Is there a point in submitting your application June 1st even if you don't have your DAT?

[StudentDentistsRock]

Was just curious about this.

Scheduled DAT for the end of June. Is there a point in me submitting my application June first even though I won't have my DAT scores? Or is it better to just submit everything at once when I take the exam? I also know that it takes a few weeks for official scores to come out, so was wondering if this impacts anything as well. Thoughts?

One more question I had and I didn't want to open a new thread so I thought I'd place it here. I'm applying to chem grad school as well (career choice conflict; keeping both doors open for now), will dental/grad schools know that I applied to both? For example, if I applied to UPenn dental and graduate school, will they be aware of this? If so, I'm guessing this is a bad thing right? Suggestions?

Thanks.

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[nowaysurvey]

There really isn't much of a point since most schools don't usually review your application until everything is submitted, but AADSAS, nevertheless, does allow you to submit the application early if you wish. If you have time, I suggest you apply early anyways (if everything else is ready), that way you won't have to worry about it later. Regardless, if you take your DAT in June and apply immediately afterwards, it's still early in the application cycle, so not much negative impact in my opinion.

As for the DAT scores, it doesn't take too long, and some schools will consider your "unofficial" scores if you send a copy of that to them, granted they'll eventually receive your official scores at a later time.

As for your last question, dental schools and graduate schools shouldn't be able to find out that you applied to both unless you specifically tell them. The AADSAS does ask "Have you previously, or are you currently applying to a health profession school other than dental school?," but I wouldn't consider graduate school as a health profession school. Regardless, it won't look good if either school (especially the dental ADCOM) found out if you applied to the other as it shows lack of 100% commitment and resolve for each respective path.

Just curious as to why you haven't committed 100% to either path yet. Applying to both seems like a lot of money and effort.
My suggestion? Consider a dual PhD/DDS (or DMD) program. My state school offers a dual PhD/DDS program (disciplines include: Microbiology, Pharmacology, Physiology, Anatomy/Cell Biology, Biochemistry, or Genetics) and will waiver your tuition (+ includes a stipend for graduate school years) upon completion. Many other schools offer similar programs as well. Note that these programs usually take 6-8 years to be completed.

Best of luck~

 

[smile matters]

I had the same question in mind as your first question. This will be a helpful thread for me to follow.
I heard many people select all the schools at the testing center when they finish taking the DAT. Is there any harm in selecting all of them? Is it free? I just don't want to pay extra.

 

[Faefly]

I want to know too, I am afraid that If I apply on June the first, without the dat, they will go over my application and ignore it and then they won't come back again at it. I know it's weird thinking, but I don't know really how they deal with the applications.

I had the same question in mind as your first question. This will be a helpful thread for me to follow.
I heard many people select all the schools at the testing center when they finish taking the DAT. Is there any harm in selecting all of them? Is it free? I just don't want to pay extra.

I would like to know the answer to this question as well?

 

[wengerout]

There is a point because it takes so long to be verified. I submitted first week of June and took my DAT at the end of June. Faxed my scores to school who already got my app and could get secondaries early and then interviews.


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[Faefly]

There is a point because it takes so long to be verified. I submitted first week of June and took my DAT at the end of June. Faxed my scores to school who already got my app and could get secondaries early and then interviews.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

What if I'll take the dat in mid july, should i also apply June the first?

 

[wengerout]

What if I'll take the dat in mid july, should i also apply June the first?

I think so, I don't really see a benefit in waiting.


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[Faefly]

I think so, I don't really see a benefit in waiting.


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Thank you. Hopefully, I'll have all my Lor by then.

 

[cooliyak]

I had the same question in mind as your first question. This will be a helpful thread for me to follow.
I heard many people select all the schools at the testing center when they finish taking the DAT. Is there any harm in selecting all of them? Is it free? I just don't want to pay extra.

Not at the testing center, but if you select all of the schools when you register (which is free), then you won't have to pay $30+/school later if you want to add some. Some schools request official DAT score reports even though the scores are uploaded to AADSAS and sent along with it anyway (unless it has changed from when I applied in 2012). I know my application was thrown out of a school or two because they didn't receive my official score report and I found out too late that that mattered to them. There's also no harm in selecting all the schools either. If you end up not applying to some, no big deal.

