Is the Caribbean really THAT bad?

[Sumbody1245]

I got accepted into AUA for the February semester, with a 2.8 GPA and I'm seriously considering not going and spending the next semester studying for the MCAT, and taking the summer/fall to retake classes for D.O. school.

The thing is, this would take loads of time, assuming I only need to retake 1.5 semesters, I would apply I assume AFTER I take these classes, so this is overall an extra 1.5 years MINIMUM. Another year and I would have a masters degree, though that would be a bit more difficult. Is it really worth it?

People match into competitive specialties from the Caribbean every single year, and sure in 5-10 years there may be too many US students to compete with, but I'm graduating before that happens if I go to the Caribbean this semester in any case.

I have wasted several years after graduation, I don't feel like wasting another year, since all I care about is the compensation at the end of the tunnel. Every extra year it takes, is another year I could have spent getting a bachelor's in petroleum engineering.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Isha2018]

Do what you feel is right. I would never pass up a U.S. school, but many have succeeded in the past in the Caribbean. If not, they wouldn't be in business. You are just considering pursuing a higher risk education than many of us.

You must have liked the Caribbean school or you wouldn't have applied there, right?

I personally took the time to pursue a DIY post-bac, and it worked for me to get into U.S. DO schools.

 

[edgerock24]

If you want to take the 'risk,' then you should try to get into SGU/Ross/AUC over AUA.

 

[Sumbody1245]

If you want to take the 'risk,' then you should try to get into SGU/Ross/AUC over AUA.

Why? Might as well take another semester off and do D.O. at that point.

All international schools have the same negative stigma when getting residencies as far as I can tell. You get what you put into it, assuming there are empty spots the US MD's aren't filling.

 

[bedevilled ben]

Why? Might as well take another semester off and do D.O. at that point.

All international schools have the same negative stigma when getting residencies as far as I can tell. You get what you put into it, assuming there are empty spots the US MD's aren't filling.

Woah woah woah, no. You need to research this decision much more thoroughly to understand what you're getting into, because neither of those statements are correct. All international schools do not in any way have the same negative stigma. Check out some of the other threads on here, especially the most recent one where CaribKid linked the 2013 IMG match results. There are a handful of international programs that are head and shoulders above the others as far as match statistics go. If you're <30yo I would highly encourage you to take the extra 2 years and try to get into a USMD/DO program. It is well-worth your time to do so, and I say this as a 2nd year SGU student in his 30's. If you have exhausted every possible route to get into a US school and you still can't, then only choose one of the Big 4 (SGU, Ross, AUC, Saba). I don't know much about them, but I would also consider some other international programs such as Australia, UK, and Israel. These schools have comparable programs with significantly improved living conditions. I'm uncertain about their match statistics, but I suspect they are good options. While the Caribbean can be a good option for some people, I've seen far too many of my classmates come down here ill-informed and have to walk away with $100k in debt and a wasted year.

 

[Sumbody1245]

Woah woah woah, no. You need to research this decision much more thoroughly to understand what you're getting into, because neither of those statements are correct. All international schools do not in any way have the same negative stigma. Check out some of the other threads on here, especially the most recent one where CaribKid linked the 2013 IMG match results. There are a handful of international programs that are head and shoulders above the others as far as match statistics go. If you're <30yo I would highly encourage you to take the extra 2 years and try to get into a USMD/DO program. It is well-worth your time to do so, and I say this as a 2nd year SGU student in his 30's. If you have exhausted every possible route to get into a US school and you still can't, then only choose one of the Big 4 (SGU, Ross, AUC, Saba). I don't know much about them, but I would also consider some other international programs such as Australia, UK, and Israel. These schools have comparable programs with significantly improved living conditions. I'm uncertain about their match statistics, but I suspect they are good options. While the Caribbean can be a good option for some people, I've seen far too many of my classmates come down here ill-informed and have to walk away with $100k in debt and a wasted year.

Lol bro then you're gonna be so old when you graduate, especially when you start digging out of your debt.

From another thread, these are the placements from:
AUA http://www.auamed.org/graduate-success?order=field_specialty_value&sort=asc

and Ross http://www.rossu.edu/medical-school/residencyappointments.cfm

Note AUA has smaller classes, but they place around as mediocrely as Ross. Of course their match rate is around 10% lower than Ross, but they let in less competitive students. I Really am not sure if the gap between AUA and Ross is large enough to warrant wasting a semester studying for the MCAT to get into Ross.

