Is the stereotype about surgeons really true?

[ennuiescence]

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Is it true that surgeons are generally regarded as being jerks? I do not typically refer to outstanding stereotypes as a basis for my own opinion.

I am a token 2nd year medical student thinking about plastics, but my personality isn't exactly over-the-top. I don't obsess about sports or hide some sort of xenophobic tendencies in a closet for the sake of "professionalism."

I'm somewhat liberal and eccentric, being happy with making music in my spare time.
Plastics appeals to my sense of aesthetics while potentially catering to my tendencies to want to use my hands for something.
Comments or concerns?

 

[mig26x]

I had a friend in med school that he thought he was God when he was in the surgery room. He really said he felt like God because "we fixed problems at the moment".

 

[Blake]

Not true from what I've experienced so far.

 

[DeLaughterDO]

It really depends on the surgeon. I have met surgeons that are the biggest @$$holes I've ever seen. I've also met taco bell gordita makers who are just as big @$$holes.

Stereotypes are just what they seem - exaggerations made to seem the norm.

jd

 

[core0]

It really depends on the surgeon. I have met surgeons that are the biggest @$$holes I've ever seen. I've also met taco bell gordita makers who are just as big @$$holes.

Stereotypes are just what they seem - exaggerations made to seem the norm.

jd

no not taco bell again SOB.

 

[O Face]

Of course stereotypes are rarely completely true, but in my experience I found a higher proportion of jerks in surgery as opposed to medicine.

 

[Tired Pigeon]

The surgeons I have encountered tend to be very self-confident, direct, and opinionated. To some people this comes across as arrogant and rude, but I actually sort of like their directness. You never have to wonder about where you stand -- I prefer that to people who are super-nice to your face & then give you a **** evaluation. You do need sort of a thick skin to spend any time with them, though.

 

[calgon]

Depends on the surgeon! CV can be jerks and sleazy in my experience, but derms and ENTs can be pretty happy go lucky!

 

[DeLaughterDO]

no not taco bell again SOB.

if the shoe fits...

 

[PediBoneDoc]

The surgeons I have encountered tend to be very self-confident, direct, and opinionated. To some people this comes across as arrogant and rude, but I actually sort of like their directness. You never have to wonder about where you stand -- I prefer that to people who are super-nice to your face & then give you a **** evaluation. You do need sort of a thick skin to spend any time with them, though.

you know i asked the same question when i was a medical student and this is what i was told ... "surgery does not make you an @ss4ole, but if you are an @ss4hole or have those tendencies, it will definitely bring it out" ... i find this to be true ....

it also tends to follow different sub-specialties more than others ... Neuro and CT surgery, tend to be a little more uptight than ortho 🙂)) and plastics ... but if you look at the specialties, there is a little more of a pucker factor ... i am definitely more of an @ss4hole when i do a scoli case than when i do a clubfoot ...

so, in essence, surgery does not change your natural tendencies ... that being said, it does attract a certain personality type😀 ... and remember this, no one wants a surgeon that lacks confidence ...

if you are interested in a surgical subspecialty, go for it ... your personality won't change and pick a residency program that suites your personality
see http://orthopaedic-residency.blogspot.com/2007/02/my-rank-list.html ... i speak about how to make your rank list ...

pedi out ....

 

[danielmd06]

OP, you get 2 points for using the word "xenophobic" without making a reference to France in the same sentence. 😉

PediBoneDoc's thoughts dovetail with mine.

 

[Winged Scapula]

I agree with PediBoneDoc as well.

There are obviously some jerks who go into surgery, but I've met them in every field. Surgeons do tend to come off as abrasive at times, but mostly they're decisive and confident. If you're a jerk when you started medical school, residency won't change that...and while I had my moments when tired and frustrated, I don't think (nor have I been told) that my personality changed.

