Is the destination worth it still?

[Klay10]

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I'm going to taking my first steps towards a undergraduate degree aimed at medical school acceptance in two months from now, and my first baby steps to ultimately a career in medicine.... possibly. I want to know from those who have it best, MD's in America, if the prize at the end is worth it. I do not care about debt, lack of free time, salary, or being in school until I'm in my thirties to make it all work. I want to know if the work you do makes you feel good at the end of a shift, if you feel like you are accomplishing and contributing to the best of your abilities, if all those thousands of man hours doing rounds and studying and fighting tooth and nail to be where you are were worth it. I don't care about pay as long as I can eat and sleep off of it, I've worked plenty of jobs where the pay would make me homeless in the long run but I fell in love with the work. The sense of purpose, the coworkers, and the patients/clients/customers at times made it worth it all. I don't care about the years sacrificed; I've met many many many 30+ year olds in all the places I've worked who are still struggling to piece their lives together and gain any satisfaction from it, all the while I'm thinking they could have climbed their way through a grueling but eventually rewarding residency instead of bouncing from workplace to workplace at dead end jobs. All I care about is knowing from those who have worked their way through is if the work they do gives them strength, importance, and purpose.


(Anticipated apology: Sorry if this is the wrong place in SDN to be posting this, I am a long time lurker who just started making threads when I cannot find satisfactory answers from the search bar and google.)

 

[PL198]

I'm going to taking my first steps towards a undergraduate degree aimed at medical school acceptance in two months from now, and my first baby steps to ultimately a career in medicine.... possibly. I want to know from those who have it best, MD's in America, if the prize at the end is worth it. I do not care about debt, lack of free time, salary, or being in school until I'm in my thirties to make it all work. I want to know if the work you do makes you feel good at the end of a shift, if you feel like you are accomplishing and contributing to the best of your abilities, if all those thousands of man hours doing rounds and studying and fighting tooth and nail to be where you are were worth it. I don't care about pay as long as I can eat and sleep off of it, I've worked plenty of jobs where the pay would make me homeless in the long run but I fell in love with the work. The sense of purpose, the coworkers, and the patients/clients/customers at times made it worth it all. I don't care about the years sacrificed; I've met many many many 30+ year olds in all the places I've worked who are still struggling to piece their lives together and gain any satisfaction from it, all the while I'm thinking they could have climbed their way through a grueling but eventually rewarding residency instead of bouncing from workplace to workplace at dead end jobs. All I care about is knowing from those who have worked their way through is if the work they do gives them strength, importance, and purpose.


(Anticipated apology: Sorry if this is the wrong place in SDN to be posting this, I am a long time lurker who just started making threads when I cannot find satisfactory answers from the search bar and google.)

lol so you basically don't care about all the real things that drive job satisfaction and instead want to rely on touchy-feely 20 yr old concepts.

 

[Mansamusa]

You can find a sense of purpose in really any job in the world depending on your perspective.

The key is just finding something that gives you the sense of purpose you desire while also giving you a decent life. No one can tell you what gives you a sense of purpose

 

[Klay10]

-

 

[Klay10]

lol so you basically don't care about all the real things that drive job satisfaction and instead want to rely on touchy-feely 20 yr old concepts.

I thought position, sense of self-determination and purpose, salary, and workplace environment were all the keys for job satisfaction. I know all about stagnant and falling salaries but I just didn't want this thread to be about how people feel they are compensated but instead how their thoughts and feelings relate directly to their work and lifestyle following residency.

 

[cbrons]

I'm going to taking my first steps towards a undergraduate degree aimed at medical school acceptance in two months from now, and my first baby steps to ultimately a career in medicine.... possibly. I want to know from those who have it best, MD's in America, if the prize at the end is worth it. I do not care about debt, lack of free time, salary, or being in school until I'm in my thirties to make it all work. I want to know if the work you do makes you feel good at the end of a shift, if you feel like you are accomplishing and contributing to the best of your abilities, if all those thousands of man hours doing rounds and studying and fighting tooth and nail to be where you are were worth it. I don't care about pay as long as I can eat and sleep off of it, I've worked plenty of jobs where the pay would make me homeless in the long run but I fell in love with the work. The sense of purpose, the coworkers, and the patients/clients/customers at times made it worth it all. I don't care about the years sacrificed; I've met many many many 30+ year olds in all the places I've worked who are still struggling to piece their lives together and gain any satisfaction from it, all the while I'm thinking they could have climbed their way through a grueling but eventually rewarding residency instead of bouncing from workplace to workplace at dead end jobs. All I care about is knowing from those who have worked their way through is if the work they do gives them strength, importance, and purpose.