 

[BK165]

Yes, submit your app without DAT scores as soon as possible. It takes a few weeks for AADSAS to verify GPA, get transcripts, LORs, etc. This way, everything will already be processed in the system before you take your DAT. Once you submit your DAT scores, they will get processed within a few weeks. This way, you won't have to delay the processing any further or worry about anything else. Usually, schools will email you and tell you they can't look at your application until your DAT scores are submitted, but once you take them/ submit them, you will have a full application.

 

[Typical Average Student]

Transcript submission, GPA verification, and LOR reception take an average of 3-4 weeks to process (GPA verification takes the longest time). If you wait to submit your application after your DAT, you're extending your waiting time for another month followed by however long it will take for your DAT scores to be verified. In addition, you'll have to wait for your application to be sent out in batches (sent every 1-2 weeks). So overall, there is a lot of waiting.... submit it asap. You can always make changes via updates to the school through e-mail.

Try to e-submit asap, ideally within the first 2 weeks of June if you want to be "early". I e-submitted June 1st but did not take my DAT until July 14th. I received my first interview on July 30th, almost immediately upon my DAT scores being confirmed.

Some schools (NYU and Baylor for example) will allow you to update your application with your Unofficial DAT Scores via e-mail (just scan it onto your computer) so you don't have to wait for it to be processed.

 

[StudentDentistsRock]

Transcript submission, GPA verification, and LOR reception take an average of 3-4 weeks to process (GPA verification takes the longest time). If you wait to submit your application after your DAT, you're extending your waiting time for another month followed by however long it will take for your DAT scores to be verified. In addition, you'll have to wait for your application to be sent out in batches (sent every 1-2 weeks). So overall, there is a lot of waiting.... submit it asap. You can always make changes via updates to the school through e-mail.

Try to e-submit asap, ideally within the first 2 weeks of June if you want to be "early". I e-submitted June 1st but did not take my DAT until July 14th. I received my first interview on July 30th, almost immediately upon my DAT scores being confirmed.

Some schools (NYU and Baylor for example) will allow you to update your application with your Unofficial DAT Scores via e-mail (just scan it onto your computer) so you don't have to wait for it to be processed.

This was not only really helpful, but really reassuring as well. I'll definitely submit everything by June first (I have all my other application components ready). It sucks honestly that I have to wait another few weeks for my DAT scores to verify and what not. I thought that I could just reopen my application, insert my scores, and resubmit or something. But I guess sending the unofficial scores in the meantime also works. I'm only applying to a few schools (temple, penn, Columbia, NYU, and maybe Harvard) so I hope to get interviews as quick as you did. Thanks.

 

[StudentDentistsRock]

There really isn't much of a point since most schools don't usually review your application until everything is submitted, but AADSAS, nevertheless, does allow you to submit the application early if you wish. If you have time, I suggest you apply early anyways (if everything else is ready), that way you won't have to worry about it later. Regardless, if you take your DAT in June and apply immediately afterwards, it's still early in the application cycle, so not much negative impact in my opinion.

As for the DAT scores, it doesn't take too long, and some schools will consider your "unofficial" scores if you send a copy of that to them, granted they'll eventually receive your official scores at a later time.

As for your last question, dental schools and graduate schools shouldn't be able to find out that you applied to both unless you specifically tell them. The AADSAS does ask "Have you previously, or are you currently applying to a health profession school other than dental school?," but I wouldn't consider graduate school as a health profession school. Regardless, it won't look good if either school (especially the dental ADCOM) found out if you applied to the other as it shows lack of 100% commitment and resolve for each respective path.

Just curious as to why you haven't committed 100% to either path yet. Applying to both seems like a lot of money and effort.
My suggestion? Consider a dual PhD/DDS (or DMD) program. My state school offers a dual PhD/DDS program (disciplines include: Microbiology, Pharmacology, Physiology, Anatomy/Cell Biology, Biochemistry, or Genetics) and will waiver your tuition (+ includes a stipend for graduate school years) upon completion. Many other schools offer similar programs as well. Note that these programs usually take 6-8 years to be completed.

