-staters for application year 2014, matriculation 2015.

if you are comfy waiting another year to apply, go for it. at that point, you'll probably apply to all the other schools you were going to apply to this year as well.

when i opened this thread i was expecting to read about an OP sitting on an acceptance and considering declining to roll the dice again the following year...then i would pity you.

 

[emorypredent]

I think you only added one year of family expenses. Cause the $10,000/yr sounds insignificant unless your wife will be generating a significant amount of income.

Personally, I think it's not worth the wait. Get in as soon as you can. With that said you should plan to move anyway so just invade you do not get in, the following cycle you will be set.

 

[User8088]

What if you were to move to TX, wait a whole year to apply and then only get into Louisville? You would then have to move again. Don't you think all that moving around esp with a family might be a little difficult?

I'd love to advise you, but first... I'm a former electrician, I was wondering if you could give me some advice. I'm rewiring my basement, I wonder if you might look over the blueprints for me, give me an idea of how I should start.

Hahahahha nice EWU 👍

 

[dentalWorks]

So here is the situation...
I am a former financial advisor. I have my degree in finance and worked for a couple of brokerage firms for a few years. A year and a half ago I decided to quit my job and go back to school to get my prereqs for dental school.
I have a 3.0 on my undergrad, which isn't that great I know. However, I am now done with my General Bio, Gen Chems, Organic Chems and Physics and have straight A's. I am still going to take Biochem, Microbio and Anat and Phys.

I have been in touch with a number schools over the last year and flown out and taken tours of several. I have been very well received so far and most of them told me that as long as I do well on the DAT, scheduled for the end of May, I have a decent chance. Schools I have toured are ASDOH, Midwestern, Louisville, UK, Ohio State, Case Western, Pittsburgh and Indiana.

I know TX is often a hot topic on hear, but I wanted to ask some advice....
If I get into, say Louisville, the out of state expenses in the ADEA book say I would be in the neighborhood of 315,000 in debt after school. I have a wife and a couple kids, so my expenses would be even more. So for sake of argument, say expenses ended up being 355,000 all in.

Payments amortized over 30 years at 7.5 to 8%, which I understand are going rates for student loans, would be around 2600 dollars a month.

Texas, in state at UT Houston, for example, would be around 180,000 + the same additional 40,000 I included on Louisville's estimate, I am at 220,000. Payments amortized over 30 years would be around 1500-1600 dollars a month, or over 15 years would be 2100 dollars a month, 500 dollars a month less, for 15 years less than what it would cost to pay off Louisville for 30.

Comparing Louisville debt vs in state TX debt I would not only be saving the initial 135,000 in debt, but in interest, the total amount that I would save, including interest would be well over 550,000 dollars over the course of the loans.

Also, having only 1500-2100 (depending on amortization schedule) vs 2600-3400, in student loan overhead, it would seem reasonable to think you could get into your own practice or buy a practice a bit easier than having the heavier payments.

I am not a TX resident, I have family in Dallas and Houston. I could sit a year out, meaning not apply this May, move to TX, work, get in-state residency and apply the following year. Or I can apply this year, keep my momentum that I have in school, take the debt on the chin and move on.

Any thoughts? I think too many people dive right into the debt without knowing what they are getting into, however, I also don't want to focus on the money too much if in the end it really doesn't matter.
Being a former finance guy, I tend to focus on the money aspect of things...I just don't want to focus too hard on it, if that makes sense...

I would love to hear from some people that moved to get in-state or any new dentists or experienced dentists know how hard the debt really is to pay off. Or any body else that has some advice.

Thanks for the input!

comparing Tx tution vs Louisville is nice... ur actually doing ur homework 👍
Problem is, I think Louisville tuition (when u include moving and living expense) will exceed 400k since that same 7-8% interest rate (at least for half of ur loans) start raking up the instant you borrow (example graduate plus loans)

Here is another problem, I have heard Tx schools are very competitive and selective, you sure you wanna bet ur chances of getting in on only those schools? There are a few schools in the nation (Buffalo comes to mind) that will let you switch ur tuition to in-state resident after 1 year. It will still be more expensive than Tx, but it also be a relatively "cheap" alternative for Out-of state.... Do ur homework and find out which schools allow this in-state tuition switch.

 

[JP9122]

To the original poster: In-state tuition sounds nice, but you have to remember that even with very very good grades, it is very hard to get into dental schools. The likelihood of a Texas resident with good stats being rejected from all 3 TX schools is decent. I'm not saying you would be rejected, but to sit out a whole year and bank on the fact that you will get in the next year is a huge risk. What if you don't get in after sitting out a year? If that does occur, you will be wishing that you had just applied to places your first year. If it was not so risky for people to move to the state where they wish to attend dental school, gain residence, then apply and be accepted, almost everyone would do it.

 

[tommyinVA]

To the original poster: In-state tuition sounds nice, but you have to remember that even with very very good grades, it is very hard to get into dental schools. The likelihood of a Texas resident with good stats being rejected from all 3 TX schools is decent. I'm not saying you would be rejected, but to sit out a whole year and bank on the fact that you will get in the next year is a huge risk. What if you don't get in after sitting out a year? If that does occur, you will be wishing that you had just applied to places your first year. If it was not so risky for people to move to the state where they wish to attend dental school, gain residence, then apply and be accepted, almost everyone would do it.

Agreed. Waiting AND moving AND expecting (hoping) to get into a TX school is a recipe for disaster. The one thing I've found is that a plan like that depends far too much on variables outside of your control. And JP is right: TX schools are super-competitive and super-insular. Their in-state tuitions are so cheap because the cost is heavily subsidized by the state. To be perfectly honest, I wouldn't be surprised if the ADCOM's take your "short-term" TX residency into consideration (these people aren't fools, after all) when you apply. IIRC, I think TMDAS asks how long you've been a TX resident, or at least how long you've lived in the state.

