Is the difference between a 3.4 and a 3.6 GPA really that great?

[Uisa]

Hey guys, I've been lurking around the forums for a little while now and I came to realize that to majority of students who have about a 3.4 and 30 or so on the MCAT, they are either told to A) Go apply DO, B) take a year off and go do post bac or RARELY told to C) go for it.

However, a person with a 3.6 with get a heavy emphasis on the C) option. Why is that? is 0.2 difference of a GPA THAT big? It makes it seem as if 3.4 is a D- while a 3.6 is an A?

In my personal experience, I met couple students who got into mid-tier schools with a 3.45 and 30 on the MCAT, and it doesn't seem like they are RARE cases either.

So my question is, perhaps more for the seasoned veterans, do you think there is a night and day difference between a 3.4 and 3.6 gpa? Granted the mcat score is competitive and all other ECs follow.

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[bannie22]

Hey guys, I've been lurking around the forums for a little while now and I came to realize that to majority of students who have about a 3.4 and 30 or so on the MCAT, they are either told to A) Go apply DO, B) take a year off and go do post bac or RARELY told to C) go for it.

However, a person with a 3.6 with get a heavy emphasis on the C) option. Why is that? is 0.2 difference of a GPA THAT big? It makes it seem as if 3.4 is a D- while a 3.6 is an A?

In my personal experience, I met couple students who got into mid-tier schools with a 3.45 and 30 on the MCAT, and it doesn't seem like they are RARE cases either.

So my question is, perhaps more for the seasoned veterans, do you think there is a night and day difference between a 3.4 and 3.6 gpa? Granted the mcat score is competitive and all other ECs follow.

YES. all thigns being equal. 3.6 >>>>> 3.4, but once again this is all up to the adcom at a particular school.

 

[Contrarian]

not a night and day difference, but with a 3.6 you are probably average at the "mid-tier" schools (definitely below at the "top-tier") and with a 3.4 you are below average across the board. I think it's more than just a numerical issue though...you have to look at the quality of the 3.4 vs. 3.6--what classes dragged the gpa, was it just one bad semester, what is the trend, etc.

 

[WashMe]

hmm... well 3.6-3.4= 0.2
do you think there is a big difference b/w a 3.8 and a 4.0?
how about a 3.7 and a 3.9?
3.6 and 3.8?

The proportional difference obviously increases as the GPAs being compared become smaller, but I don't know if there's a huge difference there...

I mean, a 3.4 is technically above a B+ (3.33) but below an A- (3.67) on average...
A 3.6 is also above a B+ but below an A- on average.

I wouldn't lose sleep over it, you can't change the past anyway. You can get into medical school with those stats if you can sell yourself on something other than numbers.

 

[apumic]

Plainly put, 3.5s are a dime a dozen and 3.4s are a penny a proper dozen. At least the 3.6-3.8 is a bit less common. 3.4 is also mostly Bs with a few As thrown in, whereas 3.6-3.7 is primarily As. Bs look bad (relatively) for med school. Sure, you can get in w/ a 3.4 just as you can get in w/ a 28, but you need to make up for your deficit with a great something else (or several "somethings else"). At the end of the day, though, it's where you lie in the distribution. A 3.4 is below average for an applicant; whereas, 3.6 is close to the average for an actual matriculant (3.65). I generally use a 3.6/30 as a good rule of thumb for someone who has pretty good odds, assuming everything else is in order and the person applies broadly. Much below that, your odds decline rapidly. Nevertheless, I agree an exact line cannot be drawn and there are far too many factors in play even if we knew all the details about an individual applicant.

 

[muhali3]

Upward trends and sGPA also make a big diff. I'll probably have between a 3.4-3.5 by the time I graduate, but this is solely due to a really bad freshman year, since then I've had straight A's in all my classes. 3.4 is usually around the bottom tenth percentile at most schools, while 3.6 is closer to 50th percentile. Best thing to do is to balance it out with a great MCAT.

 

[PranBobbyJohnny]

Hey guys, I've been lurking around the forums for a little while now and I came to realize that to majority of students who have about a 3.4 and 30 or so on the MCAT, they are either told to A) Go apply DO, B) take a year off and go do post bac or RARELY told to C) go for it.