Best of luck~

I thought about doing a dmd/phd program. However, certain things cross my mind when I think about this. I like doing (chemistry) research, not biology research. I loathe biology with every fiber of my being because all I see it as is a ton of memorization that leads to nowhere. DMD/phd programs primarily involve bio related research which is not my thing, at all. The dental profession seems enjoyable, it is a chill occupation, good income, I love the atmosphere, love working with people, and love working with my hands. However, it is a bio focused field which concerns me (bio is my weakness). This potentially makes dentistry a difficult route for me one in which i may not succeed in because of what I need to study to get there. Not only this, but it also involves business to some degree which I also know absolutely nothing about. I want to be an orthodontist, which is bio on steroids which is just more concern for me.

When I think about dmd/phd, it seems like something inhumane to do (spending another 8-ish years after undergrad? that's crazy!). My goal is to become a dentist/orthodontist. I feel that if I go the phd/dmd route, I'll only end of being a dentist, which I could have done in a shorter amount of years with a dmd. Don't get me wrong, the stipend (even though it aint much) is nice, and the idea of a dual degree is in the back of my head, it's just that I am confused.

 

[luisfigo]

ASAP, it shows you're eager to become a dentist. I updated a couple schools with my unofficial scores via email, rather than wait for AADSAS. For some folks a later application still works but if you want to be an early interview, early acceptance, you increase your odds by submitting early. A later application likely means later interview dates and you're watching while everyone celebrates december 1st.

 

[Alcancia]

Yes!

Get everything submitted as close to June 1st as possible. Mail your official transcripts immediately! AADSAS has to review your transcripts and verify that all of your grades are accurate (this is the "verification" process everyone is mentioning.) Any discrepancy, even just a misspelled course name, will add weeks to the process. Your DAT scores may beat out the verification process even without discrepancies, but definitely will if there's a mistake in your course work section.

The only problem with applying before the DAT is that you won't know your score. So be honest with your strengths and weaknesses and select your schools wisely. With an awesome GPA and ECs, you have more wiggle room if you don't do as expected on the DAT. If you're banking on a killer DAT to stay competitive, consider adding more schools to your application and look at schools with more lenient acceptance stats.

 

[StudentDentistsRock]

ASAP, it shows you're eager to become a dentist. I updated a couple schools with my unofficial scores via email, rather than wait for AADSAS. For some folks a later application still works but if you want to be an early interview, early acceptance, you increase your odds by submitting early. A later application likely means later interview dates and you're watching while everyone celebrates december 1st.

I don't know how updating them with my DAT scores via email works. I thought I would be able to reopen my AADSAS application and update it with my scores. Is email updating faster? If so, how? And will updating the scores through email make a difference? I am assuming they want the official scores.

Yes!

Get everything submitted as close to June 1st as possible. Mail your official transcripts immediately! AADSAS has to review your transcripts and verify that all of your grades are accurate (this is the "verification" process everyone is mentioning.) Any discrepancy, even just a misspelled course name, will add weeks to the process. Your DAT scores may beat out the verification process even without discrepancies, but definitely will if there's a mistake in your course work section.

The only problem with applying before the DAT is that you won't know your score. So be honest with your strengths and weaknesses and select your schools wisely. With an awesome GPA and ECs, you have more wiggle room if you don't do as expected on the DAT. If you're banking on a killer DAT to stay competitive, consider adding more schools to your application and look at schools with more lenient acceptance stats.

I have my ps, ECs, all ready to go. My university office is holding onto my LORs as well. Do I have to ask my university to send in my transcripts and LORs or is this some sort of automated process? I. e: should I let offices at my school ahead of time to send in my stuff June 1st or something like that?

 

[Typical Average Student]

I don't know how updating them with my DAT scores via email works. I thought I would be able to reopen my AADSAS application and update it with my scores. Is email updating faster? If so, how? And will updating the scores through email make a difference? I am assuming they want the official scores.