And where are you currently a resident? Do you not have a state school? Why is moving to TX such a greater option than simply applying to your current state school?

As for the money, I will be the gross minority and argue that the difference in cost will ultimately be nominal (calling it "inconsequential" would be a bit inaccurate). Unless you're a terrible financial advisor, I'm guessing you hope to reach a salary of roughly $150k or more as a dentist. Really, at that point, a difference of $1k in monthly student loan payments is not going to put you in subsidized housing. I think you also need to change your mindset a bit and look at your pending student debt as an investment. Gotta spend money to make money, right?

But let's go ahead and take a glance at the money. Now, I'm going to assume that your wife plans on working while you're in school. Let's bear in mind that the majority of tuition calculations factor in roughly $22-30k in "housing costs." Hell, some schools even push that up to $40k. There is NO WAY you should be spending that in housing and living, ESPECIALLY since you have a source of income (your wife) to take care of the majority of those costs. If you have a family and you plan on uprooting them and moving, I'm assuming you've also done some thinking and realize that your best option would probably be to buy wherever you end up. Assuming you are sensible and live well within your means, your monthly mortgage payment should be no higher than ~$1500 tops. That comes out to $18k/year. And for the 4 years you're in school, about $16k/year should be tax-deductible interest. So really, your housing cost now becomes about $2k/year (let's just round it up to $5k to fairly budget this). Obviously you don't pay just $2k in mortgage payments, but being a financial adviser I'm sure you should be able to make an accurate assessment of what your family's tax liability should be and adjust your wife's take-home pay accordingly. Given the fact that you're a full-time student, married with "a couple kids," your should be able to have roughly $65k in household income and still have ZERO tax liability, assuming you own and haven't paid your house off (which if you have, then there's no reason whatsoever why you should move) and don't have a couple hundred thou in interest-earning investments (which if you do, then it's time to cash in and say goodbye to that).

Either way, my point for this whole long-winded explanation is that there is NO reason why you should end up with $355k in debt over 4 years. If you're looking at Louisville, they state their OOS cost as $62k annual for tuition, fees, and instruments. That's ~$250k over 4 years. We can even round that up to $270k to factor in for the inevitable tuition hikes. If you plan on doing dental school full-time (which is obviously the only way it can be done), then your wife needs to plan on working full-time. And if you've got to take out an extra SEVENTY THOUSAND dollars over four years to cover your living expenses, then you are living beyond your means. I think you need to think a little less about how to shirk the system to sneak in TX residency and think a little more about how to adjust your monetary lifestyle. Now let me stop and say that I am not in any way judging you or trying to assume what kind of lifestyle you live, but obviously this is a time when you need to sit down as a family and seriously consider what is "necessary" in order to minimize your debt load over the next 4 years.

Bottom line: focus a little more on SCHOOL and a little less on money. Not to sound crass, but you haven't even gotten in yet. Get over that hurdle first and then worry about the money. Obviously you and your family are going to have to make some adjustments, but again, it's 4 years of living lean for the opportunity for 40 years of living large.

You want financial advice from predents? No wonder the market went south for so many investors.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Glad I'm not the only one who sees the irony in a financial adviser asking for financial advice.

 

[Petieaz]

If you read the message the way I intended you would know that I am not looking for financial advice. I am asking for advice from people who have successfully moved to a state they were looking to get in-state tuition in and got it. Or from people who have graduated and have found ways to mitigate the large amount of debt.

Sorry if I was ambiguous in what I was asking.
I appreciate those that have actually contributed to the thread, as apposed to the ones that can't help themselves from making asinine comments that do nothing to help anybody looking for information.

 

[tommyinVA]

I appreciate those that have actually contributed to the thread, as apposed to the ones that can't help themselves from making asinine comments that do nothing to help anybody looking for information.

OK then, let me pare down my answer.

Your idea of trying to move to TX to gain in-state residency for the sake of trying to save 80-100k is a bad idea. There is no guarantee you'll get in to a TX school, and your chances are significantly hindered by the fact that you have to return to school to improve your GPA. I know every ADCOM will tell you that "showing an upward trend is a good thing" and blah blah blah, but the truth is that there are a lot, A LOT, of candidates that do it right and do it well the first time through school. That's not to say that you won't get in, I'm sure you will...but if you're banking on getting into a state school, particularly a TX state school, you're setting yourself up for a lot of possible heartache.

If you're only asking for advice from people who have done it, then why are you asking at all? They'll obviously tell you "Go and move, it'll work out great." In reality, you should also be asking advice from people who have tried and failed.

Let's say you move to TX for the sake of in-state residency...does that mean you only plan on applying to 3 schools? What if you don't get in your first cycle? What if you don't get in your second cycle? What if it takes you 3 or 4 years? Then you'll have lost probably all of your potential savings due to 1) tuition cost increases that come pretty much every year at every school, and 2) the 2, 3, or 4 years on the back end of school that you COULD have been making dentist money.

Does moving and forgoing an entire year of school just for the sake of trying to gain in-state tuition improve your eligibility or desirability as a DS candidate? No. From what I see, as someone who 1) has a wife and 3 kids, 2) went back to school to get into DS, 3) banked on getting in-state, and 4) took 2 cycles to get accepted out-of-state, the risk to reward ratio for your plan is horribly out of your favor.

I would go with emory's advice: Get in as soon as you can and just accept the higher loan burden as a cost for your future. BUT, I would save the move for after you find out where you'll be.

 

[Petieaz]

Thanks tommyinVA,
That is more like it!🙂 Thanks for hitting me straight with it.