 

[Skip Intro]

Note AUA has smaller classes, but they place around as mediocrely as Ross.

What does this mean? Ross placements are mediocre? I disagree.

As for the rest of your post, it's all up to you. There are some students starting at Ross in their early forties. When I was there, we had a few students in their fifties. Personally, unless you are financially independent and have a few extra hundreds of thousands of dollars laying around with nothing better to do with them, I wouldn't recommend that.

But, if you're early twenties and a "close call" for a U.S. school, I'd take the time to retry here. In the long run, that extra year (or two) of getting your application together and getting into a U.S. school is a financial fart in a windstorm downstream. And, if you still can't get in a year or two from now, you can still go Caribbean. It's not going to get that tight in this timeframe. Just make sure you go to a reputable school that has a track record of getting you into some kind of residency.

The increasing number of medical school spots here are good news for students, bad news for the Caribbean schools (especially the newer, less-established ones, of which I'd put AUA in that mix). That's the bottom line.

-Skip

 

[Sumbody1245]

What does this mean? Ross placements are mediocre? I disagree.

As for the rest of your post, it's all up to you. There are some students starting at Ross in their early forties. When I was there, we had a few students in their fifties. Personally, unless you are financially independent and have a few extra hundreds of thousands of dollars laying around with nothing better to do with them, I wouldn't recommend that.

But, if you're early twenties and a "close call" for a U.S. school, I'd take the time to retry here. In the long run, that extra year (or two) of getting your application together and getting into a U.S. school is a financial fart in a windstorm downstream. And, if you still can't get in a year or two from now, you can still go Caribbean. It's not going to get that tight in this timeframe. Just make sure you go to a reputable school that has a track record of getting you into some kind of residency.

The increasing number of medical school spots here are good news for students, bad news for the Caribbean schools (especially the newer, less-established ones, of which I'd put AUA in that mix). That's the bottom line.

-Skip

Thx for the reply. I am in my mid twenties, the thing about med school I worry about, especially if I go to the Caribbean, is that that's 7-9 years that are in the prime of my life that are just gone. I would be studying my tail off, especially if I went to a Caribbean school like AUA to stay at the top of my class, with little time for practically anything else. Every year counts at this point. I am NOT a close call to American schools I would have to spend +~2 years extra to be at even ground with 22 year old kids fresh out of college...

I have seriously considered going back and doing Petroleum Engineering, and then getting an MBA, but am not sure how wise this would be as a long term strategy. At least I would have an MBA if oil and gas tanks I guess. Doing PETE +MBA and doing med school takes a similar amount of time, with med school paying off the same amount if I get into a good specialty, with obviously better job security.

 

[bedevilled ben]

Lol bro then you're gonna be so old when you graduate, especially when you start digging out of your debt.

Holy crap, you're right. I better get back to my old career quick before I croak!

Seriously, research this decision some more. If you want to go to medical school for the money, you're probably going to be disappointed, or at least undeniably bitter for the next decade of your life. You're acting like your life is running out and you're in your 20's. It's a journey, not a destination.

I had thoughts of writing a big response addressing your concerns, but I don't think I'm going to do that. I'm pretty sure you're going to discount just about any advice you receive here, despite the fact that it's from people like me who've already made some of the mistakes that you're about to make. So you might as well just go to AUA.

 

[Sumbody1245]

Holy crap, you're right. I better get back to my old career quick before I croak!

Seriously, research this decision some more. If you want to go to medical school for the money, you're probably going to be disappointed, or at least undeniably bitter for the next decade of your life. You're acting like your life is running out and you're in your 20's. It's a journey, not a destination.

I had thoughts of writing a big response addressing your concerns, but I don't think I'm going to do that. I'm pretty sure you're going to discount just about any advice you receive here, despite the fact that it's from people like me who've already made some of the mistakes that you're about to make. So you might as well just go to AUA.

Lol. What should I do for the money then? Every profession says the same thing, don't do it for the money, well I'll get no money if I do what I like! So I want a job that pays well with good hours so I'll do what I like in my off time.

Maybe Petroleum it is... kind of scared about what will happen in 10 years though.