(Anticipated apology: Sorry if this is the wrong place in SDN to be posting this, I am a long time lurker who just started making threads when I cannot find satisfactory answers from the search bar and google.)

This is a thread for the preallo forums.

Sent from my SM-N910P using SDN mobile

 

[Goro]

My clinical colleagues all love being doctors.

No one here can tell you what you want to be when you grow up. In fact, if you have to ask the question, then the answer, at least for right now, at least for you, is a resounding no. This could be because you have decided subconsciously that medicine isn't worth it for yourself, or it could be because you haven't done enough due diligence to figure out the answer. If it's the latter, I suggest that you spend some time in a healthcare setting shadowing/volunteering/working so that you can gain some practical experience with the system and see what it's like working in it.

This will help you decide whether medicine is worth it for YOU.

I'm going to taking my first steps towards a undergraduate degree aimed at medical school acceptance in two months from now, and my first baby steps to ultimately a career in medicine.... possibly. I want to know from those who have it best, MD's in America, if the prize at the end is worth it. I do not care about debt, lack of free time, salary, or being in school until I'm in my thirties to make it all work. I want to know if the work you do makes you feel good at the end of a shift, if you feel like you are accomplishing and contributing to the best of your abilities, if all those thousands of man hours doing rounds and studying and fighting tooth and nail to be where you are were worth it. I don't care about pay as long as I can eat and sleep off of it, I've worked plenty of jobs where the pay would make me homeless in the long run but I fell in love with the work. The sense of purpose, the coworkers, and the patients/clients/customers at times made it worth it all. I don't care about the years sacrificed; I've met many many many 30+ year olds in all the places I've worked who are still struggling to piece their lives together and gain any satisfaction from it, all the while I'm thinking they could have climbed their way through a grueling but eventually rewarding residency instead of bouncing from workplace to workplace at dead end jobs. All I care about is knowing from those who have worked their way through is if the work they do gives them strength, importance, and purpose.


(Anticipated apology: Sorry if this is the wrong place in SDN to be posting this, I am a long time lurker who just started making threads when I cannot find satisfactory answers from the search bar and google.)

 

[redferrari]

Anyone else think "destination" was referring to being on a Caribbean island? Oh SDN, how you've manipulated my brain.

 

[Sardinia]

@Klay10 Have fun majoring in mechanical engineering/computer science as a "backup degree" while taking organic chemistry. Icarus had to burn his wings before he realized where he was in relation to the sun.

 

[Azete]

I always believed, but am now starting to disagree with, the idea that "if you can see yourself doing anything else, then do that." Looking at this career choice completely objectively and comparing it laterally to other professional careers, physicians have it pretty damn good. Unparalleled job security, high earning potential, flexibility (you really can work as little hours as you want, in the right specialty/circumstance), (almost) complete autonomy if you choose private practice, easy to secure financing for business ventures (assuming satisfactory credit), and a 95% chance of becoming a paid physician if you make it to med school. The training sucks, but having been through law school already I am actually finding med school to be easier (or at least more suited to my capabilities).

The touchy-feely stuff fades for a lot of people early on, but I've noticed the happiest doctors are the ones that 1) genuinely enjoy interacting with and helping other humans, and 2) have a good life balance with hobbies outside of medicine. The unhappiest doctors I've seen are the ones that are chronically sleep deprived and focus every ounce of energy on gunning for prestige/money.

To your original question about it being worth it? I don't know, as I'm not there yet. But, even the worst case scenario where you hate every aspect of your work life, you can still earn a good living with reasonable hours and derive as little satisfaction from your job as just about every other person/career in America.

 

[Sardinia]

@Azete Re: Law School

Was it the actual curriculum or supposedly the arbitrary grading standards, competition for top ranking, or prospectively dismal job outlook that made you lose sleep at night.