However, a person with a 3.6 with get a heavy emphasis on the C) option. Why is that? is 0.2 difference of a GPA THAT big? It makes it seem as if 3.4 is a D- while a 3.6 is an A?

In my personal experience, I met couple students who got into mid-tier schools with a 3.45 and 30 on the MCAT, and it doesn't seem like they are RARE cases either.

So my question is, perhaps more for the seasoned veterans, do you think there is a night and day difference between a 3.4 and 3.6 gpa? Granted the mcat score is competitive and all other ECs follow.

Yes. 3.6 vs 3.4 is a bigger difference than a 40 mcat vs a 35 mcat.

 

[redsquareblack]

Depends upon the number of credits, obviously.

 

[premedchelli]

Plainly put, 3.5s are a dime a dozen and 3.4s are a penny a proper dozen. At least the 3.6-3.8 is a bit less common. 3.4 is also mostly Bs with a few As thrown in, whereas 3.6-3.7 is primarily As. Bs look bad (relatively) for med school. Sure, you can get in w/ a 3.4 just as you can get in w/ a 28, but you need to make up for your deficit with a great something else (or several "somethings else"). At the end of the day, though, it's where you lie in the distribution. A 3.4 is below average for an applicant; whereas, 3.6 is close to the average for an actual matriculant (3.65). I generally use a 3.6/30 as a good rule of thumb for someone who has pretty good odds, assuming everything else is in order and the person applies broadly. Much below that, your odds decline rapidly. Nevertheless, I agree an exact line cannot be drawn and there are far too many factors in play even if we knew all the details about an individual applicant.

Keep in mind timelines play a HUGE role in this too. I don't think you can apply late with a 3.4 and expect to hear back from medical schools with very good news. I have a 3.5 @ a top tier right now, and around the same BCPM with a 30 or so mcat. I was told that I didn't really NEED a postbac but it would be good if I did have one. I applied anyway but sort of late (secondaries sent early october) and I haven't heard much at all.

My guess: My app is good enough to get me in somewhere, but its just not standing out right now since most med school classes have already accepted a lot of people and the later you are the harder it is to stand out amongst the huge crowd with average stats.

My suggestion to you: Apply EARLY and apply to a lot of schools and you'll definitely get in. Nix one of these and your chances are slim.

 

[weilanna]

Chances are, a student with a 3.4 is almost as good of a student as someone with a 3.6, but med schools have their pick here. There are enough applicants with >3.6, good MCAT scores, and good extracurriculars to fill all the med schools. Why should adcoms accept someone with a 3.4, unless that person has something really special to offer?

 

[red10]

between semesters? No

over the course of 4 years: yea

 

[Uisa]

Keep in mind timelines play a HUGE role in this too. I don't think you can apply late with a 3.4 and expect to hear back from medical schools with very good news. I have a 3.5 @ a top tier right now, and around the same BCPM with a 30 or so mcat. I was told that I didn't really NEED a postbac but it would be good if I did have one. I applied anyway but sort of late (secondaries sent early october) and I haven't heard much at all.

My guess: My app is good enough to get me in somewhere, but its just not standing out right now since most med school classes have already accepted a lot of people and the later you are the harder it is to stand out amongst the huge crowd with average stats.

My suggestion to you: Apply EARLY and apply to a lot of schools and you'll definitely get in. Nix one of these and your chances are slim.

Then one more question, If I'm taking the MCAT on May 27th and getting my scores back on June 29th, then is this date a little late? Granted, I would have submitted everything by the 29th because I'll most likely have my app ready to go.

 

[bannie22]

every extra day u take makes the overall lateness greater.

 

[flip26]

Then one more question, If I'm taking the MCAT on May 27th and getting my scores back on June 29th, then is this date a little late? Granted, I would have submitted everything by the 29th because I'll most likely have my app ready to go.

Not a problem, but submit your primary as early as possible in June so it can get processed and then all they wait on is your MCAT...

 

[swamprat]

Yeah AMCAS opens to work on about a month before you can actually submit it. Some people last June submitted on day 1 with all their transcripts in and got verified that day even. I didn't submit till the 3rd or 4th week and it took a good 4-5 weeks for verification (although that is partly due to a lost transcript in the mail which I had to resend).