 

[Top Gun]

If you really want to have the best chance of pursuing a career in medicine in the US, you should seriously consider doing a post-bac, retaking the MCAT, and trying for US schools. Its not as if you're going to be losing a whole lot of time doing that. Its only one year, for crying out loud! Think how much time and money you will have wasted if you go to AUA, graduate, and can't get the residency you want because the spots have all been filled by AMGs. Or even worse, if you go to AUA, fail the Steps or do poorly in classes, and end up failing out. Once you've done all this and not succeeded in getting into a US school, then you should consider the big 4 schools in the Caribbean (SGU, Ross, AUC, Saba). They have better residency placement than AUA and graduates from those schools can be licensed to practice in all 50 states. In fact, they are the only 4 Caribbean schools whose graduates can get licensed to practice in all 50 states.

By the way, you keep talking about going back and doing petroleum engineering. Are you really that serious about wanting to become a physician? If not, then petroleum engineering might be the way to go.

 

[Sumbody1245]

If you really want to have the best chance of pursuing a career in medicine in the US, you should seriously consider doing a post-bac, retaking the MCAT, and trying for US schools. Its not as if you're going to be losing a whole lot of time doing that. Its only one year, for crying out loud! Think how much time and money you will have wasted if you go to AUA, graduate, and can't get the residency you want because the spots have all been filled by AMGs. Or even worse, if you go to AUA, fail the Steps or do poorly in classes, and end up failing out. Once you've done all this and not succeeded in getting into a US school, then you should consider the big 4 schools in the Caribbean (SGU, Ross, AUC, Saba). They have better residency placement than AUA and graduates from those schools can be licensed to practice in all 50 states. In fact, they are the only 4 Caribbean schools whose graduates can get licensed to practice in all 50 states.

By the way, you keep talking about going back and doing petroleum engineering. Are you really that serious about wanting to become a physician? If not, then petroleum engineering might be the way to go.

I'm very serious about making money with good hours so I can pursue my many interests. I don't care in the slightest what field it is. If I had to rate it, Emergency Medicine>Business Executive>Petroleum Engineer>>>>>Internal medicine/FP

 

[Top Gun]

I'm very serious about making money with good hours so I can pursue my many interests. I don't care in the slightest what field it is. If I had to rate it, Emergency Medicine>Business Executive>Petroleum Engineer>>>>>Internal medicine/FP

Well, you're going to be very disappointed if you choose to do medicine then. Thanks to declining reimbursements from insurance companies, physicians are no longer making as much as they once did. Not to mention the fact that all those loans you took out to pay for med school have to be repaid once you start practicing, and that takes a significant chunk out of your income. And it also takes many years to get to the point where you're making a lot of money. You make very little pay during the 3-5 years you are doing residency, and it takes a long time to pay loans off once you start practicing. lAnd as far as professions with longest numbers of hours worked per week go, medicine definitely tops the list. If all you care about is making money, and you really don't want to work that many hours, then you're better off getting an MBA and doing something like investment banking. Only do medicine if you actually have an interest in it.

 

[hmania]

Have you thought of nurse practitioner or physicians assistant? You pretty much are doing the same thing as a doctor... Good work hours too. And pa would take 2 years.

 

[darklabel]

I'm very serious about making money with good hours so I can pursue my many interests. I don't care in the slightest what field it is. If I had to rate it, Emergency Medicine>Business Executive>Petroleum Engineer>>>>>Internal medicine/FP

According to this document (which I would study like a hawk)
http://b83c73bcf0e7ca356c80-e8560f4...s-in-the-Match-IMG_Final_Revised.PDF-File.pdf

You will have a ~24% chance of matching EM if you're coming from Antigua (part of "All other" category on page 55 of the document) and it seems to be the hot commodity right now among US grads because of the hours and pay so expect competitiveness to either stay that way or increase in the foreseeable future.

However, FM and IM are quite possible to match into as an USIMG. But if your ranking is what you want, I would definitely go DO since EM is very doable as a DO and you still have the AOA match. Of course if you're in it for the money, the amount of debt you'll have won't exactly have you living like a king.

 

[ChrisGriffen]

Do not go to medical school. Save your time and money, and go with plan B.