 

[Azete]

@Azete Re: Law School

Was it the actual curriculum or supposedly the arbitrary grading standards, competition for top ranking, or prospectively dismal job outlook that made you lose sleep at night.

All of the above were stressful for sure, but med school has similar animals just disguised a bit differently. The big difference came down to the material; the endless reading about seemingly nothing followed by hundreds of pages of essays just was not for me, and actually took me significantly more hours per week than med school for similar performance.

 

[Sardinia]

All of the above were stressful for sure, but med school has similar animals just disguised a bit differently. The big difference came down to the material; the endless reading about seemingly nothing followed by hundreds of pages of essays just was not for me, and actually took me significantly more hours per week than med school for similar performance.

I have several close contacts who confided in me that they felt it was a combination of English Lit / Cryptography / Speed Reading on steroids.

 

[Klay10]

@Klay10 Have fun majoring in mechanical engineering/computer science as a "backup degree" while taking organic chemistry. Icarus had to burn his wings before he realized where he was in relation to the sun.

I know plenty of people who have done this. Are you saying its impossible to do, or just incredibly difficult/requires smarts that you think might be above me? Do you have experience taking pre reqs while studying for another major?

 

[avgn]

I know plenty of people who have done this. Are you saying its impossible to do, or just incredibly difficult/requires smarts that you think might be above me? Do you have experience taking pre reqs while studying for another major?

The majority of the population does not have the intellectual power to do it. However, the majority of people who attempt to do so always believe they are the exception. The onus is on you to prevent crashing and burning.

 

[avgn]

All of the above were stressful for sure, but med school has similar animals just disguised a bit differently. The big difference came down to the material; the endless reading about seemingly nothing followed by hundreds of pages of essays just was not for me, and actually took me significantly more hours per week than med school for similar performance.

Where did you go that required writing essays regularly? Or do you mean the finals and/or LRW?

 

[Sardinia]

I know plenty of people who have done this. Are you saying its impossible to do, or just incredibly difficult/requires smarts that you think might be above me? Do you have experience taking pre reqs while studying for another major?

I took two computer science courses in college which were intro to comp sci and data structures. However, I don't understand how that helps you considering the fact that every school abides by a different metric of grading and every professor has a different method of teaching every class. Every student has an affinity for different subjects therefore knowing other people who have decided to do it shouldn't be a guideline for you to decide whether you should do it. I never stated it was impossible to do, I merely made a reference that you are Icarus because you have yet to take a course in college yet you're already undermining the rigorousness of your school and also the students who you are competing against. While you develop a separate skill set that is more "career viable", the top students from other schools will be consolidating their healthcare experiences and knowledge of basic life science into a cohesive package.

 

[Azete]

Where did you go that required writing essays regularly? Or do you mean the finals and/or LRW?

Our curriculum was very writing intensive in almost every class. I've heard others are less so, but we were easily churning out 40+ pages a week as part of their "active learning" process, at least for the first 1.5 years.

 

[Sardinia]

@Klay10 You're just fake man. You write in this thread that you don't care about pay, then you go into another thread noting the median starting salaries for mechanical engineering and computer science. I can't make an assessment whether you're "above" the rigorousness of the program, but I can gauge that you already have an assessment of yourself that is not below your "30 year old coworkers stuck in dead end jobs".

 

[Avicenna]

lol so you basically don't care about all the real things that drive job satisfaction and instead want to rely on touchy-feely 20 yr old concepts.

You can never win on sdn, can you?

 

[DingoPingo]

You might find some answers here:

https://www.quora.com/Why-would-someone-choose-to-become-a-medical-doctor

 

[confidentandgood]

I had no idea I wanted to be a doctor when I started college.

Have you taken advantage of volunteering and shadowing opportunities? Give yourself ample time to experience the field. I saw your other post and it seems like there are other careers that peak your interest. Don't just jump into a decision like this.

 

[Lost In Transcription]

@Klay10 Have fun majoring in mechanical engineering/computer science as a "backup degree" while taking organic chemistry. Icarus had to burn his wings before he realized where he was in relation to the sun.

Uhhh lots of people do mechE or other eng degrees for medical school.

