Is specializing overrated?

[jaxdds]

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I'll post the figures I got from the latest practice managament figures.

Here are some figures from the latest ADA - Dental CPA stats. All verified and true, believe it or not. All percentages are based on COLLECTIONS. Not production. You make money by collecting, which of course, goes hand in hand with producing.

General Dentists

28% - staff compensations (gross pay to staff, taxes, bonuses, includes hyg)
6% - Clinical supplies (impression PVS, burs, composites, disposables)
7.5% - Lab fees (crowns, remo, implants, ortho etc...)
6% - Rent (may be more if you own the facility, but you OWN the facility)
2% - Office supplies (paper goods, toner,toner,toner, -dig xrays love toner)
1.5% - Legal/Accounting (CPA's make the Enron go down or world go round)
1% - Contuing Ed and courses in Hawaii

This all adds up to 52% overhead AT BEST for the GP. The rest should, in reality, be owner/associates profit. Don't forget the Business TAXES, yes the business is taxed too, as well as your personal salary.

Just for kicks, here is Ortho and OMS, I have Pedo, Endo and Perio too if anyone is interested.

Ortho

23% - staff (no hyg, but ortho assistants make more than DA's)
7% - clinical supplies (wires cost a bit more)
4.5% - lab fees (are getting lower bc 'clear' retainers are made in office now)
8% - rent (more visible location bc of specialty and need to attract pts)
2% - office supplies (lots of referral info to the local GP"s)
1.5% - legal/ accounting
1% - Continuing Ed.
****some may also consider 2% referral gifts to the GP's that provide the pts to the ortho offices.

Total 47% - personally I think its lower. But that's what the data says.

OMS

18% - staff (no hyg, assistants only trained in Xray duties and post op)
9% - clinical supplies (on the rise with implant inventory)
0% - lab (small amount for certain cases w. implant and orthonagthic sx)
6% - rent
2% - office supplies
1.5% - leagal/ CPA
1% - CE

Total ~38%, hold on, I'm applying right now. There you have it. Hope that is able to shed some light on the great myths of specializing and making more money.

Dr. J

 

[Cold Front]

I have Pedo, Endo and Perio too if anyone is interested.

Sure.

I think those numbers for general are very similar to what I have heard from practicing dentists. Personally, I think a GP overhead can go as low as the average ortho overhead if he/she made bold decisions within their office.

Did you come across stats on average production for a GP in a year?

 

[TomBosley]

could you post endo stats as well?

 

[fightingspirit]

I've also met periodontists who said this. 🙄 .

you just could not help it could you? you just had to squeeze that in there somehow...

 

[jaxdds]

Sure.

I think those numbers for general are very similar to what I have heard from practicing dentists. Personally, I think a GP overhead can go as low as the average ortho overhead if he/she made bold decisions within their office.

Did you come across stats on average production for a GP in a year?

Cold Front,

You are right. GP overhead can go low, taking into account that you don't have any major expenses. Keep in mind, the figures don't count for any capital expenditures, such as purchasing a Cerec machine or adding/upgrading operatories, adding digital xrays etc... the suggested marketing is about 2-3% per year as a fixed expense in practices that need to market.

From the main courses that I've taken, a single GP with 1.5 hyg can do the follwing based on a 200 day work schedule in a year....

PROVIDED THEY ARE BUSY!!!!

15 hyg patients per day = prophy + 1/2 bitewing so....

15 X (75 + 25) ..... 15 X 100 = $1500 daily hyg. prod

$1500 x 200 work days = ~$300,000 hyg prod

a GP, a little restorative, 1.5 crowns a day and other tx: endo etc should be able to do $3000 - $4000 per day

avg. $3500 x 200 days = $700,000

now, this might look like a million dollars of produced dentistry, but 85% of dentists participate with insurance, so tone that down about 25% and your looking at about a $750,000 practice adjusted, of course. The dentist should be collecting about $600,000 on what they produce, plus a little profit from the hyg collecions. So, you see its not hard to make $200,000+++ provided you are busy and don't let your overhead and numbers get the best of you.
If you work less than you make less, an so on....

Enjoy

-Dr. J

 

[Cold Front]

The dentist should be collecting about $600,000 on what they produce, plus a little profit from the hyg collecions. So, you see its not hard to make $200,000+++ provided you are busy and don't let your overhead and numbers get the best of you.

In theory, the doctor's take home in your calculation is closer to $300K/yr.

I unexpectedly found a survey about this stuff on google search, and it looks like your $600K production number is the median for a GP nationwide.

Don't forget to post the endo and pedo production #'s. 🙂

 

[diagnodent]

Everyone please take these numbers with a grain of salt. Many of the items included in your overhead are not listed here. Only a few dentists GP achieve a overhead below 60% so do not think this is the norm.