 

[Sumbody1245]

Well, you're going to be very disappointed if you choose to do medicine then. Thanks to declining reimbursements from insurance companies, physicians are no longer making as much as they once did. Not to mention the fact that all those loans you took out to pay for med school have to be repaid once you start practicing, and that takes a significant chunk out of your income. And it also takes many years to get to the point where you're making a lot of money. You make very little pay during the 3-5 years you are doing residency, and it takes a long time to pay loans off once you start practicing. lAnd as far as professions with longest numbers of hours worked per week go, medicine definitely tops the list. If all you care about is making money, and you really don't want to work that many hours, then you're better off getting an MBA and doing something like investment banking. Only do medicine if you actually have an interest in it.

The thing an MBA isn't worth it unless you get into the top 10%, or even 5% of schools. And for that you need a good GPA.

So to even go that route I would need to go to masters. I have tons of schooling and debt in front of me regardless of what I do, which means at the end of the road I need a good salary.

According to this document (which I would study like a hawk)
http://b83c73bcf0e7ca356c80-e8560f4...s-in-the-Match-IMG_Final_Revised.PDF-File.pdf

You will have a ~24% chance of matching EM if you're coming from Antigua (part of "All other" category on page 55 of the document) and it seems to be the hot commodity right now among US grads because of the hours and pay so expect competitiveness to either stay that way or increase in the foreseeable future.

However, FM and IM are quite possible to match into as an USIMG. But if your ranking is what you want, I would definitely go DO since EM is very doable as a DO and you still have the AOA match. Of course if you're in it for the money, the amount of debt you'll have won't exactly have you living like a king.

The same article says I would have a 59% chance to get into Anesthesiology and 54% chance for Radiology, doesn't sound too bad. I think I would be in less debt going to the Caribbean because I wouldn't have to pay to retake undergrad classes out of pocket. Also AUA is one of the cheaper Carib schools.

 

[darklabel]

The same article says I would have a 59% chance to get into Anesthesiology and 54% chance for Radiology, doesn't sound too bad. I think I would be in less debt going to the Caribbean because I wouldn't have to pay to retake undergrad classes out of pocket. Also AUA is one of the cheaper Carib schools.

Well you did ask for EM. I believe that has something to do with waning interest from US grads. Its all cyclical and whats hot now may not be in 4 years. I just know that FM/IM will always be very possible as a USIMG.

 

[ChrisGriffen]

Make sure in the interview to tell them that you are in it for the salary. They love that. They may even give you a scholarship.

 

[Top Gun]

How about law? There are some pretty lucrative specialties in that field. And its only three additional years of schooling.

 

[edgerock24]

The fact that this OP isn't entirely sure that he even wants to work in the medical field really suggests that he'd be an individual that would not make it in the Caribbean.

 

[BestDoctorEver]

I got accepted into AUA for the February semester, with a 2.8 GPA and I'm seriously considering not going and spending the next semester studying for the MCAT, and taking the summer/fall to retake classes for D.O. school.

The thing is, this would take loads of time, assuming I only need to retake 1.5 semesters, I would apply I assume AFTER I take these classes, so this is overall an extra 1.5 years MINIMUM. Another year and I would have a masters degree, though that would be a bit more difficult. Is it really worth it?

People match into competitive specialties from the Caribbean every single year, and sure in 5-10 years there may be too many US students to compete with, but I'm graduating before that happens if I go to the Caribbean this semester in any case.

I have wasted several years after graduation, I don't feel like wasting another year, since all I care about is the compensation at the end of the tunnel. Every extra year it takes, is another year I could have spent getting a bachelor's in petroleum engineering.

My friend who is an AUA alumnus told me yesterday not to go there. He told me try to go to AUC or SGU instead. Get you c/sGPA to 3.0+ and you might be ok for AUC with a 22+ MCAT.

 

[Sumbody1245]

The fact that this OP isn't entirely sure that he even wants to work in the medical field really suggests that he'd be an individual that would not make it in the Caribbean.

I don't care what it suggests. If I'm in the Caribbean I have no option but sink or swim. Right now I have options so I'm muddling around. Because I can.

Did you know black males have a 30% chance of winding up in prison? Does that mean every black guy I meet is a criminal?

 

[Sumbody1245]

Make sure in the interview to tell them that you are in it for the salary. They love that. They may even give you a scholarship.

I'm sure you told them in your interviews that you are here to help people, even though there are plenty of other professions that help a higher volume of people with less schooling required (and they pay less).