I think it is one of the best degrees to train you to think on your feet and practically! And many degrees require ochem...like ChemE, BioE, etc.

 

[Lost In Transcription]

The majority of the population does not have the intellectual power to do it. However, the majority of people who attempt to do so always believe they are the exception. The onus is on you to prevent crashing and burning.

Wat.

You don't need to be a genius to get an UNDERGRAD in Eng/CompSci. 🙄

 

[gyngyn]

There is no destination. There is only the journey.

 

[Lost In Transcription]

There is no destination. There is only the journey.

👍

 

[Sardinia]

Uhhh lots of people do mechE or other eng degrees for medical school. I think it is one of the best degrees to train you to think on your feet and practically! And many degrees require ochem...like ChemE, BioE, etc.

You captured my point beautifully.

 

[avgn]

Our curriculum was very writing intensive in almost every class. I've heard others are less so, but we were easily churning out 40+ pages a week as part of their "active learning" process, at least for the first 1.5 years.

Mind PMing me the school? This is almost unheard of nearly anywhere else, though I'm only really familiar with the T6 tbh

 

[avgn]

Wat.

You don't need to be a genius to get an UNDERGRAD in Eng/CompSci. 🙄

I meant to do it in conjunction with premed, and to do well in both, which is OP's plan. Most people are not cut out for such an academic plan, but they often think they are before they get there.

 

[Klay10]

I took two computer science courses in college which were intro to comp sci and data structures. However, I don't understand how that helps you considering the fact that every school abides by a different metric of grading and every professor has a different method of teaching every class. Every student has an affinity for different subjects therefore knowing other people who have decided to do it shouldn't be a guideline for you to decide whether you should do it. I never stated it was impossible to do, I merely made a reference that you are Icarus because you have yet to take a course in college yet you're already undermining the rigorousness of your school and also the students who you are competing against. While you develop a separate skill set that is more "career viable", the top students from other schools will be consolidating their healthcare experiences and knowledge of basic life science into a cohesive package.

So are you saying I would be a steep disadvantage to most traditional bio/chem students and that I would be better off without a "Backup degree?" Should I just figure out now if I want to be a straight arrow towards medical school or not? I've done a whole lot of shadowing since sophomore year but its been with gynecologists, oncologists, and gas people, I do not feel I had an accurate depiction of lifestyle or happiness since all the people I shadowed seemed to have fallen into a perfect little niche in a medium sized town that had ample opportunity. I'm not sure I would be as lucky in my career so I just wanted to know how people from different part of the countries felt.

@Klay10 You're just fake man. You write in this thread that you don't care about pay, then you go into another thread noting the median starting salaries for mechanical engineering and computer science. I can't make an assessment whether you're "above" the rigorousness of the program, but I can gauge that you already have an assessment of yourself that is not below your "30 year old coworkers stuck in dead end jobs".

I noted the median salaries for mechanical and cs because they are roughly identical throughout their career, thus making it a point I did not want discussed in comparison to one another when referring to which would be better to major in while preparing for medical school. The 30 year coworkers comment I made does not apply to my buddies in engineering school, business school, medical school, and pharmacy school. These were people I came in contact with when working manual labor with terrible pay, these are not people with any sort of target in life. I was just trying to make the point that I know people who seem like they are suddenly 30 with still the aspirations and mindset of a twenty year old but no plan, making the point that I'm fine if I spend a decade in school as long as I come out on the other end better for it.

 

[Klay10]

I had no idea I wanted to be a doctor when I started college.

Have you taken advantage of volunteering and shadowing opportunities? Give yourself ample time to experience the field. I saw your other post and it seems like there are other careers that peak your interest. Don't just jump into a decision like this.

I'm trying not to jump. I've been shadowing/volunteering/working for about two/three years now. I've talked to every doctor and engineer I've come across trying to gauge my decision. There are engineers who regret never taking that step to go to med school and are 50 now and wish they saw patients every morning instead of excel spreadsheets, then there are doctors who wish their work weeks were shorter and easier on the body and make the point they still do the "excel spreadsheet" aspect of the job when they go after insurance companies for compensation. Grass is always greener, makes the decision tougher on me. So I turned to reddit/sdn/quora for other outlooks.

