Is the MCAT really ‘standard’ anymore? Please vote!

[drshapiro]

Consider the following:

-Exam tappers (http://www.aamc.org/newsroom/reporter/july03/princeton.htm)
-$12,000 boarding school prep courses (TPR)
-Technical glitches handled differently at different test centers (the Jan 2007 incident)

Given that rich students can effectively purchase access to tapped questions, coupled with the differential treatment of AAMC errors at different test centers, do people think the MCAT is really a standardized test anymore?

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[BeatrixKiddo]

yes, smart people do better, duh

 

[DrBowtie]

Its standardized to a Bell Curve. Thus yes.

 

[koopa_troopa]

I thought all prep companies did "Tapping", not just TPR. I don't really have a problem with it other than it takes seats away from people really applying for medi school.

I'm not familiar with the boarding school, but you do not need $12000 to do well on the MCAT. If you have an entire summer and about $500 you can practically all the practice books from all the test companies and do them all.

The January problem surprised me, but I find that same issue very unlikely to happen again.

While there are parts of the MCAT I do not like, they do the best they can. Those problems you listed can happen with any standardized test. Once in awhile mistakes happen. And the AAMC cannot really prevent crazy premeds from spending $12000 on an MCAT prep course.

 

[relentless11]

I agree, the test is still standardized for the following reasons:

(1) The paper-based MCAT was no less standardized the the CBT. The test proctors are only human and thus imperfections are abound in this aspect. Testing locations vary a great deal as well. I've heard some test takers had to take the paper-based exams at a location that had construction going on.

(2) Statistically speaking, given the large sample size for each test version, the "curve" so the speak should standardize the test even further, so this is a non-issue. Time and time again, I have seen average students get an 8, and the top tier students get 10-13's over the past many years. Nothing has changed with the inclusion of CBT. So I don't see how this is considered non-standard.

(3) It doesn't cost $12,000 to do TPR unless you spend it on private lessons. It costs me $1799 to do the TPR course in small classrooms. Anyone who is rich enough or has family rich enough to put out $12,000 for private MCAT lessons is probably far and few. Rich people tend to have a good idea on how to manage money if they achieved that level of richness. Besides, no amount of prep courses can make a student do better on the MCAT. 80% of the effort lies with the actual PERSON and their academic foundations.

At least from the MCAT perspective, to claim that rich kids have an unfair advantage is being naive. If they are going to shell out thousands of dollars to apply for med school and the thousands of dollars to just go to college, than that $1799 is trivial. It is of their choosing to take the course or not.

 

[artaxerxes]

glitches happen with all large scale tests/things in general such as the election, its just a fact of life, but I thinke the CBT will cause less errors since its harder to lose stuff and scan things incorrectly with a comp.

As to the prepping, of course it favors the rich, and "even" 1800 is a lot of money for most people, and there are going to be a lot of people who can't afford that. With that said though, I think you can get good prep for about 500 as stated above (8xAAMC tests=240 I think+260 is books), in fact you can probably get away with 300 in hinesight and skip a few of the exams and just get prep books.
Even then, 300 can be a lot of money for some people, but hey, life's always easier when you got more money and poverty always sucks, and hopefully that'll drive test taker to work even harder to stick it to the rich kids.

 

[artaxerxes]

I agree, the test is still standardized for the following reasons:


(3) It doesn't cost $12,000 to do TPR unless you spend it on private lessons. It costs me $1799 to do the TPR course in small classrooms. Anyone who is rich enough or has family rich enough to put out $12,000 for private MCAT lessons is probably far and few. Rich people tend to have a good idea on how to manage money if they achieved that level of richness. Besides, no amount of prep courses can make a student do better on the MCAT. 80% of the effort lies with the actual PERSON and their academic foundations.

At least from the MCAT perspective, to claim that rich kids have an unfair advantage is being naive. If they are going to shell out thousands of dollars to apply for med school and the thousands of dollars to just go to college, than that $1799 is trivial. It is of their choosing to take the course or not.