 

[AutomaTron]

The nicest and probably happiest people in medicine despite not getting paid as much as a lot of other specialties: Pediatricians (both male and female)

The biggest egos unable to see there own flaws but finding them in everyone else unless you are stroking their egos in which case they can be as blind to your flaws as they want to be: surgeons

The ones who can be outright snakes in the grass smiling to your face and stabbing you in the back as a regular practice with no remorse or sense of shame: ob/gyn especially females

The most introspective introverted self analysis to the point of micro analyzing everything anyone says and their own motives so much so that they induce mental illnesses they supposedly are supposed to be treating upon themselves: psychiatrists

The most jaded and least empathetic toward patients due to shear volume of being dumped on by every single service and having to write huge long notes about every little problem: inpatient internal medicine

The most dumped upon in terms of respect from other specialties to the point where some residents rotating on other services are made fun of behind their back and treated shabbily: Family practice

The least sincere trash talked about specialty with grudging respect lying just underneath the surface because residents from other services secretly know how woefully little they know about the subject: Neurology

The generally care free but often egos stepped upon by surgeons while they laugh all the way to the bank with their bruised egos without call: anesthesiology.

Cardiologist: Generally respected by all but hard to get into. Generally populated by individuals happy to be doing what they are doing.

Radiologist: Who knows no one ever see them they just sit in dark basements making money and then going home.

emergency medicine: discharge everyone who isn't dying without doing anything for them or setting up any followup and doing nothing but passing on the ones that are dying to other services if they are lucky. Other services constantly complaining about how "dumb" they are with the people they admit and the actual things they order and do for the patient. Seems like it would be cushy but burnout do to weird hours and dealing with the drunk and disorderilies on a constant basis.

*exceptions to all but amount of truth to stereotypes

 

[cytoskelement]

Stereotypes are such a timesaver though.

 

[nobrainer]

Depends on the surgeon! CV can be jerks and sleazy in my experience, but derms and ENTs can be pretty happy go lucky!

Since when are derms considered surgeons?

 

[hawaiigirl]

The least sincere trash talked about specialty with grudging respect lying just underneath the surface because residents from other services secretly know how woefully little they know about the subject: Neurology

wow i'll be getting respect?! that's good to know. 🙂

neurologist-to-be, 2011

 

[Winged Scapula]

wow i'll be getting respect?! that's good to know. 🙂

neurologist-to-be, 2011

Grudgingly...under the surface (ie, you'll never know). 😀

 

[AutomaTron]

wow i'll be getting respect?! that's good to know. 🙂

neurologist-to-be, 2011

Welcome to the club. I will be starting in July. You have to realize there could be a little spin on that one.

 

[turkleton]

The surgeons in the audience brought up a good point that people are jerks before they became surgeons. However, just speaking anecdotally, the training of a surgeon definitely takes its wear and tear on the residents and they may leave their residency not as chripy as they started. We're also the generation of residents who are being trained by the last of the "old guard" doctors so to speak- those who had their training in the brutal 70's, 80's and 90's where the yell first mentality was the norm. However, times are changing as is the nature of surgery and it now attracts people with a wide variety of personal characteristics- no longer restricted to the type A jackass it might have recruited in the past. Still, you have to realize some of the elements of surgeons are vital to them being surgeons- they need to be a little hard nosed, a little more type A, with I'll do anything I need to, to get the job done attitude.

 

[hawaiigirl]

aww, you're going into neuro? you burst my bubble! i don't believe you anymore about neurologists getting respect... 😛

 

[AutomaTron]

aww, you're going into neuro? you burst my bubble! i don't believe you anymore about neurologists getting respect... 😛

I think they get respect. At least they do at my school. If they don't it's BS rivalry and with no basis other than vanity and a refusal to admit large gaping shortcomings in neurology and the need for reliance on the neuro people to make the diagnoses/prognosis at anything other than the most common neurologic diseases. I'm happy to have one area to study that is interesting and dynamic.

 

[AutomaTron]

Grudgingly...under the surface (ie, you'll never know). 😀

Yeah but let's face it. Most other physicians don't like or want to be like or respect you guys (read surgeons) that's why you are listed seperately in the yellow pages under surgeons instead of physicians. I am pretty sure my grandmother that knits "afghans" could probably walk in and do a better job than a lot of surgeons without ever having performed one surgery. I was making end-to-side microanastomoses on rat femorals after about 20 minutes of practice in the lab. Also anethesiologists are much more important as evidenced by the 100,000 dollars more they make than a general surgeon.