I have my ps, ECs, all ready to go. My university office is holding onto my LORs as well. Do I have to ask my university to send in my transcripts and LORs or is this some sort of automated process? I. e: should I let offices at my school ahead of time to send in my stuff June 1st or something like that?

You will need to ask your university to send out your LORs if it's a committee letter. If it's a self-upload, then you will need the LOR writer to scan it and send it through ePortfolio. As for your transcript, when you open the application portal on June 1st, there's a button on there that opens a unique application form that has a barcode with your AADSAS, you will send that in with your transcript physically to the AADSAS Transcript processing center, just tell your university office that you need this form to be sent in with it and they should know what to do.

 

[StudentDentistsRock]

You will need to ask your university to send out your LORs if it's a committee letter. If it's a self-upload, then you will need the LOR writer to scan it and send it through ePortfolio. As for your transcript, when you open the application portal on June 1st, there's a button on there that opens a unique application form that has a barcode with your AADSAS, you will send that in with your transcript physically to the AADSAS Transcript processing center, just tell your university office that you need this form to be sent in with it and they should know what to do.

Thanks. I just remembered I'll be applying for the fee application assistance program and will thus probably need to wait a week before application submission 🙁 so maybe before June 10

 

[Alcancia]

You will need to ask your university to send out your LORs if it's a committee letter. If it's a self-upload, then you will need the LOR writer to scan it and send it through ePortfolio. As for your transcript, when you open the application portal on June 1st, there's a button on there that opens a unique application form that has a barcode with your AADSAS, you will send that in with your transcript physically to the AADSAS Transcript processing center, just tell your university office that you need this form to be sent in with it and they should know what to do.

Just to add to this:

For my LOE, I just had to add my pre-dent advisor as an evaluator. He then submitted all LOE and a committee letter together as one packet. You need to ask whoever is holding your letters what you need to do, but something similar would be my guess.

Also, both universities I attended have online transcript ordering services. The option to attach a document didn't show up until almost the end of the process of ordering transcripts. But that's what you'll have to do, download the AADSAS transcript page and then attach it to your transcript order. I'm sure the Registrar's Office could take a hard copy as well, if that's easier. I tend not to trust people with easily lost or forgotten items though, so I liked that I could attach it online.

Even if it takes a week or two to submit your application, I would get those transcripts sent on June 1st.

 

[Faefly]

Just to add to this:

For my LOE, I just had to add my pre-dent advisor as an evaluator. He then submitted all LOE and a committee letter together as one packet. You need to ask whoever is holding your letters what you need to do, but something similar would be my guess.

Also, both universities I attended have online transcript ordering services. The option to attach a document didn't show up until almost the end of the process of ordering transcripts. But that's what you'll have to do, download the AADSAS transcript page and then attach it to your transcript order. I'm sure the Registrar's Office could take a hard copy as well, if that's easier. I tend not to trust people with easily lost or forgotten items though, so I liked that I could attach it online.

Even if it takes a week or two to submit your application, I would get those transcripts sent on June 1st.

I have a question what LOE stands for
I know LOR, is letter of recommendation
but LOE, is it a letter of evaluation?
do we still need it if we have LOR? from where should I get it?

 

[Typical Average Student]

I have a question what LOE stands for
I know LOR, is letter of recommendation
but LOE, is it a letter of evaluation?
do we still need it if we have LOR? from where should I get it?

LOR = LOE, same thang

 

[Faefly]

LOR = LOE, same thang

Thank you so much for the help.

 

[smile matters]

Are there any specific requirements to an LOR? Does it have to be in a certain format or have something specific for it go through? Also, I asked my LORs to submit the letters to interfolio but also save them in their files just in case I may need them later. Since they have it saved would it be better for them to upload it to AADSAS directly instead of using the interfolio since it costs money?