 

[JonBonesJones]

Then one more question, If I'm taking the MCAT on May 27th and getting my scores back on June 29th, then is this date a little late? Granted, I would have submitted everything by the 29th because I'll most likely have my app ready to go.

My adviser told me that anything past the 2nd week in June is not considered early. She cited data that ~3% of the applicant pool have their materials in by the 2nd week, whereas ~25% have submitted their primaries by the end of June/1st week in July. I wouldn't consider you late, just not early.

Yeah, a 3.4 is a good margin lower than a 3.6. If you look in the MSAR book, there is a graph showing GPA on the X-axis, and acceptance percentage on the Y-axis. This curve is S shaped, with the steepest increase between ~3.3-->~3.7. The best someone can do to prove their abilities is to have solid grades in recent coursework, and score high on the MCAT. If these aren't attainable, then DO is a more realistic option.

 

[bannie22]

one of my friends told me, why on earth would they accept anyone with a 3.4???

and if u think about it, how much would u trust someone who has always been in the middle of their class with medication that could kill if wrongly administered?

I believe its only in the US that u have a chance with a 3.4! work hard and bring it up!

 

[vin5cent0]

There are so many outlying factors involved in getting accepted. People need to stop looking at GPAs and MCAT scores as determining factors. One that will always stick out in my head is the guy w/ a 3.5 GPA accepted to Mayo Medical School. According to some in this thread, that guy is a dime a dozen and less qualified than most, yet Mayo, one of the tops, thought he was good enough to attend. If you have a weak GPA, make sure other aspects of the application are strong and you're golden.

 

[redsquareblack]

one of my friends told me, why on earth would they accept anyone with a 3.4???

and if u think about it, how much would u trust someone who has always been in the middle of their class with medication that could kill if wrongly administered?

I believe its only in the US that u have a chance with a 3.4! work hard and bring it up!

Uh... no. Not at all.

I would trust someone that graduated from medical school (more or less). I couldn't care less what the hell their undergraduate GPA was.

 

[apumic]

There are so many outlying factors involved in getting accepted. People need to stop looking at GPAs and MCAT scores as determining factors. One that will always stick out in my head is the guy w/ a 3.5 GPA accepted to Mayo Medical School. According to some in this thread, that guy is a dime a dozen and less qualified than most, yet Mayo, one of the tops, thought he was good enough to attend. If you have a weak GPA, make sure other aspects of the application are strong and you're golden.

Once again, his GPA is a dime a dozen. We're not talking about overall applications here. Everyone knew already what you said (no offense). You've already stated the obvious -- he got in due to other things. Mayo wasn't impressed by his GPA -- they accepted him in spite of his GPA. It's one of many factors but it is an important one, nonetheless. He probably also had an insane MCAT score and many, many other awesome qualities and/or mitigating factors and/or an upward trend, etc.

 

[ilikekiwis]

one of my friends told me, why on earth would they accept anyone with a 3.4???

and if u think about it, how much would u trust someone who has always been in the middle of their class with medication that could kill if wrongly administered?

I believe its only in the US that u have a chance with a 3.4! work hard and bring it up!

wtf. hey, is it lonely up there on your pedestal? and wat is it that you have against the US so much? you posted about how much harder it is to get in as an international and you rag on the US healthcare system (which it deserves), but you do so in such a condescending manner to the nation. and then there's this garbage post about "only in the US do u have a chance with a 3.4". if you think so poorly about the US, dont apply to schools here. i hope youre not one of my future classmates

there's many factors that may account for a 'low' gpa. upward trends matter greatly, family issues, personal financial issues, etc

a 3.4 isn't too indicative of a person's ability


OP, don't worry. I had around a 3.4 and received an acceptance last month as well as multiple interviews, including to those at top schools. just be sure to rock the mcat and show the adcoms that you can handle the load. don't listen to rubbish like i've quoted

 