Perhaps true, but most people taking the MCAT has their parents pay for part if not all of it, so in this case, money has nothing to do with "money management" skills. In fact, the people who are best at managing their money probably wouldn't even take the classroom course cause its a large waste of money....god damn rich kids and their debuacheries

 

[relentless11]

glitches happen with all large scale tests/things in general such as the election, its just a fact of life, but I thinke the CBT will cause less errors since its harder to lose stuff and scan things incorrectly with a comp.

As to the prepping, of course it favors the rich, and "even" 1800 is a lot of money for most people, and there are going to be a lot of people who can't afford that. With that said though, I think you can get good prep for about 500 as stated above (8xAAMC tests=240 I think+260 is books), in fact you can probably get away with 300 in hinesight and skip a few of the exams and just get prep books.
Even then, 300 can be a lot of money for some people, but hey, life's always easier when you got more money and poverty always sucks, and hopefully that'll drive test taker to work even harder to stick it to the rich kids.

Thats the thing, you're assuming that taking a prep course can help everyone who takes it. The sad truth is, not everyone may benefit from such a course. When I took the MCAT in 2003, I signed up for the TPR class and went to maybe 5 lectures covering topics that I was weak in. The rest of the time was better used on practice problems. I ended up getting a 36. Conversely, I had friends who went to every lecture, and did every practice problem too, but ended up with a 26-28. Wealth does not equate to ones intrinsic capacity to do well on the MCAT.

This concept of rich vs. poor vs. average kid is naive. I have 3 undergrads working for my lab. One is taking loans to pay for her Kaplan course, another is using bookstore resources (Gold, EK, etc) to study at home. All 3 have done well on the MCAT (34 and 35 respectively). Another student took TBR, and was quite conceited about the whole thing. He got a 5 on the VR, and a 21 overall. His parents paid for the program.

Money management skills apply to everyone. There are plenty of undergrads out there who do not have the benefit of parents to pay for everything, or some of it. There are such things as loans and so forth. If they are unable to afford $1800, or even $300, then what makes them think they can afford the fees for primary applications, secondaries, and the flight/hotel stay for interviews? I have seen undergrads who complain about how they can't afford TPR, Kaplan, etc, yet they save up to go on ski trips with their frats, and parties every Thurs/Fri.

I for one took Kaplan the first time I took the MCAT, and then paid for TPR the second time (2003). From 1998-2003, I work to support my family, and myself. I found both prep courses to be useful especially their structured programs. Are you implying that I am not "best at money management"? Am I rich? Nope. However I know what to spend on, and when to save money, hence I have been debt free all my life. I now enjoy life as a PhD student while preparing to apply to med school.

Your assumption that prep courses are a large waste of money is not evidence-based. I'm sure it can be a 50/50 split in these forums on who thinks what. The irony is I attribute my 36 on the MCAT in 2003 to be due to TPR's rigorous practice problems, and adequate teachers. Four years later, with my MCAT now "expired" since doing a PhD program, I took the TPR program AGAIN to access their ONLINE MCAT exams to simulate the real thing. I earn $21,000/year before taxes, pay $805/mo for rent...you think about that one. Personally, if its going to cost me $1800, $3000, $5000 to do well on a test so I can get into a med school where I'll spend $21,000-$40,000/year for 4 years? Yea....trivial.

 

[wally47]

I agree, the test is still standardized for the following reasons:

(1) The paper-based MCAT was no less standardized the the CBT. The test proctors are only human and thus imperfections are abound in this aspect. Testing locations vary a great deal as well. I've heard some test takers had to take the paper-based exams at a location that had construction going on.

(2) Statistically speaking, given the large sample size for each test version, the "curve" so the speak should standardize the test even further, so this is a non-issue. Time and time again, I have seen average students get an 8, and the top tier students get 10-13's over the past many years. Nothing has changed with the inclusion of CBT. So I don't see how this is considered non-standard.