 

[nowaysurvey]

I thought about doing a dmd/phd program. However, certain things cross my mind when I think about this. I like doing (chemistry) research, not biology research. I loathe biology with every fiber of my being because all I see it as is a ton of memorization that leads to nowhere. DMD/phd programs primarily involve bio related research which is not my thing, at all. The dental profession seems enjoyable, it is a chill occupation, good income, I love the atmosphere, love working with people, and love working with my hands. However, it is a bio focused field which concerns me (bio is my weakness). This potentially makes dentistry a difficult route for me one in which i may not succeed in because of what I need to study to get there. Not only this, but it also involves business to some degree which I also know absolutely nothing about. I want to be an orthodontist, which is bio on steroids which is just more concern for me.

When I think about dmd/phd, it seems like something inhumane to do (spending another 8-ish years after undergrad? that's crazy!). My goal is to become a dentist/orthodontist. I feel that if I go the phd/dmd route, I'll only end of being a dentist, which I could have done in a shorter amount of years with a dmd. Don't get me wrong, the stipend (even though it aint much) is nice, and the idea of a dual degree is in the back of my head, it's just that I am confused.

Let me ask you this, why are you still on the fence about this? Granted you probably won't have to make a decision for another several months, but it'll only become more problematic when you have to apply to two different programs and when you're fortunate to find out that you're accepted to both. What then? You can pick one or the other, or a take compromise of the two with a dual DDS/PhD program. In my opinion, two extra years is a small sacrifice if you truly love research and dentistry. A stipend, even though isn't much, is definitely nice, but what's even better? The chance to have your entire dental school tuition waived once you complete the program, thus you come out with minimal debt (may vary between schools, but my state school does this)! That's every dental student's dream. It really doesn't get much better than that. Oh and, I gave you an example from my state school. I don't know for sure, but I have a feeling other schools may offer dual dental/PhD programs with disciplines in chemistry (heck, UPenn offers a dual dental/law program and some schools offer D.O./DDS programs as well). You just got to do some research.

I get it though, six (or eight years at certain schools) may not sound fun. It could even be inhumane as you worded it, lol. Now you have to consider one or the other. I get it that you like aspects from both careers, but from your post I see that you despise biology. I don't know much about the curriculum of dental schools, but I'm pretty sure many are heavily biology based. If you truly have a problem with that, I suggest you lean towards graduate school. If not, I would consider dental school over graduate school any day. Even though you may love both careers, only one is truly financially and mentally rewarding. I know a girl who got a doctorate degree in neuroscience, only to switch to medicine later because research as she puts it is not rewarding at all. She's always complaining about having to file for grants that are becoming more and more limited as time goes by. Trust me, that's definitely something you don't want to be doing for the rest of your life. But hey, if you truly love research, kudos to you. I have the utmost respek for researchers and college professors for what they do.

Best of luck~

 

[Faefly]

OMG, how can I get into the dual program for dental/law for upenn,

 

[Faefly]

I thought about doing a dmd/phd program. However, certain things cross my mind when I think about this. I like doing (chemistry) research, not biology research. I loathe biology with every fiber of my being because all I see it as is a ton of memorization that leads to nowhere. DMD/phd programs primarily involve bio related research which is not my thing, at all. The dental profession seems enjoyable, it is a chill occupation, good income, I love the atmosphere, love working with people, and love working with my hands. However, it is a bio focused field which concerns me (bio is my weakness). This potentially makes dentistry a difficult route for me one in which i may not succeed in because of what I need to study to get there. Not only this, but it also involves business to some degree which I also know absolutely nothing about. I want to be an orthodontist, which is bio on steroids which is just more concern for me.

When I think about dmd/phd, it seems like something inhumane to do (spending another 8-ish years after undergrad? that's crazy!). My goal is to become a dentist/orthodontist. I feel that if I go the phd/dmd route, I'll only end of being a dentist, which I could have done in a shorter amount of years with a dmd. Don't get me wrong, the stipend (even though it aint much) is nice, and the idea of a dual degree is in the back of my head, it's just that I am confused.

Yeah I can feel your pain. Same boat.