 

[AF_PedsBoy]

The nicest and probably happiest people in medicine despite not getting paid as much as a lot of other specialties: Pediatricians (both male and female)

The biggest egos unable to see there own flaws but finding them in everyone else unless you are stroking their egos in which case they can be as blind to your flaws as they want to be: surgeons

The ones who can be outright snakes in the grass smiling to your face and stabbing you in the back as a regular practice with no remorse or sense of shame: ob/gyn especially females

The most introspective introverted self analysis to the point of micro analyzing everything anyone says and their own motives so much so that they induce mental illnesses they supposedly are supposed to be treating upon themselves: psychiatrists

The most jaded and least empathetic toward patients due to shear volume of being dumped on by every single service and having to write huge long notes about every little problem: inpatient internal medicine

The most dumped upon in terms of respect from other specialties to the point where some residents rotating on other services are made fun of behind their back and treated shabbily: Family practice

The least sincere trash talked about specialty with grudging respect lying just underneath the surface because residents from other services secretly know how woefully little they know about the subject: Neurology

The generally care free but often egos stepped upon by surgeons while they laugh all the way to the bank with their bruised egos without call: anesthesiology.

Cardiologist: Generally respected by all but hard to get into. Generally populated by individuals happy to be doing what they are doing.

Radiologist: Who knows no one ever see them they just sit in dark basements making money and then going home.

emergency medicine: discharge everyone who isn't dying without doing anything for them or setting up any followup and doing nothing but passing on the ones that are dying to other services if they are lucky. Other services constantly complaining about how "dumb" they are with the people they admit and the actual things they order and do for the patient. Seems like it would be cushy but burnout do to weird hours and dealing with the drunk and disorderilies on a constant basis.

*exceptions to all but amount of truth to stereotypes

Holy crap I couldn't have put it any better!

By the way, surgeons may be abrasive, but they can be just as bad as OB at evaluating med students - I was told they have the attitude of women, "If you don't know what you did wrong I'm not going to tell you." If you screw up big time, you'll suddenly notice they stop asking you to do things, your team will suddenly disappear when you're not looking for that meeting with the attending, etc. etc. Clueless people think, "Boy this is the cushest rotation ever!" until they get their eval. People who are with it realize "Oh crap I better buy them some flowers" - oh wait, that's women again... They're not bad though if you grovel a little while consulting them, or if they're consulting YOU!

 

[PediBoneDoc]

Originally Posted by AutomaTron
Yeah but let's face it. Most other physicians don't like or want to be like or respect you guys (read surgeons) that's why you are listed seperately in the yellow pages under surgeons instead of physicians. I am pretty sure my grandmother that knits "afghans" could probably walk in and do a better job than a lot of surgeons without ever having performed one surgery. I was making end-to-side microanastomoses on rat femorals after about 20 minutes of practice in the lab. Also anethesiologists are much more important as evidenced by the 100,000 dollars more they make than a general surgeon.

a neurologist throwing stones. play nice. the truth for every specialty is we have a symbiotic relationship. we all need each other. we all have our place in the realm of medicine. everyone's personality is different and every specialty has a personality type.

i am ortho. we are testosterone driven, fraternity like, jocks (for the most part). we have fun at what we do. we laugh at the tired gen surg and and the neurologist with his reflex hammer and pocket protector. do we respect them for what they do, of course.

most non surgery types really have no idea how technically demanding some procedures can be. doing a procedure on something that you don't have to follow up is easy. sometimes it is not the procedure that will get you into trouble, it is the post op care, the complications. most can read a book and read like a cookbook on how to perform a procedure. this does not make a surgeon. it is knowing how to stay out of trouble, that is what separates the men from boys (woman from the girls). the decision when not to operate are as important as when to operate.

we all have our quirks. i guess being trained in the 90's, i must have a slant towards being more malignant, ........ NOT. there is no justification for being an dingus. you may be cranky from time to time, this is human.