 

[ChrisGriffen]

I'm sure you told them in your interviews that you are here to help people, even though there are plenty of other professions that help a higher volume of people with less schooling required (and they pay less).

Not quite. Good luck.

 

[Sumbody1245]

Ok took another look at my transcript, I have a 2.7 on my GPA. There is NO WAY to get into an american school, even D.O. without spending like 2 years getting another bachelor's. That's just stupid, why not bust my arse in the Caribbean, because its CHEAPER and takes less TIME. Sure you may not get any program that is currently popular with US grads but you WILL get a lucrative specialty if get a high score on the STEP.

So its back to Ross v AUA, D.O. is just not a financially viable option.

 

[hmania]

Bust your arse at ross

 

[Top Gun]

Ok took another look at my transcript, I have a 2.7 on my GPA. There is NO WAY to get into an american school, even D.O. without spending like 2 years getting another bachelor's. That's just stupid, why not bust my arse in the Caribbean, because its CHEAPER and takes less TIME. Sure you may not get any program that is currently popular with US grads but you WILL get a lucrative specialty if get a high score on the STEP.

So its back to Ross v AUA, D.O. is just not a financially viable option.

A high score on the Step is not enough to guarantee you a lucrative specialty if you come from the Caribbean. At best, it maximizes the probability that you will match. Residency programs in the more competitive specialties (generally the ones that make the most money and have the best hours) will generally take AMGs over Caribbean grads, even if the AMG has a lower Step score. Frankly, an attitude like yours suggests that you will not succeed in the Caribbean. The ones who succeed down there are committed to doing medicine. They don't want to do anything else. They will bust their butts to achieve their dream of someday becoming a physician. You, on the other hand, don't appear to have a commitment to any particular field. I suggest you give some serious thought toward your strengths and interests, and then decide what career would best accommodate them.

 

[Medstart108]

I got accepted into AUA for the February semester, with a 2.8 GPA and I'm seriously considering not going and spending the next semester studying for the MCAT, and taking the summer/fall to retake classes for D.O. school.

The thing is, this would take loads of time, assuming I only need to retake 1.5 semesters, I would apply I assume AFTER I take these classes, so this is overall an extra 1.5 years MINIMUM. Another year and I would have a masters degree, though that would be a bit more difficult. Is it really worth it?

People match into competitive specialties from the Caribbean every single year, and sure in 5-10 years there may be too many US students to compete with, but I'm graduating before that happens if I go to the Caribbean this semester in any case.

I have wasted several years after graduation, I don't feel like wasting another year, since all I care about is the compensation at the end of the tunnel. Every extra year it takes, is another year I could have spent getting a bachelor's in petroleum engineering.

You aren't the only person who has made it through the Carib who thought mostly about money. I'm sure a lot of people think that but just don't say it in public because it isn't a PC thing to say. Honestly, I would go for it if you are committed. You are old enough to know that you are responsible for your own actions, so I would go for it and work hard.

 

[darklabel]

You aren't the only person who has made it through the Carib who thought mostly about money. I'm sure a lot of people think that but just don't say it in public because it isn't a PC thing to say. Honestly, I would go for it if you are committed. You are old enough to know that you are responsible for your own actions, so I would go for it and work hard.

Problem is op wants good money and lifestyle. Most specialties (barring ones with some job market issues like pathology and rads) offer good pay, but ROAD specialties offer good pay and lifestyle (though rads and gas isn't too difficult to match into).

I would say go carrib if you're open to IM/FM and the least competitive specialties. If op adamantly doesn't want those specialties, well I hope he scores highly on the USMLE.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Sumbody1245]

Problem is op wants good money and lifestyle. Most specialties (barring ones with some job market issues like pathology and rads) offer good pay, but ROAD specialties offer good pay and lifestyle (though rads and gas isn't too difficult to match into).

I would say go carrib if you're open to IM/FM and the least competitive specialties. If op adamantly doesn't want those specialties, well I hope he scores highly on the USMLE.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

From the research I did, it seems AMG's will always be picked before USIMG's but if they are going into a specialty that isn't highly sought after by AMG's, they only have to score the same on their exams.

For instance to be a radiologist it takes around a 240 Step1 for an AMG, which is the same Step score the average USIMG had who got into radiology. But Emergency Medicine is hot with AMG's now so a USIMG had to get like a 20+ higher Step score for the same spot.