[bannie22]

wtf. hey, is it lonely up there on your pedestal? and wat is it that you have against the US so much? you posted about how much harder it is to get in as an international and you rag on the US healthcare system (which it deserves), but you do so in such a condescending manner to the nation. and then there's this garbage post about "only in the US do u have a chance with a 3.4". if you think so poorly about the US, dont apply to schools here. i hope youre not one of my future classmates

there's many factors that may account for a 'low' gpa. upward trends matter greatly, family issues, personal financial issues, etc

a 3.4 isn't too indicative of a person's ability


OP, don't worry. I had around a 3.4 and received an acceptance last month as well as multiple interviews, including to those at top schools. just be sure to rock the mcat and show the adcoms that you can handle the load. don't listen to rubbish like i've quoted

sigh. so touchy feely as usual. i never ever posted about how much harder it is for an international to get in until the people i saw was commenting that it was impossible to get in, then i posted and said nothing is impossible.

the us health care system is in a big mess, and if you do not see the mess it is in, then you need better glasses! even the govt admits it. so thank you very much.

and my point of only in the us can u apply with a 3.4. if u view it as a negative then go ahead and do so. because all i was doing is stating a point. i do not see what is wrong with stating a point. if u cannot handle the truth then go elsewhere. i am sure perhaps some other countries u can also apply with 3.4, but to my knowledge only the US. i do not see why you have to be so terribly negative about something like that.

yes, there are many factors that can be involved with a 3.4, is it not obvious? or do you need me to write a few pages for you to completely comprehend my post without jumping to conclusions. why jump to negative conclusions anyway? why dont u jump to positive ones?

like, even with a 3.4 YOU HAVE A CHANCE, or the govt recognizes the health care system and is MAKING CHANGES TO IT?

why the inferiority complex?

😴

 

[bannie22]

^ *UNTIL i READ posts commenting that it was impossible to get in*

and please dont contradict yourself, the reason i apply to the states is because i respect the quality of education there.

simple to understand right?

 

[vin5cent0]

Once again, his GPA is a dime a dozen. We're not talking about overall applications here. Everyone knew already what you said (no offense). You've already stated the obvious -- he got in due to other things. Mayo wasn't impressed by his GPA -- they accepted him in spite of his GPA. It's one of many factors but it is an important one, nonetheless. He probably also had an insane MCAT score and many, many other awesome qualities and/or mitigating factors and/or an upward trend, etc.

3.5 33 if I do recall correctly. Nothing insane there. My point is people are telling the OP there is a huge world of difference between a 3.4 and a 3.6. There isn't! Stop getting hung up on it! There are too many outlying factors, like I said, to say that a 3.6 has a huge advantage over a 3.4. It's just silly

 

[bannie22]

Uh... no. Not at all.

I would trust someone that graduated from medical school (more or less). I couldn't care less what the hell their undergraduate GPA was.

well this i will agree with you. undergrad gpa is completely insignifcant after you get in. but you will have to excel at something to make up for a poorer gpa compared to millions of your peers.

 

[bannie22]

3.5 33 if I do recall correctly. Nothing insane there. My point is people are telling the OP there is a huge world of difference between a 3.4 and a 3.6. There isn't! Stop getting hung up on it! There are too many outlying factors, like I said, to say that a 3.6 has a huge advantage over a 3.4. It's just silly

but all things being EQUAL.
3.6 is super humanly greater than 3.4


and to beat a 3.6 over a 3.4, you have to be something special! so just make sure you are special before you apply and im sure ull be in a really good position.


👍

 

[ilikekiwis]

sigh. so touchy feely as usual. i never ever posted about how much harder it is for an international to get in until the people i saw was commenting that it was impossible to get in, then i posted and said nothing is impossible.

the us health care system is in a big mess, and if you do not see the mess it is in, then you need better glasses! even the govt admits it. so thank you very much.

and my point of only in the us can u apply with a 3.4. if u view it as a negative then go ahead and do so. because all i was doing is stating a point. i do not see what is wrong with stating a point. if u cannot handle the truth then go elsewhere. i am sure perhaps some other countries u can also apply with 3.4, but to my knowledge only the US. i do not see why you have to be so terribly negative about something like that.

yes, there are many factors that can be involved with a 3.4, is it not obvious? or do you need me to write a few pages for you to completely comprehend my post without jumping to conclusions. why jump to negative conclusions anyway? why dont u jump to positive ones?

like, even with a 3.4 YOU HAVE A CHANCE, or the govt recognizes the health care system and is MAKING CHANGES TO IT?

why the inferiority complex?