 

[boston]

Yeah but let's face it. Most other physicians don't like or want to be like or respect you guys (read surgeons) that's why you are listed seperately in the yellow pages under surgeons instead of physicians. I am pretty sure my grandmother that knits "afghans" could probably walk in and do a better job than a lot of surgeons without ever having performed one surgery. I was making end-to-side microanastomoses on rat femorals after about 20 minutes of practice in the lab. Also anethesiologists are much more important as evidenced by the 100,000 dollars more they make than a general surgeon.

You really have a chip on your shoulder don't you? Not sure why you feel a need to compensate for your own inadequacies -- you clearly have issues.

Anyway, if your family member gets pancreatic cancer, don't call a surgeon, just read it in a book and do that Whipple yourself. You probably would do a great job. I am sure you could teach me a thing or two about pylorus-preserving vs. standard Whipple, drain or no drain, portal vein resection and reconstruction, feeding jejunostomy or no, pancreatic duct stent or no.

Heck, if your family member gets an inguinal hernia, I am sure you can that too. Who needs surgeons?

By the way, I am sure as a neurologist you so much more well-versed in critical care than most surgeons too.

Anyway, son, if you're not a troll and you truly meant what you wrote, one day you will grow up and see that we all need each other as PediBoneDoc pointed out. The neurologists and vascular surgeons where I work have a good working relationship and mutually refer patients to each other. Good luck in medical school and residency with your attitude.

 

[AutomaTron]

You really have a chip on your shoulder don't you? Not sure why you feel a need to compensate for your own inadequacies -- you clearly have issues.

Anyway, if your family member gets pancreatic cancer, don't call a surgeon, just read it in a book and do that Whipple yourself. You probably would do a great job. I am sure you could teach me a thing or two about pylorus-preserving vs. standard Whipple, drain or no drain, portal vein resection and reconstruction, feeding jejunostomy or no, pancreatic duct stent or no.

Heck, if your family member gets an inguinal hernia, I am sure you can that too. Who needs surgeons?

By the way, I am sure as a neurologist you so much more well-versed in critical care than most surgeons too.

Anyway, son, if you're not a troll and you truly meant what you wrote, one day you will grow up and see that we all need each other as PediBoneDoc pointed out. The neurologists and vascular surgeons where I work have a good working relationship and mutually refer patients to each other. Good luck in medical school and residency with your attitude.

Relax Francis, I was just responding to the jab by KC sdn online surgeon representative.

 

[boston]

Relax Francis, I was just responding to the jab by KC sdn online surgeon representative.

you're the one getting all worked up over nothing. the "jab" was meant in jest in case you need me to interpret her smiley face for you. whatever... guess you just need some work with your sarcasm

 

[danielmd06]

i am ortho. we are testosterone driven, fraternity like, jocks (for the most part). we have fun at what we do. we laugh at the tired gen surg and and the neurologist with his reflex hammer and pocket protector. do we respect them for what they do, of course.

I weigh 200lbs and can bench 340. No pocket protector...though I was voted "Most Handsome" once. Oh, and I'm a Neurologist.

Bwahahahahah. 😉

P.S. My workout buddies in the gym (the ones who are docs) are all Ortho with one single exception...a Radiologist.

 

[PediBoneDoc]

danielmd06, dude what happened? you missed your calling. you must have a limp or something. we still have spots for those who lost there way.😉

much love for my neurology folks (chest thump and point). we interact a lot in my lil' world.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Yeah but let's face it. Most other physicians don't like or want to be like or respect you guys (read surgeons) that's why you are listed seperately in the yellow pages under surgeons instead of physicians. I am pretty sure my grandmother that knits "afghans" could probably walk in and do a better job than a lot of surgeons without ever having performed one surgery. I was making end-to-side microanastomoses on rat femorals after about 20 minutes of practice in the lab. Also anethesiologists are much more important as evidenced by the 100,000 dollars more they make than a general surgeon.