Is this a somewhat accurate description of what is happening? Also, one thing that AUA seems terribly lacking in are its clinicals, is that reason enough to retake the MCAT to try and get into a big 4 school? Thanks before hand.

 

[darklabel]

From the research I did, it seems AMG's will always be picked before USIMG's but if they are going into a specialty that isn't highly sought after by AMG's, they only have to score the same on their exams.

For instance to be a radiologist it takes around a 240 Step1 for an AMG, which is the same Step score the average USIMG had who got into radiology. But Emergency Medicine is hot with AMG's now so a USIMG had to get like a 20+ higher Step score for the same spot.

Is this a somewhat accurate description of what is happening? Also, one thing that AUA seems terribly lacking in are its clinicals, is that reason enough to retake the MCAT to try and get into a big 4 school? Thanks before hand.

From researching websites outside of biased SDN, I think so. Also have to realize that AMGs that score 240 in rads will get into programs much more desirable and lead to easier access to fellowships and research opportunities at good hospitals, thus making themselves more employable. The same can't be said for a USIMG, which with the same score, may end up in less competitive areas and/or programs and thus fewer fellowship opportunities.

And if I were you, I'd talked directly with someone from SGU about your options. They will work with you and can say "Improve your MCAT by X amount, you're in" kind of thing. Also, there is a higher percentage that make it into EM from SGU and if you target community or not very strong programs with a high step score, then you'll probably have a decent shot (once again, this is ~3-4 years from now and no one can predict where things will go or your competitiveness then).

But if I were you, I'd shoot for SGU based on that document the NRMP published. Also they accept classes multiple times a year so you won't run into the issue of wasting time since they do accept January and I hear January tends to be less competitive than for fall.

 

[KnuxNole]

If you expect a competitive specialty coming from that school, you better lock yourself in your house day and night studying till you bleed out of your eyes. Especially since you can't simply get a high score like a 240 by saying you want it...it's something that takes time and innate knowledge. It will be an insane uphill battle, which I'm sure you are aware of.

 

[bedevilled ben]

Is this a somewhat accurate description of what is happening? Also, one thing that AUA seems terribly lacking in are its clinicals, is that reason enough to retake the MCAT to try and get into a big 4 school? Thanks before hand.

As Darklabel said, nobody knows which specialities are going to be hot 4 years from now when you're looking to match. The ACA also messes with any predictions people are making, as nobody really knows how that's going to impact the medical landscape. That said, yeah, that's about right. For any popular speciality, add 20 points and that's what you need. Knowing the right people can eliminate that.

While I still think you should reconsider this decision, you probably wouldn't need to retake the MCAT to get into SGU. If you call and talk to an admin counselor and tell them you want into the AEP program, they can probably make it work for you. I believe they are still accepting students for August 2014 start.

 

[Skip Intro]

Combined neuro/psych.

Mark my words.

-Skip

 

[Sumbody1245]

Combined neuro/psych.

Mark my words.

-Skip

Though that would be an awesome job to have, lifestyle/compensation is something I really do care about so a 6 yr residency for 150k+ is appalling to me, even if I came out of the Caribbean with a non-spectacular STEP score.

So you guys think SGU is a good enough program that residency directors will look at you more favorably? It obviously is the best, and most expensive, Caribbean school, but prejudice is prejudice.

 

[Skip Intro]

There are specialties right now that simply do not have enough qualified (i.e., board-certified) physicians to fill them. Those are the ones now that people should consider training in.

I mentioned this story before, but I had a friend at Ross who ended up training in Psychiatry when I graduated in 2005. He barely passed Step 1, failed Step 2-CK the first time he took it and marginally passed the second time, and only passed Step 3 on the third try. He is currently killing it in private practice in Chicago as a Psychiatrist, and is making far more money than I am (and I'm doing very well at $400K+/yr)... if compensation is important to you.

Training in a needed specialty is what's needed. It is very difficult to get a good, timely, and useful neuro consult when you need one. That's all I'm saying.

-Skip

 

[Skip Intro]

A good read...