😴

if your post was in response to mine, it doesn't even make sense. i think you need to brush up on reading comprehension...too bad your high gpa didn't help you out there.

i wasn't arguing 3.4 is 'negative' or bad, i'm saying it's perfectly fine to apply to med school with. hence, i said that i had a gpa around there and was accepted already.

and i'm saying that 3.4 isn't too indicative of a person's ability, meaning one can have "only" a 3.4, yet still excel in med school and still conceivably be a genius. hence, a doctor with an undergrad of 3.4 doesn't make him a bad doctor.

and yeah, I AGREED with you that the US healthcare system needs change, but in the public option thread, you were as you would put it, "negative", toward the US and the government.



...seriously though, your post in response to mine made no sense. i didn't even know how/what to really address in it.

 

[apumic]

3.5 33 if I do recall correctly. Nothing insane there. My point is people are telling the OP there is a huge world of difference between a 3.4 and a 3.6. There isn't! Stop getting hung up on it! There are too many outlying factors, like I said, to say that a 3.6 has a huge advantage over a 3.4. It's just silly

33 is only "average" here on SDN. It is, in fact, the 90th percentile. So yes, he did do quite well. No, it's not extremely high for someone going to Mayo but it is quite strong and makes up for that GPA slip a bit. 3.4 to 3.6 is a climb of about 0.5 SD, which is significant when evaluating applicants. It won't make the difference on its own but you do have to make up for it if you're on the low side of the spectrum.... Where GPA matters most is in the initial evaluation. You may never get a secondary and/or an interview if your GPA is below the 10th percentile at a school (or some other arbitrary value), which a 3.4 often is!

Basically, GPA is one of many factors but it is an important one. A 0.2 difference makes up a large piece of the overall range of scores seen in 84% of applicants (3.50 +/- 0.35 or 3.15 to 3.85) as well as matriculants (3.66 +/- 0.26 or 3.40 to 3.92).

 

[bannie22]

if your post was in response to mine, it doesn't even make sense. i think you need to brush up on reading comprehension...too bad your high gpa didn't help you out there.

i wasn't arguing 3.4 is 'negative' or bad, i'm saying it's perfectly fine to apply to med school with. hence, i said that i had a gpa around there and was accepted already.

and i'm saying that 3.4 isn't too indicative of a person's ability, meaning one can have "only" a 3.4, yet still excel in med school and still conceivably be a genius. hence, a doctor with an undergrad of 3.4 doesn't make him a bad doctor.

and yeah, I AGREED with you that the US healthcare system needs change, but in the public option thread, you were as you would put it, "negative", toward the US and the government.



...seriously though, your post in response to mine made no sense. i didn't even know how/what to really address in it.

read your own conscending post again and come back. 👍

just understand that life is not always rosy, and being prepared for the worse case scenario will only serve to help and motivate OP.

 

[JonBonesJones]

one of my friends told me, why on earth would they accept anyone with a 3.4???

and if u think about it, how much would u trust someone who has always been in the middle of their class with medication that could kill if wrongly administered?

I believe its only in the US that u have a chance with a 3.4! work hard and bring it up!

...as opposed to European and many Asian countries that fill their medical schools with 18 year-olds fresh out of high school? I'll take my college educate "middle of the class" physician to a teenager any day. (BTW, what grade inflated college did you go to where a 3.4 is average?)

 

[apumic]

...as opposed to European and many Asian countries that fill their medical schools with 18 year-olds fresh out of high school? I'll take my college educate "middle of the class" physician to a teenager any day. (BTW, what grade inflated college did you go to where a 3.4 is average?)

3.4 is the average for med school applicants.

 

[LizzyM]

Please look at the average and standard gpa for matriculants to US allopathic medical schools from each state as well as Canada, etc.

http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2008/mcatgpastatemat08.htm

note that a 3.60 is below average for the residents of almost every state. Go down to 3.40 and you are at least one standard deviation below the mean for residents of almost every state/territory. Also, understand that these gpas may not fall into a normal distribution. Note too the number of matriculants from each state. AAMC has a bunch of stats that are very interesting.