You must have a different phone book - mine lists : Physicians: MD and DO. Everyone is separated by specialty (ie, ID, Endocrine, Ob/Gyn, Ortho, etc.).

Thank you for reminding us that salary = importance. That is why neurologists make so little in comparison to CEOs of large companies, stockbrokers and of course, surgeons. 😉 (see that <---- emoticon means I am teasing you - very generous of me, me thinks, especially after your description of surgeons)

Also thanks for promoting me to "SDN Surgeon Representative". I'm sure all the others here who are surgeons will be proud to have me represent them even without being nominated for the position. I think I will get my coats embroidered to say that.

I suggest you turn your sarcasm monitor up a little higher; you seem to have a bit of trouble reading it.🙄

BTW, I think you will find that most of us here share PediBoneDoc's vision - we all need and respect other members of the health field, and realize that everyone plays a valuable part in the care of a patient. After 5 years of doing research in a Neurology department, I am quite well versed in the work they do; just because I chose another line of work doesn't mean that I don't recognize their value (or can't understand all the pathways).

 

[Llenroc]

You must have a different phone book - mine lists : Physicians: MD and DO. Everyone is separated by specialty (ie, ID, Endocrine, Ob/Gyn, Ortho, etc.).

Thank you for reminding us that salary = importance. That is why neurologists make so little in comparison to CEOs of large companies, stockbrokers and of course, surgeons. 😉 (see that <---- emoticon means I am teasing you - very generous of me, me thinks, especially after your description of surgeons)

Also thanks for promoting me to "SDN Surgeon Representative". I'm sure all the others here who are surgeons will be proud to have me represent them even without being nominated for the position. I think I will get my coats embroidered to say that.

I suggest you turn your sarcasm monitor up a little higher; you seem to have a bit of trouble reading it.🙄

BTW, I think you will find that most of us here share PediBoneDoc's vision - we all need and respect other members of the health field, and realize that everyone plays a valuable part in the care of a patient. After 5 years of doing research in a Neurology department, I am quite well versed in the work they do; just because I chose another line of work doesn't mean that I don't recognize their value (or can't understand all the pathways).

Except for General Surgery. At least the Neurologist got to have a life during his residency.

 

[deleted87716]

I am teasing you - very generous of me, me thinks, especially after your description of surgeons

Now you've done it...you've made her mad. Don't you see that bloody knife in her hand? What's that matter with you?!?

😉

 

[Apollyon]

Also thanks for promoting me to "SDN Surgeon Representative". I'm sure all the others here who are surgeons will be proud to have me represent them even without being nominated for the position. I think I will get my coats embroidered to say that.

Hey, see how this guy clipped everyone in 2 or three lines, but doubled it for EM? The only thing he didn't mention is this: do you know why people do EM? Because we're too dumb to spell ENT.

 

[AF_PedsBoy]

You must have a different phone book - mine lists : Physicians: MD and DO. Everyone is separated by specialty (ie, ID, Endocrine, Ob/Gyn, Ortho, etc.).

Thank you for reminding us that salary = importance. That is why neurologists make so little in comparison to CEOs of large companies, stockbrokers and of course, surgeons. 😉 (see that <---- emoticon means I am teasing you - very generous of me, me thinks, especially after your description of surgeons)

Also thanks for promoting me to "SDN Surgeon Representative". I'm sure all the others here who are surgeons will be proud to have me represent them even without being nominated for the position. I think I will get my coats embroidered to say that.

I suggest you turn your sarcasm monitor up a little higher; you seem to have a bit of trouble reading it.🙄

BTW, I think you will find that most of us here share PediBoneDoc's vision - we all need and respect other members of the health field, and realize that everyone plays a valuable part in the care of a patient. After 5 years of doing research in a Neurology department, I am quite well versed in the work they do; just because I chose another line of work doesn't mean that I don't recognize their value (or can't understand all the pathways).