So you say you didn't know you wanted to be a doctor when you started college. When did you make the decision to be pre dental while an undergraduate? Do you still feel like you will be accepted to where you want to go even after putting off the decision a little bit?

 

[confidentandgood]

When did you make the decision to be pre dental while an undergraduate? Do you still feel like you will be accepted to where you want to go even after putting off the decision a little bit?

I was originally going for pre-med, but after some shadowing and clinical volunteering, I realized that I preferred dentistry for many reasons. I had enough time to complete my pre-requisites and I'm a competitive applicant aside from my DAT score (as I haven't taken it yet). I'm not concerned about the application cycle, but more so what I'm planning to do with my gap year(s).

 

[Sardinia]

@Klay10 It's illogical to worry about simultaneously developing two potentially separate skill sets when you don't know whether you have the propensity to adequately develop one. It's one thing to be concerned about the matriculant sGPA for MD schools being a 3.8, it's another to try to balance a comp sci/mechanical engineering schedule along with your pre-med courses. Also the fact that your explanation of the physicians you shadowed more or less fit a "perfect little niche" makes me believe that unfortunately you weren't able to scratch the surface with them while you were/are shadowing with them presently.

 

[Meeehai]

I do not care about debt, lack of free time, salary, or being in school until I'm in my thirties to make it all work.

You should.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

@Klay10 Have fun majoring in mechanical engineering/computer science as a "backup degree" while taking organic chemistry. Icarus had to burn his wings before he realized where he was in relation to the sun.

Aesop apparently wasn't familiar with the relationship between temperature and pressure.

 

[Law2Doc]

For the right person it's a great job. It is not for everybody.

In terms of "sense of purpose", I would suggest that if you put your career expectations up too high on a pedestal you increase the chance that it falls harshly back to reality.

 

[Klay10]

You should.

For the right person it's a great job. It is not for everybody.

In terms of "sense of purpose", I would suggest that if you put your career expectations up too high on a pedestal you increase the chance that it falls harshly back to reality.

My apologies. My post makes it seem like I'm trying to romanticize the career. I have to promise I am not nearly as naive as my basic internet posting might make me seem. I'm aware of the incredible debt, long hours, broken healthcare system, malicious and time-consuming insurance apparatus, irritable patients that won't follow the advice of a doctor and think they know better because of webmd, and stagnant salaries. I was wanting to get some perspective from the doom and gloom doctors and also from those who are sunshine physicians as well as those who have just decently done okay for themselves. Many of my relatives are doctors and one is a recent graduate, I know their lifestyles and their perspectives on the whole medicine game. I am not expecting to achieve Nirvana with a career in medicine, but I am still looking for some people to talk to to give me that last push down the track of medicine. I've only run into a handful of doctors that have told me to turn right back around and run away, but again I feel like the sample of doctors I'm shadowing are skewed towards having everything seem great and this is not representative of healthcare as a whole. Hence why I came to sdn for a national "averaged" perspective. And I was also looking for people to tell me why and how it works for them to see if I share the same outlooks and characteristics.

 

[Setto]

Our curriculum was very writing intensive in almost every class. I've heard others are less so, but we were easily churning out 40+ pages a week as part of their "active learning" process, at least for the first 1.5 years.

Just seconding that this is super strange. The only writing I did in 1L is for LRW.

 

[ace_inhibitor111]

You can never win on sdn, can you?

So money, job security, and prestige are shallow reasons to go into medicine. And "strength, importance and purpose" are touchy-feely 20-year old concepts. Why should a person go into medicine then?

 

[Law2Doc]

So money, job security, and prestige are shallow reasons to go into medicine. And "strength, importance and purpose" are touchy-feely 20-year old concepts. Why should a person go into medicine then?

Simple -if you think you'll enjoy the job function. The goal is to find a job you'll enjoy. You have many choices in life so pick something that makes work exciting and not a chore. That's why medicine is really not for everyone. It's a hard, stressful long houred job. So you need to actually like it or you are better off choosing something else. The reasons you listed above are superficial and you'll hate your life if there's not an underlying enjoyment of the job function. Take it from a career changer - liking the job matters a lot more than this other stuff.