In its June 2010 report on non-primary care specialty shortages, AAMC’s Center for Workforce Studies ventured a dire prediction for the decade ahead: a current deficit of 33 percent in surgical specialties, and an undersupply of 33,100 surgeons and other specialists by 2015, increasing to 46,100 by 2020. The AAMC expects the primary care physician shortage to top 45,000 by 2020. The forecast from the Health Resources and Services Administration (HRSA) is even more unsettling. The government agency calls for a shortage of 62,400 in the non-primary care specialties by 2020. In addition, one third of U.S. practicing physicians are expected to retire over the next decade.

http://www.nejmcareercenter.org/article/physician-shortages-in-the-specialties-taking-a-toll/

-Skip

 

[Top Gun]

There are specialties right now that simply do not have enough qualified (i.e., board-certified) physicians to fill them. Those are the ones now that people should consider training in.

I mentioned this story before, but I had a friend at Ross who ended up training in Psychiatry when I graduated in 2005. He barely passed Step 1, failed Step 2-CK the first time he took it and marginally passed the second time, and only passed Step 3 on the third try. He is currently killing it in private practice in Chicago as a Psychiatrist, and is making far more money than I am (and I'm doing very well at $400K+/yr)... if compensation is important to you.


Training in a needed specialty is what's needed. It is very difficult to get a good, timely, and useful neuro consult when you need one. That's all I'm saying.

-Skip

How do you fail Step 3 twice? For me, that was the easiest of the Steps.

 

[laricb]

A good read...



http://www.nejmcareercenter.org/article/physician-shortages-in-the-specialties-taking-a-toll/

-Skip

mtest

 

[Skip Intro]

How do you fail Step 3 twice? For me, that was the easiest of the Steps.

A lot of general medical information that you quickly forget once you're in your specialty, I guess. Not a native English speaker. Trouble reading and comprehending long paragraphs, I guess.

You know how the old saying goes? Step 1... 2 months. Step 2... 2 weeks. Step 3... #2 pencil.

Some people just don't prepare at all for Step 3. I studied for about 2 hours total for it. Passed it on the first try. Worst of my three scores. No one cared.

-Skip

 

[BestDoctorEver]

He is currently killing it in private practice in Chicago as a Psychiatrist, and is making far more money than I am (and I'm doing very well at $400K+/yr)... if compensation is important to you.

-Skip

So your friend is making over 400k/year as a psychiatrist! Wow.... I thought psychiatrists make 180k-250k/year...

 

[Medstart108]

So your friend is making over 400k/year as a psychiatrist! Wow.... I thought psychiatrists make 180k-250k/year...

Its possible that some people work part time so that brings down the average and on top of that his friend might be working long hours

 

[Skip Intro]

So your friend is making over 400k/year as a psychiatrist! Wow.... I thought psychiatrists make 180k-250k/year...

The hospital I'm currently at is so desperate for a psychiatrist, you can pretty much write your own ticket.

Likewise, I don't know where your numbers come from. Some salary surveys I've seen indicate that the average salary for anesthesiologists is $270k. I've only been in private practice for 4 1/2 years and I'm making far more than that.

-Skip

 

[Skip Intro]

Here is the Medscape physician survey report, which is the most credible source I've found:

http://www.medscape.com/features/slideshow/compensation/2013/public

It lists the mean income for anesthesiologists at $337k, and for psychiatrists at $186k.

So, I'll admit, I haven't actually seen my buddy's paystub. So, maybe he's embellishing a bit.

Or, maybe he's working a lot of overtime, but I promise he isn't this guy (haha):

http://nypost.com/2011/10/02/kings-county-shrink-claimed-to-work-141-hours-in-one-week/

-Skip

 

[Unzbuzzled]

OP, just apply to SMP programs. You're on the lower side of normal stats-wise, but if you apply right NOW, you'll be early enough to most likely get a spot. Apply to EVMS, RFU, and Drexel. You'll be in a US MD school as early as next year (Aug of 2015) with your stats the way they are now.

 

[hallowmann]

OP, just apply to SMP programs. You're on the lower side of normal stats-wise, but if you apply right NOW, you'll be early enough to most likely get a spot. Apply to EVMS, RFU, and Drexel. You'll be in a US MD school as early as next year (Aug of 2015) with your stats the way they are now.

Can't tell if this is serious or not... US MD with a current <3.0 and only 1 year of SMP, that doesn't seem all that sound. I've known tons of SMP students who thought getting 3.8-4.0 in their SMP will make up for having <3.0 GPA, even with 29-30 MCATs. Those people paid $20-$40k for a year of grueling work so that they could end up at a DO school (or in some cases SGU), which they would have probably gotten from 1-2 semesters of a much cheaper DIY post-bac.