I agree, we always badmouth other professions but we really depend on each other; for instance people make fun of psych as a "soft" profession but boy are you glad to see them when you have a suicidal patient that needs an evaluation. Or surgeons with their reps as aholes, but when you need a consult for an acute abdomen they're there for you. Of course being single and not a woman, I still have nothing good to say about Ob/Gyn... ha ha, just kidding, I love my Ob/Gyn fellow residents - who else keeps you company at night when you're Peds on nursery/NICU - you practically live together the way those nights stretch out...

 

[deleted109597]

It will be once I start.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Except for General Surgery. At least the Neurologist got to have a life during his residency.

True...the life during residency for Neurology is undoubtedly better, but I have to say my salary offers have not been too bad, despite the "horror" stories out there.

 

[ddmo]

danielmd06, dude what happened? you missed your calling. you must have a limp or something. we still have spots for those who lost there way.😉

much love for my neurology folks (chest thump and point). we interact a lot in my lil' world.

 

[Rook16]

Yeah but let's face it. Most other physicians don't like or want to be like or respect you guys (read surgeons) that's why you are listed seperately in the yellow pages under surgeons instead of physicians. I am pretty sure my grandmother that knits "afghans" could probably walk in and do a better job than a lot of surgeons without ever having performed one surgery. I was making end-to-side microanastomoses on rat femorals after about 20 minutes of practice in the lab. Also anethesiologists are much more important as evidenced by the 100,000 dollars more they make than a general surgeon.

i once did a lap nissen without complication on a newborn hamster with one hand tied behind my back, and a blindfold, oh and I had just drank a fifth of JB whiskey....Mr Automatron, do you think I too could grow up to be a neurologist?

 

[sponch]

Yeah but let's face it. Most other physicians don't like or want to be like or respect you guys (read surgeons) that's why you are listed seperately in the yellow pages under surgeons instead of physicians. I am pretty sure my grandmother that knits "afghans" could probably walk in and do a better job than a lot of surgeons without ever having performed one surgery. I was making end-to-side microanastomoses on rat femorals after about 20 minutes of practice in the lab. Also anethesiologists are much more important as evidenced by the 100,000 dollars more they make than a general surgeon.

The reason physicians and surgeons are listed separately is historical. Physicians and surgeons at one time were two separate professions. Physicians had the title doctor while surgeons were simply called mister (which is still how it is done in the UK). That's why Columbia's medical school is called College of Physicians and Surgeons. Anyway, you should seriously reexamine your attitude toward other specialties, not to mention your attitude about salary being a proxy for importance.

 

[SLUser11]

Yeah but let's face it. Most other physicians don't like or want to be like or respect you guys (read surgeons) that's why you are listed seperately in the yellow pages under surgeons instead of physicians. I am pretty sure my grandmother that knits "afghans" could probably walk in and do a better job than a lot of surgeons without ever having performed one surgery. I was making end-to-side microanastomoses on rat femorals after about 20 minutes of practice in the lab. Also anethesiologists are much more important as evidenced by the 100,000 dollars more they make than a general surgeon.

Please kill yourself.

I weigh 200lbs and can bench 340. No pocket protector...though I was voted "Most Handsome" once. Oh, and I'm a Neurologist.

Bwahahahahah. 😉

P.S. My workout buddies in the gym (the ones who are docs) are all Ortho with one single exception...a Radiologist.

I have something for you.

Hey, see how this guy clipped everyone in 2 or three lines, but doubled it for EM?

I did notice that. We can argue all day long about different specialties not getting recognition, but nobody gets less than the ER docs, and I for one actually understand and respect what they do. I have always thought that ER should be a required rotation in med school to give future residents some much-needed perspective.

 

[danielmd06]

I have something for you.

No thanks. I'm trying to watch my girlish figure. I'll take a beer, though.

 

[AutomaTron]

I suggest you turn your sarcasm monitor up a little higher; you seem to have a bit of trouble reading it.🙄

I've never quite understood why people think sarcasm works in written form. I've always thought it's use over an anonymous internet forum as a highly sensitive and specific sign of dyslexia 😉.

 

[kaos]

I've never quite understood why people think sarcasm works in written form. I've always thought it's use over an anonymous internet forum as a highly sensitive and specific sign of dyslexia 😉.