 

[Uisa]

Please look at the average and standard gpa for matriculants to US allopathic medical schools from each state as well as Canada, etc.

http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2008/mcatgpastatemat08.htm

note that a 3.60 is below average for the residents of almost every state. Go down to 3.40 and you are at least one standard deviation below the mean for residents of almost every state/territory. Also, understand that these gpas may not fall into a normal distribution. Note too the number of matriculants from each state. AAMC has a bunch of stats that are very interesting.

Well I have another question then, would a high MCAT balance out a lower GPA? I mean a higher MCAT doesn't hurt anyone, but I feel that if you have a 3.4 and 34 on the MCAT would that almost be the same as 3.6 and 30 on the MCAT?

 

[LizzyM]

Well I have another question then, would a high MCAT balance out a lower GPA? I mean a higher MCAT doesn't hurt anyone, but I feel that if you have a 3.4 and 34 on the MCAT would that almost be the same as 3.6 and 30 on the MCAT?

Both have a 76% chance of acceptance (that might be a little bit inflated). See http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2008/mcatgpa-grid-3yrs-app-accpt.htm

 

[mipp0]

between semesters? No

over the course of 4 years: yea

Quoted for Truth.

Guys, do some math. After 200 or so units, there is a VERY BIG difference.

I'd like to give you more encouraging news, but there is a ridiculous difference after 4 years every 0.1 GPA difference, but as many have noted, you get a diminishing returns phenomenon the higher up (GPA or MCAT) you go.

 

[bannie22]

...as opposed to European and many Asian countries that fill their medical schools with 18 year-olds fresh out of high school? I'll take my college educate "middle of the class" physician to a teenager any day. (BTW, what grade inflated college did you go to where a 3.4 is average?)

3.4 is probably the average at your college.
unfortunately, my university enjoys and takes much pride in maintaining their C/C+ average in most courses.

and you are probably no better than many of those european and asian high schoolers 🙄 do you even know how difficult it is to get 4A and 3S paper together with great ECs at the same time? 😕

speak about ignorance...👍

 

[Uisa]

Both have a 76% chance of acceptance (that might be a little bit inflated). See http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2008/mcatgpa-grid-3yrs-app-accpt.htm

I always wonder though, are those figures with the 3.4 GPAs mainly from students who come out straight from undergrad or those people who went to a post bac program did much better than a 3.4, but then only had to post their undergrad GPA?

If so, I think these figures are quite misleading...

 

[LizzyM]

I always wonder though, are those figures with the 3.4 GPAs mainly from students who come out straight from undergrad or those people who went to a post bac program did much better than a 3.4, but then only had to post their undergrad GPA?

If so, I think these figures are quite misleading...

It is all applicants in 2008 who had those numbers. Yes, your entire application is factored into an admission decision. Where the numbers are >1,000 I think that you can have greater security in knowing that the proportion is solid compared with cells with small numbers.

 

[alibai3ah]

one of my friends told me, why on earth would they accept anyone with a 3.4???

and if u think about it, how much would u trust someone who has always been in the middle of their class with medication that could kill if wrongly administered?

I believe its only in the US that u have a chance with a 3.4! work hard and bring it up!

Why on earth would they let in people with bad EC's? Who have never traveled? No experience with other cultures? No social skills? Complete idiots outside of school?

Being a doctor isn't just about being smart, or a lot more people would be getting in. It's about the complete picture.

 

[bannie22]

Why on earth would they let in people with bad EC's? Who have never traveled? No experience with other cultures? No social skills? Complete idiots outside of school?

Being a doctor isn't just about being smart, or a lot more people would be getting in. It's about the complete picture.

😕 but i never said anything abt lettingsomeone in with bad ECs, and theres nothing wrong with ppl who have never travelled, or have never met other cultures...

i agree with you, it is the complete picture...
but i just have that higher threshold for every single component that makes up the picture.


just think of me as the simon cowell. that way its easier to understand my point of view