 

[Faefly]

Let me ask you this, why are you still on the fence about this? Granted you probably won't have to make a decision for another several months, but it'll only become more problematic when you have to apply to two different programs and when you're fortunate to find out that you're accepted to both. What then? You can pick one or the other, or a take compromise of the two with a dual DDS/PhD program. In my opinion, two extra years is a small sacrifice if you truly love research and dentistry. A stipend, even though isn't much, is definitely nice, but what's even better? The chance to have your entire dental school tuition waived once you complete the program, thus you come out with minimal debt (may vary between schools, but my state school does this)! That's every dental student's dream. It really doesn't get much better than that. Oh and, I gave you an example from my state school. I don't know for sure, but I have a feeling other schools may offer dual dental/PhD programs with disciplines in chemistry (heck, UPenn offers a dual dental/law program and some schools offer D.O./DDS programs as well). You just got to do some research.

I get it though, six (or eight years at certain schools) may not sound fun. It could even be inhumane as you worded it, lol. Now you have to consider one or the other. I get it that you like aspects from both careers, but from your post I see that you despise biology. I don't know much about the curriculum of dental schools, but I'm pretty sure many are heavily biology based. If you truly have a problem with that, I suggest you lean towards graduate school. If not, I would consider dental school over graduate school any day. Even though you may love both careers, only one is truly financially and mentally rewarding. I know a girl who got a doctorate degree in neuroscience, only to switch to medicine later because research as she puts it is not rewarding at all. She's always complaining about having to file for grants that are becoming more and more limited as time goes by. Trust me, that's definitely something you don't want to be doing for the rest of your life. But hey, if you truly love research, kudos to you. I have the utmost respek for researchers and college professors for what they do.

Best of luck~

I think what you suggested to @placebooooo is a very solid advice.

 

[nowaysurvey]

OMG, how can I get into the dual program for dental/law for upenn,

Dual-Degree Options | DMD Program | Academic Programs & Admissions | Penn Dental School

I think what you suggested to @placebooooo is a very solid advice.

Thanks, I always try to help others to the best of my ability.

 

[StudentDentistsRock]

Let me ask you this, why are you still on the fence about this? Granted you probably won't have to make a decision for another several months, but it'll only become more problematic when you have to apply to two different programs and when you're fortunate to find out that you're accepted to both. What then? You can pick one or the other, or a take compromise of the two with a dual DDS/PhD program. In my opinion, two extra years is a small sacrifice if you truly love research and dentistry. A stipend, even though isn't much, is definitely nice, but what's even better? The chance to have your entire dental school tuition waived once you complete the program, thus you come out with minimal debt (may vary between schools, but my state school does this)! That's every dental student's dream. It really doesn't get much better than that. Oh and, I gave you an example from my state school. I don't know for sure, but I have a feeling other schools may offer dual dental/PhD programs with disciplines in chemistry (heck, UPenn offers a dual dental/law program and some schools offer D.O./DDS programs as well). You just got to do some research.

I get it though, six (or eight years at certain schools) may not sound fun. It could even be inhumane as you worded it, lol. Now you have to consider one or the other. I get it that you like aspects from both careers, but from your post I see that you despise biology. I don't know much about the curriculum of dental schools, but I'm pretty sure many are heavily biology based. If you truly have a problem with that, I suggest you lean towards graduate school. If not, I would consider dental school over graduate school any day. Even though you may love both careers, only one is truly financially and mentally rewarding. I know a girl who got a doctorate degree in neuroscience, only to switch to medicine later because research as she puts it is not rewarding at all. She's always complaining about having to file for grants that are becoming more and more limited as time goes by. Trust me, that's definitely something you don't want to be doing for the rest of your life. But hey, if you truly love research, kudos to you. I have the utmost respek for researchers and college professors for what they do.

Best of luck~

I'll come back to reply back to this later lol. Typing up a 30 page lab report that needed my attention for some time now 😉

To everyone else, thank you! I'll apply for the fee assistance program june 1st and submit my application as soon as I get approved for the waiver! (assuming I do).

 

[Alcancia]

LOR = LOE, same thang

Just to be clear though, on the AADSAS, you just submit names of "Evaluators" with their contact information. AADSAS then sends them an email that they respond to with your letter of recommendation/evaluation.

I know it's really nit-picky. I only make a point of it because when I was filling out my AADSAS, I had no idea what "Evaluators" were and about had a coronary thinking I was missing something for my application.