You obviously haven't been to the Lounge.

 

[deleted87716]

You obviously haven't been to the Lounge.

^ Sarcasm

It can work. See? I got it. 😉

 

[mlw03]

my 2 cents to the original question: at my school i would say that the proportion of rude/arrogant surgeons is higher than the proportion of rude/arrogant non-surgeon. i won't generalize with such a small n, but it was clear the minute i said, "no, i'm not going into surgery" that they weren't interested in making sure i learned much. of course surgeons are necessary - their technical skills are unique and totally necessary. but the general attitude of self-inflicted torture equaling some moral platitude is absurd, and the way some of the surgeon i met cracked on all non-surgeons, well i think that helps explain why there is such animosity between surgical and non-surgical fields. during 1 month of general surgery i heard medicine, pathology, radiology, and ob-gyn docs insulted by various general surgery residents or attendings.

 

[Winged Scapula]

during 1 month of general surgery i heard medicine, pathology, radiology, and ob-gyn docs insulted by various general surgery residents or attendings.

Just curious...didn't you hear other specialties insult surgeons? I heard it all the time, both in medical school and residency. Believe me, it didn't go over well in medical school with MANY specialties when they asked and I said I was applying to surgery. Snide comments, insults and a lack of interest in teaching me things I would "never use or remember".

There isn't much love lost on both sides of the street.

 

[mlw03]

Just curious...didn't you hear other specialties insult surgeons? I heard it all the time, both in medical school and residency. Believe me, it didn't go over well in medical school with MANY specialties when they asked and I said I was applying to surgery. Snide comments, insults and a lack of interest in teaching me things I would "never use or remember".

There isn't much love lost on both sides of the street.

i haven't heard too much cracking on surgeons, however i'll admit i'm much more likely to tune such insults out than to ignore the cracks the surgeons made because i myself had such a negative experience. but your last line is completely accurate i think - no love lost between medicine and surgery. turk and jd they ain't.

 

[GoodMonkey]

Just curious...didn't you hear other specialties insult surgeons?

my favorite (because i can take a joke) were the acronyms FOO and FOOBA that got tossed around on my medicine rotations when i told people i was applying to ortho (especially being a smaller female.)

FOO = found on ortho
FOOBA = found on ortho barely alive.



if you can't laugh at yourself, you shouldn't be laughing at anyone else. 🙂

 

[Tired]

Believe me, it didn't go over well in medical school with MANY specialties when they asked and I said I was applying to surgery. Snide comments, insults and a lack of interest in teaching me things I would "never use or remember".

There isn't much love lost on both sides of the street.

This was my experience as well. The cracks were constant, and most of the time not particularly ironic or funny. Unlike the Surgery jokes about the other specialties, Medicine comments about Surgery often seemed to really represent their true opinion. Nevermind that General Surgery ran their own ICUs, nevermind that any discomfort in the extremities immediately spawned an Ortho consult, nevermind that the surgeons were the fallback when Medicine couldn't perform even the simplest procedures (suturing, thoracentesis, pericentesis, etc).

For all the jokes Surgery makes about Medicine, I felt like the Medicine comments were much more malignant and disrespectful. I think this did more to solidify my interest in Surgery than anything else . . .

 

[SLUser11]

but the general attitude of self-inflicted torture equaling some moral platitude is absurd.

That sentence doesn't make sense to me. Why would we yearn for moral platitude? Plus, I'm annoyed that "attitude" and "platitude" rhyme.

Anyway, that "self-inflicted torture" is universal across specialties. Med students and residents love to complain, and magnify their inconveniences, and compare workloads, etc. That's why you hear neurology residents saying "oh man, I'm swamped!" when they have 2 pending consults (personal experience, not the rule).

All specialties have their own unique cross they like to hang themselves from. In surgery, the cross is just a little bigger, and much louder.

Example given:
Surgery residents crying.

"we only get three weeks vacation."
"lucky! I only get 2 weeks!"
"Lucky! At least you get to choose when!"
"Lucky! I only (insert worse situation here)!"