OP, do what you want. If you really want more options, DO is probably safer than any Carib school, especially if you want something other than FM/IM. Also, I'd look into how much debt you'd be in again. It costs a heck of a lot on some of those islands, it costs a lot to travel there, and it will cost a lot to move around on rotations, especially if you are at a school like AUA where they are more random than anyone would really like. The DO school I'm going to costs half as much as SGU and is probably a bit cheaper than Ross/AUC. I have no idea how expensive AUA is, but ever since they got CA accredited, I heard they were getting close to Ross/AUC tuition-wise.

 

[TheWeeIceMan]

OP should just do dentistry. Decent money and the lifestyle is hard to beat. However, if OP likes medicine for more than just the money, then take a few years and apply DO. Mid-20s in not old in the slightest.

 

[mpnyc]

I'll be graduating from AUC in June 2014. Thankfully I matched and tomorrow hopefully I will get my #1 university program.
Some statistics:
1. top 10 of my class
2. Step 1: 233, Step 2 CK: 242, Step 2 CS: Pass -- all first attempts

This year seem particularly competitive. I only applied to IM programs broadly with no back up since I have no interest in Family nor Psychiatry.
I received a lot of interviews, went to half of them (cost prohibitive), and ranked everywhere that I interviewed at.
Half of my interviews were from university programs and the other half were from quality community programs.

I'm sweating it right now because I will be devastated if I don't get my #1 -- but I am grateful that I will be employed in July.

I know a handful of Caribbean students that did not match (Ross, AUC, SGU). The SOAP this week was pointless for them.
There seems to be enough AMGs to fill the SOAP positions. The Caribbean students that did not match -- some I think was because
the specialty applying to was too competitive. For example, a student that I know had 250+ on both S1 & S2 and he did not match into EM, Surgery, OBGYN. The other students that I know that didn't match had average or below average Step scores and they only applied to IM/FM.
They still were not able to match into FM.

If you look at NRMPs data for 2013 -- approximately 60-70% of students from SGU, Ross, AUC matched. Overall USIMG match rate was about 52%.

There is going to be an ever increasing number of AMGs -- and many of them will HAVE to take community hospital positions. Just check the 2014 SOAP thread. There are a lot of AMGs that did not match. Last year I believe about 900 AMGs did not match. Everything is screaming "Do NOT go to the Caribbean". It's not like it used to be where there were plenty of primary care residencies available relative to graduating seniors. The gap has shrunk to the point that you have to be outstanding to even get a mediocre position. Yes there are definitely outliers that get phenomenal residencies but the majority of us have to pick up scraps leftover from AMGs.

Remember, if you're considering the Caribbean you will be entering the 2018 match and it's only going to be exponentially more difficult to match.
You will have $250,000 - $350,000 in student loans with no job -- it's no joke -- do not take this decision lightly.
As the new US allopathic & osteopathic put out more seniors in the years to come it spells doom for USIMGs/FMGs.

US DO students are matching far better than Caribbeans. A DO buddy of mine got very high quality anesthesia interviews -- Cleveland Clinic, U of Michigan, etc. The best Caribbean students can attain Northeast university programs but they will be the low tier university programs.
If they are residents of a particular state like Nebraska, Oklahoma, Kentucky (rural) they have a better chance of getting interviewed there.
As far as community programs -- the Caribbeans can definitely get a lot of them -- but it's very difficult to get on an academic university track graduating from these type of programs -- as well as fellowship placement is difficult.

From the point of view of attaining residency -- try to do everything possible to get into a US MD school -- then US DO.
If you decide to go Caribbean -- please be aware that you will have very little support during your clinical years -- not much variety in terms of where you can do rotations -- and most likely will be doing primary care in a community hospital.

Now having said that -- do I regret going to AUC. Hell no. I loved my time in St. Maarten. The island, my profs, my friends. I did all my rotations in NYC and had a blast meeting students from Einstein, Downstate, SGU, Ross, NYCOM, AT Stills, along with all the residents & attendings that taught us. I did well enough to get a lot of interviews from university programs across the country and excited for July.

 

[Skip Intro]

Overall number of spots were up this year.

The Match rate was about the same as last year.

Most Carib students will Match into primary care.

None of these facts changed between 2013 and 2014.

-Skip