(3) It doesn't cost $12,000 to do TPR unless you spend it on private lessons. It costs me $1799 to do the TPR course in small classrooms. Anyone who is rich enough or has family rich enough to put out $12,000 for private MCAT lessons is probably far and few. Rich people tend to have a good idea on how to manage money if they achieved that level of richness. Besides, no amount of prep courses can make a student do better on the MCAT. 80% of the effort lies with the actual PERSON and their academic foundations.

At least from the MCAT perspective, to claim that rich kids have an unfair advantage is being naive. If they are going to shell out thousands of dollars to apply for med school and the thousands of dollars to just go to college, than that $1799 is trivial. It is of their choosing to take the course or not.

Read this post..it talks about these courses http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=394652

 

[relentless11]

Read this post..it talks about these courses http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=394652

Yes, and if you click on the direct link to the program, it states its a 1-on-1 private lessons course as I pointed out in my response.

 

[drshapiro]

keep the votes coming!

 

[proclivity]

Thats the thing, you're assuming that taking a prep course can help everyone who takes it. The sad truth is, not everyone may benefit from such a course. When I took the MCAT in 2003, I signed up for the TPR class and went to maybe 5 lectures covering topics that I was weak in. The rest of the time was better used on practice problems. I ended up getting a 36. Conversely, I had friends who went to every lecture, and did every practice problem too, but ended up with a 26-28. Wealth does not equate to ones intrinsic capacity to do well on the MCAT.

This concept of rich vs. poor vs. average kid is naive. I have 3 undergrads working for my lab. One is taking loans to pay for her Kaplan course, another is using bookstore resources (Gold, EK, etc) to study at home. All 3 have done well on the MCAT (34 and 35 respectively). Another student took TBR, and was quite conceited about the whole thing. He got a 5 on the VR, and a 21 overall. His parents paid for the program.

Money management skills apply to everyone. There are plenty of undergrads out there who do not have the benefit of parents to pay for everything, or some of it. There are such things as loans and so forth. If they are unable to afford $1800, or even $300, then what makes them think they can afford the fees for primary applications, secondaries, and the flight/hotel stay for interviews? I have seen undergrads who complain about how they can't afford TPR, Kaplan, etc, yet they save up to go on ski trips with their frats, and parties every Thurs/Fri.

I for one took Kaplan the first time I took the MCAT, and then paid for TPR the second time (2003). From 1998-2003, I work to support my family, and myself. I found both prep courses to be useful especially their structured programs. Are you implying that I am not "best at money management"? Am I rich? Nope. However I know what to spend on, and when to save money, hence I have been debt free all my life. I now enjoy life as a PhD student while preparing to apply to med school.

Your assumption that prep courses are a large waste of money is not evidence-based. I'm sure it can be a 50/50 split in these forums on who thinks what. The irony is I attribute my 36 on the MCAT in 2003 to be due to TPR's rigorous practice problems, and adequate teachers. Four years later, with my MCAT now "expired" since doing a PhD program, I took the TPR program AGAIN to access their ONLINE MCAT exams to simulate the real thing. I earn $21,000/year before taxes, pay $805/mo for rent...you think about that one. Personally, if its going to cost me $1800, $3000, $5000 to do well on a test so I can get into a med school where I'll spend $21,000-$40,000/year for 4 years? Yea....trivial.

I am a strong proponent that all people who are serious enough about medical school can study on their own and do well on the MCAT. If they went through requisite classes and did well, they obviously have some amount of studying skills that could prove useful in preparation for the MCAT.

I also have noticed, and many of you have probably observed the same, that nowhere near 100% of the people who take the paid courses, be it a few hundred or several thousand, are very serious about the class. they only come to class and do not study much on their own. Simply throwing their money away. Coming to class for your known weak points is a great idea, relentless, since knowing what you don't know is invaluable in any profession.

In interest of full disclosure, i have not attended a paid course, however i did teach undergrad inorganic chemistry for about four years at Ohio State Univ and during my office hours each week, many students would come in for help on chemistry questions they had from the paid courses. These students were the ones who were working on their off time and these students are where i rec'd my information from.