 

[DentalBoston]

It's interesting to see how this thread has progressed (digressed?) -- the short of it is that some GPs will make more than some specialists and vice versa - but it really doesn't matter since we're all looking to make more than twice the median household income of an average US citizen (that average citizen also has the potential to live a very happy and financially secure life including retirement -refer to any of David Bach's books)

Specializing is not a ticket to happiness and just because you specialize doesn't make you any better of a person or dentist. Being a GP isn't "average" in a negative sense nor does it mean you are more skilled. There is a wide range of treatment and abilities to treat - the important thing is that the patient receives proper care. Have respect for one another after all we are all co-professionals (or soon will be). To simply stereotype ALL specialist or ALL GPs is a disservice to ourselves and our profession.

Off the soap box now....

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It's always easier to destroy than to create...
Why break down others when we can build them up?

 

[ItsGavinC]

so, i repeat, for those who did not understand me, you only choose a specialty because of the prospect of working less while making more.

1. How noble for you to tell us why we chose something.

2. You're wrong. I chose it because I dislike crown and bridge, can't stand perio, and never want to see another removable (partial or complete!) denture as long as I live.

 

[kato999]

1. How noble for you to tell us why we chose something.

2. You're wrong. I chose it because I dislike crown and bridge, can't stand perio, and never want to see another removable (partial or complete!) denture as long as I live.

You just like making little kids cry. It's cool, I am in the specialty for dentists who suck at dentistry🙂

 

[jaxdds]

I unexpectedly found a survey about this stuff on google search, and it looks like your $600K production number is the median for a GP nationwide.

Don't forget to post the endo and pedo production #'s. 🙂

Well, it looks like I'm right every once in a while!!👍

Here are the Pedo and Endo numbers

Pedo
27% staff
6% supplies
2% lab - if you do space maintenance or ortho
6% rent
same for the office supplies, legal, CPA, and CE
total= 43.5%
plus referral materials to local GPs

Endo
17% staff
7% supplies
00 lab
4% rent
same for office, legal, CPA and CE
toatal=32.5%
plus referral materials to local GPs

 

[ItsGavinC]

You just like making little kids cry. It's cool, I am in the specialty for dentists who suck at dentistry🙂

They're crying before I get to them, trust me. I just make them cry with more tears.

 

[Cold Front]

Only a few dentists GP achieve a overhead below 60% so do not think this is the norm.

All the surveys and studies I cam across consistantly said the average GP is now (2007)... producing $800K-$1million, with 60-65% overhead. I am sure more than "few" dentists produce more and have lower overheads. You can set-up your overhead whatever you want it to be, as long as you are providing good dentistry.

http://downloads.pennnet.com/web_dl/169.pdf

 

[toofshucker]

All the surveys and studies I cam across consistantly said the average GP is now (2007)... producing $800K-$1million, with 60-65% overhead. I am sure more than "few" dentists produce more and have lower overheads. You can set-up your overhead whatever you want it to be, as long as you are providing good dentistry.

http://downloads.pennnet.com/web_dl/169.pdf

....

 

[DrJeff]

You just like making little kids cry. It's cool, I am in the specialty for dentists who suck at dentistry🙂

Or as I prefer to call your specialty, it's for dentists who can't use a handpiece😉😀 I enjoy reminding my wife of this everytime she complains to me about "lowly GP's"😀

 

[DrJeff]

Well, it looks like I'm right every once in a while!!👍

Here are the Pedo and Endo numbers

Pedo
27% staff
6% supplies
2% lab - if you do space maintenance or ortho
6% rent
same for the office supplies, legal, CPA, and CE
total= 43.5%
plus referral materials to local GPs

Endo
17% staff
7% supplies
00 lab
4% rent
same for office, legal, CPA and CE
toatal=32.5%
plus referral materials to local GPs

Just remember, some specialty practices have mutliple offices which can and often impacts the overhead and supply numbers.

 

[jaxdds]

All the surveys and studies I cam across consistantly said the average GP is now (2007)... producing $800K-$1million, with 60-65% overhead. I am sure more than "few" dentists produce more and have lower overheads. You can set-up your overhead whatever you want it to be, as long as you are providing good dentistry.

/quote]


Just did the Profit Plus Workshop with the practice that I am in and the national average is $600K but most are easily around $800K according to Dr. Charles Blair. The main overhead is staff salaries. The cost of employing keeps getting higher, as well as dental education costs. In the 70's an average DDS had 50% overhead, now its easily pushing 70% in a lot of offices. One plus is that there are 6000 dds retiring a year and only 4000 entering the profession. Pretty soon no one will particiapate with poor insurance plans due to the supply and demand, in our favor, of course. Hopefully this will hold true in some capacity.

J